@guitar90x
Don't cut that many lands imo, cantrips aren't lands. You want to make your land drops and play your spells.
Like even if you get delirium, traversing for a creature and casting it is still at least 3 mana. Nevermind that you want to get to 5 mana to traverse into something impactful like Rhino to cast it in the same turn. Similiarly, Treetop also requires mana for activation or you need 4 mana to drop double 2 cmc creatures. Like I've been really happy with Scooze since I went up to 20 lands because I always end up having a good amount of mana to activate it frequently. Like goyf is a fine clock if your opponent can't produce chump blockers but if they can, it really doesn't do much.
Traversing for a land is also a waste of resources. Sure, it'll get you there but it's not a play you want to be making on T1 or T2. Best openers this deck are discard > threat or discard into more discard most of the time. Similiarly, manamorphose has huge downsides. Like Thalia is already a huge problem with bauble and combined with manamorphose, your deck will slow down to a crawl trying to get to your redraws if you can't produce a removal spell.
In the end, you're giving up consistency for a slightly more explosive start and it's really not worth it.
I feel the same about the deck. I would also love to go up to 20 lands, but am really not sure what to cut, I am really keen on every copy of removal spells in the deck. I feel I need them. Need to figure it out a little bit more.
the deck is very consistent with 11 cantrips and 17 lands. i dont havr magic online but if i do i rrally think it can 5-0. i dont have problem reaching 4 lands. its only a few marginal hands u get 1 lander and have to traverse. but most of the time you have flooded hands and still keepable. drop treetop becuase we need atleast 14 sources just on opening hand. after that, cantrips can find what u need.
ill have a list shortly and if anyone what to try it online, that would be great.
I think 20 lands is pretty good for the deck, it's what I used to play, but I feel the same as FlyingDelver; Im not comfortable cutting anything.
Plus, i've been getting very good results with the deck as it is and it feels even better with the latest changes. You also have the option of going up to 20 post sb (granted, bojuka might be a bad land in that respect)
I can see dropping a push for a land though, I just don't want to weaken the deck any further against aggro and push is our best removal in that sense, is push really the best card to cut?
I'll test and see, all the latest changes Brightmist suggested were pretty good imo so he may be correct here.
I think its pretty tough to cut the Push if we also replace the second damnation with the golgari charm as discussed. I think you could do one or the other, but not both. I also think we would be a little bit to weak to aggro then.
Well its creature based matchups in general, like Humans, Affinity, Counters Company (and Bant Knightfall or Bant Spirits), Elves, this Bushwhacker or vengevine deck etc. I feel I don't want to get randomly stomped by those decks. It just a matter of playstyle for me, I want to have those matchups covered.
The more I play with the deck, With wins versus Mardu Pyro, GR Tooth and Nail and Spirits yesterday, the more i'm starting to like it.
It's definetely different than the Sultai variant. The sideboard is way more proactive and mainboard Souls and Path are pretty good right now.
Damnation saved one game against Humans and made the last easy, although I pretty much had the upper hand by the time it showed up.
Inquisition of Kozilek is still the best thing to have in one's draw versus Burn and the only thing better is two of them. Collective Brutality is also good to have. This is the only match-up where the land destruction played any role, as I was able to keep him off W for much of the time. Kitchen Finks did some work, but he had Grim Lavamancer and that prevented Scavenging Ooze from helping.
The Kiln Fiend jank was just a matter of hand-hate and killing Thing in response to the third spell; i.e., the one before it would flip. I don't recall the spell, but he would try to give it hexproof and then he would hit it with Temur Battle Rage to flip it. Fortunately, I had seen this in casual games before the FNM.
My idea behind this build was to have some hope against big-mana decks but none were on hand to try it against.
Don't you think Cast Down would be better than Victim of Night costwise and the fact that Cast Down hits Gurmag Angler?
Cost-wise, certainly. Coverage-wise, probably. Victim of Night has been in the Rock for some time and I just didn't get around to swapping it. I think I'm going to run two copies of Cast Down and also drop one Fatal Push.
