I have enjoyed her as a one of in my G/B rock list. Her plus ability works well with trackers. It could just be my desire to finally have a modern playable Vraska, but she seems good.
I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
I have enjoyed her as a one of in my G/B rock list. Her plus ability works well with trackers. It could just be my desire to finally have a modern playable Vraska, but she seems good.
I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
I don't play it in BGx but in BG.. it happens sometimes that the game ends with 1 or 0 lands for my opponent, if he has a greedy manabase with less basics.. even the basics get GQ'd away.. Tec Edge was also great against lot of decks.. it's not hard to cut your opp off of a color with this deck..
I would never leave home without my Bobs.. I think that he is criminally underplayed.. in my deck he is an all star.. in grindy games, Bob and Tracker made me draw half of my deck..
fast aggro decks can be a problem, it is very important to have 1 removal spell and Bob in you starting hand so he can let you draw your removal fast enough.. if you manage to take over until turn 5 I think you can not lose anymore..
If you end most games with your opponent on few or no lands, that is interesting. I just find it very contra intuetive that your deck suddenly is a land destruction deck with the inclusion of assassins thropy. So you are first gonne flodd them out, and then lategame kill them with grinding out their lands. It sounds very bad. That being said, Todd Stevens Valuetown decks that run Azusa, and ramunamp escavator can play 3 ghost quarters a turn and destroy your opponents mana. LftL is teqnicaly the same, but much slowe. I find it baffeling. Just adding LftL seems bad, but I am happy you are having results with it. When people like FlyingDelver try to defend LftL as a good card and cites cycling lands as a stock awnser, when the deck does not run any cycling landsJust seems wrong.
Also XOPYC you say you think BoB is underplayed. This is not true. Reid Duke had advocated this card long before BBE got unbanned. And the claim that they are never bad leads me to belive that your local meta has very little agro in it. GB with bobs vas burn is a horrible matchups. Post board they need to draw relic and nulefy your goyf and you are way behind. Combined with you having 6 posts, and claiming you often end up vs an opponent withouth lands in play speaks volumes about what decks you often meet in your meta. For that meta it makes great sence to play with card draw like BoB and grindy cards like LftL, but I am very sceptical to a better representative meta with more diversaty.
Mind you, I do not mind it as critique, but I think it is not universaly good. I am a big fan of LftL though, I just wish it was better in the deck.
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I have enjoyed her as a one of in my G/B rock list. Her plus ability works well with trackers. It could just be my desire to finally have a modern playable Vraska, but she seems good.
I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
Maindeck or side?
I'm running one main deck. I'm running bob so I really dont want to flip more than one of her.
I tried trackers but agree with whoever said about having hands full of 3 drops. I much prefer tracker in the BG shell with field of ruin. There it is the all start. In Junk/Jund i prefer bob. He draws you removal and forces you to play aggressive. In modern this is ok as we are being pressured all the time and churn through resources. Against control he is a must kill spell.
My post was of course partially tongue-in-cheek, but over on the last page of the Tron thread, some of what seem to be their most dedicated players are talking up the Goyf sideboard plan. One of them links to this, wherein a streamer breaks down his build (including 3x Goyf out of the side). Both the streamer and the poster who linked his content seem to believe that Goyf shines most against BGx in general and BG Rock in particular (but yeah, it's gotta be great for them against Burn as well, among others).
I'm happy to leave it at that if this topic doesn't warrant further exploration; maybe it's only a flash in the pan. But treacherous Tarmogoyfs are definitely a possibility to be wary of when headed into post-side games against Tron, at least for the moment.
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My post was of course partially tongue-in-cheek, but over on the last page of the Tron thread, some of what seem to be their most dedicated players are talking up the Goyf sideboard plan. One of them links to this, wherein a streamer breaks down his build (including 3x Goyf out of the side). Both the streamer and the poster who linked his content seem to believe that Goyf shines most against BGx in general and BG Rock in particular (but yeah, it's gotta be great for them against Burn as well, among others).
I'm happy to leave it at that if this topic doesn't warrant further exploration; maybe it's only a flash in the pan. But treacherous Tarmogoyfs are definitely a possibility to be wary of when headed into post-side games against Tron, at least for the moment.
thanks for sharing that, this seems like a good thing to keep an eye on.
thanks for sharing that, this seems like a good thing to keep an eye on.
You got it!
