With some lists running white for Lingering Souls, I went to the first page and read through the primer but did not find anything about Bitterblossom. What's the general thought on this? Has it already been discussed?
In my eyes, Bitterblossom could be a good SB card in the right matchup, if not a 1-2 of in the MB:
- it's in the right color
- it helps attack from a different angle (go wide strategy and flying)
- it helps us to lose life for our DS
- but it can also act as a life-saving engine
- it improves control matchups
- it defends our threats against LotV
I would not say gds is the most consistent deck. any deck with only 8 wincons and card heterogeneity is going to have variance. Burn and valakut are much more consistent because every single card has the same purpose. Gds is, however, the most consistent in its matchups in that most are close to 50/50 and they often just leverage player skill.
How do you guys approach the Abzan Midrange matchup? I always find their higher count of threats and answers an uphill battle to grind through.
In particular, I find the shadow deck weak to LotV, Abrupt Decay and Lingering Souls.
How do you guys approach the Abzan Midrange matchup? I always find their higher count of threats and answers an uphill battle to grind through.
In particular, I find the shadow deck weak to LotV, Abrupt Decay and Lingering Souls.
I will often aggressively discard/Stub Lingering Souls. The tokens are really hard to beat if you don't draw something like LtlH or Staticaster, while you can come back from simply being down a card. But the best strategy against Abzan is to dodge it
I've played only once against Abzan... but I have to say I was really lucky... He was mana screwed game 1 and luckily for me didn't see any Lingering Souls or LotV during the second game, so it felt very favorable for GDS... I am pretty sure that any of those threats would have made my life a lot more difficult.
Abzan is can be one of GDS's toughest matchups, depending on how they build their deck. Lingering Souls is already the midrange mirror breaker, but they're extra good against Shadow decks which start at 10 life or less. Plus they have plenty of planeswalkers, must kill threats, removal, manlands, and a plenty of sources of card advantage. Abzan is still the king of the midrange wars. It's hard to stick a threat against them, and if you don't deal with most of their threats you often lose on the spot. And if they play Siege Rhino, good luck. We could probably build GDS to have a reasonable matchup against them, but it's just not worth sacrificing the % points in all of the other matchups.
That’s so strange. I don’t feel like Abzan is very strongly positioned in the meta though, so I guess chalk that one up to “dodge a wrench, dodge this match”
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I'm excited to play this deck. I currently have the Jund DS build as of now. I'm waiting for some cards to come in the mail to complete the main and I can piece the sideboard together. I currently only have 3 Snapcaster Mages until I get the fourth. Also I have no Scalding Tarns but I can make substitutions. I didn't like that Jund DS had only 8 creatures where this deck has a veritable 12. I was going to pick up some Grim Flayers but haven't yet. I also really wanted to play with Snapcaster. Obviously this deck looks complex to pilot. Also I know it was hovering around "the best deck in modern" but with DS variants and the emergence of Jeskai Control, who knows.
Any thoughts on updating the primer? I think we got a lot of good inputs and strategies in this thread that would be nice to have condensed and easily read.
I'm excited to play this deck. I currently have the Jund DS build as of now. I'm waiting for some cards to come in the mail to complete the main and I can piece the sideboard together. I currently only have 3 Snapcaster Mages until I get the fourth. Also I have no Scalding Tarns but I can make substitutions. I didn't like that Jund DS had only 8 creatures where this deck has a veritable 12. I was going to pick up some Grim Flayers but haven't yet. I also really wanted to play with Snapcaster. Obviously this deck looks complex to pilot. Also I know it was hovering around "the best deck in modern" but with DS variants and the emergence of Jeskai Control, who knows.
FWIW I prefer Traverse DS (whatever the color combo) because it has more threats. Snapcaster Mage is not a threat. Traverse the Ulvenwald sometimes is. (Also, Flayer is good in Traverse Shadow, can confirm). Not that GDS is bad - you should definitely try it if you're interested in Shadow archetypes. They have slightly different strengths and weaknesses, so it's worth having experience with both so you can play the best positioned one on any given weekend. Or, you know, if you just want to cast Snapcaster Mage like any red blooded magic player, just play GDS
Also FWIW, 3 Snapcasters is a perfectly reasonable choice for GDS. They can be clunky, especially when drawn in multiples.
The version with 18 lands and 2 TBRs feels like a cheap rip-off of what used to be a highly flexible deck. This deck could really use some innovation into a different direction.
Short answer: Yes. My impression is that latest incarnation of Grixis Shadow tries to mimic 4C Shadow too much. It may be a meta call, I get it, then let's hope that the meta will change again soon. Because Grixis Shadow is not that good at playing 4C Shadow's game.
I have won many games against the "new" version of Grixis Shadow in the last couple of weeks. Sometimes they cantrip like crazy and get me scared for a moment. But usually they only manage to play one measly creature after eating my IOKs and Thoughtseizes, only to find out that one open mana is not enough to protect it. Then everything falls apart and they sit on a hand full of dead cards. Like a frantic child they try to dig for a threat again, only to find out that my deck has even more ways of disrupting their one trick pony game plan. With a greedy manabase of 18 lands and often just 4 Opts to "fix" it, without Traverse the Ulvenwald for situational tutoring, with delve creatures and Snapcaster Mages getting into each others' ways like they always did to some degree with this deck, there are so many things that can go wrong that something will often go wrong if the opponent's deck packs some disruption.
