@Lilletblanc :
if you have 4 trophy, 4 field of ruin MD and fulminator mage, Tron is a favourable match-up.
Infect is a good match-up too.
I think add one more thoughtseize Md can be a nice thing here.
Round 1 vs. Skred. I make him discard some of his stuff. I play a Liliana of the Veil and he has the choice to double Bolt it or Goyf. He does Goyf and loses in the long run. I eventually ultimate Lily, despite him having 2 Thopter tokens from Pia and Kiran for the longest time. He chose not to attack Lily a bunch of times and eventually he wasn't able to anymore, as I used Fatal Push X 2 to kill the tokens so I wouldn't discard them to Lily. In next game, I lose to my creatures getting burned, then Chandra Torch and Koth abusing me. In the last game, I get to parity, despite a mulligan to 6 again. But he draws Koth, Chandra Torch, Goblin Rabblemaster, and Chandra Torch on 4 consecutive turns while Dark Confidant and draw steps got 5 lands and a Scavenging Ooze. I probably should have saved the Lily in my hand in this game because I had to discard a Tireless Tracker and a Dark Confidant earlier because I couldn't find lands, then I flooded out with lands later on. I was trying to get it above a potential Stormbreath Dragon attack from hand, but that wasn't smart. In these super long games, I drew 0 Assassin's Trophy. One of those could have changed a LOT. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Amulet Breach. He gets double Amulet right away, but 3 Assassin's Trophy kept him from casting 2 Prime Time, 1 Emrakul, and 2 Through the Breach from hand. In the next 2 games, it is similar to game 1, but I have no Assassin's Trophy. In game 2, he has 2 Forest and a Coalition Relic with Amulet in play. A Karoo lets him cast Prime Time from his hand. I had already Fulminator Maged another land, but when I draw Thoughtseize for the turn, I go with Tireless Tracker, Clue, then Thoughtseize, hoping to fade a draw step by him. He had drawn a 3rd Prime Time and I can only take 1, so I lose after that. I could have played my 2nd Fulminator Mage and waited for him to draw another Karoo after the next draw step of Karoo gets blown up. I was planning on playing the Fulminator Mage after that, but I was hoping he didn't draw a card that could punish me and THEN the Karoo next turn. Sad times and definitely a punt. In the last game, I kept on Swamp, Field of Ruin, and 5 cards. Never drew a land and got crushed by the same hands as games 1 and 2. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Hardened Scales. I blow up some stuff and ride a Kalitas to victory. It's a very good card against this deck. In the next game, I kept on Damnation and drew another one, saving me in time and he found nothing in his last 3 draw steps. It feels good to draw well finally. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Lantern. There was actually a lot of play to this one, but Tracker, discard, Maelstrom Pulse, Dark Confidant, and Lily ultimate made this one hard for him. The next one is closer, but on turn 7, I am able to swing with a huge Tracker, Bob, and Goyf after I end step Assassin's Trophy a Bridge, then cracked clues, untap and Trophy again, swing for 17 after cracking clues and IoK my own Lily (P Needle on it) to make Goyf a 7/8. Got there. 2-0.
I finish 2-2. It was pretty rough. Outside of possible mulligan mistakes, I made 1 mistake that I really, really know of.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
@Lilletblanc :
if you have 4 trophy, 4 field of ruin MD and fulminator mage, Tron is a favourable match-up.
Infect is a good match-up too.
I think add one more thoughtseize Md can be a nice thing here.
yeah i just panicked it seemes the stock build is enough to beat tron decks.. on the other hand for me dredge is a hard matchup if you don't have the right cards .. is surgical really important and nihil? im planning to just run 4 leyline of the void
yeah i just panicked it seemes the stock build is enough to beat tron decks.. on the other hand for me dredge is a hard matchup if you don't have the right cards .. is surgical really important and nihil? im planning to just run 4 leyline of the void
I prefear to have discard then graveyard and prepare a small setup than mulligan more leylines, put it in play and nature's claim it t1 for loose.
Dredge is really betable if you discard then goyf and they slow dredge up to they find a looting and classic graveyard hate is better in this case imo.
But both choices are probably correct against dredge, surgical will miss you against phoenix, tron and combo decks.
yeah i just panicked it seemes the stock build is enough to beat tron decks.. on the other hand for me dredge is a hard matchup if you don't have the right cards .. is surgical really important and nihil? im planning to just run 4 leyline of the void
I prefear to have discard then graveyard and prepare a small setup than mulligan more leylines, put it in play and nature's claim it t1 for loose.
Dredge is really betable if you discard then goyf and they slow dredge up to they find a looting and classic graveyard hate is better in this case imo.
But both choices are probably correct against dredge, surgical will miss you against phoenix, tron and combo decks.
hmm that makes sense .. btw this is a good spoiler.. do you guys think this will have a slot on the deck?
it a diabolic edict on steroids
hmm that makes sense .. btw this is a good spoiler.. do you guys think this will have a slot on the deck?
it a diabolic edict on steroids
Maybe not an auto-include, maybe not even main-deck, but certainly playable. I wouldn't quibble with anyone playing it main-deck, but it seems better suited for the side-board. Unless, of course, one's LGS is over-run with Bogles.
Storrev's effect is certainly powerful, but the lack of immediate value and need to actually deal damage is probably going to hold...is it a her?...back. Notably, the 5/4 body does not line up very well against Tarmogoyf in the average B/Gx mirror, and is also typically outclassed by Death's Shadow and only trades with Angler for no value. In general I'm just not sure that this is really better than the options we already have available for grindy matchups.
Liliana's Triumph seems fantastic and main-deckable to me. Given that a number of lists already play 5 Lilianas, I think your chances of getting the discard clause are pretty decent, and its general synergy with both of our Lilanas is very strong. Last Hope clears out small creatures and makes the edict more likely to tag something big. LotV is even better as she forces your opponent to play out their hand and be more vulnerable to being hit with discard in their draw step. This also provides an instant speed answer to Primeval Titan that doesn't ramp, and can be played in response to Khalni Garden or before Amulet Titan can even tutor it. The additional hand pressure is also super relevant against decks like Izzet Phoenix and GDS, and I think in general the ability to curve something like LotV -> Liliana's Triump + 2-drop is incredibly powerful. I'm extremely high on this card in the current builds of BG right now.
I agree on Triumph, really excited to test them out. Now the hard part is figuring out how many copies and what to cut for our instant speed edict.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
My gut says 1-2, basically replacing any main deck copies of Collective Brutality. It really is great how diverse the 2 CMC removal spot has become, between Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay, Collective Brutality, and Triumph you can really round out your removal nicely.
I'd prolly move/cut a copy of Trophy to SB and cut my MB Brutality for two. Trophy is nice but ramping opponents with an untapped land is not.
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Yeah, Trophy was way more exciting in theory. My first games with it ever I felt more like, "ewww, I didn't like doing that" more than "yeah, it kills everything!"
2x feels like a nice number in most decks that want it, 3 is bearable. 4x for any deck feels awful.
I'm sad the meta calls for playing 2x main deck baubles being very reasonable in this meta.
I think triumph is just not what we want at all, it's a small upgrade of devour flesh and the bonus only matters in grindy match-ups and devour flesh was never an option in any BGX since years.
4 trophy is the easiest way to have a good match-up against tron and amulet titan, any other removals except collective brutality don't help against aggro decks but i can see nihil spellbomb instead of some trophy even if it's not a removal. Obviously it depends on against what you want to win, imo it's the reverse for me, i am always "it does always something relevant event with a drawback sometimes".
Anyone have any advice on how I could build a manabase with 3 treetop villages and 3 field of ruins (in a 24 land build)? I really wanted to do it and got inspired by Gerry T's deck that he posted a couple weeks ago with this mana:
The 2 twilight mires help get double black if it happens to be your only black source (since this manabase is light on black lands), but I worry it could be too greedy with only 16 black-producing lands. Thoughts?
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Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
Anyone have any advice on how I could build a manabase with 3 treetop villages and 3 field of ruins (in a 24 land build)? I really wanted to do it and got inspired by Gerry T's deck that he posted a couple weeks ago with this mana:
The 2 twilight mires help get double black if it happens to be your only black source (since this manabase is light on black lands), but I worry it could be too greedy with only 16 black-producing lands. Thoughts?
16 is probably enough to reliably have B on turn-one, if I recall corectly, but I don't recall how many are called for to get double-B on turn three, but I'm sure someone will chime in.
Fetches might be better than Twilight Mires in terms of reliability but I don't mind a copy or two of Mire and there aren't that many cards in this list that don't play nicely with them, namely the Fields. The second Forest is questionable in my mind, but it may be necessary in your build.
I think you can't validate enough the manabase rules with too much treetop/twilight mire/field of ruin.
Reid Duke's manabase with 4 treetop and 0 field of ruin is probably the safest way with a lot of treetop but i can't play less than 4 fields of ruin now ><.
I am pretty confident that you should be able to construct a solid BG-manabase with 3 Treetop Village and Field of Ruin. I run 23 lands in my BW-midrange/Dead Guy Ale list that I have been playing for about 3 years now. I do run Ghost Quarter over Field of Ruin, as i value the fact Ghost Quarter allows you to interact before turn 3. You can target your own lands with Ghost Quarter, this can both fix your mana and allows you to hold up a fatal push with revolt by leaving an untapped Ghost Quarter, this has come up multiple times. My current list plays 23 lands with 15 white and 17 black sources, with 3 basic plains as I want to reliable cast a Baneslayer Angel though a Blood Moon.
I just acquired my goyfs, and I am going to play this list for the next couple of weeks. I am not 100% sure about the manabase and swaping one Treetop Village for a Hissing Quagmire might be correct, but I like the fact that Treetop Village attacks for 1 extra damage and is also cheaper to activate.
If you want to build a consistent manabase with 3 Treetops and 3 FoR, it basically means your complete other 18 lands need to be black producing lands in order to support turn 3 Liliana.
You could skimp on it a little and play 17 lands instead, which some people do. In that case my recommendation would be:
if you have 4 trophy, 4 field of ruin MD and fulminator mage, Tron is a favourable match-up.
Infect is a good match-up too.
I think add one more thoughtseize Md can be a nice thing here.
"Penguin is Evil ?"
Round 1 vs. Skred. I make him discard some of his stuff. I play a Liliana of the Veil and he has the choice to double Bolt it or Goyf. He does Goyf and loses in the long run. I eventually ultimate Lily, despite him having 2 Thopter tokens from Pia and Kiran for the longest time. He chose not to attack Lily a bunch of times and eventually he wasn't able to anymore, as I used Fatal Push X 2 to kill the tokens so I wouldn't discard them to Lily. In next game, I lose to my creatures getting burned, then Chandra Torch and Koth abusing me. In the last game, I get to parity, despite a mulligan to 6 again. But he draws Koth, Chandra Torch, Goblin Rabblemaster, and Chandra Torch on 4 consecutive turns while Dark Confidant and draw steps got 5 lands and a Scavenging Ooze. I probably should have saved the Lily in my hand in this game because I had to discard a Tireless Tracker and a Dark Confidant earlier because I couldn't find lands, then I flooded out with lands later on. I was trying to get it above a potential Stormbreath Dragon attack from hand, but that wasn't smart. In these super long games, I drew 0 Assassin's Trophy. One of those could have changed a LOT. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Amulet Breach. He gets double Amulet right away, but 3 Assassin's Trophy kept him from casting 2 Prime Time, 1 Emrakul, and 2 Through the Breach from hand. In the next 2 games, it is similar to game 1, but I have no Assassin's Trophy. In game 2, he has 2 Forest and a Coalition Relic with Amulet in play. A Karoo lets him cast Prime Time from his hand. I had already Fulminator Maged another land, but when I draw Thoughtseize for the turn, I go with Tireless Tracker, Clue, then Thoughtseize, hoping to fade a draw step by him. He had drawn a 3rd Prime Time and I can only take 1, so I lose after that. I could have played my 2nd Fulminator Mage and waited for him to draw another Karoo after the next draw step of Karoo gets blown up. I was planning on playing the Fulminator Mage after that, but I was hoping he didn't draw a card that could punish me and THEN the Karoo next turn. Sad times and definitely a punt. In the last game, I kept on Swamp, Field of Ruin, and 5 cards. Never drew a land and got crushed by the same hands as games 1 and 2. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Hardened Scales. I blow up some stuff and ride a Kalitas to victory. It's a very good card against this deck. In the next game, I kept on Damnation and drew another one, saving me in time and he found nothing in his last 3 draw steps. It feels good to draw well finally. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Lantern. There was actually a lot of play to this one, but Tracker, discard, Maelstrom Pulse, Dark Confidant, and Lily ultimate made this one hard for him. The next one is closer, but on turn 7, I am able to swing with a huge Tracker, Bob, and Goyf after I end step Assassin's Trophy a Bridge, then cracked clues, untap and Trophy again, swing for 17 after cracking clues and IoK my own Lily (P Needle on it) to make Goyf a 7/8. Got there. 2-0.
