So against Humans it's easy to sideboard all 3x Stubborn, but what about against Spirits? They use Path and Coco so in the past I've kept 1x Stubborn post-board, bringing in Abrade and Abrupt Decay. My single Ancient Grudge should definitely be another Abrade, so that's an easy switch. I'll try these changes with the following sideboard plansv
My main deck is a stock Manamorphose list with these flex slots: 2 Dismember, 2 Fatal Push, 2 Lightning Bolt, 1 Snapcaster, 3 Stubborn Denial, but only 3x Inquisition of Kozilek.
Against Mardu Pyro -
Out 2 Push, 2 Inquisition, 1 Stubborn
In 2 K-Command, 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Spellbomb, 1 Abrupt decay
Against Affinity -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Dismember, 1 Thoughtseize
In 2 K-Command, 2 Abrade, 2 Radiant Flames
Against KCI -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember, 2 Bolt, 1 Snapcaster
In 2 Abrade, 2 K-Command, 2 Delay, 1 Spellbomb
Against Tron -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember, 1 Bolt
In 2 Delay, 2 K-Command, 1 Fulminator
Against Humans and W/x Taxes -
Out 3 Stubborn, 1 Dismember, 2 Manamorphose
In 2 Abrade, 1 K-Command, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Spirits -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Dismember, 1 Traverse
In 2 Abrade, 1 Delay, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
*Delay seems useful here as it can pull double-duty against Spell Queller.
Against UWx -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember
In 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Abrupt decay, 1 Delay, (1 Fulminator Mage, on the play only) otherwise another Delay
Against RW burn -
Out 2 Dismember, 4 Street Wraith
In 2 Brutality, 2 Abrade, 1 Ghor-clan, 1 Delay
Against Valakut -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember
In 2 Delay, 1 Fulminator Mage, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Storm -
Out 1 traverse, 2 Push
In 1 Spellbomb, 2 Delay
Against Dredge, Vengevine -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Fatal Push
In 1 Abrade, 1 Spellbomb, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Hollow One -
Out 1 Bolt, 1 Stubborn, 2 Fatal Push
In 2 Abrade, 1 Spellbomb, 1 Ghor-clan
----
Any other relevant match-ups you guys can think of? Any adjustments to my SB plans recommended?
I definitely don't want Stubs against Spirits. They're a go-wide creature deck at its core and removal is what's gonna win you the matchup. You still have discard to take their Paths and Cocos. Having a Stub stuck in your hand while they flash in flyer after flyer feels really bad. You also have to keep in mind that they can play Spell Quellers to counter your Stubs, and getting back a discard spell from a Queller that you kill is often a lot better than getting back a Stub.
It's the same for Devoted Company or any other flavor of that archetype - do they play spells that you can target with countermagic? Yes, but the creatures are the problem and you have other solutions for their pesky instants.
I definitely don't want Stubs against Spirits. They're a go-wide creature deck at its core and removal is what's gonna win you the matchup. You still have discard to take their Paths and Cocos. Having a Stub stuck in your hand while they flash in flyer after flyer feels really bad. You also have to keep in mind that they can play Spell Quellers to counter your Stubs, and getting back a discard spell from a Queller that you kill is often a lot better than getting back a Stub.
It's the same for Devoted Company or any other flavor of that archetype - do they play spells that you can target with countermagic? Yes, but the creatures are the problem and you have other solutions for their pesky instants.
I agree with your statement against spirit/humans/merfolk.
But I disagree against Devoted Company. I played 3 stub postboard in my last game against them and they
have been MVP. It counters Chord, Path and collected. 3 very important card in their deck. Stub gave me
2 postboard game. Countering 2 company and 2 chord in 2 matchs.
Yeah, I like having 2+ stub against devoted company. Coco, Chord, and Paths is a lot of targets, and all are very important.
Spirits it probably depends a lot on the build. If they have CoCo, then I'm inclined to keep 1-2 stubs in. If they don't, then you're only really countering Paths. Maybe Settle the Wreckage. But I'm pretty uncertain about this matchup.
Hi folks, I've been brewing with a Sultai Traverse Shadow list for a while, and recently decided to splash red for TBR, only to realize I ended up with a relatively known 4C Death's Shadow list.
