I play 3 dragonskull summits for budget reason and they are totally fine in my opinion. I played the deck for more than 1 year on tournaments and had only 1 time where I had to mulligan because of dragonskull summit being no blackcleave cliffs. They are even better when playing on turn (e.g.) 6 followed up by a reveler...
Seems like the double black is a difficult thing. Isn’t this primarily a black/red deck? I thought double back would be fairly easy, especially since some of you do lilis.
I will try with summits first as you say. I don’t mind spending money, but I feel fastland prices are inflated beyond their usefulness. Also, they have a reprint target right on their head.
Seems like the double black is a difficult thing. Isn’t this primarily a black/red deck? I thought double back would be fairly easy, especially since some of you do lilis.
I will try with summits first as you say. I don’t mind spending money, but I feel fastland prices are inflated beyond their usefulness. Also, they have a reprint target right on their head.
Yes, most lists are heavy on R followed by B while W is just a splash. Double black is ok but you definitely don't want too many double black cards in your average Mardu Pyro deck. I guess, we have to see how good Ashiok is in our deck and how many we need to include.
I was thinking about Saheeli and did a couple of rounds with her main deck. Is she not as viable? Would it be possible to have her over some other things? I don’t know if 1/1 tokens producers are good enough for a 3 mana card. Would love to know thoughts on her.
I like saheeli’s passive and I think mardu has all the tools to make her good with all of our cheap spells. Plus, she is still castable under a blood moon. Her minus 2 doing nothing for us is a bummer since we don’t play very many or any artifacts. I think she is worth testing out.
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Little angel, go away come again some other day the Devil has my ear today I'll never hear a word you say. He promised I would find a little solace and some peace of mind. Whatever. just as long as I don't feel so desperate and ravenous.
I like saheeli’s passive and I think mardu has all the tools to make her good with all of our cheap spells. Plus, she is still castable under a blood moon. Her minus 2 doing nothing for us is a bummer since we don’t play very many or any artifacts. I think she is worth testing out.
The tokens that she creates are artifacts, you can -2 to turn a token into a second Bedlam Reveler or w/e.
If I were in the market for a 3cmc token producer, I would go to Monastery Mentor though.
If I were in the market for a 3cmc token producer, I would go to Monastery Mentor though.
The problem with Mentor is that he dies to any removal, though. Saheeli is harder to kill and if you cast her later on and have a spell up she can protect herself. Saheeli can also copy Young Pyromancer, Kambal or stuff like Pithing Needle.
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Modern UR Blue Moon UBR Grixis Shadow GWU Amulet Titan BRW Mardu Pyromancer
I feel like she is more in line with the strategy of this deck than Nahiri and we play Nahiri.
Also, Dreadhorde Arcanist is getting a lot of attention. Can that replace something in our deck? Maybe adding path to increase one mana cost spells? Seems like a good dark confidant for this deck. Am I off?
EDIT I mentioned dreadhorde because the Japanese community specifically mentioned it’ll be good in this deck. Also, the red promise casts the spells in the yard, right? So we get three tokens out of one spell? Isn’t this worth considering over some other spells? If we add path to increase one mana spells, it seems this deck can some major card advantage.
Dreadhorde Arcanist is certainly an interesting card and something I like a lot more than just jamming Goblin Rabblemaster into our deck hoping that he will solve our closing issues (he doesn't). He actively works against our Bedlam Revelers by exiling instants and sorceries from the deck, so an arcanist version might have to trim down to two Revelers.
I would also most likely want to include some number of Mutagenic Growth to the deck to open up our 2-3 drop spells.... or just to double target himself to get in for 5.
What I like about Saheeli, Sublime Artificer are the 5 starting loyalty counters and as PW she dodges a lot of removal.
I wonder if there is a way for Mardu to abuse the fact the she triggers of non-creature spells (not only instants or sorceries). Stuff like Nihil Spellbomb, Ensnaring Bridge and Runed Halo trigger her. Would probably be quite a different Mardu list than the current Mardu pyro... Anyway, she's intriguing and I will try her maybe for an FNM. I will consider copying a Young Pyromancer with Saheeli as a win
Regarding Dreadhorde Arcanist: He looks awesome if we can attack with him. However, I don't like that it makes Mardu even more dependent on the graveyard. He could replace some number of Bedlam Reveler. Are there already any ideas how to build Dreadhorde Mardu in the Japanese community?
I feel like she is more in line with the strategy of this deck than Nahiri and we play Nahiri.
Also, Dreadhorde Arcanist is getting a lot of attention. Can that replace something in our deck? Maybe adding path to increase one mana cost spells? Seems like a good dark confidant for this deck. Am I off?
EDIT I mentioned dreadhorde because the Japanese community specifically mentioned it’ll be good in this deck. Also, the red promise casts the spells in the yard, right? So we get three tokens out of one spell? Isn’t this worth considering over some other spells? If we add path to increase one mana spells, it seems this deck can some major card advantage.
Nahiri plays a much different role. She removes a lot of things we have trouble with (the exile clause is really good for us, since we don't play Paths), she fuels our Revelers, and wins the game eventually (the return to hand clause on the -8 ability is really sweet when we're searching for a Bedlam Reveler). I don't think this is a good comparison.
Saheeli might be good to work along with Pyros, or maybe even substituting then. I don't really think she's good enough to replace Pyros, but I could see her being copies 5~8 of Pyros with some upsides.
Dreadhorde Arcanist doesn't seem good enough for us, IMO. It'd be casting only one mana spells (which we do have a bunch, but it does limit our options), and it has to attack to work, which means that he must survive at least a turn before being useful, and the combat itself.
Ashiok could be a good sideboard tech IMO.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
There has been talk about dreadhorde, but a list hasn’t been suggested.
Regarding the one drop issue I am currently testing a list that shaves some two mana spells for some path to exiles. Changed the mana base to reflect a bit more dependence on the white and relegated blood moon to the side. Shaved some revelers for some dreadhorde.
I just can’t get the notion that turn one discard, turn two, two mana drop is ridiculously powerful and dreadhorde increases the possibility of that. I played legacy a lot and maybe it comes from that. I feel like since we don’t have tarmogoyfs, our deck can go a different tempo direction.
Just my 2 cents and thinking out loud while testing.
Dreadhorde is bad imho, it's only a 1/3 creature without haste that's not going to attack since Modern is the format with the most removal and it has also a clearly nonbo with Bedlam Revelers. We need cards that repay the mana investment on the same turn we played them.
Saheeli is also not quite good, sure thing she can make a few tokens but the -2 ability gets online only by turn 4 and only after we played a spell. As the Professor teach you need to think about "the ceiling and the floor" of a card: the ceiling is the best scenario, which in this case is Saheeli copy a Pyro or a Bedlam Reveler (this abilty is not good alone, think always that you need to cast a non-creature spell the turn after you played Saheeli), the floor is the worst scenario, which are many in this case for example you draw Saheeli after a boardwipe or you have only a bunch of Souls tokens on play. All in all I just think that Saheeli is not good enough, but these are my consideration and I would glad if someone will prove me wrong.
Hi guys! I follow this topic from the begin, also the old Primer Mardu Dega. I play Mardu since 5 years with some budget limits (no blackcleave, lotv, last hope, EE, bridge, surgical, leyline) and I buy one fetch at a time. I decide to dodge these lacks by playing more white spells and trying to adapt them to the local meta (BG rock, Humans, Jund, UW control, Burn, UR Phoenix, Whir). Last 2 FNM I notice that pte and helix, in some situation, are better than terminate and push. Opponents think about the BR list and don't consider white aspects of this deck. Now I read that you are talking about pte/white spells so I share my current list, maybe can help someone.
Creatures (9)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Young Pyromancer
1x Hazoret, the fervent
Thinking about remove 1xfatal push because there are only 5 fetch so it's more difficult to trigger revolt (and 3x pte can do quite the same job!). The 3rd helix SB can be very versatile; Rakdos Charm is not so good, feels like it's worst than nihil. Now I will give a try to Ashiok and Nahiri to be more midrange and less grave reliant. I know that Ashiok MB is a bit strange but considering the local meta it can do something nice.
First comment here and my english is not so great, so be patient any suggestion will be appreciated, specially in function of this "budget" version.
Stay Mardu!
Hi isaacblue! I'm on a budget as you and I like the replacement of Paths instead of BM (which I did too) and my manabase is similar to yours. What I would change in mainboard is another Sacred Foundry for the Godless Shrine because I felt that always having R is very important. Talking about the side I don't think Grafdigger's Cage is good because it shuts down our Lingering and Looting recursion, in that place I'd rather have another Nihil or a Shattering Spree since there's Whir in your meta or an Extirpate (budget version of Surgical) for Phoenix, I also don't like Crackling Doom and I'd rather play Blessed Alliance since it can be good either against Burn or Bogles and I love its flexibility.
Regarding Ashiok I like it too and I will probably test it soon.
I'm Italian so my English may be not good neither, I hope you understand what I was meaning Keep grinding the opponent!
Hey guys. I really like your “budget” list. I honestly think that this is a good direction to go. Path is good against the field and it kills everything we need. It is a non-bo with blood moon, which is why it’s in my sideboard. We lose the “oops we win”, but we gain the consistency of path being relevant in most matchups. It also ups the instant and sorcery count for revelers. Basically, game 1 is a grindy control deck and we sideboard into hate. I’m trying Kaya in my main, now that path is in the main. It has synergy and helps protect Kaya. I’m going to take this deck to a mid sized event in June. I’ll let you know what I find.
I need advice on what to do against a UW control player with un unknown number of maindeck rest in peace. What to do when there's a r.i.p on the battlefield? Bedlam Reveler becomes uncastable, so we just try to win with pyromancer and spirit tokens of lingering souls cast from hand?
In my field there are A LOT OF Big Mana decks and a bunch of Grindy decks, and Blood Moon is really important on those matches, so I'd say it would be strictly wrong to make this change in my field.
But if you don't expect to be facing a lot of these decks on your field, it seems perfectly fine to cut the Moons and play Paths. You'll probably make your Aggro match-ups better this way also.
In an unknown field, I'd also stick to the Blood Moons, since we won't have a chance against Big Manas without them.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
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Seems like the double black is a difficult thing. Isn’t this primarily a black/red deck? I thought double back would be fairly easy, especially since some of you do lilis.
I will try with summits first as you say. I don’t mind spending money, but I feel fastland prices are inflated beyond their usefulness. Also, they have a reprint target right on their head.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Yes, most lists are heavy on R followed by B while W is just a splash. Double black is ok but you definitely don't want too many double black cards in your average Mardu Pyro deck. I guess, we have to see how good Ashiok is in our deck and how many we need to include.
Yes, fastlands need to be reprinted .
I was thinking about Saheeli and did a couple of rounds with her main deck. Is she not as viable? Would it be possible to have her over some other things? I don’t know if 1/1 tokens producers are good enough for a 3 mana card. Would love to know thoughts on her.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
The tokens that she creates are artifacts, you can -2 to turn a token into a second Bedlam Reveler or w/e.
If I were in the market for a 3cmc token producer, I would go to Monastery Mentor though.
The problem with Mentor is that he dies to any removal, though. Saheeli is harder to kill and if you cast her later on and have a spell up she can protect herself. Saheeli can also copy Young Pyromancer, Kambal or stuff like Pithing Needle.
UR Blue Moon
UBR Grixis Shadow
GWU Amulet Titan
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
Also, Dreadhorde Arcanist is getting a lot of attention. Can that replace something in our deck? Maybe adding path to increase one mana cost spells? Seems like a good dark confidant for this deck. Am I off?
EDIT I mentioned dreadhorde because the Japanese community specifically mentioned it’ll be good in this deck. Also, the red promise casts the spells in the yard, right? So we get three tokens out of one spell? Isn’t this worth considering over some other spells? If we add path to increase one mana spells, it seems this deck can some major card advantage.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I would also most likely want to include some number of Mutagenic Growth to the deck to open up our 2-3 drop spells.... or just to double target himself to get in for 5.
I wonder if there is a way for Mardu to abuse the fact the she triggers of non-creature spells (not only instants or sorceries). Stuff like Nihil Spellbomb, Ensnaring Bridge and Runed Halo trigger her. Would probably be quite a different Mardu list than the current Mardu pyro... Anyway, she's intriguing and I will try her maybe for an FNM. I will consider copying a Young Pyromancer with Saheeli as a win
Regarding Dreadhorde Arcanist: He looks awesome if we can attack with him. However, I don't like that it makes Mardu even more dependent on the graveyard. He could replace some number of Bedlam Reveler. Are there already any ideas how to build Dreadhorde Mardu in the Japanese community?
Nahiri plays a much different role. She removes a lot of things we have trouble with (the exile clause is really good for us, since we don't play Paths), she fuels our Revelers, and wins the game eventually (the return to hand clause on the -8 ability is really sweet when we're searching for a Bedlam Reveler). I don't think this is a good comparison.
Saheeli might be good to work along with Pyros, or maybe even substituting then. I don't really think she's good enough to replace Pyros, but I could see her being copies 5~8 of Pyros with some upsides.
Dreadhorde Arcanist doesn't seem good enough for us, IMO. It'd be casting only one mana spells (which we do have a bunch, but it does limit our options), and it has to attack to work, which means that he must survive at least a turn before being useful, and the combat itself.
Ashiok could be a good sideboard tech IMO.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Regarding the one drop issue I am currently testing a list that shaves some two mana spells for some path to exiles. Changed the mana base to reflect a bit more dependence on the white and relegated blood moon to the side. Shaved some revelers for some dreadhorde.
I just can’t get the notion that turn one discard, turn two, two mana drop is ridiculously powerful and dreadhorde increases the possibility of that. I played legacy a lot and maybe it comes from that. I feel like since we don’t have tarmogoyfs, our deck can go a different tempo direction.
Just my 2 cents and thinking out loud while testing.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Saheeli is also not quite good, sure thing she can make a few tokens but the -2 ability gets online only by turn 4 and only after we played a spell. As the Professor teach you need to think about "the ceiling and the floor" of a card: the ceiling is the best scenario, which in this case is Saheeli copy a Pyro or a Bedlam Reveler (this abilty is not good alone, think always that you need to cast a non-creature spell the turn after you played Saheeli), the floor is the worst scenario, which are many in this case for example you draw Saheeli after a boardwipe or you have only a bunch of Souls tokens on play. All in all I just think that Saheeli is not good enough, but these are my consideration and I would glad if someone will prove me wrong.
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
Creatures (9)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Young Pyromancer
1x Hazoret, the fervent
Spells ( 31)
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lingering Souls
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
2x Dreadbore
2x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
3x Path to Exile
Land (20)
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
2x Concealed Courtyard
1x Inspiring Vantage
2x Dragonskull Summit
1x Marsh Flats
3x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Plains
Side
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Crackling Doom
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Lightning Helix
2x Molten Rain
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Stony Silence
2x Wear
MAIN: -1x bedlam, -1x hazoret, -1x push, +2x Ashiok, +1x Nahiri;
SIDE: -1x molten rain, -1x rakdos charm, +1x hazoret, +1x stony silence;
Thinking about remove 1xfatal push because there are only 5 fetch so it's more difficult to trigger revolt (and 3x pte can do quite the same job!). The 3rd helix SB can be very versatile; Rakdos Charm is not so good, feels like it's worst than nihil. Now I will give a try to Ashiok and Nahiri to be more midrange and less grave reliant. I know that Ashiok MB is a bit strange but considering the local meta it can do something nice.
First comment here and my english is not so great, so be patient any suggestion will be appreciated, specially in function of this "budget" version.
Stay Mardu!
R W B Mardu Pyro R W B
Pauper
U B R Grixis Metalcraft 2.0 U B R
W B Pestilence W B
EDH
W U B R G Najeela's Warrior W U B R G
W U B R Breya W U B R
Regarding Ashiok I like it too and I will probably test it soon.
I'm Italian so my English may be not good neither, I hope you understand what I was meaning Keep grinding the opponent!
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
This!
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
But if you don't expect to be facing a lot of these decks on your field, it seems perfectly fine to cut the Moons and play Paths. You'll probably make your Aggro match-ups better this way also.
In an unknown field, I'd also stick to the Blood Moons, since we won't have a chance against Big Manas without them.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer