Lists look good. Do you actually think Opt is better than Serum Visions in GDS? Because i think it's not even better than Sleight in GDS.
GDS doesn't work like a Delver deck, it works like a Jund deck with Delver if you will.
I can see the first list being a thing though. At least it work more on the principle of "Counters>Discard" so all the Opt being an instant thing actually serves some purpose.
My guess and bet is that, unless a more Delverish(less focused on grinding, more focused on Tempo) list becomes popular, Sleight will be the 3rd Cantrip of choice over Opt in classic GDS builds like todays. Serum Visions will still be a 4-of in every GDS build regardless of Opt being good or not.
How often do you guys find yourself running out of gas? I find myself running out quite a bit. I know Kommand, Snap and Lili are all options but they are all 3 or more mana. How about Chart a Course? The card refuels and is only 2 mana. The card gels a lot better with Young Pyromancer decks, but there is a chance that this could be a 2 of to help refuel. Worst case it's a 2 mana Sleight and best case it's a 2 mana Divination. What are your thoughts about the mini Treasure Cruise?
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Modern URBSome variant of Death's Shadow URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version) JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / Infect
How often do you guys find yourself running out of gas? I find myself running out quite a bit. I know Kommand, Snap and Lili are all options but they are all 3 or more mana. How about Chart a Course? The card refuels and is only 2 mana. The card gels a lot better with Young Pyromancer decks, but there is a chance that this could be a 2 of to help refuel. Worst case it's a 2 mana Sleight and best case it's a 2 mana Divination. What are your thoughts about the mini Treasure Cruise?
Seems bad to me. If you're attacking with a creature you're most likely already ahead. If you're behind you would much rather cast Opt or Serum Visions or any other cheaper cantrip so you have more mana left over to cast what you draw.
Hey Everyone. I was wondering if anyone has experience dropping Inquisition of Kozilek from their lists in favor of additional lightning bolts or Temur battle rages? I've seen a few lists drop inquisition entirely lately. How does the deck feel with less discard? In what metas would this be a good call?
Hey Everyone. I was wondering if anyone has experience dropping Inquisition of Kozilek from their lists in favor of additional lightning bolts or Temur battle rages? I've seen a few lists drop inquisition entirely lately. How does the deck feel with less discard? In what metas would this be a good call?
I tried, but it's really nice to have a turn one discard, or discard>>>>>shadow/tasigur/angler. 6 is a decent/tested number.And please no Temur Battle Rage MD you don't want them early in your hand, you don't want them without creatures, and you don't want them unless doing fatal damage.I'd rather have additional terminate to clear the way for an attack.
What do you guys think of main boarding collective brutality in the flexi slot? I been testing fine so far. At least it helps in some bad matchups. Clearing some creature early game in aggro matches. Taking away some removal by discarding from company, and control matches. Utilising all three mode vs burn in game 1 lol. Escalate helps throwing cards to graveyard for our delve fatties as well.
Finished 2-1 last night at our LGS. Round 1 Lost in 3 games against 8 rack. Round 2 Win in 3 games against Burn with Collective Brutality. Round 3 Win in 3 games against Affinity,Snapcaster MageKolaghan's Command is powerhouse with adjusted manabase. Deprive is really good against those 3 matches.
So I'm seriously starting to wonder what the correct number of lands in the deck is after some recent results. I only have results from an event yesterday, but this has been an ongoing trend. I'm currently playing 18 with 4 Serum, 4 Thought Scour, but I feel like it's wrong.
Yesterday, I played three rounds. I went 1-2 in matches and 4-4 in games. I mulliganed 4 times to 6 cards, and once to 5 cards. All of the mulligan hands were very reasonable. Of the mulligans, two were due to having only the Swamp in my hand, one was due to a bad hand (4 lands and nothing under 3 mana), and the remaining were due to too few lands.
Now, of my losses, one of them was due to me playing poorly, and I accept that one. The remaining three loses were due to flooding. One game, I had 12 lands (one was from a Path) and 5 non-land cards. I scooped with lands in my hand and unable to fetch since all the fetchable lands were in play.