Do you guys have any tips for this list? I'm pretty satisfied with the maindeck, the high creature count ensures an early threat while packing just the right amounts of interaction with 6 discard, 6 removal and 3 stubs. I was running 2 LotV maindeck instead of the TBR's but realized I wanted to be more aggressive game 1, with grindy cards coming from my sideboard. I kept 1 LtLH maindeck due to the high amount of Young Pyromancers and various other tokens at my local shop. I feel like I'm missing some grind potential in my sideboard, but is that really a problem? Shouldn't I be playing the aggressive role versus other grindy decks?
Yeah, I like having 2+ stub against devoted company. Coco, Chord, and Paths is a lot of targets, and all are very important.
Spirits it probably depends a lot on the build. If they have CoCo, then I'm inclined to keep 1-2 stubs in. If they don't, then you're only really countering Paths. Maybe Settle the Wreckage. But I'm pretty uncertain about this matchup.
Devoted Company also usually plays Worship post-board which impossible for us to answer without counter magic.
So far with Spirits I've been keeping 1x Stubborn post board. But I'll try to replace that with a SB Delay, since it can counter creatures and hits Spell Queller with its own medicine. Do you think replacing Dismember with Abrade is the right call in game 2/3? The 4 life just hurts so much and casting for 3 is steep too. But it does get around Selfless Spirit which was relevant for me once (I lost that game still though).
I like having both abrade and dismember postboard tbh. I typically shave 1-2 street wraith in this matchup to take pressure off our life total. But again, no idea what's right.
Yeah, I like having 2+ stub against devoted company. Coco, Chord, and Paths is a lot of targets, and all are very important.
Spirits it probably depends a lot on the build. If they have CoCo, then I'm inclined to keep 1-2 stubs in. If they don't, then you're only really countering Paths. Maybe Settle the Wreckage. But I'm pretty uncertain about this matchup.
Devoted Company also usually plays Worship post-board which impossible for us to answer without counter magic.
So far with Spirits I've been keeping 1x Stubborn post board. But I'll try to replace that with a SB Delay, since it can counter creatures and hits Spell Queller with its own medicine. Do you think replacing Dismember with Abrade is the right call in game 2/3? The 4 life just hurts so much and casting for 3 is steep too. But it does get around Selfless Spirit which was relevant for me once (I lost that game still though).
I have one collective MD and 1 sb. It answer worship =) but yes. It's good.
That is some sweet tech I hadn't thought of! All modes of CB seem fairly useful against Spirits and Devoted Company both.
What do you guys think of the recent top 8 lists from Mtggoldfish.com? Looks like more Traverse are using main deck Lingering Souls and Faithless Looting. One list even had a main deck single Bedlam Reveler which I thought was neat.
With all due respect, wasn't that only a 19 player event? That is, IIRC, only 4 rounds? How next-level is your list if you can sweep 4 rounds? There are so many variable archetypes in modern right now, and a decent portion of the metagame has our deck at 45/55 or worse. What match-ups did you play? What decks did you face? How did you sideboard? These are relevant questions when gloating the self-proclaimed godliness of your deck list. All things considered, this result is not even as impressive as a 5-0 competitive league on MTGO.
Also, your article has literally one comment so I don't think "a ton of media attention" is warranted just yet
With all due respect, wasn't that only a 19 player event? That is, IIRC, only 4 rounds? How next-level is your list if you can sweep 4 rounds? There are so many variable archetypes in modern right now, and a decent portion of the metagame has our deck at 45/55 or worse. What match-ups did you play? What decks did you face? How did you sideboard? These are relevant questions when gloating the self-proclaimed godliness of your deck list. All things considered, this result is not even as impressive as a 5-0 competitive league on MTGO.
Also, your article has literally one comment so I don't think "a ton of media attention" is warranted just yet
It was 5, and there were respectable Modern players at the event from the Calgary area. I've been asked to jump on podcasts, write more articles, jump on playtesting teams. I can also view how many hits the article has had, and my personal inbox on Facebook was contacted more than the article itself.
I've also top 8'd multiple 50 man pptq's, so I understand your criticism. I consistently competed and qualified for Nationals when ELO was the system used, and have been on the PT. The 15-0 on MTGO might be more impressive to you, but the article itself is my opinion, whether you agree or not you are free to discuss
With all due respect, wasn't that only a 19 player event? That is, IIRC, only 4 rounds? How next-level is your list if you can sweep 4 rounds? There are so many variable archetypes in modern right now, and a decent portion of the metagame has our deck at 45/55 or worse. What match-ups did you play? What decks did you face? How did you sideboard? These are relevant questions when gloating the self-proclaimed godliness of your deck list. All things considered, this result is not even as impressive as a 5-0 competitive league on MTGO.
Also, your article has literally one comment so I don't think "a ton of media attention" is warranted just yet
It was 5, and there were respectable Modern players at the event from the Calgary area. I've been asked to jump on podcasts, write more articles, jump on playtesting teams. I can also view how many hits the article has had, and my personal inbox on Facebook was contacted more than the article itself.
I've also top 8'd multiple 50 man pptq's, so I understand your criticism. I consistently competed and qualified for Nationals when ELO was the system used, and have been on the PT. The 15-0 on MTGO might be more impressive to you, but the article itself is my opinion, whether you agree or not you are free to discuss
To be honest, I liked the article. I don't agree with all points necessarily, but most of them. I was just pointing out that you seem to toot your own horn quite a bit here, when not much has really been achieved. You even mention in the article that you just barely picked up the deck in the middle of this PPTQ season. Compare that to someone like Spooly here who has many top finishes with 4C Shadow
As someone new to the deck myself (only been playing since late June) I'd really love to know more about what match ups you faced in that event and how you sideboarded.
Some of your tech is really intriguing. Hazoret as a potential main deck Singleton is worth consideration. Also sticking to only 3 colors has huge benefits if only the Mana consistency. Personally I don't think I could drop blue. Stubborn and Snapcaster have both helped me so much. No K-Command in the 75 but using Maelstrom Pulse instead? That is some tech I can get behind. It's not always a 2-for1 but has great applications against a wider variety of decks than KC.
Like I first mentioned, all due respect. You won the event which I have yet to do with this deck in 4 PPTQs (I haven't even made top 8 yet)
Congrats on the win. Don't take this as bashing, but as constructive criticism.
I think that not playing the full set of traverse is a big mistake. From the whole concept of this deck over Grixis, the point of it is running more threats: traverse being threat 9-12 (or 13-14 if you run grim flayers) vs the single 8 threats from grixis.(yes you make up for some traverses with the grim flayers). But now, by replacing those traverses with faithless lootings, you're basically seeing the same amount of card selection (early game) that grixis sees with serum visions (making the whole point of playing green for threats 9-12 completely moot). Having said that, faithless looting plus traverse has been tested and while it looks cute in paper, I can't say it has had that many positive results. We are simply not a good looting deck in which we cant make full use out of the looting aspect like mardu does. Plus the extra red spell makes the mana base harder to sustain for splashing other colors. In reality, this deck would even try to cut out red completely if it weren't for temur battle rage (which is the main reason we run red) and now bolt which has been having more of a spot because of humans but wasn't even a maindeckable card in traverse shadow before humans took over.
I also disagree on not splashing at least the 4th color, the strength of the deck comes in being able to apply early pressure and disruption while keeping the most valuable card from grixis which is stubborn denial; or the grindy aspect of souls.
I personally still believe in the strength of (having successful results) running all 5 colors since lingering souls gives us the same axis to compete vs other midrange decks which just eat us alive. Mardu, jund, grixis shadow simply will outgrind you if you do not have white. And the logic you use by saying that a kitesail freebooter and humans will laugh at your 1/1 tokens doesn't convince me. If you're in the position where you're casting lingering souls against humans while letting them have a noble and kitesail on board run freely then you're already in a losing spot from the get-go. That's why you run sweepers and so many removal.
Id like to know what matchups you faced, because at the moment this deck has a very 45-55 matchup against most of the field. Having a great match vs KCI and other combo decks; and being terrible against UW control.
Congrats again on your win, and id like to hear your thoughts on what I just wrote.
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I still believe whole-heartedly that the first Grim Flayer is worse than the 4th Traverse, vast majority of the time. If I was considering cutting down on Traverse, I would cut all Grim Flayer before cutting a single TTU. The times where it's favorable to draw GF instead of a Traverse are just so rare.
Personally I haven't had much of a problem sticking threats, except against Jeskai whom I've been lucky enough to dodge completely in my last three PPTQs.
The problem I have with Faithless Looting in this deck is that we don't have anything useful to discard. It only feels worth it to cast Looting when I have at least one card in hand I know I can pitch. Mardu has Souls, Grixis has Snapcaster so virtually any inst/sorc can be reasonable discarded. We don't have any of that. Maybe you're against Tron so you can pitch your Lightning bolts, or maybe you're against Humans so you can pitch your Stubborn Denial. But Looting is almost always a terrible turn 1 play (for this deck), especially games two and three. I believe it truly is modern's brainstorm, but only in a deck that can utilize the graveyard such as Mardu or Grixis. Not for us. To be fair, I tried looting in my first titrations of this deck, so I'm speaking from experience not just theory crafting.
I'm starting to feel more confident in adding LOTV back into my list though. Considering the mid-range style of this deck, I'm surprisingly losing to grind match-ups against Humans sand similar decks. Plus she would be great against other Shadow decks or any threat-light tempo deck
I've been trying out Traverse Shadow again recently - having not played it since early this year. Having been back and forth between Jund and Grixis Death's Shadow I decided to go back to the roots of the deck from the initial winning list in Vancouver last year (ie. playing no blue, but white with lingering souls and ranger in the board).
Running only 3 colors maindeck have made the deck feel very smooth maindeck and I've been liking it quite a bit. I went to a PPTQ this weekend, I went 4-0-1 in the swiss (granted I met a mix of unlucky and unexperienced pilots, so nothing special) with this list:
The maindeck felt very good - extremely fast and able to race in many games. The sideboard was decent (I'm very much on the fence about the Alpine moon and the Gaddock Teeg).
I'm wondering what you're all doing tackling the UWx Matchups? I've been trying a build that drops the Manamorphoses for some more staying power, which feels a little slower but also has better ability to grind out games, even in the maindeck. I still do not feel that this deck can win games against UWx decks (I'm not going for a favorable matchup, but just wondering if it is possible to get to, say 40/60):
Any experiences, suggestions? I'm currently considering this for the Unified GP in Liverpool (long time to go, I know - but I like to get my practice in early).
I've been trying out Traverse Shadow again recently - having not played it since early this year. Having been back and forth between Jund and Grixis Death's Shadow I decided to go back to the roots of the deck from the initial winning list in Vancouver last year (ie. playing no blue, but white with lingering souls and ranger in the board).
Running only 3 colors maindeck have made the deck feel very smooth maindeck and I've been liking it quite a bit. I went to a PPTQ this weekend, I went 4-0-1 in the swiss (granted I met a mix of unlucky and unexperienced pilots, so nothing special) with this list:
The maindeck felt very good - extremely fast and able to race in many games. The sideboard was decent (I'm very much on the fence about the Alpine moon and the Gaddock Teeg).
I'm wondering what you're all doing tackling the UWx Matchups? I've been trying a build that drops the Manamorphoses for some more staying power, which feels a little slower but also has better ability to grind out games, even in the maindeck. I still do not feel that this deck can win games against UWx decks (I'm not going for a favorable matchup, but just wondering if it is possible to get to, say 40/60):
Any experiences, suggestions? I'm currently considering this for the Unified GP in Liverpool (long time to go, I know - but I like to get my practice in early).
Adding blue to your deck helps the UW match-up considerably. Stubborn Denial, Snapcaster, and Delay out of SB have all been helpful for me. I played a pick-up game last night against UW Miracles and I actually won 2-0 which felt great. Both sides had a lot of interaction but in the end, protecting a Tarmogoyf with counter magic is what won me both games.
Additionally, I Sideboard Golgari Charm against them. It kills Detention Sphere, Azcanta, and Rest in Peace. Also protects against Supreme Verdict.
How has your list faired against Humans and/Spirits? It's been my most difficult match-up
I have yet to play humans, but creature beatdown decks have felt very favored - I am very scared of reflector mage though.
I only played spirits once and my opponent got super unlucky (and played a bit weird too though). One of the locals here went 8-0 day one with spirits at GP Prague so I’m looking forward to play against him. Humans seem to have taken a drop where I play so I’m not sure if I’ll get the chance to report back on that soon or not.
For most creature matchups with fliers that attack my plan so far has been to board out all street wraiths and board into lingering souls that allow me to attack and force chump blocks. Depending on the matchup other cards might get boarded out too (Liliana of the veil versus humans as an example). I’m not yet too sure of battle rage for these matchups but I tend to leave at least one copy post board.
I went 4-0 for Tuesday night magic locally with the list I posted without manamorphose tonight, playing against 8-whack, hardened scales, counters company and jeskai.
I agree that blue can make the matchup better (especially since they’ve gone down on verdict) but I’m not really at a point where I want to cut white. I really like the clean main deck manabase (and the fact that I only have tbr that requires a creature on the board to be good). It might turn out to be what is needed though, but then I’m not really sure how such a deck would look (with both white and blue in the board only)
Thanks for the info. Congrats on your 4-0.. how was the match against Jeskai?
Spirits is the main reason I'm thinking of going back to lingering souls. I still have yet to win a single game against the deck. Even humans and UW feels more favored to me
2 Delay
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Golgari Charm
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Abrade
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Radiant Flames
1 Ghor-clan Rampager
1 Fulminator Mage
My main deck is a stock Manamorphose list with these flex slots: 2 Dismember, 2 Fatal Push, 2 Lightning Bolt, 1 Snapcaster, 3 Stubborn Denial, but only 3x Inquisition of Kozilek.
Against Mardu Pyro -
Out 2 Push, 2 Inquisition, 1 Stubborn
In 2 K-Command, 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Spellbomb, 1 Abrupt decay
Against Affinity -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Dismember, 1 Thoughtseize
In 2 K-Command, 2 Abrade, 2 Radiant Flames
Against KCI -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember, 2 Bolt, 1 Snapcaster
In 2 Abrade, 2 K-Command, 2 Delay, 1 Spellbomb
Against Tron -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember, 1 Bolt
In 2 Delay, 2 K-Command, 1 Fulminator
Against Humans and W/x Taxes -
Out 3 Stubborn, 1 Dismember, 2 Manamorphose
In 2 Abrade, 1 K-Command, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Spirits -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Dismember, 1 Traverse
In 2 Abrade, 1 Delay, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
*Delay seems useful here as it can pull double-duty against Spell Queller.
Against UWx -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember
In 1 Golgari Charm, 1 Abrupt decay, 1 Delay, (1 Fulminator Mage, on the play only) otherwise another Delay
Against RW burn -
Out 2 Dismember, 4 Street Wraith
In 2 Brutality, 2 Abrade, 1 Ghor-clan, 1 Delay
Against Valakut -
Out 2 Push, 2 Dismember
In 2 Delay, 1 Fulminator Mage, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Storm -
Out 1 traverse, 2 Push
In 1 Spellbomb, 2 Delay
Against Dredge, Vengevine -
Out 3 Stubborn, 2 Fatal Push
In 1 Abrade, 1 Spellbomb, 2 Radiant flames, 1 Ghor-clan
Against Hollow One -
Out 1 Bolt, 1 Stubborn, 2 Fatal Push
In 2 Abrade, 1 Spellbomb, 1 Ghor-clan
----
Any other relevant match-ups you guys can think of? Any adjustments to my SB plans recommended?
Draft My Cube!
It's the same for Devoted Company or any other flavor of that archetype - do they play spells that you can target with countermagic? Yes, but the creatures are the problem and you have other solutions for their pesky instants.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I agree with your statement against spirit/humans/merfolk.
But I disagree against Devoted Company. I played 3 stub postboard in my last game against them and they
have been MVP. It counters Chord, Path and collected. 3 very important card in their deck. Stub gave me
2 postboard game. Countering 2 company and 2 chord in 2 matchs.
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Spirits it probably depends a lot on the build. If they have CoCo, then I'm inclined to keep 1-2 stubs in. If they don't, then you're only really countering Paths. Maybe Settle the Wreckage. But I'm pretty uncertain about this matchup.
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Watery Grave
Sorcery (9)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
3x Traverse the Ulvenwald
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
4x Fatal Push
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Temur Battle Rage
Creature (17)
4x Death's Shadow
3x Grim Flayer
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Street Wraith
4x Tarmogoyf
Artifact (4)
4x Mishra's Bauble
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Collective Brutality
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Flaying Tendrils
1x Golgari Charm
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Stubborn Denial
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Tireless Tracker
Do you guys have any tips for this list? I'm pretty satisfied with the maindeck, the high creature count ensures an early threat while packing just the right amounts of interaction with 6 discard, 6 removal and 3 stubs. I was running 2 LotV maindeck instead of the TBR's but realized I wanted to be more aggressive game 1, with grindy cards coming from my sideboard. I kept 1 LtLH maindeck due to the high amount of Young Pyromancers and various other tokens at my local shop. I feel like I'm missing some grind potential in my sideboard, but is that really a problem? Shouldn't I be playing the aggressive role versus other grindy decks?
Devoted Company also usually plays Worship post-board which impossible for us to answer without counter magic.