Then again, I might switch back to Traverse. There are also some Junk variants I've been wanting to try. I just can't get Murmuring Bosk off my mind.
i went 3-1 yesterday at fnm event. played with elves, bant spirits, humans and lost to tron. just make a mistake that cozt me the game. kept a traverse on top hoping to deliruim after grim flayer attacks next turn and stone rain him,instead of having deliruim now. calculated it afterthought, it would be a faster clock.
but the deck is awesome, it feels you have game with any deck.
What would you guys say, would you play Grim Flayer only Bolt-proof against Mardu? Or risk it for one turn. Lets say if you don't know the opponents hand.
i went 3-1 yesterday at fnm event. played with elves, bant spirits, humans and lost to tron. just make a mistake that cozt me the game. kept a traverse on top hoping to deliruim after grim flayer attacks next turn and stone rain him,instead of having deliruim now. calculated it afterthought, it would be a faster clock.
but the deck is awesome, it feels you have game with any deck.
That's the main thing I like about the deck, it feels you don't have to fear any matchup (sure, UW control and some big mana decks are tough, but its still quite winnable)
the deck is very consistent with 11 cantrips and 17 lands. i dont havr magic online but if i do i rrally think it can 5-0. i dont have problem reaching 4 lands. its only a few marginal hands u get 1 lander and have to traverse. but most of the time you have flooded hands and still keepable. drop treetop becuase we need atleast 14 sources just on opening hand. after that, cantrips can find what u need.
ill have a list shortly and if anyone what to try it online, that would be great.
Plus, i've been getting very good results with the deck as it is and it feels even better with the latest changes. You also have the option of going up to 20 post sb (granted, bojuka might be a bad land in that respect)
I can see dropping a push for a land though, I just don't want to weaken the deck any further against aggro and push is our best removal in that sense, is push really the best card to cut?
I'll test and see, all the latest changes Brightmist suggested were pretty good imo so he may be correct here.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-07-27
Well you can't really rely on that argument since otherwise the whole SB consisting of silver bullet 1-ofs would make no sense.
For me the cut is either push, brutality, or anafenza. But then again, im fine with 19 lands as long as 2 swamps are there.
It's definetely different than the Sultai variant. The sideboard is way more proactive and mainboard Souls and Path are pretty good right now.
Currently, this is what I play.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Treetop Vilage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the last Hope
Creatures (13)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Flayer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Walking Ballista
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Siege Rhino
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Grisly Salvage
1 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgixal Extraction
2 Damping Sphere
1 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Damnation
1 Shriekmaw
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Damping Sphere is in there mainly because i don't own more copies of Fulminator Mage. Could probably be Stony Silence
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Tireless Trackers
Land
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Hissing Quagmire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
1 Victim of Night
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the last Hope
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Big Game Hunter
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Damnation
1 Night of Souls Betrayal
It beat 5-Color Humans, Boros Burn, and a Kiln Fiend, Thing in the Ice deck of some sort.
Damnation saved one game against Humans and made the last easy, although I pretty much had the upper hand by the time it showed up.
Inquisition of Kozilek is still the best thing to have in one's draw versus Burn and the only thing better is two of them. Collective Brutality is also good to have. This is the only match-up where the land destruction played any role, as I was able to keep him off W for much of the time. Kitchen Finks did some work, but he had Grim Lavamancer and that prevented Scavenging Ooze from helping.
The Kiln Fiend jank was just a matter of hand-hate and killing Thing in response to the third spell; i.e., the one before it would flip. I don't recall the spell, but he would try to give it hexproof and then he would hit it with Temur Battle Rage to flip it. Fortunately, I had seen this in casual games before the FNM.
My idea behind this build was to have some hope against big-mana decks but none were on hand to try it against.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Cost-wise, certainly. Coverage-wise, probably. Victim of Night has been in the Rock for some time and I just didn't get around to swapping it. I think I'm going to run two copies of Cast Down and also drop one Fatal Push.
Then again, I might switch back to Traverse. There are also some Junk variants I've been wanting to try. I just can't get Murmuring Bosk off my mind.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
but the deck is awesome, it feels you have game with any deck.
That's the main thing I like about the deck, it feels you don't have to fear any matchup (sure, UW control and some big mana decks are tough, but its still quite winnable)
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
sometimes you get free wins too when u draw all goyfs and flayers.
Also true, no easy win, you have to work for it everytime