Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.
Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.
Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.
For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.
Not always. Liliana of the Veil and Geist of Saint Traft both raised in value after they rotated out of standard. If it sees a LOT of play outside of standard, then of course the card is going to raise after it is no longer printed. It's a case by case scenario.
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And I bought it at $12 when it was in standard. Case and point?
My point is that there are some cards that see a lot of play in formats beyond standard and when they are no longer printed, the supply is cut off. I'm not saying it happens to every card, I'm saying you have to be knowledgeable as to where certain cards see play in order to buy at the right time.
Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.
Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.
Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.
Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?
Mutavault was an eternal staple prior to being reprinted in standard. It was already established in several modern/legacy/casual/EDH decks before it saw play in current standard. Restoration Angel was a brand new card. I see no way in which these two cards are comparable.
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I am so sorry that part of my example panned out differently than I experienced it. I'm not sure why you focus on nitpicking a specific example versus the general idea. You just stated that you agree it does occur to some cards. Why nitpick?
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There's a pretty significant difference between what happens to mythic prices post rotation and rare prices post rotation. Comparing Geist and Liliana to Mutavault is silly. Restoration Angel is a great comparison, on the other hand.
And I bought it at $12 when it was in standard. Case and point?
My point is that there are some cards that see a lot of play in formats beyond standard and when they are no longer printed, the supply is cut off. I'm not saying it happens to every card, I'm saying you have to be knowledgeable as to where certain cards see play in order to buy at the right time.
Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.
Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.
Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.
Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?
Mutavault was an eternal staple prior to being reprinted in standard. It was already established in several modern/legacy/casual/EDH decks before it saw play in current standard. Restoration Angel was a brand new card. I see no way in which these two cards are comparable.
They are playable because they are both cards that are playable in many formats and are/were in the majority of Standard decks. As Restoration Angel is much more playable outside of Standard than Mutavault and has been printed less, then doesn't it makes sense that Mutavault will go down in price permanently since demand for it is primarily from Standard?
Time will tell, I am saying it wont go below $30 after the initial dip after rotation.
Restoration Angel is played a ton in Modern yet it dropped a lot after rotation.
Resto is not comparable to mutavault. Like I said, time will tell. We will see in a few months, no sense in arguing about it.
For Standard cards that will see play in Modern, the best time to get them is right after rotation. They will no longer be in Standard, but there will still be supply because they were just printed in a Standard set. After a short period, the price will go back right up, often times even higher than what they were in Standard. So the best time to get Mutavault is right after rotation.
Not always. Liliana of the Veil and Geist of Saint Traft both raised in value after they rotated out of standard. If it sees a LOT of play outside of standard, then of course the card is going to raise after it is no longer printed. It's a case by case scenario.
This is not true, I picked up Liliana at 33 during rotation and geist at 21. I remember seeing Liliana it 45 and geist at 30 before everyone started selling out, Geist ended up dropping even lower after that, but I think that was due to TNN taking it's place in legacy and a drop in popularity in modern.
You are comparing a 4CMC creature card to a colorless manland. The colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4 CMC creature card. I am talking Legacy, EDH, Modern, cube. Yes they are in Standard right now and The price is comparably the same it was before the reprinting. Yes it dipped, I understand it dipped. It will dip again at rotation, but it will climb because a colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4CMC creature card.
Lets see what the price is after rotation, after it levels off when it starts to climb.
You are comparing a 4CMC creature card to a colorless manland. The colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4 CMC creature card. I am talking Legacy, EDH, Modern, cube. Yes they are in Standard right now and The price is comparably the same it was before the reprinting. Yes it dipped, I understand it dipped. It will dip again at rotation, but it will climb because a colorless manland will always be in more demand then a 4CMC creature card.
Lets see what the price is after rotation, after it levels off when it starts to climb.
Restoration Angel-Played in Modern Death and Taxes, WUR Midrange, Azorius Midrange, WUR Twin, and WUR Control.
Mutavault-Played in Modern Merfolk, UR Delver, and Faeries.
In terms of Modern demand, Restoration Angel is much more in demand. It is played in more decks and those decks are played in large amounts compared to Merfolk, Faeries, and UR Delver.