So far with Spirits I've been keeping 1x Stubborn post board. But I'll try to replace that with a SB Delay, since it can counter creatures and hits Spell Queller with its own medicine. Do you think replacing Dismember with Abrade is the right call in game 2/3? The 4 life just hurts so much and casting for 3 is steep too. But it does get around Selfless Spirit which was relevant for me once (I lost that game still though).
Draft My Cube!
I have one collective MD and 1 sb. It answer worship =) but yes. It's good.
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
What do you guys think of the recent top 8 lists from Mtggoldfish.com? Looks like more Traverse are using main deck Lingering Souls and Faithless Looting. One list even had a main deck single Bedlam Reveler which I thought was neat.
Draft My Cube!
http://www.mtgcanada.com/modern/playing-jund-shadow-not-grixis/
Pretty much summarizes my thoughts!
With all due respect, wasn't that only a 19 player event? That is, IIRC, only 4 rounds? How next-level is your list if you can sweep 4 rounds? There are so many variable archetypes in modern right now, and a decent portion of the metagame has our deck at 45/55 or worse. What match-ups did you play? What decks did you face? How did you sideboard? These are relevant questions when gloating the self-proclaimed godliness of your deck list. All things considered, this result is not even as impressive as a 5-0 competitive league on MTGO.
Also, your article has literally one comment so I don't think "a ton of media attention" is warranted just yet
Draft My Cube!
It was 5, and there were respectable Modern players at the event from the Calgary area. I've been asked to jump on podcasts, write more articles, jump on playtesting teams. I can also view how many hits the article has had, and my personal inbox on Facebook was contacted more than the article itself.
I've also top 8'd multiple 50 man pptq's, so I understand your criticism. I consistently competed and qualified for Nationals when ELO was the system used, and have been on the PT. The 15-0 on MTGO might be more impressive to you, but the article itself is my opinion, whether you agree or not you are free to discuss
To be honest, I liked the article. I don't agree with all points necessarily, but most of them. I was just pointing out that you seem to toot your own horn quite a bit here, when not much has really been achieved. You even mention in the article that you just barely picked up the deck in the middle of this PPTQ season. Compare that to someone like Spooly here who has many top finishes with 4C Shadow
As someone new to the deck myself (only been playing since late June) I'd really love to know more about what match ups you faced in that event and how you sideboarded.
Some of your tech is really intriguing. Hazoret as a potential main deck Singleton is worth consideration. Also sticking to only 3 colors has huge benefits if only the Mana consistency. Personally I don't think I could drop blue. Stubborn and Snapcaster have both helped me so much. No K-Command in the 75 but using Maelstrom Pulse instead? That is some tech I can get behind. It's not always a 2-for1 but has great applications against a wider variety of decks than KC.
Like I first mentioned, all due respect. You won the event which I have yet to do with this deck in 4 PPTQs (I haven't even made top 8 yet)
Draft My Cube!
I think that not playing the full set of traverse is a big mistake. From the whole concept of this deck over Grixis, the point of it is running more threats: traverse being threat 9-12 (or 13-14 if you run grim flayers) vs the single 8 threats from grixis.(yes you make up for some traverses with the grim flayers). But now, by replacing those traverses with faithless lootings, you're basically seeing the same amount of card selection (early game) that grixis sees with serum visions (making the whole point of playing green for threats 9-12 completely moot). Having said that, faithless looting plus traverse has been tested and while it looks cute in paper, I can't say it has had that many positive results. We are simply not a good looting deck in which we cant make full use out of the looting aspect like mardu does. Plus the extra red spell makes the mana base harder to sustain for splashing other colors. In reality, this deck would even try to cut out red completely if it weren't for temur battle rage (which is the main reason we run red) and now bolt which has been having more of a spot because of humans but wasn't even a maindeckable card in traverse shadow before humans took over.
I also disagree on not splashing at least the 4th color, the strength of the deck comes in being able to apply early pressure and disruption while keeping the most valuable card from grixis which is stubborn denial; or the grindy aspect of souls.
I personally still believe in the strength of (having successful results) running all 5 colors since lingering souls gives us the same axis to compete vs other midrange decks which just eat us alive. Mardu, jund, grixis shadow simply will outgrind you if you do not have white. And the logic you use by saying that a kitesail freebooter and humans will laugh at your 1/1 tokens doesn't convince me. If you're in the position where you're casting lingering souls against humans while letting them have a noble and kitesail on board run freely then you're already in a losing spot from the get-go. That's why you run sweepers and so many removal.
Id like to know what matchups you faced, because at the moment this deck has a very 45-55 matchup against most of the field. Having a great match vs KCI and other combo decks; and being terrible against UW control.
Congrats again on your win, and id like to hear your thoughts on what I just wrote.
Personally I haven't had much of a problem sticking threats, except against Jeskai whom I've been lucky enough to dodge completely in my last three PPTQs.
The problem I have with Faithless Looting in this deck is that we don't have anything useful to discard. It only feels worth it to cast Looting when I have at least one card in hand I know I can pitch. Mardu has Souls, Grixis has Snapcaster so virtually any inst/sorc can be reasonable discarded. We don't have any of that. Maybe you're against Tron so you can pitch your Lightning bolts, or maybe you're against Humans so you can pitch your Stubborn Denial. But Looting is almost always a terrible turn 1 play (for this deck), especially games two and three. I believe it truly is modern's brainstorm, but only in a deck that can utilize the graveyard such as Mardu or Grixis. Not for us. To be fair, I tried looting in my first titrations of this deck, so I'm speaking from experience not just theory crafting.
I'm starting to feel more confident in adding LOTV back into my list though. Considering the mid-range style of this deck, I'm surprisingly losing to grind match-ups against Humans sand similar decks. Plus she would be great against other Shadow decks or any threat-light tempo deck
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i try exacly 75 in my next event LGS.
Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Shadow
Traverse Shadow
Jund
Abzan
The Rock
Running only 3 colors maindeck have made the deck feel very smooth maindeck and I've been liking it quite a bit. I went to a PPTQ this weekend, I went 4-0-1 in the swiss (granted I met a mix of unlucky and unexperienced pilots, so nothing special) with this list:
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Manamorphose
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Tarfire
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Terminate
2 Abrade
2 Alpine Moon
2 Collective Brutality
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Radiant Flames
1 Ranger of Eos
The maindeck felt very good - extremely fast and able to race in many games. The sideboard was decent (I'm very much on the fence about the Alpine moon and the Gaddock Teeg).
I'm wondering what you're all doing tackling the UWx Matchups? I've been trying a build that drops the Manamorphoses for some more staying power, which feels a little slower but also has better ability to grind out games, even in the maindeck. I still do not feel that this deck can win games against UWx decks (I'm not going for a favorable matchup, but just wondering if it is possible to get to, say 40/60):
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Temur Battle Rage
3 Tarfire
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrade
1 Radiant Flames
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Fatal Push
2 Surgical Extraction
Any experiences, suggestions? I'm currently considering this for the Unified GP in Liverpool (long time to go, I know - but I like to get my practice in early).
Adding blue to your deck helps the UW match-up considerably. Stubborn Denial, Snapcaster, and Delay out of SB have all been helpful for me. I played a pick-up game last night against UW Miracles and I actually won 2-0 which felt great. Both sides had a lot of interaction but in the end, protecting a Tarmogoyf with counter magic is what won me both games.
Additionally, I Sideboard Golgari Charm against them. It kills Detention Sphere, Azcanta, and Rest in Peace. Also protects against Supreme Verdict.
How has your list faired against Humans and/Spirits? It's been my most difficult match-up
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I only played spirits once and my opponent got super unlucky (and played a bit weird too though). One of the locals here went 8-0 day one with spirits at GP Prague so I’m looking forward to play against him. Humans seem to have taken a drop where I play so I’m not sure if I’ll get the chance to report back on that soon or not.
For most creature matchups with fliers that attack my plan so far has been to board out all street wraiths and board into lingering souls that allow me to attack and force chump blocks. Depending on the matchup other cards might get boarded out too (Liliana of the veil versus humans as an example). I’m not yet too sure of battle rage for these matchups but I tend to leave at least one copy post board.
I went 4-0 for Tuesday night magic locally with the list I posted without manamorphose tonight, playing against 8-whack, hardened scales, counters company and jeskai.
I agree that blue can make the matchup better (especially since they’ve gone down on verdict) but I’m not really at a point where I want to cut white. I really like the clean main deck manabase (and the fact that I only have tbr that requires a creature on the board to be good). It might turn out to be what is needed though, but then I’m not really sure how such a deck would look (with both white and blue in the board only)
Spirits is the main reason I'm thinking of going back to lingering souls. I still have yet to win a single game against the deck. Even humans and UW feels more favored to me
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