First of all, with regards to the question about lists without Street Wraith, I don't play them because I often feel like the deck does not have a great density of threats and the card just does not really do anything for us with respect to that issue... Plus, Wraiths are the first thing we side out in most matches, so it seems like they are not absolutely necessary.
Strongly disagree here. First of all, Wraiths help us dig to our threats, help us get into range to cast our DSs, and help us cast our delve threats more reliably on turn 2. I used to play Grixis Delver, and it's very very hard to cast an Angler on turn 2, but I'm able to do that in this deck far more reliably, and that's not even to mention how easy they make casting Tasigurs on turn 2. And the only matchups you should be siding Wraiths out for are Burn and fast aggro decks. Wraith is super important against any deck where you need to kill them quickly, like Tron or Ad Nauseam. In grindy matchups you can actually hard cast Wraiths and they serve as a passable threat on their own.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
think wraiths being the general "first to sideout" cards is a mistake. it provides more deck consistency and furthers your plan wrt delve and deaths shadow. zoo or burn may be the only matchups that it's correct to side them out - 3/4 unpushable swampswalk threats are also a real thing
It was my first time playing it on paper. I didn't know that the deck would be pretty tiring to play because making a misplay or keeping a bad hand would really cost you a game.
You played really interesting matchups with interesting results can you elaborate more?
Is your list stock? How did you build your SB? Can you tell us how the matches went?
Hey my build has 4 IoK and Thoughtseize. I don't run any of the lili's. My sb's was not 100% complete i only had 3 fulminator 2 surgical 2 nihil 3 anger 1 kolaghan's 2 ceremonious rejection 1 collective brutality 1 terminate
[Round 1] 0 - 2 (VS BANT ELDRAZI)
This dude was very lucky i almost won both games but he top deck drowner of hope twice.
[Round 2] 2 - 0 Kuldotha Burn
This game was pretty easy you just have to mull for a death's shadow or a discarder.
[Round 3] 2 - 1 Naya Burn
Much harder than kuldotha burn but stubborn denial in hand and Death's shadow in play won me the game.
[Round 4] 2 - 1 Eldrazi Tron
I lost game 1 because he had tron online pretty fast.
game 2 was a close fight but i had 3 ds in play
game 3 he mulled to 5 and i countered his expedition map and it won me the game
I'll be moving k command to side and putting 2x surgical extraction main, with 2x side. Since I didn't have my street wraiths (mail) I played 4x surgical extraction main tonight. Helped a lot in games.
Hi all.
I've never played this deck but I played a lot of other Grixis variants.
I've read a lot about cutting down Lightning bolt (sound like breaking Magic first rule, you play red --> you play 4 lightnings), going down to 1 Kcomand... And this made me, think. Is it possible to completelly get rid of red? Change terminates, lightning bolts and Kcommand for Dismember, Collective buitallity, Rise//Fall? Is this pure nonsense? Is it just that playing 3 colors is so easy considering that we want to shock ourselves as much as possible?
Another question I have. Provided that Snapcaster is already good for midrange duties, does this deck need to play any K Command at all?
Thanks!
I wouldn't cut red, no. A lot of people are actually playing 4 color versions, so us being on just 3 colors are actually the conservative ones. And yeah, it's what you said. Playing 3 colors is no problem considering that we want to take damage from our lands. Kommand is just too good to cut. Every mode on it is relevant. I've been playing 2 in my 75 and actually want to go up to 3.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
super interesting list 5-0ing too. 4 color shadows.. with U>W. The thesis has to be that its grind game is good enough such that it would like help vs. combo. But the list reads like a list that'd get crushed by souls
_LLUKS_ (5-0)
LISTA DEL MAZZO STATISTICHE MANO DI ESEMPIO
ORDINA PER
Planeswalker (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatura (12)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Stregoneria (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Istantaneo (10)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Temur Battle Rage
Artefatto (4)
4 Mishra's Bauble
Terra (18)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
Tribale (2)
2 Tarfire
60 Carte
Sideboard (15)
2 Ancient Grudge 2 Anger of the Gods 2 Collective Brutality 2 Liliana, the Last Hope 1 Maelstrom Pulse 2 Nihil Spellbomb 3 Stubborn Denial 1 Surgical Extraction
If Wraithpk approves I'll add it to the primer. It would be good if we could reach a "consensus" about the Bolt and the Snapcaster issue and slam it there as well. It would be interesting to add a FAQ section instead of just a Street Wraith yes or no bit.
