Great job, rnm32! It sounds like the deck was running like it’s supposed to. Nothing feels better than when your removal is lining up properly, you’re landing your threats and your Bobs are sticking, and you’re effectively tearing apart your opponent’s game plan. It’s like a drug.
We may have a right/wrong half-of-the-deck dilemma, but it’s nice to be reminded that our right half is still super powerful and our individual cards are still the tits.
Obviously your play was tight too, or else you wouldn’t have had the outcome you did. Right cards or not, this deck (especially in the context of this unforgiving meta) is brutal to sloppy pilots. Also, good to hear your GDS MU has improved. Right on, man.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN: BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG EDH: BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Thanks for the input on the grixis shadow matchup, I followed @yriel and @kastermester advice and was able to beat them 2-0, obviously it's a really small sample size since it's only one match but i'll keep on following the sideboard plan for future matches.
I was able to 5-0 a league, my list can be found here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1522038#paper
Some tweaks I made before the league were: Adding another fatal push to the main because I felt the card had become better with an increase in ur phoenix and spirits decks online. I ended up cutting my 2 copies of anger of the gods because I didn't really feel like I needed them all too much, I added the fourth LOTV and the fourth fatal push in the board as replacements. The MTGO replay is bugged so I'd usually go into more detail but I'm just gonna write the matchups from memory. My matchups were:
W: 2-0 vs Hollow One
W: 2-0 vs Dredge
W: 2-1 vs Dredge
W: 2-1 vs UB Mill
W: 2-0 vs Bant Spirits
My opponent lead on flameblade adept on turn one, so i played a cliffs, passed and then bolted the adept when he cast inquiry. Fortunately they didn't put any hollow ones into play I so played goyf and passed. My opponent played another flameblade and passed so I IOk'ed a gobline lore and pushed the adept. I was able to finish the game with the goyf and I guess I got pretty lucky since my opponent didn't get any free hollow one's into play.
For the postboard game: -3 LOTV, -1 BBE, -1 ooze, -3 push, +2 NS, +2 SE, +2 CB, +1 Cage, +1 AG
I remember killing an adept with bolt, my opponent inquiries and discard phoenix, land, land and I discard a trophy, land and spellbomb, but I drew another one so I exile their GY and they just pass. I play goyf into goyf and they concede.
Match 2 I'm up against dredge and I IOK away a faithless looting leaving them with shriekhorn. They dont mill a dredger and put a narcomeba into play. I'm able to land ooze with 3 activation per turn and I'm able to exile away all the relevant dredgers so they concede game one.
For the postboard game: -3 AT, -3 LOTV, -2 push and +1 cage, +2 NS, +2 SE, +1 Kalitas, +2 CB
Turn one my opponent loots and put imp and land into GY, I surgical it away and find that their hand is pretty weak, plus I have 2 goyfs in hand. My opponent is able to get 2 bloodghasts on board and tries racing me but I already have double goyf beating them down and the double bolt for the win.
Match 3 I'm up against dredge again and I can't really remember all the details for this game one but I thought It was looking pretty rough for me until I drew ooze, exiled all relevant dredgers and then used my removal for his creatures which I were able to exile and they scooped.
For the postboard game: -3 AT, -3 LOTV, -2 push and +1 cage, +2 NS, +2 SE, +1 Kalitas, +2 CB
Game two I mull to five looking for some form on GY hate and they're able to get double amalgam plus a bloodghast so I scoop.
Game three my opponent mulled to 5 and kept on drawing naturally to try and discard a big dredger, but I landed a bob on turn two which drew me into goyfs and an ooze so by the time my opponent was able to discard to hand size they were already dead.
Match 4 I'm up against UB Mill, and I IOK away a fatal push, land bob and get a goyf into play while making sure not to crack my one fetch so they can't archive trap me and turn on their visions of beyond.
For the postboard game I side pretty light since it feels like a good matchup: -3 push, +2 CB and +1 LOTV.
I don't remember too much other than removing a hedron crab, then my opponent lands another, and eventually field of ruin's my land so we have to search, casts trap and visions, lands other crab and i'm dead. I decide to add back +2 push to deal with the crab.
Game three my opponent mulls to five and I take an ensnaring bridge, land bob, play goyf and my opponent concedes.
Match 5 I'm up against bant spirits. I play a cliffs and pass, they lead on noble which I push and then I TS away a company. I land a goyf, they tap out and play drogskol which I immediately bolt, and land another goyf which both end the game quickly.
For the postboard game I: -2 bob, -2 lotv, -2 TS and +2 CB, +1, +1 cage, +1 EE
My opponent leads on noble again so I push it. They tap out for supreme phantom so on my turn I bolt it and land a cage. Turn three they play drogskol so I bolt it and land a bob at a pretty healthy life total of 15. My opponent reflector mages bob so I take 2, play goyf which they spell queller and then they land a drogskol. I'm able to play bob after taking a hit, a I reveal push and draw another push so I'm able to push the captain and ten the queller, get my goyf back and my opponent uses their last card to path goyf. We trade hits with each other, bob draws me land into land and my opponent is able to land geist. At this point I'm at 4 and they're at 7 so I'm hoping not to reveal a BBE. Bob reveals explosives and draws me into ravine, I wipe their board, attack for 2 and play ravine. My opponent draws and scoops.
Sorry if my report doesn't have as much detail in some spots, I would go back and watch the replays but everytime I try to it says there's an error and a window keep on popping up and blocks the middle of the screen while the replay is going on. Feel free to ask any questions, FlyingDelver's SB guide was super helpful to make sure I was boarding correctly.
That's awesome man. Grats on your 5-0 finish. I've been playing a 1 of Raking Canopy in the sideboard since flyers are pretty dominant in my meta. Stops a top decked mantis rider, poops on spirits, and it plays well with anger so you can stabilize a little better on the ground.
Touching on what pinecones said, when Jund fires on all cylinders its super addicting. A win with Jund just feels so good because you've had to earn it (in most cases). Being that we play fair magic, we sign up for the variance game and it can really suck sometimes. But for the times it doesnt, makes up for any loss :).
I agree that Ooze should kept in against Hollow One and Bobs are a fine cut to make. Kalitas surely needs to come in. However, Surgical is good vs them imo. The reason is, as they are siding out explosive enablers like Inquiry, their plan is to actually outgrind us, which they very well are capable of. And therefore I think they do not and should not side out Bloodghasts against us. And Surgical is the best answer to Bloodghasts, for which reason I would bring it in for sure.
If you look at the Hollow One guides you can find, nobody ever cuts Bloodghasts against us:
Bloodghasts only get sided out against Scales, Humans and Spirits usually. Those are matchups where the Hollow One player wants to be fast/not grind and Bloodghasts doesn't attack well.
However, I think the card is interesting but overall pulse seems better. Instant woukd be the only real appeal and I am not sure we want a 3 mana one here.
Could be, my French is pretty rusty - "Affres". I agree with your overall view, it warrants testing though.
I think it would be fairly safe to write this card off. The mana cost is quite restrictive and impossible to cast on 3 mana if you have a forest or treetop village. Not to mention that it’s more narrow than both trophy and pulse, and more expensive than dreadbore. My advice would be don’t waste your time. Hero’s downfall is possibly better just because it’s easier to cast and the artifact clause is pretty redundant with the tools we have available already.
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Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
The card is awkward in mana. It's almost just worse than pulse.
Unless standard gives Jund a removal like Trophy without the setback going against us, answers isn't really what Jund needs.
Jund needs either a broken creature or something that gives some amazing card filtering. The instant and sorceries for the most part isn't what this archetype needs anymore---of course unless WOTC power creeps and give something straight up better than bolt and push.
The card is awkward in mana. It's almost just worse than pulse.
Unless standard gives Jund a removal like Trophy without the setback going against us, answers isn't really what Jund needs.
Jund needs either a broken creature or something that gives some amazing card filtering. The instant and sorceries for the most part isn't what this archetype needs anymore---of course unless WOTC power creeps and give something straight up better than bolt and push.
A good payoff for Looting would also work I guess, since Looting would then be playable in Jund.
Sure a nice payoff for looting and hollow one, dredge, phoenix can be more powerful !
By the way, i am quite disappointed about collective brutality, the card is not bad obviously but i have the feeling i's not so powerful like before, too much time the card seems just ok except against mono red phoenix, burn and storm where it's very good.
How about a BG payoff card for looting then?
Collective Brutality seems more important to Rock than particularly Jund. It fills more roles there, I think. The small removal is actually helpful there.
Secondly, what are opinions regarding maindeck nihil spellbomb to enable grim flayer? Is it too clunky?
I guess my general question is: what’s the best delirium enabler?
One does see Nihil Spellbombs in lists both main-deck and side-board.
Mishra's Bauble was the go-to back when Abzan Traverse was a thing. I'm not sure Jund wants that but most Junders don't seem to like Grim Flayer anyway.
@PraiseTheKappa : you can find a link to FlyingDelver's article on BGX manabase, it's very good if you want a consistent and safe manabase.
The general consensus is 3 manlands with 24 lands and 4 manlands with 25 lands, i am on 4 raging ravine and it's ok up to now but start with 3 is safer . Moreover, i always hate this second overgrown tomb but general consensus is 2.
Maybe, if you want to start BGX now The Rock is a better choice, maybe.
If you want Jund you can take a look on https://twitter.com/thequietfish and http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/125422.
On your current 3 surgical extraction seems a lot (not too much just a lot) you really want win to against KCI, phoenix. 0 brutality is quite sad and general consensus on number of discard MD is 6.
Guys thanks a lot for your feedback. I ended up making some of the changes mentioned and my goal was to not loose to Mono White Eldrazi and Taxes. I proxied up that deck up and played a ton of it against my son. It turns out that the Orb isn't good enough against this deck as everyone mentioned. This matchup is very difficult for Jund, in my opinion because their big threats are generally bigger than ours. I actually found that running Fulminator Mage's along with as much removal as possible and finally putting in Stormbreath Dragon helped a lot. The Fulminators took out a lot of their non basic lands and the combo of that and Kolaghan's Command to bring them back could really slow the deck down. It, in my opinion is still not a good matchup but the odds go more to even.
Now I went to FNM, ready to face this deck and...
Round 1: (Dredge)
Not at all ready to face dredge and laughing at the fact that I use to play Junk and had a perfect sideboard against it. Played Junk there for about a year and it isn't a good spot for Lingering Souls. Lost 0-2. Should have won one game as it was my mistake and I won't make that mistake again. Also didn't know Dredge was in this meta. This is a tough matchup as his nut draw is really fast.
Round 2: (Jank)
A guy running a fun deck that could combo out huge "fish" on his round 2. He won one but hand disruption really hurt him as I took out his combo pieces later. Great guy and the deck looks fun, he just had a bad matchup
Round 3: (The guy I prepared for... but he ran a different deck!
He was running a new deck that looked like a blast to play. Jund did it's Jund thing and I won 2-1. The last game I mulled to 5 and still won, so that shows that this deck can mulligan well.
Round 4: - Not enough people tonight so there wasn't a round 4. This was probably because it was right after Christmas.
My thoughts on Jund so far. I am generally not a fan of decks that run a bunch of lands. I HATE HATE HATE drawing 3 lands in a row, just to watch my opponent kill me. I use to play 4C Death Shadow and it somewhat mitigated it, but this deck suffers from that problem. I think this is a problem with Magic in general though and probably while I will check out Force of Will. Having said that, this deck is a lot more complex (in my opinion) and has more outs if things go wrong. I realize it isn't in the best spot in the "real" meta now but will do just fine in mine. I also realize that I need some Leyline of the Voids. One last thing is that as much as I like BBE, it really didn't factor in much at all. I actually lost to Dredge because I played it instead of just eating more with Scooze. I thought I already lost so I played it for fun.
The light of hope is growing really dim for this archetype, which is saddening me greatly.
In other news, I'm hoping there are going to be cards with Spectacle that Jund could make use of. Spectacle as a mechanic has some promise.
Well, I look at things differently. As more and more threats and answers enter Modern, what I see is a move from 3 to 2 color decks: Jeskai splitting into UW Control for hard control and some UR Control for Bolt-Snap-Bolt and/or Combo finishers, while Jund is becoming BG Rock thanks to the power of Assassin's Trophy, or even GR Blood Moon aggro. Mardu Pyromancer is one card away from becoming a 2 color deck (a BR replacement for Lingering Souls).
Where would you all say Jund sits on the tier list right now? I'm looking to pick the deck back up again but the last two times I tried I just felt like I was always playing at a disadvantage.
The light of hope is growing really dim for this archetype, which is saddening me greatly.
In other news, I'm hoping there are going to be cards with Spectacle that Jund could make use of. Spectacle as a mechanic has some promise.
I think spectacle is quite hard for us to enable. It rewards proactive play which is stronger in aggro decks usually. If it would enable upon dealing dmg to ourselves then I think it would work nicely. But not sure how we can consistantly enable spectacle in our deck other than wasting a bolt or being ahead on board already.
We may have a right/wrong half-of-the-deck dilemma, but it’s nice to be reminded that our right half is still super powerful and our individual cards are still the tits.
Obviously your play was tight too, or else you wouldn’t have had the outcome you did. Right cards or not, this deck (especially in the context of this unforgiving meta) is brutal to sloppy pilots. Also, good to hear your GDS MU has improved. Right on, man.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
That's awesome man. Grats on your 5-0 finish. I've been playing a 1 of Raking Canopy in the sideboard since flyers are pretty dominant in my meta. Stops a top decked mantis rider, poops on spirits, and it plays well with anger so you can stabilize a little better on the ground.
Touching on what pinecones said, when Jund fires on all cylinders its super addicting. A win with Jund just feels so good because you've had to earn it (in most cases). Being that we play fair magic, we sign up for the variance game and it can really suck sometimes. But for the times it doesnt, makes up for any loss :).
If you look at the Hollow One guides you can find, nobody ever cuts Bloodghasts against us:
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/hollow-one-in-modern/
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/a-guide-to-black-red-hollow-one-in-modern/
Bloodghasts only get sided out against Scales, Humans and Spirits usually. Those are matchups where the Hollow One player wants to be fast/not grind and Bloodghasts doesn't attack well.
However, I think the card is interesting but overall pulse seems better. Instant woukd be the only real appeal and I am not sure we want a 3 mana one here.
I think it would be fairly safe to write this card off. The mana cost is quite restrictive and impossible to cast on 3 mana if you have a forest or treetop village. Not to mention that it’s more narrow than both trophy and pulse, and more expensive than dreadbore. My advice would be don’t waste your time. Hero’s downfall is possibly better just because it’s easier to cast and the artifact clause is pretty redundant with the tools we have available already.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
Unless standard gives Jund a removal like Trophy without the setback going against us, answers isn't really what Jund needs.
Jund needs either a broken creature or something that gives some amazing card filtering. The instant and sorceries for the most part isn't what this archetype needs anymore---of course unless WOTC power creeps and give something straight up better than bolt and push.
A good payoff for Looting would also work I guess, since Looting would then be playable in Jund.
This completely depends on your spells you run. The manacurve depicts the manabase.
Jund is falling in meta shares while Shadow decks are creeping up.
