Recently built this deck to get into Modern, just a few games under my belt so far but I'm really enjoying it, and this guide has been super helpful.
I can't decide if Smiting Helix is just outstanding Limited value or if it might actually be playable here. It would seem to enable similar play patterns as Lingering Souls--expensive front side that can sometimes be played for value plus an efficient flashback cost which makes it relatively painless to discard. But it's possible that's not as valuable on Bolts #5-6 as it is on Souls?
I have mixed feelings about Smithing Helix, in theory it seems a good card but when I think about the best case scenario is mediocre: the normal cost is way too high for our deck so we have to pitch the card to Looting in order to play it at a cheap cost, but at that time isn't just better playing Lightning Helix? Don't know, maybe I just cannot see the reason to play it instead of the old Helix.
I've tried Mardu Pyromancer Midrange on Cockatrice for a while, and I'm wondering this: why did Discovery // Dispersal never catch on? Discovery is close to a Strategic Planning that's castable with black mana only, this deck still needs the sorcery/instant density and would like the consistency, and it's never felt like too much of a tempo sink to me (partially thanks to Young Pyromancer). Besides, I've always felt that the Faithless Looting-only version wasn't quite consistent enough.
I'd definitely try Seasoned Pyromancer for additional filtering before a 2-mana cantrip.
Smiting Helix has three outcomes as I see it.
1: default mode. It's an early "free" discard which powers Reveler and Seasoned Pyromancer and turns into a (sorcery-speed) Lightning Helix once you have white mana available.
2: card advantage mode. As a late-game topdeck in grindier matchups, it's feasible to cast the front side, at which point you're basically spending two mana to buy yourself an extra Lightning Helix.
3: fail state. You don't make it to four lands/don't have discard available and now the card is dead in hand.
Whether it's playable depends on whether the value of case 2 is worth the risk/likelihood of case 3, and whether the deck wants the bolts/lifegain. The playability of Lingering Souls suggests that the risk analysis works out, if you consider requiring a splash color vs. a fourth land to be roughly equivalent. I'll probably try it a as a 1-of.
I’m surprised nobody is talking about Shatter Assumption. Seems like a great card again Tron and eldrazi.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
I'm not sure if Smiting Helix is good enough. The difference of playing this instead of Lightning Helix is the fact that Smiting Helix empowers our discard outlets. Faithless Lootings, Seasoned Pyromancers and other discard outlets of ours become virtual card advantage if we pinch this card. That wouldn't happen if we discarded a Lightning Helix this way. It also gives us the option of a hard cast from hand, to potential 6 life and 2 removals or up to 6 damage.
The problem with it is the high cost to cast from hand. Lingering Souls is not really impressive when cast from hand, but it is decent. 2W for 2 Flying Spirits is a fair deal, although not really impressive. Smiting Helix on the other hand seems really clunky to cast from hand. 3B for a Sorcery Speed Lightning Helix is really bad.
So... not sure. IMO it has potential. The likely addition of Seasoned Pyromancers to the deck also make the card better. But still, it seems to me as a card with a pretty bad floor, which is not great.
As someone who's tried 4-cmc planeswalkers in Mardu Pyromancer and found they were too expensive in this deck, I'm not a fan of Smiting Helix. I'm doubtful the flashback is good enough to earn it a slot when 8 discard outlets (I don't think this deck will go to 9+ creature cards) aren't enough to reliably discard Lingering Souls from my testing.
This is my first try on a mardu pyromancer list for a while. Feedback is very welcome.
I like it because it's similar to what I'm gonna test when MH will come out, but personally I'll replace the Angrath's Rampage with the old 1/1 split of Dreadbore and Terminate because most of the time I prefer targeting rather than playing around a hexproof creature, especially when you already have the "edict" effect in form of 2 LotV.
Any comments on the new Chandra? Seems really good for three mana. Flashback kolaghan’s Command is a thing. It’s a mini win con by itself and the -2 can be anything. Removal, discard etc.
Fairly sure it's unplayable. Look at it this way:
[+1]: do nothing.
[+0]: deal 2-X damage to target opponent, where X is the number of creatures they control with toughness 2 or higher.
[-2]: flashback a card with CMC equal to your remaining mana after casting Chandra.
The only way you're guaranteed any kind of reasonable value is if you minus the turn you cast it, as any opposing creatures or even a simple bolt will leave her dead or unable to minus. But that requires having 4+ (preferably 5 or 6) lands in play which is absolutely not something you can count on with this deck. If you want to flashback 1-CMC spells, run Dreadhorde Arcanist instead.
Fairly sure it's unplayable. Look at it this way:
[+1]: do nothing.
[+0]: deal 2-X damage to target opponent, where X is the number of creatures they control with toughness 2 or higher.
[-2]: flashback a card with CMC equal to your remaining mana after casting Chandra.
The only way you're guaranteed any kind of reasonable value is if you minus the turn you cast it, as any opposing creatures or even a simple bolt will leave her dead or unable to minus. But that requires having 4+ (preferably 5 or 6) lands in play which is absolutely not something you can count on with this deck. If you want to flashback 1-CMC spells, run Dreadhorde Arcanist instead.
I can't decide if Smiting Helix is just outstanding Limited value or if it might actually be playable here. It would seem to enable similar play patterns as Lingering Souls--expensive front side that can sometimes be played for value plus an efficient flashback cost which makes it relatively painless to discard. But it's possible that's not as valuable on Bolts #5-6 as it is on Souls?
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
2 mana is borderline too heavy for a cantrip, but it's not like BW has much else, and the red cantrips don't come with card selection.
On another note, the new Seasoned Pyromancer seems extremely powerful for this deck.
Draft My Cube!
Smiting Helix has three outcomes as I see it.
1: default mode. It's an early "free" discard which powers Reveler and Seasoned Pyromancer and turns into a (sorcery-speed) Lightning Helix once you have white mana available.
2: card advantage mode. As a late-game topdeck in grindier matchups, it's feasible to cast the front side, at which point you're basically spending two mana to buy yourself an extra Lightning Helix.
3: fail state. You don't make it to four lands/don't have discard available and now the card is dead in hand.
Whether it's playable depends on whether the value of case 2 is worth the risk/likelihood of case 3, and whether the deck wants the bolts/lifegain. The playability of Lingering Souls suggests that the risk analysis works out, if you consider requiring a splash color vs. a fourth land to be roughly equivalent. I'll probably try it a as a 1-of.
The problem with it is the high cost to cast from hand. Lingering Souls is not really impressive when cast from hand, but it is decent. 2W for 2 Flying Spirits is a fair deal, although not really impressive. Smiting Helix on the other hand seems really clunky to cast from hand. 3B for a Sorcery Speed Lightning Helix is really bad.
So... not sure. IMO it has potential. The likely addition of Seasoned Pyromancers to the deck also make the card better. But still, it seems to me as a card with a pretty bad floor, which is not great.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Draft My Cube!
This is my first try on a mardu pyromancer list for a while. Feedback is very welcome.
I like it because it's similar to what I'm gonna test when MH will come out, but personally I'll replace the Angrath's Rampage with the old 1/1 split of Dreadbore and Terminate because most of the time I prefer targeting rather than playing around a hexproof creature, especially when you already have the "edict" effect in form of 2 LotV.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=392928
Modern - Mardu Death's Shadow(needs work)
DnT(mono white cause I had the cards)
Legacy - RUG Delver(almost foiled out)
RG Lands
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
It's a cmc3 Baby-Jace effect. With the tokens it also generates it may be ok, but it is a realy slow card.
[+1]: do nothing.
[+0]: deal 2-X damage to target opponent, where X is the number of creatures they control with toughness 2 or higher.
[-2]: flashback a card with CMC equal to your remaining mana after casting Chandra.
The only way you're guaranteed any kind of reasonable value is if you minus the turn you cast it, as any opposing creatures or even a simple bolt will leave her dead or unable to minus. But that requires having 4+ (preferably 5 or 6) lands in play which is absolutely not something you can count on with this deck. If you want to flashback 1-CMC spells, run Dreadhorde Arcanist instead.
I agree 100% with this assessment. Especially now, where the 3-drop slot becomes more and more crowded with (possibly) impactful cards like Kaya's Guile, Seasoned Pyromancer competing with old tech Liliana of the Veil,Liliana, the Last Hope...
Has anyone tested MH cards already?