Fine with me.
On the other two issues, I think there are still enough matchups where Bolt is good that I wouldn't want to cut them completely. It's not as much as it used to be, but at worst you can "cycle" them to your opponent's face. I think 2 is the right number.
On Snapcaster, I could see running 3 if you're in an aggressive meta, but it's such an important piece to our grindy game that you'll be missing the 4th one whenever you play against Midrange or Control decks. I think 3 is the minimum, and only valid if you don't expect to run into many grindy matchups.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I feel like the people who wish to cut copies of Street Wraith are criminally underrating the card. The card is actually pretty skill intensive to be honest. You don't always dish it ASAP to draw a card. There's correct times to hold onto it and pair it with Serum Visions, or trying to blow out a player who gets greedy with bolts/red removal. You can also hard cast it, which is something that I have done on multiple occasions.
Also has anyone here tried running a 1 of dismember? I've been running 1 in my main alongside 1 Terminate and is has felt really good. The card has been pretty nice for me. Just wondering why a lot of lists aren't really running it. I find myself having trouble getting to at least 10 life sometimes and wished for more cards that would allow me to get there. I also don't like having to bolt myself to get there, that just feels really bad.
Also thoughts on Spell Snare in this deck? I know the version of this deck with delvers instead of Wraiths run 3-4 of it and Overturf has mentioned it's been amazing. The card is fantastic when you're on the draw and modern has a ton of targets for it. The only awkward thing I can see about it is how the presence of Fatal Push has essentially pushed it out of favor.
Deck is fun, deck is great and I haven't had this much fun playing a modern deck since Treasure Cruise Delver. And yes, I did also play Splinter Twin.
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
Do you guys think we can go down to 18 lands in this deck? I often feel I get land flooded, and with our 12 cantrips we should be able to go pretty low.
Thinking about picking up the missing pieces for this as my sweet Jund just doesn't seem to be a great choice for big tournaments right now.
What do you guys reckon, is this version here to stay? Are we close to settling on a 'final' configuration?
I'm playing this version because I don't have the ~$1,000 needed for goyfs and a BGx manabase. I think the Grixis configuration is very strong and very capable, but I've never played with the Jund version myself (only against). They seem very strong as well, but with different strengths and weaknesses. Most successful versions here are within 1-3 cards of each other main deck and the common differentiations are in sideboard choices. My sideboard seems to work great with my local meta as well as favoring my playstyle choices and background in Delver. It may or may not be the most correct choices, but it has served me well so far. I don't think there will be an absolute #1 perfect configuration with the meta still so wide.
Round 1 destroyed a kid playing some jank RG werewolves deck. He kept a bad hand game 1, game 2 he had an aggressive hand but I had disruption and beats
1-0
Round 2, i get destroyed by living end. game 1 I did okay, he just beat me. Game 2 i got aggressive by trying to stick a turn 2 Tasigur with hopes he didn't have spirit guide and he did. I've been having a problem with this match up, is this a bad matchup or is there any advice I can get?
1-1
Round 3 I 2-1 a budget RG 8whach deck, the kid is new and kept a bad hand game 1, he got there game 2 then we had a close game 3.
2-1
Round I 2-1 merfolk. Game 1 i had a slow start, was able to kind of recover but needed him to not draw into a 4th land to play his 2 master of waves in a row. Game 2 I believe he flooded and game 3 I have a lot of removal and was able to EE for 0 to kill his elemental tokens.
3-1
finished maybe 5th, got 3 packs of Amonkhet, which I traded for a pack of eternal masters and opened a mana crypt
so, TL;DR, still having problems with living end and don't know how I feel against merfolk. other decks are not too relevant because they were budget
I'm looking to convert from Jund DS, so I put together the below list based on what I've seen after some research. I love it, personally. What do you all think? How different is it to play this, for those who've played both decks? I've played plenty of Midrange decks, been on Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Jund, Junk, etc for a while now, but I'd like to get a good idea before I get practice in because I'm still trying to figure out what deck I'm bringing to GP Vegas.
Anyway, here's the list! Thanks for taking a look!
This may seem like a strange question; but I've been looking for a solid '50/50' deck like Jund or Abzan... that isn't Jund nor Abzan. A deck with a fair chance across the board that is not a flash in the pan. Is Grixis Death Shadow that deck, do you guys think? If so, could you tell me why?
This may seem like a strange question; but I've been looking for a solid '50/50' deck like Jund or Abzan... that isn't Jund nor Abzan. A deck with a fair chance across the board that is not a flash in the pan. Is Grixis Death Shadow that deck, do you guys think? If so, could you tell me why?
It could be. This deck hasn't a lot of free win/free loss. But you're unfavored in the Junk "mirror".
I look it as a good investment. Just getting into modern about 2 months ago, if Death Shadow gets banned or something, you have the basis for the Grixis Delver deck with not more money involved. In the meantime, I think the deck is very well placed to have competitive mathups against the entire field.
how do you guys find the Trawler KCI matchup? They seem to be way more resilient than I'd expected
Key cards to counter or kill ASAP are the two cards the deck is named for. It's easier said than done, I know.🤓 It's a lynchpin deck and just falls apart without those. Prioritize the actual Krark Clan Ironworks when you can. He can recur as much stuff he wants if he can't sac it. I prefer siding in 2 Surgical Extraction to try and get big stuff out of the way permanently and I keep all of my counters and discard. What's your main deck and SB configuration like?
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Strongly disagree here. First of all, Wraiths help us dig to our threats, help us get into range to cast our DSs, and help us cast our delve threats more reliably on turn 2. I used to play Grixis Delver, and it's very very hard to cast an Angler on turn 2, but I'm able to do that in this deck far more reliably, and that's not even to mention how easy they make casting Tasigurs on turn 2. And the only matchups you should be siding Wraiths out for are Burn and fast aggro decks. Wraith is super important against any deck where you need to kill them quickly, like Tron or Ad Nauseam. In grindy matchups you can actually hard cast Wraiths and they serve as a passable threat on their own.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Hey my build has 4 IoK and Thoughtseize. I don't run any of the lili's. My sb's was not 100% complete i only had 3 fulminator 2 surgical 2 nihil 3 anger 1 kolaghan's 2 ceremonious rejection 1 collective brutality 1 terminate
[Round 1] 0 - 2 (VS BANT ELDRAZI)
This dude was very lucky i almost won both games but he top deck drowner of hope twice.
[Round 2] 2 - 0 Kuldotha Burn
This game was pretty easy you just have to mull for a death's shadow or a discarder.
[Round 3] 2 - 1 Naya Burn
Much harder than kuldotha burn but stubborn denial in hand and Death's shadow in play won me the game.
[Round 4] 2 - 1 Eldrazi Tron
I lost game 1 because he had tron online pretty fast.
game 2 was a close fight but i had 3 ds in play
game 3 he mulled to 5 and i countered his expedition map and it won me the game
PS: IM PRO STREET WRAITH THAT CARD IS MVP MAN
I wouldn't cut red, no. A lot of people are actually playing 4 color versions, so us being on just 3 colors are actually the conservative ones. And yeah, it's what you said. Playing 3 colors is no problem considering that we want to take damage from our lands. Kommand is just too good to cut. Every mode on it is relevant. I've been playing 2 in my 75 and actually want to go up to 3.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
TWISTEDWOMBAT (5-0)
LISTA DEL MAZZO STATISTICHE MANO DI ESEMPIO
ORDINA PER
Creatura (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Stregoneria (10)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Istantaneo (15)
1 Censor
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
Terra (19)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
60 Carte
Sideboard (15)
1 Kolaghan's Command 2 Stubborn Denial 1 Terminate 2 Countersquall 2 Fulminator Mage 2 Kozilek's Return 2 Liliana, the Last Hope 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Temur Battle Rage
_LLUKS_ (5-0)
LISTA DEL MAZZO STATISTICHE MANO DI ESEMPIO
ORDINA PER
Planeswalker (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatura (12)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Stregoneria (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Istantaneo (10)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Temur Battle Rage
Artefatto (4)
4 Mishra's Bauble
Terra (18)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
Tribale (2)
2 Tarfire
60 Carte
Sideboard (15)
2 Ancient Grudge 2 Anger of the Gods 2 Collective Brutality 2 Liliana, the Last Hope 1 Maelstrom Pulse 2 Nihil Spellbomb 3 Stubborn Denial 1 Surgical Extraction
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Fine with me.
On the other two issues, I think there are still enough matchups where Bolt is good that I wouldn't want to cut them completely. It's not as much as it used to be, but at worst you can "cycle" them to your opponent's face. I think 2 is the right number.
On Snapcaster, I could see running 3 if you're in an aggressive meta, but it's such an important piece to our grindy game that you'll be missing the 4th one whenever you play against Midrange or Control decks. I think 3 is the minimum, and only valid if you don't expect to run into many grindy matchups.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Also has anyone here tried running a 1 of dismember? I've been running 1 in my main alongside 1 Terminate and is has felt really good. The card has been pretty nice for me. Just wondering why a lot of lists aren't really running it. I find myself having trouble getting to at least 10 life sometimes and wished for more cards that would allow me to get there. I also don't like having to bolt myself to get there, that just feels really bad.
Also thoughts on Spell Snare in this deck? I know the version of this deck with delvers instead of Wraiths run 3-4 of it and Overturf has mentioned it's been amazing. The card is fantastic when you're on the draw and modern has a ton of targets for it. The only awkward thing I can see about it is how the presence of Fatal Push has essentially pushed it out of favor.
Deck is fun, deck is great and I haven't had this much fun playing a modern deck since Treasure Cruise Delver. And yes, I did also play Splinter Twin.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
Edit: In reply to @oPoptartz
What do you guys reckon, is this version here to stay? Are we close to settling on a 'final' configuration?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I'm playing this version because I don't have the ~$1,000 needed for goyfs and a BGx manabase. I think the Grixis configuration is very strong and very capable, but I've never played with the Jund version myself (only against). They seem very strong as well, but with different strengths and weaknesses. Most successful versions here are within 1-3 cards of each other main deck and the common differentiations are in sideboard choices. My sideboard seems to work great with my local meta as well as favoring my playstyle choices and background in Delver. It may or may not be the most correct choices, but it has served me well so far. I don't think there will be an absolute #1 perfect configuration with the meta still so wide.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Round 1 destroyed a kid playing some jank RG werewolves deck. He kept a bad hand game 1, game 2 he had an aggressive hand but I had disruption and beats
1-0
Round 2, i get destroyed by living end. game 1 I did okay, he just beat me. Game 2 i got aggressive by trying to stick a turn 2 Tasigur with hopes he didn't have spirit guide and he did. I've been having a problem with this match up, is this a bad matchup or is there any advice I can get?
1-1
Round 3 I 2-1 a budget RG 8whach deck, the kid is new and kept a bad hand game 1, he got there game 2 then we had a close game 3.
2-1
Round I 2-1 merfolk. Game 1 i had a slow start, was able to kind of recover but needed him to not draw into a 4th land to play his 2 master of waves in a row. Game 2 I believe he flooded and game 3 I have a lot of removal and was able to EE for 0 to kill his elemental tokens.
3-1
finished maybe 5th, got 3 packs of Amonkhet, which I traded for a pack of eternal masters and opened a mana crypt
so, TL;DR, still having problems with living end and don't know how I feel against merfolk. other decks are not too relevant because they were budget
I'm looking to convert from Jund DS, so I put together the below list based on what I've seen after some research. I love it, personally. What do you all think? How different is it to play this, for those who've played both decks? I've played plenty of Midrange decks, been on Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Jund, Junk, etc for a while now, but I'd like to get a good idea before I get practice in because I'm still trying to figure out what deck I'm bringing to GP Vegas.
Anyway, here's the list! Thanks for taking a look!
4x Street Wraith
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Gurmag Angler
3x Fatal Push
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Lightning Bolt
4x Serum Visions
1x Spell Snare
2x Stubborn Denial
4x Thought Scour
4x Thoughtseize
1x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Dispel
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Collective Brutality
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Merfolk Wizards AKA "Wizards of the Coast"
I look it as a good investment. Just getting into modern about 2 months ago, if Death Shadow gets banned or something, you have the basis for the Grixis Delver deck with not more money involved. In the meantime, I think the deck is very well placed to have competitive mathups against the entire field.
Key cards to counter or kill ASAP are the two cards the deck is named for. It's easier said than done, I know.🤓 It's a lynchpin deck and just falls apart without those. Prioritize the actual Krark Clan Ironworks when you can. He can recur as much stuff he wants if he can't sac it. I prefer siding in 2 Surgical Extraction to try and get big stuff out of the way permanently and I keep all of my counters and discard. What's your main deck and SB configuration like?