Except the decklist isnt fully completed yet. Serum visions vs opt has not been solved, the mana base has not been solved, and kolaghans and terminate got cut from 2 of each to 1 of each. GDS isn't my main deck but I've had the deck built since its inception. I have never seriously played it because I have always thought the burn matchup was unacceptably bad against good burn players, and UB was the only way I could fix that.
Why not something like this:
MD:
1 Kolaghan's
0 Terminate
1 Dismember
2 Deprive
1 Steam vents
0 Blood Crypt
SB:
1 Blood Crypt
Whatever red spells you want
This allows you to get away with fetching Watery Grave - Watery Grave the vast majority of the time, which is the most important benefit of being mainly UB instead of "Grixis".
I really hesitated going to opt. I actually even hated opt the first few days of testing. I did notice when I switched back to serum my win rate was lower.
I think a deck like serum visions wants to play either the long game or tempo burn plan to set up longer. If you're jeskai desperate for an answer that's usually a bad sign. Shadow can play the long game against certain decks but I find it usually what's something good immediately or the next turn. Other control decks can use life as a resource taking the actual hits without walking a tightrope.
Give the opt a try s fee times, it'll take a bit to like but it grew on me
I think it's a really big deal you get to see the card before you draw it. I'm almost always in a situation where a land is either exactly what I need or the worst possible draw. While Serum Visions helps me filter more cards, Opt gives you more immediate value. Since the deck is playing like 12 fetches, you often get less value out of Serum Visions because you get forced to fetch and nullify the value it offers.
Opt is almost certainly better. The main reason is that we need our cantrips to have a high chance of finding lands on the turn we use it, which opt is much better at since the scry is before the draw. Also since it's instant speed, you can do it on upkeep. That's huge because it gives you the sequence of playing your disruption first, then casting opt on next turn's upkeep, rather than being forced to serum visions first and then losing value on your disruption.
The scry 2 is also not a true scry 2 since we fetch so so much in this deck. It's almost like comparing draw-scry1.5 vs scry-draw.
Hello, I've asked some advice a few pages back and the answers were great, thanks!
I've been playing with the deck and had some issues.
I find that somehow I'm low on threats, sometimes I can't find any creatures and my opponent recovers from hand disruption/removal and I'm always of course at lower life, wich leads me to desperate draw situations. Sometimes I can't recover from a single removal spell that I coulnd't counter or discard.
I was playing Grixis but given that my local meta is full of Eldrazi, others Shadow variants such as sultai, and control, I switched to Esper and it's been better for me, Lingering souls and Path to exile are just the cards I want for my meta. But I still like having access to red for the sweepers. What do you think of cards like Liliana, the last hope or Flamewake Phoenix mainboard to increase the number of threats? Thank you.
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"The sparkmage shrieked, calling on the rage of the storms of his youth. To his surprise, the sky responded with a fierce energy he'd never thought to see again."
Flamewake Phoenix seems bad. I know it's tempting as a recurring threat, but it's only recurred if you're winning. Better not to play it and to find something else as a threat, like Liliana or Young Pyromancer.
Lili Last Hope is good. She picks up dead creatures and shoots opposing creatures. She does everything you could want a permanent on the battlefield to do.
From my experience we are 45/55 vs Abzan pre board and about 50-50 post board since we get great answers with izzet staticaster and last hope. I've never played the GB Tron matchup so no comment there.
From my experience we are 45/55 vs Abzan pre board and about 50-50 post board since we get great answers with izzet staticaster and last hope. I've never played the GB Tron matchup so no comment there.
It is absolutely not 50/50, they grind way better; you're probably looking closer to a 35/65 matchup.
I'm not sure if everyone looks at the daily Wizards results but today was a great example of how the deck falls into analysis paralysis way too often. The top Grixis deck (which Wizards/Goldfish standings always differ) is as straightforward as it gets. My angler Denial heavy finished 10thish which is truly consistent in the right meta. Anyway I think it speaks to the core strength of GDS, panic over a few bad outings and meta aside there's not much to fix card wise.
I'm not sure if everyone looks at the daily Wizards results but today was a great example of how the deck falls into analysis paralysis way too often. The top Grixis deck (which Wizards/Goldfish standings always differ) is as straightforward as it gets. My angler Denial heavy finished 10thish which is truly consistent in the right meta. Anyway I think it speaks to the core strength of GDS, panic over a few bad outings and meta aside there's not much to fix card wise.
Congrats on the finish, for one!
No one was really panicking on this thread, except for one person who I think may be a little new to the deck. Shadow has over performed, if anything, in 2017.
Your 60 is kinda what I had in mind, except I'm playing the the 1x K-Command instead of the 4th Stubborn Denial.
I have lots of questions for you, if you're ok with answering them. Hoping you are since I see you made a new account
How are you feeling about not 1 but 2 temur battle rages? 5c color was maining this, do you feel this is right? How come Grixis has adopted this now, the meta isn't really any less interactive than it was before. Do you have any insight for this reasoning?
Why cut both copies of K-Command? Tron and Lantern are surging, wouldn't keeping one in feel good?
How were the 2x Young Pyromancers in the board? I've brought them in against the grindy matchups but how are they outside of the typical midrange and control matchups? When else are you bringing them in? I've brought them in against DnT for example, but is that even right? Are you cutting a gurmag anglar or something?
How did you feel without Liliana, the Last Hope or any real boardwipe outside of EE?
Opt has felt better than serum visions in this particular deck, I'm guessing you arrived at the same conclusion?
Any insight in the major matchups of when you're shaving Wraiths?
Haha, it's a lot of questions but I definitely like hearing from more experienced Grixis Shadow players.
How many Stubborn Denials have you been running MD and how many SB? On what kind of metagame it is better go with 3 MD and 1 SB and which ones do you think it is better to go 2-2 ?
okay, that makes sense. I've been out of Magic for a while so I wasn't 100% sure the reasoning but that makes sense
I played an event on Saturday with 19 and found I got flooded so many times, went 2 and 3 with most of my losses being due to flood. Which happens I guess
Why not something like this:
MD:
This allows you to get away with fetching Watery Grave - Watery Grave the vast majority of the time, which is the most important benefit of being mainly UB instead of "Grixis".
I think a deck like serum visions wants to play either the long game or tempo burn plan to set up longer. If you're jeskai desperate for an answer that's usually a bad sign. Shadow can play the long game against certain decks but I find it usually what's something good immediately or the next turn. Other control decks can use life as a resource taking the actual hits without walking a tightrope.
Give the opt a try s fee times, it'll take a bit to like but it grew on me
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
The scry 2 is also not a true scry 2 since we fetch so so much in this deck. It's almost like comparing draw-scry1.5 vs scry-draw.
I've been playing with the deck and had some issues.
I find that somehow I'm low on threats, sometimes I can't find any creatures and my opponent recovers from hand disruption/removal and I'm always of course at lower life, wich leads me to desperate draw situations. Sometimes I can't recover from a single removal spell that I coulnd't counter or discard.
I was playing Grixis but given that my local meta is full of Eldrazi, others Shadow variants such as sultai, and control, I switched to Esper and it's been better for me, Lingering souls and Path to exile are just the cards I want for my meta. But I still like having access to red for the sweepers. What do you think of cards like Liliana, the last hope or Flamewake Phoenix mainboard to increase the number of threats? Thank you.
Lili Last Hope is good. She picks up dead creatures and shoots opposing creatures. She does everything you could want a permanent on the battlefield to do.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
What about GB Tron vs Grixis Shadow?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
It is absolutely not 50/50, they grind way better; you're probably looking closer to a 35/65 matchup.
We are now playing opt and 1 kolaghan's command so 18 is the best number.
Congrats on the finish, for one!
No one was really panicking on this thread, except for one person who I think may be a little new to the deck. Shadow has over performed, if anything, in 2017.
Your 60 is kinda what I had in mind, except I'm playing the the 1x K-Command instead of the 4th Stubborn Denial.
I have lots of questions for you, if you're ok with answering them. Hoping you are since I see you made a new account
How are you feeling about not 1 but 2 temur battle rages? 5c color was maining this, do you feel this is right? How come Grixis has adopted this now, the meta isn't really any less interactive than it was before. Do you have any insight for this reasoning?
Why cut both copies of K-Command? Tron and Lantern are surging, wouldn't keeping one in feel good?
How were the 2x Young Pyromancers in the board? I've brought them in against the grindy matchups but how are they outside of the typical midrange and control matchups? When else are you bringing them in? I've brought them in against DnT for example, but is that even right? Are you cutting a gurmag anglar or something?
How did you feel without Liliana, the Last Hope or any real boardwipe outside of EE?
Opt has felt better than serum visions in this particular deck, I'm guessing you arrived at the same conclusion?
Any insight in the major matchups of when you're shaving Wraiths?
Haha, it's a lot of questions but I definitely like hearing from more experienced Grixis Shadow players.
I am not premium so I can't read it but there it is: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36337_Liliana-Sucks-And-Other-Observations.html
Just says he didn't like his decklist and being proactive in modern is a good thing
I like his articles about modern but you're not missing much on this one
I played an event on Saturday with 19 and found I got flooded so many times, went 2 and 3 with most of my losses being due to flood. Which happens I guess