To me, the "new" Grixis Shadow feels as if somebody has looked at what was already the most fragile of all shadow decks and decided to turn into a full fledged glass cannon. OK, I'm exaggerating, but "new" Grixis Shadow has so far been much easier to beat for me than 4C Shadow because the deck is much less resilient. IMHO, many players who prefer an all out aggressive play style would be better off if they switched to 4C Shadow instead of trying to mimic what it does with a threat-light deck.
As for BGx decks they are good matchups for GDS except for Abzan so you don't need more help here.
I don't feel favored against Jund. It's a grind fest and if they manage to stick a Goblin Rabblemaster or LotV while 18-land-Shadow is frantically trying to fix its manabase, it can get ugly quickly.
I wouldn’t say Jund is a good MU, in the sense that you’re happy to play It all day, but it’s favorable for sure. Jund has the tools to play a longer game and the MU becomes a very strategic hoarding and timely use of resources.
Mana efficiency is the way to beat Jund, most of their plan doesnt get online until they can cast multiple spells a turn. LotV is their best shot, but having played both sides of the coin I believe Jund piloted correctly can have a strong GDS match. I jammed the Jund side vs GDS for a couple days testing for an event, and after the first few matches I realized what Jund needs to be doing in that MU.
GDS has to prioritize overloadin Jund very quickly, because once they can cast multiple spells Deaths Shadow becomes an almost worse version of Jund. 9-11 kill spells + discard vs a deck with ~8 threats isn’t the most favorable condition.
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In my eyes, Bitterblossom could be a good SB card in the right matchup, if not a 1-2 of in the MB:
- it's in the right color
- it helps attack from a different angle (go wide strategy and flying)
- it helps us to lose life for our DS
- but it can also act as a life-saving engine
- it improves control matchups
- it defends our threats against LotV
Let me know what you think!
Opponent no longer has to assemble a kill, just stay alive for a few turns until you kill your self.
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In particular, I find the shadow deck weak to LotV, Abrupt Decay and Lingering Souls.
I will often aggressively discard/Stub Lingering Souls. The tokens are really hard to beat if you don't draw something like LtlH or Staticaster, while you can come back from simply being down a card. But the best strategy against Abzan is to dodge it
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Its definitely not favourable. GDS is 100 % underdog in this matchup. Can confirm it from both sides.
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FWIW I prefer Traverse DS (whatever the color combo) because it has more threats. Snapcaster Mage is not a threat. Traverse the Ulvenwald sometimes is. (Also, Flayer is good in Traverse Shadow, can confirm). Not that GDS is bad - you should definitely try it if you're interested in Shadow archetypes. They have slightly different strengths and weaknesses, so it's worth having experience with both so you can play the best positioned one on any given weekend. Or, you know, if you just want to cast Snapcaster Mage like any red blooded magic player, just play GDS
Also FWIW, 3 Snapcasters is a perfectly reasonable choice for GDS. They can be clunky, especially when drawn in multiples.
I have won many games against the "new" version of Grixis Shadow in the last couple of weeks. Sometimes they cantrip like crazy and get me scared for a moment. But usually they only manage to play one measly creature after eating my IOKs and Thoughtseizes, only to find out that one open mana is not enough to protect it. Then everything falls apart and they sit on a hand full of dead cards. Like a frantic child they try to dig for a threat again, only to find out that my deck has even more ways of disrupting their one trick pony game plan. With a greedy manabase of 18 lands and often just 4 Opts to "fix" it, without Traverse the Ulvenwald for situational tutoring, with delve creatures and Snapcaster Mages getting into each others' ways like they always did to some degree with this deck, there are so many things that can go wrong that something will often go wrong if the opponent's deck packs some disruption.
To me, the "new" Grixis Shadow feels as if somebody has looked at what was already the most fragile of all shadow decks and decided to turn into a full fledged glass cannon. OK, I'm exaggerating, but "new" Grixis Shadow has so far been much easier to beat for me than 4C Shadow because the deck is much less resilient. IMHO, many players who prefer an all out aggressive play style would be better off if they switched to 4C Shadow instead of trying to mimic what it does with a threat-light deck.
Mana efficiency is the way to beat Jund, most of their plan doesnt get online until they can cast multiple spells a turn. LotV is their best shot, but having played both sides of the coin I believe Jund piloted correctly can have a strong GDS match. I jammed the Jund side vs GDS for a couple days testing for an event, and after the first few matches I realized what Jund needs to be doing in that MU.
GDS has to prioritize overloadin Jund very quickly, because once they can cast multiple spells Deaths Shadow becomes an almost worse version of Jund. 9-11 kill spells + discard vs a deck with ~8 threats isn’t the most favorable condition.
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!