It feels like I should be playing fewer lands and more filtering or something. I feel like flooding is a real problem for me and causing me to lose far too many games. I still flood in games I win sometimes, but it has been a concerning issue. I know I brought it up before but it's once again something I want to take a look at.
I get that the deck is very efficient and all, but the issue is that the flooding is contributing directly to losses. Drawing several lands in a row or a high volume over a period of turns is manifesting itself into results. Just yesterday, I scooped a game with multiple lands in my hand.
What I'm really trying to see is if there are ways I can alleviate that. Maybe I play certain cards that help deal with flooding. Maybe I cut lands and add cheap spells to alleviate needing multiple lands. I'm just trying to see if that's actually something to do. Perhaps shaving a land to play a copy of Opt is good. Perhaps changing out some cheap spells for more powerful, more expensive cards could alleviate this as well. I'm just here trying to see how I can manage this.
I get that the deck is very efficient and all, but the issue is that the flooding is contributing directly to losses. Drawing several lands in a row or a high volume over a period of turns is manifesting itself into results. Just yesterday, I scooped a game with multiple lands in my hand.
What I'm really trying to see is if there are ways I can alleviate that. Maybe I play certain cards that help deal with flooding. Maybe I cut lands and add cheap spells to alleviate needing multiple lands. I'm just trying to see if that's actually something to do. Perhaps shaving a land to play a copy of Opt is good. Perhaps changing out some cheap spells for more powerful, more expensive cards could alleviate this as well. I'm just here trying to see how I can manage this.
You can alleviate it by cutting lands and adding selection - opt or sleight. But you can't really go under 17 lands. And you also become more susceptible to mana denial, which is fairly prevalent right now. Mostly, I think this is a small sample size issue. You'll get a few matches in a row where you just flood out every now and then. If that doesn't happen, you're luckier than you deserve to be.
My question is mainly how does this deck function against mana denial? A single GQ can knock you completely out of Blue mana, and afaik there isn't any real way to defend against it. Eldrazi, Tron, Bears, Junk etc. all play GQ, and this list hinges pretty heavily on counterspells.
Does anyone have input on how to SB with this deck?
My question is mainly how does this deck function against mana denial? A single GQ can knock you completely out of Blue mana, and afaik there isn't any real way to defend against it. Eldrazi, Tron, Bears, Junk etc. all play GQ, and this list hinges pretty heavily on counterspells.
Does anyone have input on how to SB with this deck?
I think your questions may be better suited for the death's shadow aggro thread. However because it's both a death's shadow deck and a 5 color deck, there are definitely sacrifices to be made. Certainly a greedy mana base, but I think that the blue reliance is very minimal game 1, you likely just keep fetches up when you can against the gq match-ups. You don't risk milling your lands either due to the lack of thought scour, which is an occasional problem for grixis.
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--> Modern <-- RBUSplinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBU UUUMono U TronUUU GRGGR TronGRG GWURKnight FallGWUR
Thanks for the reply. I considered posting there, but I noticed the discussion was generally Jund-centric. I'll consult that thread as well.
So the idea is basically to keep your Watery Grave protected until it's absolutely necessary to counter a spell, rather than fetching for Blue asap and using Stubborn Denial as attrition (assuming you're concerned about GQ). This makes sense. It just seems like a huge risk, because a single LD effect can blank up to 8 cards in the deck. D:
I just picked up GDS for the 1st time. Playing at my LGS. I went 1-3. I played against mono-U Tron, Titanshift, Jund, and GDS (mirror).
I beat mono-U tron pretty handily.
I lost to Titanshift. G1, I had a handful of kill spells (dead cards) and couldn't get going. G2...I sided in LOTV, Blood Moon, and Surgical Extractions. I extracted his Primeval Titan, and Hour of Promise, LOTV controlled his hand and he still managed to win! My threats just wouldn't come.
G3 - Jund. He just took control. What are people's thoughts against this matchup? Feels 50/50 depending on who has the better draw. We have hand disruption and kill spells like they do. They have access to Scooze which hurts us pretty hard. is there a strategy to this matchup?
G4 - GDS mirror. I won g1, should have had g2, but my mind slipped and I lost the game. It was late and neither was getting prizes so we just drew the 3rd match.
I've never seen titanshift before (I don't get to play that often) how do we attack titanshift?
How often do you guys find yourself running out of gas? I find myself running out quite a bit. I know Kommand, Snap and Lili are all options but they are all 3 or more mana. How about Chart a Course? The card refuels and is only 2 mana. The card gels a lot better with Young Pyromancer decks, but there is a chance that this could be a 2 of to help refuel. Worst case it's a 2 mana Sleight and best case it's a 2 mana Divination. What are your thoughts about the mini Treasure Cruise?
My instincts say that if we really wanted Chart a Course then we would already be playing Night's Whisper (Whisper is also probably just better in the deck because aside from the possibility of fueling Delve we don't want to be stuck discarding). I understand the urge to have something cheaper but if the problem is running out of gas then 3 mana options are just as castable at that point in the game. Between Wraith, the front half of Visions, and Scour there are already enough blind draws in the deck, so even if Command and Snapcaster are more expensive the versatility and selection you get are very valuable.
i have trimmed a ceremonius rejection and a collective brutality in the side for 2 disdainful strokes.
They come in a lot of matchups as most of the haymakers in modern cast 4 and up.
Off the top of my head I know I side it in tron decks, titan decks, control decks and even a one of for corner case scenarios for gifts ungiven.
i have trimmed a ceremonius rejection and a collective brutality in the side for 2 disdainful strokes.
They come in a lot of matchups as most of the haymakers in modern cast 4 and up.
Off the top of my head I know I side it in tron decks, titan decks, control decks and even a one of for corner case scenarios for gifts ungiven.
Thanks for the reply. I considered posting there, but I noticed the discussion was generally Jund-centric. I'll consult that thread as well.
So the idea is basically to keep your Watery Grave protected until it's absolutely necessary to counter a spell, rather than fetching for Blue asap and using Stubborn Denial as attrition (assuming you're concerned about GQ). This makes sense. It just seems like a huge risk, because a single LD effect can blank up to 8 cards in the deck. D:
That is the tradeoff for trying to play 5 colors, and i'm sure it would come up against eldrazi tron and UWx control
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--> Modern <-- RBUSplinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBU UUUMono U TronUUU GRGGR TronGRG GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <-- BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
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GDS doesn't work like a Delver deck, it works like a Jund deck with Delver if you will.
I can see the first list being a thing though. At least it work more on the principle of "Counters>Discard" so all the Opt being an instant thing actually serves some purpose.
My guess and bet is that, unless a more Delverish(less focused on grinding, more focused on Tempo) list becomes popular, Sleight will be the 3rd Cantrip of choice over Opt in classic GDS builds like todays. Serum Visions will still be a 4-of in every GDS build regardless of Opt being good or not.
URB Some variant of Death's Shadow
URB Grixis Control (Chapin Version)
JFM Storm / Treasure Cruise Delver / Splinter Twin / InfectCommander/EDH
This pile of cards when I feel like it
Death's Shadow discord link
Seems bad to me. If you're attacking with a creature you're most likely already ahead. If you're behind you would much rather cast Opt or Serum Visions or any other cheaper cantrip so you have more mana left over to cast what you draw.
I tried, but it's really nice to have a turn one discard, or discard>>>>>shadow/tasigur/angler. 6 is a decent/tested number.And please no Temur Battle Rage MD you don't want them early in your hand, you don't want them without creatures, and you don't want them unless doing fatal damage.I'd rather have additional terminate to clear the way for an attack.
Yesterday, I played three rounds. I went 1-2 in matches and 4-4 in games. I mulliganed 4 times to 6 cards, and once to 5 cards. All of the mulligan hands were very reasonable. Of the mulligans, two were due to having only the Swamp in my hand, one was due to a bad hand (4 lands and nothing under 3 mana), and the remaining were due to too few lands.
Now, of my losses, one of them was due to me playing poorly, and I accept that one. The remaining three loses were due to flooding. One game, I had 12 lands (one was from a Path) and 5 non-land cards. I scooped with lands in my hand and unable to fetch since all the fetchable lands were in play.
It feels like I should be playing fewer lands and more filtering or something. I feel like flooding is a real problem for me and causing me to lose far too many games. I still flood in games I win sometimes, but it has been a concerning issue. I know I brought it up before but it's once again something I want to take a look at.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
What I'm really trying to see is if there are ways I can alleviate that. Maybe I play certain cards that help deal with flooding. Maybe I cut lands and add cheap spells to alleviate needing multiple lands. I'm just trying to see if that's actually something to do. Perhaps shaving a land to play a copy of Opt is good. Perhaps changing out some cheap spells for more powerful, more expensive cards could alleviate this as well. I'm just here trying to see how I can manage this.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
You can alleviate it by cutting lands and adding selection - opt or sleight. But you can't really go under 17 lands. And you also become more susceptible to mana denial, which is fairly prevalent right now. Mostly, I think this is a small sample size issue. You'll get a few matches in a row where you just flood out every now and then. If that doesn't happen, you're luckier than you deserve to be.
4 Mishra's Bauble
Creatures
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Fatal Push
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Basic Lands
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Temur Battle Rage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
1 Godless Shrine
My question is mainly how does this deck function against mana denial? A single GQ can knock you completely out of Blue mana, and afaik there isn't any real way to defend against it. Eldrazi, Tron, Bears, Junk etc. all play GQ, and this list hinges pretty heavily on counterspells.
Does anyone have input on how to SB with this deck?
I think your questions may be better suited for the death's shadow aggro thread. However because it's both a death's shadow deck and a 5 color deck, there are definitely sacrifices to be made. Certainly a greedy mana base, but I think that the blue reliance is very minimal game 1, you likely just keep fetches up when you can against the gq match-ups. You don't risk milling your lands either due to the lack of thought scour, which is an occasional problem for grixis.
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
So the idea is basically to keep your Watery Grave protected until it's absolutely necessary to counter a spell, rather than fetching for Blue asap and using Stubborn Denial as attrition (assuming you're concerned about GQ). This makes sense. It just seems like a huge risk, because a single LD effect can blank up to 8 cards in the deck. D:
I beat mono-U tron pretty handily.
I lost to Titanshift. G1, I had a handful of kill spells (dead cards) and couldn't get going. G2...I sided in LOTV, Blood Moon, and Surgical Extractions. I extracted his Primeval Titan, and Hour of Promise, LOTV controlled his hand and he still managed to win! My threats just wouldn't come.
G3 - Jund. He just took control. What are people's thoughts against this matchup? Feels 50/50 depending on who has the better draw. We have hand disruption and kill spells like they do. They have access to Scooze which hurts us pretty hard. is there a strategy to this matchup?
G4 - GDS mirror. I won g1, should have had g2, but my mind slipped and I lost the game. It was late and neither was getting prizes so we just drew the 3rd match.
I've never seen titanshift before (I don't get to play that often) how do we attack titanshift?
My instincts say that if we really wanted Chart a Course then we would already be playing Night's Whisper (Whisper is also probably just better in the deck because aside from the possibility of fueling Delve we don't want to be stuck discarding). I understand the urge to have something cheaper but if the problem is running out of gas then 3 mana options are just as castable at that point in the game. Between Wraith, the front half of Visions, and Scour there are already enough blind draws in the deck, so even if Command and Snapcaster are more expensive the versatility and selection you get are very valuable.
They come in a lot of matchups as most of the haymakers in modern cast 4 and up.
Off the top of my head I know I side it in tron decks, titan decks, control decks and even a one of for corner case scenarios for gifts ungiven.
Also Ad Nauseum
That is the tradeoff for trying to play 5 colors, and i'm sure it would come up against eldrazi tron and UWx control
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU