That is a super interesting list! What are the Nature's Claim and Bitterblossom for? I used to run Bitterblossom against Eldrazi things and stuff that's super heavy on removal (except Lightning Bolt).
Also very surprised you lost to Tron with your setup. 3 Alpine Moon and any amount of pressure is usually enough to wrap that up quickly so how did you end up losing to them?
Well, to start, i played a PPTQ to same place yesterday and the metagame was (among 48 players) :
5 UW Control, 5 vizier company (include me), 3 humans, 3 burn, 2 tron, 2 scapeshift, 4 KCI, 0 affinity, 1 storm, 2 mardu, 2 hollow one, 1 spirits, 0 vengevine aggro, 0 BGX.
I think i prefear play jund than vizier company in this kind of metagame so i switch my deck.
The 6 slots in side board are normally : 4 leyline of the void and 2 fulminator mage. But because of this metagame,i put : 2 bitterblossom, 1 duress, 1 alpine moon and 2 grafiddger's cage instead ( i didn't have access to a lot of cards).
I did that :
R1 Tron 1-2 (loose on a big missplay, really bad target with nature's claim)
R2 RW Hatebears 2-0 (my opponent did 2 full)
R3 mono white control 2-0
R4 KCI 2-1 (he plays the deck since not a long time, he should wins)
R5 Mardu 2-1 (i know the guy, average player of midrange)
R6 ID against hardened scales
Top 8 (in order) : Affinity, 8-Rack, Burn, Grixis Death Shadow, Tron, Jund (me), Spirits (my team mate which played the same vizier list yesterday) and Hardened Scales.
I win 2-1 against Burn, very close match.
I win 2-1 against 8-Rack, i easy win 2 games and i loose one by playing 2 bitterblossom and my oppo plays ensnaring bridge.
I loose the final agains tron 0-2, hard one :(.
Like i said it before, i have tested this kind of list with 60 xmage games (not a lot :/) and i am a huge fan of kolaghan's command. In theory i don't like a lot of things but in practice some of these choices are not too badfor me. Just to say i am not sure at all about my list.
If anyone is interest i can detail any choice, feedback, etc....
Thanks for reading !
I like that list as well, especially since KCommand is a very potent card right now. However, I would love to see some LtLH in place of LoTV in there. I think this way you can create a really strong grinding strategy.
I think the meta is diverse and reactive strategy is poor right now more than ever. jund is more proactive than mardu and can close games faster.
I don't agree that reactive strategies are poor right now, simply by thinking about UW Control being the second best deck in the format that doesn't quite align. I think Jund being good right now is due to it being okay in battling against UW (I think due to BBE and mardu being more susceptible to GY hate better than mardu right now) while being more or less cold to GY hate. And people are really likeing to jam their Leylines right now, from which Jund benefits a little bit.
I really like Lavamancer main for the meddling mage argument. On a general note though, I think I would still always play 4 bolts before I would play more pushes. Meddling mage is not that problematic compared to the fact that in the current modern diverse format, bolt is so much stronger than push. I am willing to make this small sacrifice for the overal better performing card. And we are almost "Mono removal" anyway, so i think we have plenty of other ways to deal with creatures from humans to be blown out by meddling mage.
I really like Lavamancer main for the meddling mage argument. On a general note though, I think I would still always play 4 bolts before I would play more pushes. Meddling mage is not that problematic compared to the fact that in the current modern diverse format, bolt is so much stronger than push. I am willing to make this small sacrifice for the overal better performing card. And we are almost "Mono removal" anyway, so i think we have plenty of other ways to deal with creatures from humans to be blown out by meddling mage.
I agree. its also a better cascade spell for bbe. I think that's the reason why we have 1-off terminate, dreadbore, maelstrom pulse, fatal push because its not a good cascade spell.
Don't get me wrong, I think KCommand is a great card. But I don't think our deck wants four of them. We need more diversity in our spells. Dropping Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse seems questionable when we're trying to have a distribution of spells that can actively remove any issue.
What's your reason on playing the 4 Kolaghan's Command and no Pluse/Decay?
I do agree we want maximum 3 LoTV right now. You can either replace the fourth copy with LtLH or KCommand (they serve similar purposes). Also I think running no Decay is absolutely fine, its one of the weakest cards in our deck. But I am also quite keen on 1 Pulse main, just for the catch all in a diverse format.
I am even down to 2 LoTV and up to 2 LtLH main, just because I just love LtLH right now, often times more than LoTV (and all that alongside 3 KCommands and 1 Pulse main).
Yeah, its quite rough. I think with knowledge, metagame adjustments and skill those numbers can at least be shifted towards ~50 % I feel. But overall, yeah, I definitely understand why this is the status quo.
Just dropping in to say I played Jund last night for the first time and had a great time. The deck was so much more fun than what I had been playing in the past. I ended up at 2-3. My losses were to Abzan Traverse, Titan Shift and Bogles. Shift seems terrible, bogles player has leyline prior to the start of both games. Abzan was close, but I didn’t have great draws.
On top of the issues that have already been recognized, there's just a lot of other problems with the way they gathered and used their raw data. I wouldn't attempt to derive anything meaningful from that display of data.
I'm planning on going to GP Hong Kong next week. I've been practicing on Jund ever since the BBE unbanning. I know it is probably not the best deck right now, but I don't feel comfortable enough switching to UW Control in this short amount of time. I just switched over to the Tracker version of Jund...
But I still feel like so many matchups are based around the SB lottery. Playing in a couple larger tournaments in the past month in Taiwan, I kind of expect more people to be bringing UW/Jeskai along with UW/Bant Spirits, and some Hollow Ones.
Hence the 2 PWs in the board along with the Needle. The one thing I am concerned about is my Affinity matchup with no Ancient Grudge. I could be dropping the Baloths for a Grudge and Engineered Explosives because I'm not sure if a Baloth is good in the Hollow One matchup because people board out Inquiries against Jund. An EE may also be needed if I think Bogles could also be back. Who the hell knows in a tournament of 800 people, and me with no byes? Any other comments on my maindeck (24 vs. 25 land, 3/1 Lili split, no 2nd Maelstrom Pulse) is appreciated.
On top of the issues that have already been recognized, there's just a lot of other problems with the way they gathered and used their raw data. I wouldn't attempt to derive anything meaningful from that display of data.
Sure but you can't just ignore them, it's like ten guys say you "i failed my GP with jund", i read it like that. Moreover my choice was between Jund and Counters Coco so that's help me.
Actually I really do think people should ignore it. The flaws with that presentation are seriously bad. If you understand anything about statistics, you would know to ignore those results.
Bad modelling means the results are usually bogus. Having a pool too small for the model they chose is even worse. They literally just manufactured a poor-quality dump of numbers. If you have an advanced degree that deals with this, I have a hard time understanding how you're cool with their results as-is.
Just saw this...drop all the maelstrom pulse, abrupt decay, fatal push or other removal for four of this. This is the real deal! Any permanent! Land, creature, enchantment, artifact, planeswalker, you name it! This improves even our Tron matchup game 1. It's nuts!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GBR May the Jund'ish side of the Force be with you! GBR
Also very surprised you lost to Tron with your setup. 3 Alpine Moon and any amount of pressure is usually enough to wrap that up quickly so how did you end up losing to them?
I like that list as well, especially since KCommand is a very potent card right now. However, I would love to see some LtLH in place of LoTV in there. I think this way you can create a really strong grinding strategy.
My personal list looks as follows right now:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures [14]
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Dreadbore
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Damping Sphere
I don't agree that reactive strategies are poor right now, simply by thinking about UW Control being the second best deck in the format that doesn't quite align. I think Jund being good right now is due to it being okay in battling against UW (I think due to BBE and mardu being more susceptible to GY hate better than mardu right now) while being more or less cold to GY hate. And people are really likeing to jam their Leylines right now, from which Jund benefits a little bit.
I agree. its also a better cascade spell for bbe. I think that's the reason why we have 1-off terminate, dreadbore, maelstrom pulse, fatal push because its not a good cascade spell.
What's your reason on playing the 4 Kolaghan's Command and no Pluse/Decay?
I bet I can guess: Increasing the odds of hitting a good Cascade. It would probably be nuts to play a set of Kommand without a set of BBE.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I am even down to 2 LoTV and up to 2 LtLH main, just because I just love LtLH right now, often times more than LoTV (and all that alongside 3 KCommands and 1 Pulse main).
On top of the issues that have already been recognized, there's just a lot of other problems with the way they gathered and used their raw data. I wouldn't attempt to derive anything meaningful from that display of data.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Stomping Ground
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
2 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tireless Tracker
But I still feel like so many matchups are based around the SB lottery. Playing in a couple larger tournaments in the past month in Taiwan, I kind of expect more people to be bringing UW/Jeskai along with UW/Bant Spirits, and some Hollow Ones.
The sideboard now...
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Languish
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Pithing Needle
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
Hence the 2 PWs in the board along with the Needle. The one thing I am concerned about is my Affinity matchup with no Ancient Grudge. I could be dropping the Baloths for a Grudge and Engineered Explosives because I'm not sure if a Baloth is good in the Hollow One matchup because people board out Inquiries against Jund. An EE may also be needed if I think Bogles could also be back. Who the hell knows in a tournament of 800 people, and me with no byes? Any other comments on my maindeck (24 vs. 25 land, 3/1 Lili split, no 2nd Maelstrom Pulse) is appreciated.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/13649 - My all foil cube.
Actually I really do think people should ignore it. The flaws with that presentation are seriously bad. If you understand anything about statistics, you would know to ignore those results.
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]