The Phoenix decks are changing the meta though, so this actually seems very beneficial for Jund and Rock.
How about a BG payoff card for looting then?
Collective Brutality seems more important to Rock than particularly Jund. It fills more roles there, I think. The small removal is actually helpful there.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Secondly, what are opinions regarding maindeck nihil spellbomb to enable grim flayer? Is it too clunky?
I guess my general question is: what’s the best delirium enabler?
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
One does see Nihil Spellbombs in lists both main-deck and side-board.
Mishra's Bauble was the go-to back when Abzan Traverse was a thing. I'm not sure Jund wants that but most Junders don't seem to like Grim Flayer anyway.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Guys thanks a lot for your feedback. I ended up making some of the changes mentioned and my goal was to not loose to Mono White Eldrazi and Taxes. I proxied up that deck up and played a ton of it against my son. It turns out that the Orb isn't good enough against this deck as everyone mentioned. This matchup is very difficult for Jund, in my opinion because their big threats are generally bigger than ours. I actually found that running Fulminator Mage's along with as much removal as possible and finally putting in Stormbreath Dragon helped a lot. The Fulminators took out a lot of their non basic lands and the combo of that and Kolaghan's Command to bring them back could really slow the deck down. It, in my opinion is still not a good matchup but the odds go more to even.
Now I went to FNM, ready to face this deck and...
Round 1: (Dredge)
Not at all ready to face dredge and laughing at the fact that I use to play Junk and had a perfect sideboard against it. Played Junk there for about a year and it isn't a good spot for Lingering Souls. Lost 0-2. Should have won one game as it was my mistake and I won't make that mistake again. Also didn't know Dredge was in this meta. This is a tough matchup as his nut draw is really fast.
Round 2: (Jank)
A guy running a fun deck that could combo out huge "fish" on his round 2. He won one but hand disruption really hurt him as I took out his combo pieces later. Great guy and the deck looks fun, he just had a bad matchup
Round 3: (The guy I prepared for... but he ran a different deck!
He was running a new deck that looked like a blast to play. Jund did it's Jund thing and I won 2-1. The last game I mulled to 5 and still won, so that shows that this deck can mulligan well.
Round 4: - Not enough people tonight so there wasn't a round 4. This was probably because it was right after Christmas.
My thoughts on Jund so far. I am generally not a fan of decks that run a bunch of lands. I HATE HATE HATE drawing 3 lands in a row, just to watch my opponent kill me. I use to play 4C Death Shadow and it somewhat mitigated it, but this deck suffers from that problem. I think this is a problem with Magic in general though and probably while I will check out Force of Will. Having said that, this deck is a lot more complex (in my opinion) and has more outs if things go wrong. I realize it isn't in the best spot in the "real" meta now but will do just fine in mine. I also realize that I need some Leyline of the Voids. One last thing is that as much as I like BBE, it really didn't factor in much at all. I actually lost to Dredge because I played it instead of just eating more with Scooze. I thought I already lost so I played it for fun.
How come? And where did you read that?
EDIT: Just saw the SCG article, yeah thats sad, but she will be a great addition to the play design team for sure.
In other news, I'm hoping there are going to be cards with Spectacle that Jund could make use of. Spectacle as a mechanic has some promise.
Well, I look at things differently. As more and more threats and answers enter Modern, what I see is a move from 3 to 2 color decks: Jeskai splitting into UW Control for hard control and some UR Control for Bolt-Snap-Bolt and/or Combo finishers, while Jund is becoming BG Rock thanks to the power of Assassin's Trophy, or even GR Blood Moon aggro. Mardu Pyromancer is one card away from becoming a 2 color deck (a BR replacement for Lingering Souls).
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
I think spectacle is quite hard for us to enable. It rewards proactive play which is stronger in aggro decks usually. If it would enable upon dealing dmg to ourselves then I think it would work nicely. But not sure how we can consistantly enable spectacle in our deck other than wasting a bolt or being ahead on board already.