I have been having success with both the centralised list and the bobzan lists. not sure which is better tbh. Will likely add a EE to the board if bogles keeps showing up
I've been playing Jund since the unbanning, but this list looks like it'd be a really tough matchup. Smiters and Rhinos line up well against removal, and as always Lingering Souls is very powerful and along with Smiter line up well against Liliana of the Veil. Hierarchs enable some pretty powerful plays, T2 Smiter or Souls, T3 Rhino, and being able to push through opposing Goyfs with exalted.
Seeing the hierarchs reminded me of this Abzan list I ran into day 2 of GP Van 2015, probably one of the heights of Jund's popularity prior to the unbanning, when Abzan was rising as the trump to Jund.
Obviously a lot of this deck is very out of place in the current meta, but I think the climate of Jund popularity is similar, and ideas can be taken from it. It's gotten me seriously thinking about trying to find a middle ground between the two lists, incorporating the transformational Gifts sideboard package.
The cost of the package as a whole is pretty low, mainboard you only need 1 Watery Grave to supplement the blue from Hierarchs. Sideboard you commit ~8 slots to the package, to add a completely unfair (and hopefully surprise) gameplan to the deck.
Iona seems like she ends the game against burn / combo, potentially blue decks (although Jace bounce hurts), and even Jund when naming black. Elesh Norn similarly seems like game over for any small creature deck. Terastodon for Tron / land decks.
I'm going to start roughing out a starting point for a list, but wanted to get some initial feedback on my thinking early on. Do you think there's potential in the transformational gifts package? If yes, are there other/better gifts targets to consider? I'm really interested to hear some thoughts.
This looks like a Little Kid Abzan list, or an Abzan Liege, without its namesake (Wilt-Leaf Liege). There is a thread that used to be in developping competitive decks. That particular deck seems purposefully built to attack Jund: 4/4 and 4/5 when Jund has abandoned Fatal Push in favor of Lightning Bolt, Loxodon Smiter against Lili (and counterspells,I guess).
Hey guys, I am thinking about getting into midrange as I already have U-tron for big mana/control. There was a recent budget magic deck on mtggoldfish here that I thought looks fun. Is this in any way along a path to a full deck? I already had the paths and the angels and some of the other stuff. I can stick with the reanimator and gradually get a manabase going, then start transitioning into the better threats. But I also would like to hear your thoughts if you don't mind, as you are all the ones who have had to pick up these BGx decks already.
I've been playing around with decklists the last couple days, and this is the first iteration of my transformational Abzan list I'm going to be testing over the next week or so:
My first iteration had 3 Souls, 4 Smiters, 4 Rhinos, 1 Path, and 23 land with 1 Township and 2 Treetops, but after some testing I found that the colour requirements were too intensive, and the deck felt a bit light on lands.
I ended up cutting 1 Smiter and 1 Rhino to ease the colour requirements a little, adding a Tasigur and a 2nd Township. Cutting the Smiter and Rhino make the mana easier, and Tasigur adds a bit of card advantage that was lacking with 0 Bob. Cutting the Path for 5th discard spell helps Tasigur delve, and adds some additional disruption / protection for the already hard to remove threats in the deck while aiding delve. I feel that 0 Path is correct with few good targets, and referencing pre-unbanning lists seems to validate that decision.
For the sideboard I tried to pick the most versatile cards I could which I feel is important when only 7 slots are not committed to the transformational sideboard. The other non-gifts slots are targeting the matchups I felt were the weakest, Choke for blue control and Damnation for Humans / Company / Eldrazi Aggro. I think Collected Brutality, Stony Silence, and Engineered Explosives can be brought in against a lot of decks which seems like a good place to be with a limited number of flex slots in the SB.
My current concerns are:
Choke may be too narrow, or not good enough against blue control if non-Island lands are common enough. Some other source of card advantage or threat might be better? Considerations are a Liliana, The Last Hope, Thrun, the Last Troll, 2nd Tasigur, the Golden Fang or another discard spell instead?
Post-board Gifts Ungiven into reanimated Terastodon may not be fast enough to deal with Tron lands.
It's been said over and over in many different groups that Thrun is a really really really good sideboard card
As soon as I added him I realised I would never go back, he has so much utility in so many matches and is just an all-round excellent card
How is everyone fighting combo? I played some junk this past week and was feeling pretty good in most matches in testing, then only paired with combo. Storm, Valakut, Storm... Any advice? I did resolve a Runed Halo against storm in one game, but he just deck sifted while going off into his one of Echoing Truth.
How is everyone fighting combo? I played some junk this past week and was feeling pretty good in most matches in testing, then only paired with combo. Storm, Valakut, Storm... Any advice? I did resolve a Runed Halo against storm in one game, but he just deck sifted while going off into his one of Echoing Truth.
Valakut is a Big Mana deck, not a combo deck. Valakut is pretty tough, its probably the worst matchup we have. Storm on the other hand is a very good matchup. I don't know why you are running Runed Halo in your Abzan deck, its not needed at all.
The key to Storm is discard, GY hate, cheap removal for their bears and a quick clock.
How is everyone fighting combo? I played some junk this past week and was feeling pretty good in most matches in testing, then only paired with combo. Storm, Valakut, Storm... Any advice? I did resolve a Runed Halo against storm in one game, but he just deck sifted while going off into his one of Echoing Truth.
As FlyingDelver said combo is a good matchup for us. We have good disruption and fast clock which is the best combination to fight combo decks. Ideally you have turn 1 discard into turn 2 Tarmogoyf and then turn 3 LoTV.
The same plan is for Valakut but this matchup is very bad for us they have better top decks than us and it's very hard to interact with their deck.
Valakut....argh. well for a budget option Lost Legacy is a good option to hit the titan or scapeshift. I'm playing Abzan Traverse and I play Surgical Extraction and Whisper of Emrakul due to the efficiency of getting delirium by turn 3 or even shortly after a graveyard wipe. Combo decks shouldn't be an issue for GBx
The best thing you can do is fulminator a valakut and extract it. However a good valakut player plays around that easily. So this is pretty unlikely.
Of course, Valakut is tough, but after playing in a tournament, several times, playing against Valakut, Storm and Lantern Control. My whole sideboard became a hate combo big mana deck. With Whispers of Emrakul, Bow of Nylea and Surgical extraction. Don't lose to those decks at all.
Maybe more removal/discard as Liliana replacement.
I'm honestly unsure since I'm not used to play with this deck. Thanks!
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How has everyone's testing been going. I have done really well since switching back to the centralised list. I think its a combination of cards lining up well and comfortably playing the deck. My current list is the following.
I'm almost there building abzan midrange (damn lili spike! ) and have always wondered, what does abzan traverse provide over regular abzan?
I allready run 3 baubles to cycle, fix and grow goyf. Would the traverse package be worth it over more disruption and removal spells?
Deck is below
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Dark Confidant
3 Fatal Push
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
3 Grim Flayer
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Path to Exile
1 Plains
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Temple Garden
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
I have been having success with both the centralised list and the bobzan lists. not sure which is better tbh. Will likely add a EE to the board if bogles keeps showing up
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creature (19)
1 Dark Confidant
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (9)
3 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
Instant (6)
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Choke
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
I've been playing Jund since the unbanning, but this list looks like it'd be a really tough matchup. Smiters and Rhinos line up well against removal, and as always Lingering Souls is very powerful and along with Smiter line up well against Liliana of the Veil. Hierarchs enable some pretty powerful plays, T2 Smiter or Souls, T3 Rhino, and being able to push through opposing Goyfs with exalted.
Seeing the hierarchs reminded me of this Abzan list I ran into day 2 of GP Van 2015, probably one of the heights of Jund's popularity prior to the unbanning, when Abzan was rising as the trump to Jund.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (24)
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Batterskull
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
1 Batterskull
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Terastodon
2 Stony Silence
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Unburial Rites
Obviously a lot of this deck is very out of place in the current meta, but I think the climate of Jund popularity is similar, and ideas can be taken from it. It's gotten me seriously thinking about trying to find a middle ground between the two lists, incorporating the transformational Gifts sideboard package.
The cost of the package as a whole is pretty low, mainboard you only need 1 Watery Grave to supplement the blue from Hierarchs. Sideboard you commit ~8 slots to the package, to add a completely unfair (and hopefully surprise) gameplan to the deck.
Iona seems like she ends the game against burn / combo, potentially blue decks (although Jace bounce hurts), and even Jund when naming black. Elesh Norn similarly seems like game over for any small creature deck. Terastodon for Tron / land decks.
I'm going to start roughing out a starting point for a list, but wanted to get some initial feedback on my thinking early on. Do you think there's potential in the transformational gifts package? If yes, are there other/better gifts targets to consider? I'm really interested to hear some thoughts.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
Sorceries (11)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (17)
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Siege Rhino
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Land (24)
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
2 Gavony Township
1 Choke
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Stony Silence
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastodon
1 Unburial Rites
My first iteration had 3 Souls, 4 Smiters, 4 Rhinos, 1 Path, and 23 land with 1 Township and 2 Treetops, but after some testing I found that the colour requirements were too intensive, and the deck felt a bit light on lands.
I ended up cutting 1 Smiter and 1 Rhino to ease the colour requirements a little, adding a Tasigur and a 2nd Township. Cutting the Smiter and Rhino make the mana easier, and Tasigur adds a bit of card advantage that was lacking with 0 Bob. Cutting the Path for 5th discard spell helps Tasigur delve, and adds some additional disruption / protection for the already hard to remove threats in the deck while aiding delve. I feel that 0 Path is correct with few good targets, and referencing pre-unbanning lists seems to validate that decision.
For the sideboard I tried to pick the most versatile cards I could which I feel is important when only 7 slots are not committed to the transformational sideboard. The other non-gifts slots are targeting the matchups I felt were the weakest, Choke for blue control and Damnation for Humans / Company / Eldrazi Aggro. I think Collected Brutality, Stony Silence, and Engineered Explosives can be brought in against a lot of decks which seems like a good place to be with a limited number of flex slots in the SB.
My current concerns are:
As soon as I added him I realised I would never go back, he has so much utility in so many matches and is just an all-round excellent card
"Reveal a Dragon"
Valakut is a Big Mana deck, not a combo deck. Valakut is pretty tough, its probably the worst matchup we have. Storm on the other hand is a very good matchup. I don't know why you are running Runed Halo in your Abzan deck, its not needed at all.
The key to Storm is discard, GY hate, cheap removal for their bears and a quick clock.
Valakut....argh. well for a budget option Lost Legacy is a good option to hit the titan or scapeshift. I'm playing Abzan Traverse and I play Surgical Extraction and Whisper of Emrakul due to the efficiency of getting delirium by turn 3 or even shortly after a graveyard wipe. Combo decks shouldn't be an issue for GBx
Of course if your store Meta is all big mana then go ahead
If your store is all big mana Abzan is not the correct deck to run honestly.
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
2 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grim Flayer
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Lingering Souls
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
Maybe a third Grim Flayer or Scavenging Ooze as Goyf replacement. Other options are Siege Rhino, a second Tireless Tracker, Kitchen Finks.
Maybe more removal/discard as Liliana replacement.
I'm honestly unsure since I'm not used to play with this deck. Thanks!
3 Grim Flayer
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Siege Rhino
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Shambling Vent
1 Treetop Village
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Damnation
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
So I’m playing Abzan Traverse. Jadine Klomparens list from several months ago. Been having minor success with it.
Maindeck (60)
4 Grim Flayer
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Siege Rhino
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Lingering Souls
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
Sideboard (15)
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Duress
2 Collective Brutality
1 Golgari Charm
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
Shared via TopDecked MTG
I allready run 3 baubles to cycle, fix and grow goyf. Would the traverse package be worth it over more disruption and removal spells?
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Shambling Vent
2 Treetop Village
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Twilight Mire
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
Noncreature Spells [23]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Lingering Souls
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Collective Brutality
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Damnation
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Stony Silence
1 Liliana, the Last Hope