When I think about the path that Mutavault's price will take, I look at similar cards such as Thragtusk and Resto. Same rarity. Same ubiquity while in standard. Similar use outside of standard. I expect a similar price trajectory. Could be wrong but barring merfolk and UR with spellstutter I haven't seen much use of mutavault in modern decks. Probably wont hit the $2 thragtusk lows but the shape of the price over time graph will be a whole lot closer to him than say LotV in my opinion.
What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.
What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.
It was that high because it is a Legacy playable card that was printed in a small, underprinted set and never reprinted. Why wouldn't it go down now that so many more copies are in existence after it rotates out of Standard. It is not like it is a Modern staple.
What people are failing to realize, there are other formats that mutavault is played in. There was a reason mutavault was a $30-$40 card before the reprinting. Adding it its colorless bumps it up even more. Everyone comparing it to 4CMC and 5CMC cards does not understand what a comparable card is.
The comparison only extends as far as saying all three were recently printed in a standard legal set (large print run compared to say Morningtide) and have seen MUCH heavier play in standard than they do in modern.
A 5cmc value beater might have been amazing in standard but meh in modern because its too slow. A 2/2 changeling manland might be amazing in standard but meh in modern because there Is a dearth of competitive tribal decks and it doesn't make the cut as a 2/2 standing alone.
Not saying that mutavault doesn't have more potential than thragtusk. Just that at current demand outside of standard I can't see it holding its price. Not wishful thinking either. I don't play merfolk.
Well Theros block is a very bad modern block. Nothing in either set is going to see play in any format aside from Thoughtseize, Swan Song, Briamz, Spirit, and Thassa. If that, some of those see more legacy play than modern play. A very under powered set. It sucks.
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Well Theros block is a very bad modern block. Nothing in either set is going to see play in any format aside from Thoughtseize, Swan Song, Briamz, Spirit, and Thassa. If that, some of those see more legacy play than modern play. A very under powered set. It sucks.
You missed Master of Waves, Nykthos Shrine to Nyx, Courser of Kruphix, Temple of Deceit/Enlightenment, and Anger of the Gods. Heck, Anger of the Gods seems pretty huge in Modern right now. There's also Springleaf Drum--it's admittedly a reprint, but you counted Thoughtseize.
Theros block might not be as big as Innistrad block or Return to Ravnica block in terms of Modern/Legacy play, but there's still a fairly decent amount of staples in it.
Well Theros block is a very bad modern block. Nothing in either set is going to see play in any format aside from Thoughtseize, Swan Song, Briamz, Spirit, and Thassa. If that, some of those see more legacy play than modern play. A very under powered set. It sucks.
You are forgetting several Modern and Legacy playable cards (Courser of Kruphix, Destructive Revelry, Ashen Rider, Anger of the Gods, Master of Waves, Stormbreath Dragon) though your overall point is correct.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
As did the first 2 sets of Scars, the first 2 sets of Zendikar, the first 2 sets of Alara, the first 2 sets of Lorwyn, the first 2 sets of Time Spiral, the first 2 sets of Ravnica, the first 2 sets of Kamigawa, and the first 2 sets of Mirrodin. Theros (so far) has done worse than every other Modern-legal block ever made. And I doubt that it will get any better with JOU.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
To be fair, it is a good thing that they didn't give anything to BGx in Theros since it was apparently too good anyways (at least it would have ended the arguing over whether it was too good). Still, it has the least number of Modern playable cards of any fully Modern legal block, even if you only count the first 2 sets of each block. They could have given Modern something. Instead, the main thing that the Theros block did was make Merfolk a little better, weaken Pod, and give BGx another option to fall back on when DRS got banned.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
I guess it goes both ways, to make more Modern stuff but also make sure power levels aren't too high. In recent sets they have been making cards with high impact, and to be honest, they shake up the formats too much. Geist, Liliana, Snapcaster, Delver, Miracles, Deathrite, Abrupt Decay, these cards all have high impacts on the formats and shake them up quite a bit. They really should avoid printing a card like Deathrite which literally warps a format, they don't want to, and shouldn't.
I still do say that a set with few Modern cards in a set meant with Modern in mind feels like it's wrong. It feels like there should be more Modern cards. But I suppose Wizards has printed too many format warping cards to the point that we should be glad they at least haven't broken the format. Maybe the amount of splash we got from Theros is what sets should have on Modern.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
I guess it goes both ways, to make more Modern stuff but also make sure power levels aren't too high. In recent sets they have been making cards with high impact, and to be honest, they shake up the formats too much. Geist, Liliana, Snapcaster, Delver, Miracles, Deathrite, Abrupt Decay, these cards all have high impacts on the formats and shake them up quite a bit. They really should avoid printing a card like Deathrite which literally warps a format, they don't want to, and shouldn't.
I still do say that a set with few Modern cards in a set meant with Modern in mind feels like it's wrong. It feels like there should be more Modern cards. But I suppose Wizards has printed too many format warping cards to the point that we should be glad they at least haven't broken the format. Maybe the amount of splash we got from Theros is what sets should have on Modern.
It is much better to have a changing meta that is decided by new cards than a stale meta. Between the banned list announcements for Second Sunrise and DRS/Bitterblossom/Wild Nacatl, we had seen varying amounts of WUR Control, BGx, Melira Pod, Splinter Twin, Affinity, and RG Tron as the top decks. That was almost a whole year of the same basic metagame. It got boring and stale. If Wizards had continued the trend that it had been doing for years until it abruptly stopped in Dragon's Maze and then in Theros, we wouldn't be having this problem.
You guys do know Theros block was supposed to be designed with Modern in mind, right? The point was to have a higher number of Modern playable cards in it. They missed that mark though, and by a fairly good amount. Innistrad and RtR both had more cards.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
To be fair, it is a good thing that they didn't give anything to BGx in Theros since it was apparently too good anyways (at least it would have ended the arguing over whether it was too good). Still, it has the least number of Modern playable cards of any fully Modern legal block, even if you only count the first 2 sets of each block. They could have given Modern something. Instead, the main thing that the Theros block did was make Merfolk a little better, weaken Pod, and give BGx another option to fall back on when DRS got banned.
I mean I dunno if it would have broken those decks. It was a cool card. I think it has more potential in legacy, but I'm not on R&D.
Persephone
1BG
Legendary Enchantment Creature—Spirit
0/2
Lands are indestructible
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a land card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If you can't, sacrifice CARDNAME.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if CARDNAME is in your graveyard, you may sacrifice two lands. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Anyway yeah. I think most players (myself included) thought that designing with modern in mind meant sets would have larger impacts. I think wizards is focusing on not breaking anything.
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If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
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Not always. Liliana of the Veil and Geist of Saint Traft both raised in value after they rotated out of standard. If it sees a LOT of play outside of standard, then of course the card is going to raise after it is no longer printed. It's a case by case scenario.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Why aren't they comparable? Is it because Mutavault is even more playable in Standard while being less playable in Modern so it backs up my point?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
My point is that there are some cards that see a lot of play in formats beyond standard and when they are no longer printed, the supply is cut off. I'm not saying it happens to every card, I'm saying you have to be knowledgeable as to where certain cards see play in order to buy at the right time.
Mutavault was an eternal staple prior to being reprinted in standard. It was already established in several modern/legacy/casual/EDH decks before it saw play in current standard. Restoration Angel was a brand new card. I see no way in which these two cards are comparable.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
They are playable because they are both cards that are playable in many formats and are/were in the majority of Standard decks. As Restoration Angel is much more playable outside of Standard than Mutavault and has been printed less, then doesn't it makes sense that Mutavault will go down in price permanently since demand for it is primarily from Standard?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is not true, I picked up Liliana at 33 during rotation and geist at 21. I remember seeing Liliana it 45 and geist at 30 before everyone started selling out, Geist ended up dropping even lower after that, but I think that was due to TNN taking it's place in legacy and a drop in popularity in modern.
Lets see what the price is after rotation, after it levels off when it starts to climb.
Restoration Angel-Played in Modern Death and Taxes, WUR Midrange, Azorius Midrange, WUR Twin, and WUR Control.
Mutavault-Played in Modern Merfolk, UR Delver, and Faeries.
In terms of Modern demand, Restoration Angel is much more in demand. It is played in more decks and those decks are played in large amounts compared to Merfolk, Faeries, and UR Delver.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It was that high because it is a Legacy playable card that was printed in a small, underprinted set and never reprinted. Why wouldn't it go down now that so many more copies are in existence after it rotates out of Standard. It is not like it is a Modern staple.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The comparison only extends as far as saying all three were recently printed in a standard legal set (large print run compared to say Morningtide) and have seen MUCH heavier play in standard than they do in modern.
A 5cmc value beater might have been amazing in standard but meh in modern because its too slow. A 2/2 changeling manland might be amazing in standard but meh in modern because there Is a dearth of competitive tribal decks and it doesn't make the cut as a 2/2 standing alone.
Not saying that mutavault doesn't have more potential than thragtusk. Just that at current demand outside of standard I can't see it holding its price. Not wishful thinking either. I don't play merfolk.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
You missed Master of Waves, Nykthos Shrine to Nyx, Courser of Kruphix, Temple of Deceit/Enlightenment, and Anger of the Gods. Heck, Anger of the Gods seems pretty huge in Modern right now. There's also Springleaf Drum--it's admittedly a reprint, but you counted Thoughtseize.
Theros block might not be as big as Innistrad block or Return to Ravnica block in terms of Modern/Legacy play, but there's still a fairly decent amount of staples in it.
You are forgetting several Modern and Legacy playable cards (Courser of Kruphix, Destructive Revelry, Ashen Rider, Anger of the Gods, Master of Waves, Stormbreath Dragon) though your overall point is correct.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
As did the first 2 sets of Scars, the first 2 sets of Zendikar, the first 2 sets of Alara, the first 2 sets of Lorwyn, the first 2 sets of Time Spiral, the first 2 sets of Ravnica, the first 2 sets of Kamigawa, and the first 2 sets of Mirrodin. Theros (so far) has done worse than every other Modern-legal block ever made. And I doubt that it will get any better with JOU.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That's not exactly true. Designing with modern in mind doesn't mean it's going to have a high number of modern playable cards. What it means is that it's not going to break the format or massively shift it in an unhealthy way.
There was a story on the mothership about a Persephone inspired card that was going to be BG and deal with lands in the graveyard. It was supposed to be in BNG but it got axed from the set because they were scared it would power up the bgX decks in modern too much. That's what designed with modern in mind means.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
To be fair, it is a good thing that they didn't give anything to BGx in Theros since it was apparently too good anyways (at least it would have ended the arguing over whether it was too good). Still, it has the least number of Modern playable cards of any fully Modern legal block, even if you only count the first 2 sets of each block. They could have given Modern something. Instead, the main thing that the Theros block did was make Merfolk a little better, weaken Pod, and give BGx another option to fall back on when DRS got banned.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I guess it goes both ways, to make more Modern stuff but also make sure power levels aren't too high. In recent sets they have been making cards with high impact, and to be honest, they shake up the formats too much. Geist, Liliana, Snapcaster, Delver, Miracles, Deathrite, Abrupt Decay, these cards all have high impacts on the formats and shake them up quite a bit. They really should avoid printing a card like Deathrite which literally warps a format, they don't want to, and shouldn't.
I still do say that a set with few Modern cards in a set meant with Modern in mind feels like it's wrong. It feels like there should be more Modern cards. But I suppose Wizards has printed too many format warping cards to the point that we should be glad they at least haven't broken the format. Maybe the amount of splash we got from Theros is what sets should have on Modern.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
It is much better to have a changing meta that is decided by new cards than a stale meta. Between the banned list announcements for Second Sunrise and DRS/Bitterblossom/Wild Nacatl, we had seen varying amounts of WUR Control, BGx, Melira Pod, Splinter Twin, Affinity, and RG Tron as the top decks. That was almost a whole year of the same basic metagame. It got boring and stale. If Wizards had continued the trend that it had been doing for years until it abruptly stopped in Dragon's Maze and then in Theros, we wouldn't be having this problem.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I mean I dunno if it would have broken those decks. It was a cool card. I think it has more potential in legacy, but I'm not on R&D.
Persephone
1BG
Legendary Enchantment Creature—Spirit
0/2
Lands are indestructible
At the beginning of your upkeep, return a land card from your graveyard to the battlefield. If you can't, sacrifice CARDNAME.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if CARDNAME is in your graveyard, you may sacrifice two lands. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Source https://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/283
Anyway yeah. I think most players (myself included) thought that designing with modern in mind meant sets would have larger impacts. I think wizards is focusing on not breaking anything.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash