It's been apparent that the MTGO meta in the last month or so has been particularly hateful to Grixis Shadows, and this is like the exclamation mark. Think the critics claiming (wrongly, from the start) that Death's Shadow was oppressive and deserves bans are finally being silenced - this deck isn't oppressive nor is it unbeatable.
Now I think it's time for the deck to re-evolve. I'm thinking it starts with increasing the threat base that attacks from a different angle and growing into the Grixis Midrange point of the spectrum. Wouldn't go as far as recommending delver but wouldn't be surprised if we can do well dropping wraiths, add pyromancers, and changing the deck philosophy a bit
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
I have been Curious of the YP Lists, I think which you take can be personal preference to a degree and meta dependent.
In the same SCG tournament the highest placing Death's Shadow was a traditional build. With 18 lands and a single Slight of hands. So it seems the traditional build didn't get hated out to the point where a YP version would place higher.
Creatures (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Has someone tested the +1 Sleight -1 Blood Crypt build? I have a couple of games with it and from a mana base standpoint i haven't had any issues yet, which certainly feels good since you flood less often.
From the Danny Jessup list at the SCG Open, i only have trouble with 2 Flaying Tendrils and 2 TBR in the SB. I'm very close to taking a similar list to his to the GP but i fear that being non conventional comes back to bite me after a lot of rounds.
List for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/723542#paper
I seem to have the most trouble against Company decks. Not specifically Vizier, but mid-rangey builds with Knights, Gavony Townships, and Spell Quellers. And when they bring Reflector Mages out of the board, it gets much worse.
Is it a bad matchup or is it just me?
My usual boarding goes something like this:
+1 Liliana Last Hope
+2 Collective Brutality
-1 Thought Scour
-2 Inquisition
I've tried Flaying Tendrils off the board but they don't seem to do much as soon as they get a Township out. I also started experimenting with Temur Battle Rage to punch through all the blocking mana dorks.
I think cutting the crypt is better if you are moving away from anger of the gods. We are fetching watery grave x2 then blood crypt typically depending on the hand and everything else. But if you have 3 fetches you'll usually fetch that way.
Pros of keeping 12 fetches - doesn't reduce blue sources by 1. Still at 16 blue sources instead of 15 if you cut a fetch. Increases flexibility in putting the land in tapped or untapped because you can make that decision when you need to (comparing drawing the fetch or the shock). With the shock you have to make that decision before you know if you need to. The fetch allows you to control your life total better.
¿Hey guys I got a question, has anyone tried a single Bontu's last reckoning in the side against Eldrazis? I'm having a rough time against the deck (not so much against chalice but to reality smasher and the like).
¿Hey guys I got a question, has anyone tried a single Bontu's last reckoning in the side against Eldrazis? I'm having a rough time against the deck (not so much against chalice but to reality smasher and the like).
I use big game hunter. I Also use liliana of the veil
Hey guys, I have a card suggestion to make. Please don't shoot me if you don't like it. We could replace 4 Street Wraith with 4 Surgical Extractions. Both cards drain us 2 life. The benefit with Surgical is that we can remove staples from our opponent deck as soon as a card hits their graveyard (which isn't hard to do with our deck). Would like to hear your guys opinion on this change. I understand that Street Wraith replaces itself whilst Surgical doesn't. However, Surgical can remove up to 3 cards from their deck/hand.
Edit: It's also another Snapcaster target.
Wraith smooths out our draws, which allows us to run fewer lands. It makes Serum Visions much better and allows us to keep some normally sketchy hands. It also provides you with extra uses with K-Command and Liliana, the Last Hope from the side. It's also an all-star as a method to break board stalls against the mirror as just an unblockable beater.
Surgical Extraction is card disadvantage, it's useless against an opponent with an empty grave and is really only at it's best when you're extracting highly important cards that your opponent absolutely needs to function. I've even moved away from running them in the side. The card is solid, but it's more of a very specific answer for certain types of strategies than it is a mainboard card.
Hey guys, I have a card suggestion to make. Please don't shoot me if you don't like it. We could replace 4 Street Wraith with 4 Surgical Extractions. Both cards drain us 2 life. The benefit with Surgical is that we can remove staples from our opponent deck as soon as a card hits their graveyard (which isn't hard to do with our deck). Would like to hear your guys opinion on this change. I understand that Street Wraith replaces itself whilst Surgical doesn't. However, Surgical can remove up to 3 cards from their deck/hand.
Edit: It's also another Snapcaster target.
Wraith smooths out our draws, which allows us to run fewer lands. It makes Serum Visions much better and allows us to keep some normally sketchy hands. It also provides you with extra uses with K-Command and Liliana, the Last Hope from the side. It's also an all-star as a method to break board stalls against the mirror as just an unblockable beater.
Surgical Extraction is card disadvantage, it's useless against an opponent with an empty grave and is really only at it's best when you're extracting highly important cards that your opponent absolutely needs to function. I've even moved away from running them in the side. The card is solid, but it's more of a very specific answer for certain types of strategies than it is a mainboard card.
When I was waiting for my wraiths in the mail. I used 4x surgical extraction. It was okay. The wraiths made the deck so much better.
I agree with what you wrote regarding Wraith. Surgical has almost always a valid target, whether it's a fetch land they just cracked or a Path they just used to remove one of our threats. I have tested Surgical in the main instead of Wraiths and it has suprised me with it's efficiency. I will continue testing it more vs a broader range of matchups before I make my final verdict.
I agree with what you wrote regarding Wraith. Surgical has almost always a valid target, whether it's a fetch land they just cracked or a Path they just used to remove one of our threats. I have tested Surgical in the main instead of Wraiths and it has suprised me with it's efficiency. I will continue testing it more vs a broader range of matchups before I make my final verdict.
Valid target is different from "high impact" target are two different things though. Firing it off at whatever jank is in their graveyard is often not very useful in matches. Don't get me wrong; sometimes an early Surgical is a slam dunk against your opponent. You cast it, hit something nice in their grave and then find 1-2 more in their hand. Those few and far between moments feel pretty good, but half the time it sits in your hand, waiting for an opportune target.
It does do major work against Dredge and a handful of other decks, but against the entire field, it's better to just have consistency over a card that randomly hoses a deck sometimes and sometimes does nothing.
Valid target is different from "high impact" target are two different things though. Firing it off at whatever jank is in their graveyard is often not very useful in matches. Don't get me wrong; sometimes an early Surgical is a slam dunk against your opponent. You cast it, hit something nice in their grave and then find 1-2 more in their hand. Those few and far between moments feel pretty good, but half the time it sits in your hand, waiting for an opportune target.
It does do major work against Dredge and a handful of other decks, but against the entire field, it's better to just have consistency over a card that randomly hoses a deck sometimes and sometimes does nothing.
Agreed, I don't think main deck surgical is a good idea. The lists with pyro could potentially benefit from it as a much weaker cabal therapy. Even then, to act as cabal therapy you would have to have information of their hand via a discard spell and then they have to have multiples of that spell in hand. Otherwise if they only have the 1 copy in hand then the discard already did it's job and you're not getting any additional benefit other than the 1/1 token from pyro. Surgical is at its strongest when, as already mentioned, it's removing a key piece from the other deck. For example: a tron land (from gx tron), valakut, ad nauseam, living end, etc. You then cripple that deck and sometimes you'll just get a concession on the spot.
However against other decks it's nothing more than a mild inconvenience. If you're against jund for example and you go to exile their tarmogoyf from the graveyard and they reveal a hand containing Bob, removal spells and lili then you're gonna feel very silly since you just spent a card to deal with something that they haven't even drawn yet, which puts you at a disadvantage. Another example mentioned is against control and trying to exile path. Sure, got that out of the way but they still have verdict, blessed alliance, counter spells and planeswalkers. And that's if they even have targets for you in the first place, if there's a rip in play then surgical is actively dead weight since you can't even pay the 2 life to cast it to pump your shadow. Street wraith may not be the most impactful card in all matchups but because it cycles it's always guaranteed to do something and sometimes the body can be relevant.
if we want a resilient mirror breaking creature, how about Hazoret the Fervent? Not at all hard to get him online, and converts useless lands/thoughtseizes late game into damage.
Having been played this deck for 2 months. The deck is sweet but always flooded. Recently I made some big changes, namely replace Street Wraith with Sleight of Hand and try Young Pyromancer. Got couple of 4-1 in MO competive league. Any thoughts?
Having been played this deck for 2 months. The deck is sweet but always flooded. Recently I made some big changes, namely replace Street Wraith with Sleight of Hand and try Young Pyromancer. Got couple of 4-1 in MO competive league. Any thoughts?
and3h
I agree, it's hard to nail down the last couple of cards. I'd like to play a bolt but I don't know how to fit it in. They are rarely a dead card.
But people much smarter than me keep playing 3 stubs main so I'm going to defer to them whether it is right or wrong. I don't have the hours to back up my appreciation for bolt. I can kill the cards i need to post board with sweepers if I can draw them.
ctrl+f "colonnade"=5
ctrl+f "Death's shadow"=1
It's been apparent that the MTGO meta in the last month or so has been particularly hateful to Grixis Shadows, and this is like the exclamation mark. Think the critics claiming (wrongly, from the start) that Death's Shadow was oppressive and deserves bans are finally being silenced - this deck isn't oppressive nor is it unbeatable.
Now I think it's time for the deck to re-evolve. I'm thinking it starts with increasing the threat base that attacks from a different angle and growing into the Grixis Midrange point of the spectrum. Wouldn't go as far as recommending delver but wouldn't be surprised if we can do well dropping wraiths, add pyromancers, and changing the deck philosophy a bit
Creatures (15)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Street Wraith
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (18)
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
Spells (27)
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
I have been Curious of the YP Lists, I think which you take can be personal preference to a degree and meta dependent.
In the same SCG tournament the highest placing Death's Shadow was a traditional build. With 18 lands and a single Slight of hands. So it seems the traditional build didn't get hated out to the point where a YP version would place higher.
Creatures (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (18)
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
Spells (26)
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
2 Flaying Tendrils
From the Danny Jessup list at the SCG Open, i only have trouble with 2 Flaying Tendrils and 2 TBR in the SB. I'm very close to taking a similar list to his to the GP but i fear that being non conventional comes back to bite me after a lot of rounds.
List for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/723542#paper
Is it a bad matchup or is it just me?
My usual boarding goes something like this:
+1 Liliana Last Hope
+2 Collective Brutality
-1 Thought Scour
-2 Inquisition
I've tried Flaying Tendrils off the board but they don't seem to do much as soon as they get a Township out. I also started experimenting with Temur Battle Rage to punch through all the blocking mana dorks.
Any tips or suggestions?
Pros of keeping 12 fetches - doesn't reduce blue sources by 1. Still at 16 blue sources instead of 15 if you cut a fetch. Increases flexibility in putting the land in tapped or untapped because you can make that decision when you need to (comparing drawing the fetch or the shock). With the shock you have to make that decision before you know if you need to. The fetch allows you to control your life total better.
I use big game hunter. I Also use liliana of the veil
Wraith smooths out our draws, which allows us to run fewer lands. It makes Serum Visions much better and allows us to keep some normally sketchy hands. It also provides you with extra uses with K-Command and Liliana, the Last Hope from the side. It's also an all-star as a method to break board stalls against the mirror as just an unblockable beater.
Surgical Extraction is card disadvantage, it's useless against an opponent with an empty grave and is really only at it's best when you're extracting highly important cards that your opponent absolutely needs to function. I've even moved away from running them in the side. The card is solid, but it's more of a very specific answer for certain types of strategies than it is a mainboard card.
When I was waiting for my wraiths in the mail. I used 4x surgical extraction. It was okay. The wraiths made the deck so much better.
4x surgical main helps beat uw control
Valid target is different from "high impact" target are two different things though. Firing it off at whatever jank is in their graveyard is often not very useful in matches. Don't get me wrong; sometimes an early Surgical is a slam dunk against your opponent. You cast it, hit something nice in their grave and then find 1-2 more in their hand. Those few and far between moments feel pretty good, but half the time it sits in your hand, waiting for an opportune target.
It does do major work against Dredge and a handful of other decks, but against the entire field, it's better to just have consistency over a card that randomly hoses a deck sometimes and sometimes does nothing.
Main
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
3 Stubborn Denial
Sideboard:
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Stubborn Denial
Agreed, I don't think main deck surgical is a good idea. The lists with pyro could potentially benefit from it as a much weaker cabal therapy. Even then, to act as cabal therapy you would have to have information of their hand via a discard spell and then they have to have multiples of that spell in hand. Otherwise if they only have the 1 copy in hand then the discard already did it's job and you're not getting any additional benefit other than the 1/1 token from pyro. Surgical is at its strongest when, as already mentioned, it's removing a key piece from the other deck. For example: a tron land (from gx tron), valakut, ad nauseam, living end, etc. You then cripple that deck and sometimes you'll just get a concession on the spot.
However against other decks it's nothing more than a mild inconvenience. If you're against jund for example and you go to exile their tarmogoyf from the graveyard and they reveal a hand containing Bob, removal spells and lili then you're gonna feel very silly since you just spent a card to deal with something that they haven't even drawn yet, which puts you at a disadvantage. Another example mentioned is against control and trying to exile path. Sure, got that out of the way but they still have verdict, blessed alliance, counter spells and planeswalkers. And that's if they even have targets for you in the first place, if there's a rip in play then surgical is actively dead weight since you can't even pay the 2 life to cast it to pump your shadow. Street wraith may not be the most impactful card in all matchups but because it cycles it's always guaranteed to do something and sometimes the body can be relevant.
Having been played this deck for 2 months. The deck is sweet but always flooded. Recently I made some big changes, namely replace Street Wraith with Sleight of Hand and try Young Pyromancer. Got couple of 4-1 in MO competive league. Any thoughts?
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Steam Vents
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Tasigur the Golden Fong
2 Germag Angler
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Inquisition of Kozelik
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
2 Liliana the Last Hope
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 By Force
1 Pyroclasm
1 Izzet Staticaster
Since you don't run wraiths. I would try to fit a dismember. So that you can get a early shadow.
How's the eldrazi match up with this list?
I agree, it's hard to nail down the last couple of cards. I'd like to play a bolt but I don't know how to fit it in. They are rarely a dead card.
But people much smarter than me keep playing 3 stubs main so I'm going to defer to them whether it is right or wrong. I don't have the hours to back up my appreciation for bolt. I can kill the cards i need to post board with sweepers if I can draw them.
Good luck to you too!