IMO Trophy has made the Tron matchup better, but the choices are also murkier from our perspective at every stage of preparation/execution: sideboard composition, sideboard ins and outs, keeps/mulls, and gameplay patterns. These complications are exacerbated further since some Tron players are, at least in the short term, noticeably re-tooling their sideboards. Even if the Goyf tech doesn't stick, we could--for example--see a more permanent uptick in the numbers of Thragtusk in average sideboards. As you say, this will be a good thing to keep an eye on.
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this week i made 5-2 to a top16 finish with the exact same list that i've won with last week
lost against humans, my oponent had a very good game 1 draw and i flooded horribly game 3
the other round lost was against tron, i simply couldnt put pressure + disruption. Trophy and field bought me time but i didnt have the creatures to pressure and use that time
won agaisnt 2x blue moon and uw control, trophy helps a lo in this matchups, you often needed a few conditional removal for planeswlkers, lands, enchantments, etc that ended up dead in hand if you didnt draw the right one
the other wins where against burn, thanks to a less painfull manabase, and titanshift thanks to having bigger creatures than jund
So against Bridgevine, I have 8-9 cards to board in. After making the most obvious cuts of LoTV and TS (3x each), I’m unsure which of the remaining bad cards are the worst. It’s between IoK, Push, and Trophy.
IoK probably has the highest ceiling (taking a Neonate on T1 and leaving them without a discard enabler, for instance), and the lowest floor (dead topdeck after they empty their hand; or worse, you cast it and have no choice but to take a Bridge).
Fatal Push has a much higher ceiling and much lower floor. You’re probably just hitting a token or a recursive threat with this, rendering it more a poor tempo play than a real answer.
Trophy is often a far worse Push, but it has a few noteworthy exceptions that might make it better overall: hitting Greater Gargadon; hitting Leyline post-side; hitting Vengevine (again, as a tempo play) without Revolt needed.
Any thoughts on what comes out? I don’t actually hate trimming around the edges and dropping one of each or so, but that seems unscientific.
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i would board out IOK personally and leave the other removal in. You need to slow them down. Also IOK hits too many cards that they actually want to discard like bloodghast or bridge.
I have enjoyed her as a one of in my G/B rock list. Her plus ability works well with trackers. It could just be my desire to finally have a modern playable Vraska, but she seems good.
I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
Maindeck or side?
I've actually been running 3 Main to try her out. That's too many but I wanted to make sure I actually see the card. Basically -2 Tasigar, -1 Removal from the more stock lists.
i would board out IOK personally and leave the other removal in. You need to slow them down. Also IOK hits too many cards that they actually want to discard like bloodghast or bridge.
Yep, that’s certainly the safest choice, and I agree that it’s probably the best. Just didn’t know if anyone thought it was worth exploring the riskier tactic of leaving in a couple IoKs in hopes of sniping a Neonate or Looting on T1.
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I have enjoyed her as a one of in my G/B rock list. Her plus ability works well with trackers. It could just be my desire to finally have a modern playable Vraska, but she seems good.
I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
Maindeck or side?
I've actually been running 3 Main to try her out. That's too many but I wanted to make sure I actually see the card. Basically -2 Tasigar, -1 Removal from the more stock lists.
How does Abzan Blink compare to this or is blink like a derivative or the same?
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Actually pretty good. Yes, she is sometimes a 4 CMC 1 for 1. Stupid Bloodbraid Elf. But if she sticks she does work. I typically drop her, minus and then just plus to cannibalize the manabase until something worthwhile hits the board. My top end are 4-drops so I could see how running her could impose a deck building constraint. The lifegain is surprisingly relevant against burn. She is stupid good alongside Tracker. I've used her ultimate a few times. Once I should have just kept the card draw engine going but a couple of times the opponent is out of cards with no board.
I'm running her with the trackers, and they work so well together. The life gain has been good, especially since flipping her off bob hurts. What do you think the best number for her is. I'm currently only running one, but I'm thinking about running a second one in the side.
I have this pre-GRN list, and I was wondering if it's worth updating. I'm aware that Lingering Souls is not really well positioned right now, and that is one of the reasons I'm leaning more to Jund or BG rock than Abzan.
Other than that, what would you change? Should I move onto a different list or color? Thanks!
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I've been running her in straight GB and been impressed. 1-2 is probably the right number. She is pretty bad in multiples. I've just used her +1 on excess lands and it has been fine. LotV into Vraska is great.
Maindeck or side?
