My point was to MD those Terminates. Improve game 1 and you'll do a lot to improve the matchup. I'm not talking about SBing bolts out. I'm saying don't put them in your 75.
I think some number of Bolts is good to have in your 75, BoltSnapBolt is still a great combo. Its stock is pretty low as a removal spell right now, so I'm only running 2, which I think is the right number.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
how many of you guys play both the jund and grixis versions? I bit the bullet and bought the jund package just to see what it's like. I've played ~160 games on MTGO with grixis but only have a 55% win rate and feel like I've had to work hard for all of those wins. I've jammed 40 games with the Jund version so far and have won 2/3 matches (granted, small sample size) but have felt like this deck is more powerful and consistent. I appreciate that the grixis version has been posting a lot more 5-0s than the jund version recently, but instinctively I feel like the jund version has a higher power level. Thoughts?
I also think that Jund DS is superior to Grixis DS because of: Tarmogoyf as a consistent threat and wall against the right decks. Temur Batttle Rage against swarm and combo(it gives you the 'oops i win' which is super important in this format). Liliana of the Veil which single handedly beats decks like Ad Nauseam and Control. And lastly, Traverse the Ulvenwald which is very powerful and gives you a nice tool box plan post board.
Being said that, i think Grixis Shadow might be Modern's best blue deck and Snapcaster Mage is just a silly Magic card. Counter magic goes a long way in tandem with discard to protect yourself against almost anything(Not Supreme Verdict off the top for example). And with Jund being the deck to beat, playing 4 creatures that don't die to Fatal Push is the nail in the coffin for Grixis being a good deck and a fine choice just like Jund DS.
In conclusion, i think Jund is the better deck, but Grixis is almost as fine as Jund and are both fine choices in any given metagame.
PS: I don't play the Jund version but have tested it a few times.
I don't really understand all of the talk about Temur Battle Rage. It really only combos with Death's Shadow, and unlike Jund, we only have 4 in our deck. Our 12 threats are: 4 Shadow, 4 4/5 power delve creatures, and 4 Snapcasters. Without a Shadow, TBR looks really really bad. It works in Jund because goyf is routinely a 6/7 or bigger, and instead of Snapcaster they have Traverse. But even there, a lot of lists are cutting TBR altogether and running just 1 Ghor-Clan they can Traverse for.
Re: MDing Terminate and having enough removal / cheap removal. I've just not had problems with fast aggro decks, or at least not problems that would be solved by having 1-2 more 1 mana removal spells instead of the Terminates I'm running MD. Affinity gives me problems sometimes, but that is 100% because of Etched Champion. And postboard, I have plenty of removal against everying. 7-8 terminate + push, 2 LotV, 2 Brutality, and 1 K Return is a lot. If K Command is removal in the matchup, i have several of those too. Bolt + Snap + Bolt is pretty overrated in this deck. When you're attacking with 5/5s and 8/8s, the extra damage afforded by Bolt is far less important than, e.g., if you're attacking with a 3/2s and 2/1s. It hurts in a few matchups where they have a lot of chump blocks and can chump + still present a clock (I'm looking at you Dredge), but I think it's worth it.
I'm out on Temur Battle Rage as well - you need something like a Shadow that's 6/6 or greater to really get any juice out of it, and I'd rather not have a card that's completely dead until then. The Lightning Bolt vs. Terminate discussion is an interesting one. It's still hard for me to fathom having Snapcaster Mage and less than 4 Bolts in a Grixis deck, but that may be a holdover way of thinking. I still like having a bit of reach for when the opponent gums up the ground, but I will test with an eye toward how often I use the Bolt to close out games as opposed to removal.
But even there, a lot of lists are cutting TBR altogether and running just 1 Ghor-Clan they can Traverse for.
That is a absolutely not true. Speaking as a DSJ player, Ghor-Clan Rampager is the card which sees rarely play right now. TBR is a stock 2 of in DSJ. Reason being it can just steals games which is very important overall, Ghor Clan can't do that. I agree TBR is worse in Grixis, but its great in Jund and its not a card that gets cut.
But even there, a lot of lists are cutting TBR altogether and running just 1 Ghor-Clan they can Traverse for.
That is a absolutely not true. Speaking as a DSJ player, Ghor-Clan Rampager is the card which sees rarely play right now. TBR is a stock 2 of in DSJ. Reason being it can just steals games which is very important overall, Ghor Clan can't do that. I agree TBR is worse in Grixis, but its great in Jund and its not a card that gets cut.
Of the last 6 lists on mtggoldfish, 2 didn't have battle rage, so I'm walking that one back. A friend of mine had went the 0 TBR 1 GCR route and I probably extrapolated too much from talking to him.
I tried esper before I tried grixis, and I really didn't like it. Path is better than Terminate, but not a ton - giving them a land is a very real cost in the early game, and Path vs. Valakut is just often atrocious while Terminate does real work. And the white SB cards mostly don't work in the UB Shadow shell. No RiP, no Timely, etc. Stony is good though. I really missed having K Command as a swiss army knife that also grinds incredibly hard with Snapcaster Mage, and having access to red sweepers - either Kozilek's Return or Anger. Also, it's nice being a little better vs. Blood Moon.
That said, Esper certainly has some better matchups than Grixis, but Snap + K Command is a really strong argument for sticking with red.
Round 1 I get an easy win despite making my only really bad punt game 2. game 1 He doesn't pressure me much. Game 2 Could have gone much worse because of a punt, where I could have killed him a turn earlier. basically, what happened was I was at 1 and he was tapped out, don't remember what his life was I cast a collective brutality main phase one, choosing to drain him (bringing me to 3). I then swing with my shadow and something else. Bolt hims second main. so he was at 1. so I should have waited for the brutality and now I needed him to not draw anything, which he didn't. Played bad and got lucky.
1-0
Round 2 I 2-1 a deck that appeared just to be a port of a standard RB aggro deck with bolts. Played too aggressive game 1 and got punished. Game 2 he kept a slow hand and got punished. Game 3 he didn't read death's shadow well enough and didn't keep blockers back, so i fetched and shocked a land in for the win
2-0
game 3 i get paired against titanshift. Game 1 I tore his hand apart early. I cast a ferocious stubborn denial on his green pact to put a nail in the coffin and then killed him on my next turn. Game 2 he mulled to 5 and i had double fulms to really stop him.
3-0, at this point I was able to draw my next round to almost guarantee top 4.
round 4 I draw with living end, as he's also 3-0.
3-0-1
top 4 was a clear cut round 5, so I draw with elves.
3-0-2 and I think second seed, as I had the chocie of play/draw in top 4 but he did in the finals.
in the top 4 I beat the elf player I drew with round 5. game 1 I tore her hand apart while killing early dorks. the game got to the point where she had a reasomnable board state so she swong with 2 or 3 creatures, leaving back a nettle sentinel and a spellskite, I had a bolt in hand and top deck a k command, which i use to shock the sentinel and shatter the skite, in order to bait her into paying 2 life to redirect to the skite, which she does, bringing her to just the right for lethal, so i bolt the sentinel and swing in. game 2 she mulls to 5 and I tear apart her hand with hand disruption and use Liliana the last hope to kill her creatures.