I finish 2-2. It was pretty rough. Outside of possible mulligan mistakes, I made 1 mistake that I really, really know of.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)yeah i just panicked it seemes the stock build is enough to beat tron decks.. on the other hand for me dredge is a hard matchup if you don't have the right cards .. is surgical really important and nihil? im planning to just run 4 leyline of the void
I prefear to have discard then graveyard and prepare a small setup than mulligan more leylines, put it in play and nature's claim it t1 for loose.
Dredge is really betable if you discard then goyf and they slow dredge up to they find a looting and classic graveyard hate is better in this case imo.
But both choices are probably correct against dredge, surgical will miss you against phoenix, tron and combo decks.
"Penguin is Evil ?"
hmm that makes sense .. btw this is a good spoiler.. do you guys think this will have a slot on the deck?
it a diabolic edict on steroids
Maybe not an auto-include, maybe not even main-deck, but certainly playable. I wouldn't quibble with anyone playing it main-deck, but it seems better suited for the side-board. Unless, of course, one's LGS is over-run with Bogles.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Liliana's Triumph seems fantastic and main-deckable to me. Given that a number of lists already play 5 Lilianas, I think your chances of getting the discard clause are pretty decent, and its general synergy with both of our Lilanas is very strong. Last Hope clears out small creatures and makes the edict more likely to tag something big. LotV is even better as she forces your opponent to play out their hand and be more vulnerable to being hit with discard in their draw step. This also provides an instant speed answer to Primeval Titan that doesn't ramp, and can be played in response to Khalni Garden or before Amulet Titan can even tutor it. The additional hand pressure is also super relevant against decks like Izzet Phoenix and GDS, and I think in general the ability to curve something like LotV -> Liliana's Triump + 2-drop is incredibly powerful. I'm extremely high on this card in the current builds of BG right now.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Personally, I don't love the rock decks that use 4x copies of Trophy.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
2x feels like a nice number in most decks that want it, 3 is bearable. 4x for any deck feels awful.
I'm sad the meta calls for playing 2x main deck baubles being very reasonable in this meta.
4 trophy is the easiest way to have a good match-up against tron and amulet titan, any other removals except collective brutality don't help against aggro decks but i can see nihil spellbomb instead of some trophy even if it's not a removal. Obviously it depends on against what you want to win, imo it's the reverse for me, i am always "it does always something relevant event with a drawback sometimes".
"Penguin is Evil ?"
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Twilight Mire
4 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Treetop Village
3 Field of Ruin
The 2 twilight mires help get double black if it happens to be your only black source (since this manabase is light on black lands), but I worry it could be too greedy with only 16 black-producing lands. Thoughts?
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
Fetches might be better than Twilight Mires in terms of reliability but I don't mind a copy or two of Mire and there aren't that many cards in this list that don't play nicely with them, namely the Fields. The second Forest is questionable in my mind, but it may be necessary in your build.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Reid Duke's manabase with 4 treetop and 0 field of ruin is probably the safest way with a lot of treetop but i can't play less than 4 fields of ruin now ><.
"Penguin is Evil ?"
In my experience you want one black sources by turn one for Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize and two black sources by turn three for Liliana of the Veil. While Twilight Mire might help you cast Liliana of the Veil by turn three you it doesn't help you with your turn one plays, for this reason I would exchange it for an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and a basic Swamp, and probably only run one basic Forest.
Here is my BW list if you are interested, the main deck is pretty solid but I usually swap the sideboard around a bit.
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Shambling Vent
2 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Plains
4 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
Creatures: 8
4 Dark Confidant
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Baneslayer angel
4 Bitterblossom
1 Banishing Light
Planeswalkers: 6
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
Spells: 18
4 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Celestial Purge
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Wrath of God
3 Damping Sphere
2 Extirpate
1 Languish
I just acquired my goyfs, and I am going to play this list for the next couple of weeks. I am not 100% sure about the manabase and swaping one Treetop Village for a Hissing Quagmire might be correct, but I like the fact that Treetop Village attacks for 1 extra damage and is also cheaper to activate.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Spells 22
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Go for the Throat
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Treetop Village
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
2 Damping Sphere
1 Languish
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Raking Canopy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Pithing Needle
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I think this can be good in a Traverse list. You hope to connect once to get something back ocne you have sett up a grind situasion.
You could skimp on it a little and play 17 lands instead, which some people do. In that case my recommendation would be:
1 Marsh Flats
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Treetop Village
3 Field of Ruin
1 Twilight Mire
1 Hissing Quagmire