If you end most games with your opponent on few or no lands, that is interesting. I just find it very contra intuetive that your deck suddenly is a land destruction deck with the inclusion of assassins thropy. So you are first gonne flodd them out, and then lategame kill them with grinding out their lands. It sounds very bad. That being said, Todd Stevens Valuetown decks that run Azusa, and ramunamp escavator can play 3 ghost quarters a turn and destroy your opponents mana. LftL is teqnicaly the same, but much slowe. I find it baffeling. Just adding LftL seems bad, but I am happy you are having results with it. When people like FlyingDelver try to defend LftL as a good card and cites cycling lands as a stock awnser, when the deck does not run any cycling landsJust seems wrong.
Also XOPYC you say you think BoB is underplayed. This is not true. Reid Duke had advocated this card long before BBE got unbanned. And the claim that they are never bad leads me to belive that your local meta has very little agro in it. GB with bobs vas burn is a horrible matchups. Post board they need to draw relic and nulefy your goyf and you are way behind. Combined with you having 6 posts, and claiming you often end up vs an opponent withouth lands in play speaks volumes about what decks you often meet in your meta. For that meta it makes great sence to play with card draw like BoB and grindy cards like LftL, but I am very sceptical to a better representative meta with more diversaty.
Mind you, I do not mind it as critique, but I think it is not universaly good. I am a big fan of LftL though, I just wish it was better in the deck.
I'm running one main deck. I'm running bob so I really dont want to flip more than one of her.
(I’m joking about it being an affront)
(...kinda)
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I'm happy to leave it at that if this topic doesn't warrant further exploration; maybe it's only a flash in the pan. But treacherous Tarmogoyfs are definitely a possibility to be wary of when headed into post-side games against Tron, at least for the moment.
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thanks for sharing that, this seems like a good thing to keep an eye on.
You got it!
IMO Trophy has made the Tron matchup better, but the choices are also murkier from our perspective at every stage of preparation/execution: sideboard composition, sideboard ins and outs, keeps/mulls, and gameplay patterns. These complications are exacerbated further since some Tron players are, at least in the short term, noticeably re-tooling their sideboards. Even if the Goyf tech doesn't stick, we could--for example--see a more permanent uptick in the numbers of Thragtusk in average sideboards. As you say, this will be a good thing to keep an eye on.
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lost against humans, my oponent had a very good game 1 draw and i flooded horribly game 3
the other round lost was against tron, i simply couldnt put pressure + disruption. Trophy and field bought me time but i didnt have the creatures to pressure and use that time
won agaisnt 2x blue moon and uw control, trophy helps a lo in this matchups, you often needed a few conditional removal for planeswlkers, lands, enchantments, etc that ended up dead in hand if you didnt draw the right one
the other wins where against burn, thanks to a less painfull manabase, and titanshift thanks to having bigger creatures than jund
IoK probably has the highest ceiling (taking a Neonate on T1 and leaving them without a discard enabler, for instance), and the lowest floor (dead topdeck after they empty their hand; or worse, you cast it and have no choice but to take a Bridge).
Fatal Push has a much higher ceiling and much lower floor. You’re probably just hitting a token or a recursive threat with this, rendering it more a poor tempo play than a real answer.
Trophy is often a far worse Push, but it has a few noteworthy exceptions that might make it better overall: hitting Greater Gargadon; hitting Leyline post-side; hitting Vengevine (again, as a tempo play) without Revolt needed.
Any thoughts on what comes out? I don’t actually hate trimming around the edges and dropping one of each or so, but that seems unscientific.
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I've actually been running 3 Main to try her out. That's too many but I wanted to make sure I actually see the card. Basically -2 Tasigar, -1 Removal from the more stock lists.
Yep, that’s certainly the safest choice, and I agree that it’s probably the best. Just didn’t know if anyone thought it was worth exploring the riskier tactic of leaving in a couple IoKs in hopes of sniping a Neonate or Looting on T1.
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How has she been performing for you?
-Stay Frosty
Actually pretty good. Yes, she is sometimes a 4 CMC 1 for 1. Stupid Bloodbraid Elf. But if she sticks she does work. I typically drop her, minus and then just plus to cannibalize the manabase until something worthwhile hits the board. My top end are 4-drops so I could see how running her could impose a deck building constraint. The lifegain is surprisingly relevant against burn. She is stupid good alongside Tracker. I've used her ultimate a few times. Once I should have just kept the card draw engine going but a couple of times the opponent is out of cards with no board.
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
4 Dark Confidant
3 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Path to Exile
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Crime // Punishment
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Languish
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
Other than that, what would you change? Should I move onto a different list or color? Thanks!