@Gus I know Reid boards them in, but I don't particularly agree with this. From my experience discard is not the type of card you are hoping for when playing Living End. You really want a fast clock and GY hate basically. I agree discard is ok to gain time, and probably CB is a better topdeck than IOK or TS, but I am hesitant to overall increase the number of discard spells in my deck. I would want 1 in the opening hand and that about it usually. Following discard spells are just way worse than the first one here. Thats why I would not want to go over 6 discard spells after SB.
I disagree. Without disruption against Living End, you will lose assuming they don't fizzle out on their own through some weird way. Graveyard hate doesn't do a ton against more experience Living End pilots. Most of those people realize that they should just start casting their threats from turn 5 onward, and most of their threats trump yours. Not to mention, they rarely care about them dying and can respond to your attempt to use Nihil Spellbomb with a cascade spell (Demonic Dread or Violent Outburst) into Living End. There's a reason they fear Liliana of the Veil. All that said, Collective Brutality is still fairly poor imo, but we have enough suspect cards to dump for most 75s. Not to mention, Violent Outburst can be a very good evasion spell for them.
I am inclined to agree that disruption is needed against them, I didn't mean to say I don't like it at all. My issue is, that with 6 discard spells main already, I think hand disruption is more or less enough. Don't you think going up to 8-9 discard spells is too much? I just feel like they screw my topdecks too much. I guess CB is fine to bring in since you can always drain them if you topdeck it later, but what my thought process is, is that its primary purpose is the discard mode. And if we do so, you can compare it to times we had Duress in the SB, would you accordingly bring Duress in against Living End? Seems too risky for me.
With an activated Nihil Spellbomb on the stack, they can't play Demonic Dread. Its a sorcery.
What exactly do you mean with Violent Outburst being an evasion spell?
Its true we have alot to shave from the deck after SB, in that regard I think its fine to bring in, but just looking at the card on its own, it not my primary choice to bring in I have to say.
A question: is there a facebook chat where we can talk about Jund?
MTG JUND CITY
Jund is tough to play at my store, it feels like there's either a ton of lingering souls, big mana or GY decks
Went 2-2 at a 40 man fnm
Someone played vindicate against me, which was definitely full of lulz. It was a more experienced player, which was surprising. When he said he was casting vindicate against my ravine I thought he meant anguished unmaking
Game 3 against Grixis, game 1 he honestly just had a way better hand and better draws. Game 2 he had a way better hand than me and I felt like I was outplaying him and navigated so well to have him topdecking, but I punted hard on a dumb play
Then my next freaking opponent was Little Kid Junk, which feels completely designed to destroy Jund, game 1 it took drawing Grim and Olivia to fight through 6x lingering souls, a gavony and Liege.
Seriously, don't know how you guys are doing it, all the non grixis shadow midrange decks seem to be playing lingering souls, not sure how you guys are doing so well at your store. The other guy who refuses to switch off Jund and has been playing it for years hasn't seemed to go better than 2-2 in a long while, from what I've observed
I see Tracker a lot in the current decklists. She seems to replace at least one of our 4-drops, do you guys have positive experience with her? Also - in case you play the card - how often do you like her?
I have minimal experience with tracker, I think he can be great, but its like chaos said, rather medium. I guess if you play him and get to draw a card from it alongside trading with a removal spell for it its alright, but does not feel amazing. I am not sure you can guarantee drawing multiple cards with it.
For me Tracker has replaced the Chandra slot in the deck. Has a similar function as the CA engine for the long and grindy games. It's easier to cast and often leaves behind clues to crack when convenient (Chandra was far too often a 4 mana kill spell). It also helps fight the weakness Jund does have against Grixis DS. They have better top decks because they run fewer lands. This helps you draw through those lands if left unchecked.
I went to a new LGS today and it was extremely blood moon heavy, I literally got hit by Blood Moon 3 rounds straight. Gonna go up to 9 fetches (4 catacombs, 3 mires, 2 foothills) instead of the 8 I'm currently playing to get around it, and fuel Fatal Push as well
That sounds like an awful meta. How many players at this store?
Thursday night modern around 20 players? It was kinda brutal. I faced a Mardu midrange, Skred, then Mardu Nahiri with possiblity storm/emrakul package. Pretty spicy stuff.
In one game I opened with T1 IOK, T2 Thoughtseize to strip his hand of relevant plays. He topdecked a T3 Blood Moon anyway. Bad feels
The LGS is pretty competitive though (I saw counters company, eldratron, amulet titan etc). Doesn't seem friendly to Jund that's for sure.
I really don't understand why you would run less than 9 fetches these days. Push is now a staple in our deck. I have said it multiple times already, but I really have to say I am still amazed by seing some people still operating on 8 fetches.
@wtyyy: Do you run 2 Swamps and 1 Forest as your basic lands? If you do not run 2 Forests, I would advise going for 4 Verdants, 4 Bloodstained and 1 Foothills. You want black way more now, again because of Push. In the past fetching for a basic swamp on turn 1 was not the ideal thing to do, but with the inclusion of push, this play is reasonable now.
I really don't understand why you would run less than 9 fetches these days. Push is now a staple in our deck. I have said it multiple times already, but I really have to say I am still amazed by seing some people still operating on 8 fetches.
@wtyyy: Do you run 2 Swamps and 1 Forest as your basic lands? If you do not run 2 Forests, I would advise going for 4 Verdants, 4 Bloodstained and 1 Foothills. You want black way more now, again because of Push. In the past fetching for a basic swamp on turn 1 was not the ideal thing to do, but with the inclusion of push, this play is reasonable now.
Yes, 2 Swamps and 1 Forest. I just feel very soft to blood moon, short of 2 decays and 1 pulse I have no way to getting rid of it if they top deck it
I really don't understand why you would run less than 9 fetches these days. Push is now a staple in our deck. I have said it multiple times already, but I really have to say I am still amazed by seing some people still operating on 8 fetches.
@wtyyy: Do you run 2 Swamps and 1 Forest as your basic lands? If you do not run 2 Forests, I would advise going for 4 Verdants, 4 Bloodstained and 1 Foothills. You want black way more now, again because of Push. In the past fetching for a basic swamp on turn 1 was not the ideal thing to do, but with the inclusion of push, this play is reasonable now.
Yes, 2 Swamps and 1 Forest. I just feel very soft to blood moon, short of 2 decays and 1 pulse I have no way to getting rid of it if they top deck it
Then I would play 2 Swamp and 2 Forest and 4 Verdant, 3 Bloodstained and 2 Wooded.
I started playing with Grim Flayer again and I'm not disappointed. Sometimes it's a 4/4, sometimes it's a 2/2, but what really matters is it's combat trigger. I've found myself beating a lot of decks just because I was able to dig and find my proper hate card. He also plays extremely nicely with Dark Confidant, stacking cards to mitigate life loss. I'm not playing any delirium enablers because delirium isn't vital to my gameplan. I simply swapped 3 Flayers for my 3 Scavenging Ooze and the rest is stock.
Speaking of Scavenging Ooze, does anybody really believe it's worth a slot anymore? I'm hardly ever excited to draw one and even in matchups where it should excel, it's extremely underwhelming. I feel like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet has a similar role (Lifegain, GY stuff), but just does it a little better. I know some people are going to scald me for not playing Ooze simply because they don't like change and Ooze has been a staple for years, but I challenge you to really think about how good that card is and report back.
Recap: Replaced Ooze with Grim Flayer and am really liking it.
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"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
I started playing with Grim Flayer again and I'm not disappointed. Sometimes it's a 4/4, sometimes it's a 2/2, but what really matters is it's combat trigger. I've found myself beating a lot of decks just because I was able to dig and find my proper hate card. He also plays extremely nicely with Dark Confidant, stacking cards to mitigate life loss. I'm not playing any delirium enablers because delirium isn't vital to my gameplan. I simply swapped 3 Flayers for my 3 Scavenging Ooze and the rest is stock.
Speaking of Scavenging Ooze, does anybody really believe it's worth a slot anymore? I'm hardly ever excited to draw one and even in matchups where it should excel, it's extremely underwhelming. I feel like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet has a similar role (Lifegain, GY stuff), but just does it a little better. I know some people are going to scald me for not playing Ooze simply because they don't like change and Ooze has been a staple for years, but I challenge you to really think about how good that card is and report back.
Recap: Replaced Ooze with Grim Flayer and am really liking it.
It largely depends on what decks you see in your area. My local area is very midrange heavy and Scavenging Ooze tends to be a rock star.
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I am inclined to agree that disruption is needed against them, I didn't mean to say I don't like it at all. My issue is, that with 6 discard spells main already, I think hand disruption is more or less enough. Don't you think going up to 8-9 discard spells is too much? I just feel like they screw my topdecks too much. I guess CB is fine to bring in since you can always drain them if you topdeck it later, but what my thought process is, is that its primary purpose is the discard mode. And if we do so, you can compare it to times we had Duress in the SB, would you accordingly bring Duress in against Living End? Seems too risky for me.
With an activated Nihil Spellbomb on the stack, they can't play Demonic Dread. Its a sorcery.
What exactly do you mean with Violent Outburst being an evasion spell?
Its true we have alot to shave from the deck after SB, in that regard I think its fine to bring in, but just looking at the card on its own, it not my primary choice to bring in I have to say.
With Nihil Spellbomb's ability on the stack, they can use a Violent Outburst in response to find a Living End to effectively counter your ability.
I meant Demonic Dread. Sometimes they use it to just get lethal the old-fashioned way by removing enough blocking to get there.
MTG JUND CITY
Jund is tough to play at my store, it feels like there's either a ton of lingering souls, big mana or GY decks
Went 2-2 at a 40 man fnm
Someone played vindicate against me, which was definitely full of lulz. It was a more experienced player, which was surprising. When he said he was casting vindicate against my ravine I thought he meant anguished unmaking
Game 3 against Grixis, game 1 he honestly just had a way better hand and better draws. Game 2 he had a way better hand than me and I felt like I was outplaying him and navigated so well to have him topdecking, but I punted hard on a dumb play
Then my next freaking opponent was Little Kid Junk, which feels completely designed to destroy Jund, game 1 it took drawing Grim and Olivia to fight through 6x lingering souls, a gavony and Liege.
Seriously, don't know how you guys are doing it, all the non grixis shadow midrange decks seem to be playing lingering souls, not sure how you guys are doing so well at your store. The other guy who refuses to switch off Jund and has been playing it for years hasn't seemed to go better than 2-2 in a long while, from what I've observed
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
I have no idea what in the hell you're going on about lately, Vindicate isn't modern legal.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Thats my ******* point, he scooped after everyone around told him it wasn't modern legal
Thursday night modern around 20 players? It was kinda brutal. I faced a Mardu midrange, Skred, then Mardu Nahiri with possiblity storm/emrakul package. Pretty spicy stuff.
In one game I opened with T1 IOK, T2 Thoughtseize to strip his hand of relevant plays. He topdecked a T3 Blood Moon anyway. Bad feels
The LGS is pretty competitive though (I saw counters company, eldratron, amulet titan etc). Doesn't seem friendly to Jund that's for sure.
@wtyyy: Do you run 2 Swamps and 1 Forest as your basic lands? If you do not run 2 Forests, I would advise going for 4 Verdants, 4 Bloodstained and 1 Foothills. You want black way more now, again because of Push. In the past fetching for a basic swamp on turn 1 was not the ideal thing to do, but with the inclusion of push, this play is reasonable now.
Yes, 2 Swamps and 1 Forest. I just feel very soft to blood moon, short of 2 decays and 1 pulse I have no way to getting rid of it if they top deck it
Then I would play 2 Swamp and 2 Forest and 4 Verdant, 3 Bloodstained and 2 Wooded.
Speaking of Scavenging Ooze, does anybody really believe it's worth a slot anymore? I'm hardly ever excited to draw one and even in matchups where it should excel, it's extremely underwhelming. I feel like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet has a similar role (Lifegain, GY stuff), but just does it a little better. I know some people are going to scald me for not playing Ooze simply because they don't like change and Ooze has been a staple for years, but I challenge you to really think about how good that card is and report back.
Recap: Replaced Ooze with Grim Flayer and am really liking it.
It largely depends on what decks you see in your area. My local area is very midrange heavy and Scavenging Ooze tends to be a rock star.