the finals were pretty bad, almost had him game 1 but couldn't get there, then got destroyed game 2
think this is spooly's list with IoK<leak. how has leak worked out for you? and molten rain>fulminator? curious what matchups you bring in the molten rain for other than the obvious valakut/eldrazi matchups
SPOOLINATOR (5-0)
DECKLIST STATS SAMPLE HAND
SORT BY:
Creature (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Instant (17)
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
Land (19)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Stubborn Denial 1 Terminate 2 Ceremonious Rejection 2 Collective Brutality 2 Dispel 1 Kozilek's Return 3 Molten Rain 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Threads of Disloyalty
think this is spooly's list with IoK<leak. how has leak worked out for you? and molten rain>fulminator? curious what matchups you bring in the molten rain for other than the obvious valakut/eldrazi matchups
SPOOLINATOR (5-0)
DECKLIST STATS SAMPLE HAND
SORT BY:
Creature (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Instant (17)
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
Land (19)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Stubborn Denial 1 Terminate 2 Ceremonious Rejection 2 Collective Brutality 2 Dispel 1 Kozilek's Return 3 Molten Rain 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Threads of Disloyalty
Haha, that is my list. I haven't acquired Liliana of the Veil or Surgical Extraction online yet because I'm cheap, and I was just trying out the Molten Rains. Also, I accidentally registered 2 Steam Vents instead of 2 Blood Crypt. And some of the other slots were, again, just me trying some things out.
I tried bringing Molten Rain in vs UWR Nahiri and didn't see one, but controllish decks with planeswalkers you want to pressure are matchups I'd think about bringing Molten Rain in. Killing a land and doming Nahiri for 2 seems like a good idea anyway. In general, I wasn't really impressed with them, and I cut them after that league. Part of the motivation for trying them instead of Fulminators is that I recently lost a match at an IQ vs. GR Ponza where Fulminator would have had a minimal impact, but Molten Rain could have nailed a Forest with Utopia Sprawl on it. I don't have much experience with the LD in the SB yet, but so far it has felt very medium.
Leak has been pretty good for me. Unlike Delver, this Grixis deck can close extremely quickly, so Mana Leak is more likely to have a strong impact on the game. And Mana Leak over more discard gives you plenty of percentage points in lots of random matchups because Mana Leak can beat the top of their deck, and IoK can't take something like Primeval Titan anyway. Plus, common knowledge is to board in Leyline of Sanctity in against Shadow lists, and if all of your interaction is discard, you can be in trouble. I've tried mixing in Spell Snare as well, but I prefer the generic interaction that Leak provides. Stubborn Denial is enough narrow-but-powerful countermagic. But I'd change my mind quick if I expected to play against a bunch of snapcaster mages.
Btw, Leak is another reason I like Grixis over Esper. Esper's Leaks are much worse because of Path, and I really like Leak in this shell. While I'm on this topic, I didn't like Lingering Souls in Esper builds either, even though that's supposed to be one of the draws of the color combo. Snapcaster helps your grind well enough, and Souls doesn't help you with your problematic matchups. Plus Souls is soooo slow. Stony Silence is really the only white card I actively want to play UB Shadow shells, and I don't think that's enough to justify switching colors. Now if you don't want to play Mana Leak, then Path looks a little better and the decision is closer since the main draws of red are better leaks and K Command. I still think it favors Grixis, but I'm not as certain about it.
Back to my list - I was just trying the 1 Threads of Disloyalty since I didn't want to buy LotV. It was surprisingly very good vs. Jund Shadow despite him seeing it in my opener. He tried to play around it, but he was forced to use his Decays on Shadows. Small sample size so I'm not saying Threads should be a go to card or anything, and it's still pretty suspicious bringing it in vs a deck that has Abrupt Decay, but there might be something there.
nice. I'm still not convinced that 3 mana LD spells are the way to go in a shadows shell. the 2 damage could be meaningful but personally I think snapcasters have better things to be recurring and fulminator synergizes still with kcommand/last hope, hence my curiosity.
May try Leak personally - I've been very close to cutting bolts altogether, perhaps for more MD terminates or leaks. Bolts still hit a lot of important creatures (birds, hierarch, all elves, overseer, confidant, displacer, creatures in burn/storm etc.). In the last bit I've felt like the 'reach' has more been theoretical and practice though and have wished the bolts be terminates, but that may just be a sample size thing, as the online meta is infested with shadows/eldrazi decks. Plus leak would be a surprise to most people from grixis shadows
I've tried Threads and have really liked it when it works but it just seems too narrow. and as you said you could get blown out against decay/pulse decks. Think I'd prefer staying hard threat/answer dense instead
Also I'm curious what people here's thoughts are re: sideboarding vs jund/grixis (both midrange/control and shadows variants). I've only played combo previously so this midrange grind mentality is a new one for me. It's been accepted that in Jund mirrors you take out all your discards because invariably, you will trade threats with answers to the point where it's a top deck war.
I was playing a Grixis Shadows mirror (I did see a Flooded Strand indicating a white splash) and I left in all of my discards which my opponent questioned. My logic was that at least vs. the Grixis variants there are powerful reactive cards (push, terminate) as well as planeswalkers (that we do not have great answers for) that I think discards are worth keeping in for. For example, I played a pretty stock Grixis Shadows MD with the exception of 1 Battle Rage main, with the following side board:
2x Ceremonial Rejection
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Collective Brutality
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Terminate (1 terminate MD)
1x Fatal Push (3 fatal pushes MD)
2x Nihil Spellbombs
and I sideboarded as such:
-1 Kolaghan's Command
-1 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Lightning Bolt
-1 Thought Scour
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Terminate
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Stubborn Denial
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
Thoughts? Looking back though, I think I would not cut Street Wraith in any jund/grixis matchups for its ability to provide threat/answer density as well as occasionally being a game-winning swampwalker (as FlyingDelver alluded to). I may cut a few IoKs next time instead, or even Denial, as there is an argument to make your deck as threat/direct answer dense as possible. Denial answers their answers, but is an awful top deck so I can see the argument for taking them out. Thoughts?
Been getting wrecked by burn. I played a version today that had at least 2 deflecting palms in the main deck. Everything Grixis shadow is trying to do plays right into their game plan. 2 collective brutality and a couple of extra counterspells seems hardly enough, but I hate to devote any more slots to a deck I have seen infrequently. But when I do, it is almost a concession on the spot. I am relatively new to modern, but I guess this is just an example of hoping to dodge the matchup.
Thanks for the tips. The aggressive mulligan is something I have yet to properly embrace in Modern. Especially with this deck in particular, you are hard pressed to find an unplayable opening hand, but I can see how some would be less than optimal considering the matchup.
On mulligans (a naturally very important topic), what are y'all's standards for hands? Usually, I'm looking for 2 lands, maybe 3, either discard or a Cantrip on turn 1, and a threat. It takes an awesome hand that's great for the matchup for me to keep a hand with no threats. I feel as though I need to have one always. Any thoughts?
Also, Leak is something I had honestly not thought about before. Very interesting. Seems solid to me. Don't know what to cut for them though, as I honestly have a certain affinity for Lightning Bolt. Just love that card, always have. Currently on 2 bolts, recently cut the 3rd for the 1st terminate main. That's helped my Eldrazi matchup, which is nice.
So I'm in Georgia, and Star City is coming here for an Open 2 weeks from yesterday. I'm going to play in the Modern classic, and I'm super excited for it! Anyone else going to be there?
Private Mod Note
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How I like to win games:
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
In my opinion, Mana Leak works way better in a Delver Shadow Shell. Sometimes I play Grixis/Esper Delver Shadow too, and Mana Leak is actually good when you can deploy a turn 1/2 threat more consistently. It's a fine card, but in the classic Shadow shell I prefer more discards, because you usually have to compensate the absence of turn 1/2 plays with more actions in the same turn.
But then you have to play Delver of Secrets, which is unplayable in modern. Honestly, I think Leak is at its best in modern in the Grixis Shadow lists. Closing speed is what matters the most, and Delver of Secrets does not close fast. Even if it flips quickly.
Back to my list - I was just trying the 1 Threads of Disloyalty since I didn't want to buy LotV. It was surprisingly very good vs. Jund Shadow despite him seeing it in my opener. He tried to play around it, but he was forced to use his Decays on Shadows.
I don't get it. You meant "Fatal Push" instead of "Abrupt Decay" maybe? Anyway, I think it's a fine sideboard card to have. The only issue is: it's focused mainly to fight the mirror. Against things like Affinity or Bant Eldrazi is pretty disgusting, and you probably want to have just one additional removal on its slot.
Abrupt Decay can target enchantments.
Been getting wrecked by burn. I played a version today that had at least 2 deflecting palms in the main deck. Everything Grixis shadow is trying to do plays right into their game plan. 2 collective brutality and a couple of extra counterspells seems hardly enough, but I hate to devote any more slots to a deck I have seen infrequently. But when I do, it is almost a concession on the spot. I am relatively new to modern, but I guess this is just an example of hoping to dodge the matchup.
vs burn i usually end up having more bad cards than good and do keep some thought seizes for paths/palms personally
I'll add to the chorus here: the matchup should be about 50/50, just aggressively mulligan for a clock. Thoughtseizes stay in because what else are you going to play in that slot? And like everyone said, taking a Palm/Path/Eidolon is very good. This is a matchup where having more countermagic helps you, but it doesn't drastically turn the matchup or anything.
You said "he was forced to use Decay on Shadow". Maybe you intended on your own Shadow, instead of the one snatched away from him? It's a bit confusing.
I think some number of Bolts is good to have in your 75, BoltSnapBolt is still a great combo. Its stock is pretty low as a removal spell right now, so I'm only running 2, which I think is the right number.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Being said that, i think Grixis Shadow might be Modern's best blue deck and Snapcaster Mage is just a silly Magic card. Counter magic goes a long way in tandem with discard to protect yourself against almost anything(Not Supreme Verdict off the top for example). And with Jund being the deck to beat, playing 4 creatures that don't die to Fatal Push is the nail in the coffin for Grixis being a good deck and a fine choice just like Jund DS.
In conclusion, i think Jund is the better deck, but Grixis is almost as fine as Jund and are both fine choices in any given metagame.
PS: I don't play the Jund version but have tested it a few times.
Re: MDing Terminate and having enough removal / cheap removal. I've just not had problems with fast aggro decks, or at least not problems that would be solved by having 1-2 more 1 mana removal spells instead of the Terminates I'm running MD. Affinity gives me problems sometimes, but that is 100% because of Etched Champion. And postboard, I have plenty of removal against everying. 7-8 terminate + push, 2 LotV, 2 Brutality, and 1 K Return is a lot. If K Command is removal in the matchup, i have several of those too. Bolt + Snap + Bolt is pretty overrated in this deck. When you're attacking with 5/5s and 8/8s, the extra damage afforded by Bolt is far less important than, e.g., if you're attacking with a 3/2s and 2/1s. It hurts in a few matchups where they have a lot of chump blocks and can chump + still present a clock (I'm looking at you Dredge), but I think it's worth it.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
That is a absolutely not true. Speaking as a DSJ player, Ghor-Clan Rampager is the card which sees rarely play right now. TBR is a stock 2 of in DSJ. Reason being it can just steals games which is very important overall, Ghor Clan can't do that. I agree TBR is worse in Grixis, but its great in Jund and its not a card that gets cut.
Of the last 6 lists on mtggoldfish, 2 didn't have battle rage, so I'm walking that one back. A friend of mine had went the 0 TBR 1 GCR route and I probably extrapolated too much from talking to him.
That said, Esper certainly has some better matchups than Grixis, but Snap + K Command is a really strong argument for sticking with red.
Round 1 I get an easy win despite making my only really bad punt game 2. game 1 He doesn't pressure me much. Game 2 Could have gone much worse because of a punt, where I could have killed him a turn earlier. basically, what happened was I was at 1 and he was tapped out, don't remember what his life was I cast a collective brutality main phase one, choosing to drain him (bringing me to 3). I then swing with my shadow and something else. Bolt hims second main. so he was at 1. so I should have waited for the brutality and now I needed him to not draw anything, which he didn't. Played bad and got lucky.
1-0
Round 2 I 2-1 a deck that appeared just to be a port of a standard RB aggro deck with bolts. Played too aggressive game 1 and got punished. Game 2 he kept a slow hand and got punished. Game 3 he didn't read death's shadow well enough and didn't keep blockers back, so i fetched and shocked a land in for the win
2-0
game 3 i get paired against titanshift. Game 1 I tore his hand apart early. I cast a ferocious stubborn denial on his green pact to put a nail in the coffin and then killed him on my next turn. Game 2 he mulled to 5 and i had double fulms to really stop him.
3-0, at this point I was able to draw my next round to almost guarantee top 4.
round 4 I draw with living end, as he's also 3-0.
3-0-1
top 4 was a clear cut round 5, so I draw with elves.
3-0-2 and I think second seed, as I had the chocie of play/draw in top 4 but he did in the finals.
in the top 4 I beat the elf player I drew with round 5. game 1 I tore her hand apart while killing early dorks. the game got to the point where she had a reasomnable board state so she swong with 2 or 3 creatures, leaving back a nettle sentinel and a spellskite, I had a bolt in hand and top deck a k command, which i use to shock the sentinel and shatter the skite, in order to bait her into paying 2 life to redirect to the skite, which she does, bringing her to just the right for lethal, so i bolt the sentinel and swing in. game 2 she mulls to 5 and I tear apart her hand with hand disruption and use Liliana the last hope to kill her creatures.
the finals were pretty bad, almost had him game 1 but couldn't get there, then got destroyed game 2
SPOOLINATOR (5-0)
DECKLIST STATS SAMPLE HAND
SORT BY:
Creature (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery (8)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Instant (17)
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Mana Leak
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
Land (19)
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Stubborn Denial 1 Terminate 2 Ceremonious Rejection 2 Collective Brutality 2 Dispel 1 Kozilek's Return 3 Molten Rain 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Threads of Disloyalty
Haha, that is my list. I haven't acquired Liliana of the Veil or Surgical Extraction online yet because I'm cheap, and I was just trying out the Molten Rains. Also, I accidentally registered 2 Steam Vents instead of 2 Blood Crypt. And some of the other slots were, again, just me trying some things out.
I tried bringing Molten Rain in vs UWR Nahiri and didn't see one, but controllish decks with planeswalkers you want to pressure are matchups I'd think about bringing Molten Rain in. Killing a land and doming Nahiri for 2 seems like a good idea anyway. In general, I wasn't really impressed with them, and I cut them after that league. Part of the motivation for trying them instead of Fulminators is that I recently lost a match at an IQ vs. GR Ponza where Fulminator would have had a minimal impact, but Molten Rain could have nailed a Forest with Utopia Sprawl on it. I don't have much experience with the LD in the SB yet, but so far it has felt very medium.
Leak has been pretty good for me. Unlike Delver, this Grixis deck can close extremely quickly, so Mana Leak is more likely to have a strong impact on the game. And Mana Leak over more discard gives you plenty of percentage points in lots of random matchups because Mana Leak can beat the top of their deck, and IoK can't take something like Primeval Titan anyway. Plus, common knowledge is to board in Leyline of Sanctity in against Shadow lists, and if all of your interaction is discard, you can be in trouble. I've tried mixing in Spell Snare as well, but I prefer the generic interaction that Leak provides. Stubborn Denial is enough narrow-but-powerful countermagic. But I'd change my mind quick if I expected to play against a bunch of snapcaster mages.
Btw, Leak is another reason I like Grixis over Esper. Esper's Leaks are much worse because of Path, and I really like Leak in this shell. While I'm on this topic, I didn't like Lingering Souls in Esper builds either, even though that's supposed to be one of the draws of the color combo. Snapcaster helps your grind well enough, and Souls doesn't help you with your problematic matchups. Plus Souls is soooo slow. Stony Silence is really the only white card I actively want to play UB Shadow shells, and I don't think that's enough to justify switching colors. Now if you don't want to play Mana Leak, then Path looks a little better and the decision is closer since the main draws of red are better leaks and K Command. I still think it favors Grixis, but I'm not as certain about it.
Back to my list - I was just trying the 1 Threads of Disloyalty since I didn't want to buy LotV. It was surprisingly very good vs. Jund Shadow despite him seeing it in my opener. He tried to play around it, but he was forced to use his Decays on Shadows. Small sample size so I'm not saying Threads should be a go to card or anything, and it's still pretty suspicious bringing it in vs a deck that has Abrupt Decay, but there might be something there.
May try Leak personally - I've been very close to cutting bolts altogether, perhaps for more MD terminates or leaks. Bolts still hit a lot of important creatures (birds, hierarch, all elves, overseer, confidant, displacer, creatures in burn/storm etc.). In the last bit I've felt like the 'reach' has more been theoretical and practice though and have wished the bolts be terminates, but that may just be a sample size thing, as the online meta is infested with shadows/eldrazi decks. Plus leak would be a surprise to most people from grixis shadows
I've tried Threads and have really liked it when it works but it just seems too narrow. and as you said you could get blown out against decay/pulse decks. Think I'd prefer staying hard threat/answer dense instead
I was playing a Grixis Shadows mirror (I did see a Flooded Strand indicating a white splash) and I left in all of my discards which my opponent questioned. My logic was that at least vs. the Grixis variants there are powerful reactive cards (push, terminate) as well as planeswalkers (that we do not have great answers for) that I think discards are worth keeping in for. For example, I played a pretty stock Grixis Shadows MD with the exception of 1 Battle Rage main, with the following side board:
2x Ceremonial Rejection
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Collective Brutality
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Terminate (1 terminate MD)
1x Fatal Push (3 fatal pushes MD)
2x Nihil Spellbombs
and I sideboarded as such:
-1 Kolaghan's Command
-1 Temur Battle Rage
-2 Street Wraith
-2 Lightning Bolt
-1 Thought Scour
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Terminate
+2 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Stubborn Denial
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
Thoughts? Looking back though, I think I would not cut Street Wraith in any jund/grixis matchups for its ability to provide threat/answer density as well as occasionally being a game-winning swampwalker (as FlyingDelver alluded to). I may cut a few IoKs next time instead, or even Denial, as there is an argument to make your deck as threat/direct answer dense as possible. Denial answers their answers, but is an awful top deck so I can see the argument for taking them out. Thoughts?
Also, Leak is something I had honestly not thought about before. Very interesting. Seems solid to me. Don't know what to cut for them though, as I honestly have a certain affinity for Lightning Bolt. Just love that card, always have. Currently on 2 bolts, recently cut the 3rd for the 1st terminate main. That's helped my Eldrazi matchup, which is nice.
So I'm in Georgia, and Star City is coming here for an Open 2 weeks from yesterday. I'm going to play in the Modern classic, and I'm super excited for it! Anyone else going to be there?
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
But then you have to play Delver of Secrets, which is unplayable in modern. Honestly, I think Leak is at its best in modern in the Grixis Shadow lists. Closing speed is what matters the most, and Delver of Secrets does not close fast. Even if it flips quickly.
Abrupt Decay can target enchantments.
I'll add to the chorus here: the matchup should be about 50/50, just aggressively mulligan for a clock. Thoughtseizes stay in because what else are you going to play in that slot? And like everyone said, taking a Palm/Path/Eidolon is very good. This is a matchup where having more countermagic helps you, but it doesn't drastically turn the matchup or anything.
Yes.