Do you need the 4'th fatal push in the SB? When are you bringing it in, and how impactful is it? The primer's "stock" decklist doesn't have the push in the SB in the white splash version, and I agree that you don't need it when you have the more impactful white cards instead.
Push is definitely a good card. But we have a lot of hand disruption to get rid of threats, and our threats are usually bigger than theirs, so IMO we don't need 4. Push is also a somewhat mediocre SB card if you have the white splash.
3/2 push/decay MB, 0/0 SB seems totally fine. And push doesn't sound very good in the meta you described anyway.
Push is definitely a good card. But we have a lot of hand disruption to get rid of threats, and our threats are usually bigger than theirs, so IMO we don't need 4. Push is also a somewhat mediocre SB card if you have the white splash.
3/2 push/decay MB, 0/0 SB seems totally fine. And push doesn't sound very good in the meta you described anyway.
Well, it's just the mtgo meta. The top decks in the last week or two have been Affinity, Storm, Eldrazi Tron, Jund DS, Burn, and Dredge. So you think the 2nd Decay is worth it over the 4th Push?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
The problem though is that dismember gets turned "off" and becomes a 3 mana removal a lot in this deck. When it's good, it's great, but when it's bad, it's really really bad.
Okay so after some testing against tron and valacut I finally occurred to me that Fulminator was amazing and I couldn't believe I had been so stupid as to not put it in before. Here is my current list:
I've noticed recently that liliana of the veil is much better against a lot of decks where last hope is more niche against certain archetypes. I've had a lot of trouble vs UW control was wondering what others have done to help in this matchup. Any suggestions for main or side are appreciated. Is kataki good over Grudge? Is painful truths a good addition if so where? Do I still need spellbomb in side it's nice vs gy decks but I've been a bit underwhelmed by it recently. Thanks!
Went to a modern game day today. Went undefeated going into the top 8.
Round 1, 2-1 vs trondrazi
Hand hate and big dudes took me to the gold.
Round 2, 2-1 vs dredge.
Got lucky and he had to mull to 3 game 1, game 2 he had the nuts, game 3 he misplayed and tried to conflag my 2/3 goof and grew it to a 4/5 in the process while I got my beats on with goof and shadow.
Round 3 and 4, Ad nauseum. 4-0, The games played pretty similarly. Fast beats and hand hate. Drew the right half of my deck post board and won both game 2's through leylines.
Quarter finals vs Affinity while I was in the first seed. He nut drew, I lost. Game 2, I drew removal and beaters, beat him, game 3, kept a terminate, grudge, 3 lands a shadow and traverse. He had a fast hand with 3 ravagers, I lost.
I ran a pretty stock 75, but made room for 2 flayer mb. I loved them. They don't care about chump blockers and draw removal. They were all stars for me today.
Hello guys! Been watching this thread for a while now, and as I got my deck complete just a few weeks ago, I have some questions:
1. I really feel like I need a Terminate either main or SB, been loosing a lot to tasigur/eldrazis. What do you recommend removing to make room? -1 Decay?
2. I miss Anger of the Gods and a Ethersworn Canonist in the sb. Do you think it's necessary, and what would you remove? This also brings us to:
3. Graveyard hate. Is 3 pieces necessary or could one be removed to make room for Anger? What configuration would you play? (1 Cage +1 spellbomb, 2 surgicals, 2 cage or spellbomb?)
I'll be playing a big tournament on saturday, with players from all of northern Sweden, so any advice is welcome. After that is preparation for GP Birmingham.
My list:
Surgicals have done wonders for me when paired with fulminator mage and also for disrupting storm and other combo strategies. Other than the cages my side board looks basically identical to yours. I've considered cutting the spellbomb for a sweeper but I find that the deck run enough removal to keep up with the creatures on board but not enough gy hate at only 2 pieces in sb. Just something to consider. If your meta is elves heavy then def swap them
Hello guys! Been watching this thread for a while now, and as I got my deck complete just a few weeks ago, I have some questions:
1. I really feel like I need a Terminate either main or SB, been loosing a lot to tasigur/eldrazis. What do you recommend removing to make room? -1 Decay?
2. I miss Anger of the Gods and a Ethersworn Canonist in the sb. Do you think it's necessary, and what would you remove? This also brings us to:
3. Graveyard hate. Is 3 pieces necessary or could one be removed to make room for Anger? What configuration would you play? (1 Cage +1 spellbomb, 2 surgicals, 2 cage or spellbomb?)
I'll be playing a big tournament on saturday, with players from all of northern Sweden, so any advice is welcome. After that is preparation for GP Birmingham.
My list:
Yes, if you want terminate mainboard, then cut a decay for it.
Whether you want Anger or Canonist only depends on your personal meta or were you want to play the deck. Speaking of an open meta, I would run a sweeper I think like Anger, but I am personally leaning towards Kozilek's Return a bit more, since double red can be hard to support. But Anger is definitely an option. And for Canonist, I guess I would play him in an open meta, but depends on the personal meta if you want him here or not.
If you expect much Tron and Valakut, then play 2 Surgicals, if you expect more CoCo decks, then run 1-2 Cage and if you expect mirror matches or Grixis Shadow or Snapcaster based control, then play 1-2 Spellbombs. You can go down on 2 hate cards if you want Anger.
Went to a modern game day today. Went undefeated going into the top 8.
Round 1, 2-1 vs trondrazi
Hand hate and big dudes took me to the gold.
Round 2, 2-1 vs dredge.
Got lucky and he had to mull to 3 game 1, game 2 he had the nuts, game 3 he misplayed and tried to conflag my 2/3 goof and grew it to a 4/5 in the process while I got my beats on with goof and shadow.
Round 3 and 4, Ad nauseum. 4-0, The games played pretty similarly. Fast beats and hand hate. Drew the right half of my deck post board and won both game 2's through leylines.
Quarter finals vs Affinity while I was in the first seed. He nut drew, I lost. Game 2, I drew removal and beaters, beat him, game 3, kept a terminate, grudge, 3 lands a shadow and traverse. He had a fast hand with 3 ravagers, I lost.
I ran a pretty stock 75, but made room for 2 flayer mb. I loved them. They don't care about chump blockers and draw removal. They were all stars for me today.
Awesome that you did great I am curious, what did you cut for the 2-of Flayers? I wanted to try them myself also, but didn't have the chance yet.
I am wondering about the cost/benefit of having the stubborns and this 4th color MD... Without taking into consideration the other individual choices (no TBR, no white in the sideboard...), is it worth trying to embed blue in our MD?
Honestly, I am recently having a lot of difficulties doing 4-1 in MTGO competitive leagues (without even speaking of 5-0), the meta being so prepared to traditional Jund DS (or maybe this is me who is a bad pilot...). I would not consider adding white to the MD to solve the issue, the solutions brought by white do not belong in the MD, but this new idea of having stubborn MD seems appealing.
As a big proponent of 3x tarfire, one thing I like about Grim Flayer is that it helps enable delerium without also being garbage. It probably slows the average traverse turn down a little bit, but in a meta that's shifting towards grindier decks that's probably a worthwhile tradeoff. How has going down to 3 IoK been? I've been really liking the 8 hand disruption so far, but I guess that normal Jund never ran more than 6, and they did fine. I guess that a large role of the hand disruption is to protect our admittedly sparse threats, and going up on threats should help offset the fewer discard.
The spicy tech I've been testing is 1xInfernal Tutor. It's probably wrong for consistency reasons, but it's pretty amazing when you topdeck it late game.
It's only slightly lower probability of having 2 in your opener and helps a little to not hit them as often late game. Which usually sucks. I like dropping to 3 IoK
I am wondering about the cost/benefit of having the stubborns and this 4th color MD... Without taking into consideration the other individual choices (no TBR, no white in the sideboard...), is it worth trying to embed blue in our MD?
Honestly, I am recently having a lot of difficulties doing 4-1 in MTGO competitive leagues (without even speaking of 5-0), the meta being so prepared to traditional Jund DS (or maybe this is me who is a bad pilot...). I would not consider adding white to the MD to solve the issue, the solutions brought by white do not belong in the MD, but this new idea of having stubborn MD seems appealing.
Any thoughts?
Blue helps against Big Mana, but makes your grindy matchups worse. But it doesn't make sense for me to cu TBR, as this card is also needed vs. Big Mana. I don't like this build at all actually. But I think I am going to implement the blue splash as an option in the primer soon, to have everything gathered there.
How critical, do you guys feel, is having a Maelstrom Pulse in the 75?
What are other outs to Leyline effects? I feel it's reasonable to have Wear//Tear in the place of one or two Ancient Grudge.
If you accept the fact that sometimes you just can't deal with a certain permanent (you mention it, leylines) then you don't need to have it. I personally rather have the possiblity to remove every single card potentially. I will always run at least 1 in my 75 in the deck (and also in every GBx deck)
I don't recommend having Wear/Tear as white is sometimes hard to get, you really want more impactful cards like Souls and Ranger rather than fringe Enchantment removal.
How critical, do you guys feel, is having a Maelstrom Pulse in the 75?
What are other outs to Leyline effects? I feel it's reasonable to have Wear//Tear in the place of one or two Ancient Grudge.
Green has good answers to enchantments, so no need to go to white. Good options besides Maelstrom Pulse are: Reclamation Sage, that can be tutored with Traverse, and Unravel the Æther, which has the nice upside of answering the good old jund-killer Wurmcoil Engine.
I don't like Reclamation Sage in our deck, since if we want him, most of the time it would be against stuff like Leyline of the Void (which Decay can't kill) and at this point you can't traverse for it.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
3/2 push/decay MB, 0/0 SB seems totally fine. And push doesn't sound very good in the meta you described anyway.
Well, it's just the mtgo meta. The top decks in the last week or two have been Affinity, Storm, Eldrazi Tron, Jund DS, Burn, and Dredge. So you think the 2nd Decay is worth it over the 4th Push?
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
4x Shadow
4x Goyf
4x Wraith
4x Bauble
4x Push
4x Inquisition
2x Tarfire
4x Thoughtseize
4x Traverse
2x Decay
2x Battlerage
2x Command
2x Liliana Veil
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained
1x Forest
1x Godless
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown
1x Stomping
1x Swamp
4x Verdant
2x Wooded
SB:
3x Fulminator
1x Ranger
1x Spellbomb
2x Surgical
1x Grudge
2x Collective
1x Lili Last Hope
3x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
I've noticed recently that liliana of the veil is much better against a lot of decks where last hope is more niche against certain archetypes. I've had a lot of trouble vs UW control was wondering what others have done to help in this matchup. Any suggestions for main or side are appreciated. Is kataki good over Grudge? Is painful truths a good addition if so where? Do I still need spellbomb in side it's nice vs gy decks but I've been a bit underwhelmed by it recently. Thanks!
Round 1, 2-1 vs trondrazi
Hand hate and big dudes took me to the gold.
Round 2, 2-1 vs dredge.
Got lucky and he had to mull to 3 game 1, game 2 he had the nuts, game 3 he misplayed and tried to conflag my 2/3 goof and grew it to a 4/5 in the process while I got my beats on with goof and shadow.
Round 3 and 4, Ad nauseum. 4-0, The games played pretty similarly. Fast beats and hand hate. Drew the right half of my deck post board and won both game 2's through leylines.
Quarter finals vs Affinity while I was in the first seed. He nut drew, I lost. Game 2, I drew removal and beaters, beat him, game 3, kept a terminate, grudge, 3 lands a shadow and traverse. He had a fast hand with 3 ravagers, I lost.
I ran a pretty stock 75, but made room for 2 flayer mb. I loved them. They don't care about chump blockers and draw removal. They were all stars for me today.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Surgicals have done wonders for me when paired with fulminator mage and also for disrupting storm and other combo strategies. Other than the cages my side board looks basically identical to yours. I've considered cutting the spellbomb for a sweeper but I find that the deck run enough removal to keep up with the creatures on board but not enough gy hate at only 2 pieces in sb. Just something to consider. If your meta is elves heavy then def swap them
Yes, if you want terminate mainboard, then cut a decay for it.
Whether you want Anger or Canonist only depends on your personal meta or were you want to play the deck. Speaking of an open meta, I would run a sweeper I think like Anger, but I am personally leaning towards Kozilek's Return a bit more, since double red can be hard to support. But Anger is definitely an option. And for Canonist, I guess I would play him in an open meta, but depends on the personal meta if you want him here or not.
If you expect much Tron and Valakut, then play 2 Surgicals, if you expect more CoCo decks, then run 1-2 Cage and if you expect mirror matches or Grixis Shadow or Snapcaster based control, then play 1-2 Spellbombs. You can go down on 2 hate cards if you want Anger.
Awesome that you did great I am curious, what did you cut for the 2-of Flayers? I wanted to try them myself also, but didn't have the chance yet.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113617
I am wondering about the cost/benefit of having the stubborns and this 4th color MD... Without taking into consideration the other individual choices (no TBR, no white in the sideboard...), is it worth trying to embed blue in our MD?
Honestly, I am recently having a lot of difficulties doing 4-1 in MTGO competitive leagues (without even speaking of 5-0), the meta being so prepared to traditional Jund DS (or maybe this is me who is a bad pilot...). I would not consider adding white to the MD to solve the issue, the solutions brought by white do not belong in the MD, but this new idea of having stubborn MD seems appealing.
Any thoughts?
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
The spicy tech I've been testing is 1xInfernal Tutor. It's probably wrong for consistency reasons, but it's pretty amazing when you topdeck it late game.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Blue helps against Big Mana, but makes your grindy matchups worse. But it doesn't make sense for me to cu TBR, as this card is also needed vs. Big Mana. I don't like this build at all actually. But I think I am going to implement the blue splash as an option in the primer soon, to have everything gathered there.
What are other outs to Leyline effects? I feel it's reasonable to have Wear//Tear in the place of one or two Ancient Grudge.
If you accept the fact that sometimes you just can't deal with a certain permanent (you mention it, leylines) then you don't need to have it. I personally rather have the possiblity to remove every single card potentially. I will always run at least 1 in my 75 in the deck (and also in every GBx deck)
I don't recommend having Wear/Tear as white is sometimes hard to get, you really want more impactful cards like Souls and Ranger rather than fringe Enchantment removal.
Green has good answers to enchantments, so no need to go to white. Good options besides Maelstrom Pulse are: Reclamation Sage, that can be tutored with Traverse, and Unravel the Æther, which has the nice upside of answering the good old jund-killer Wurmcoil Engine.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW