I think is really favoured right now. with the modern challenge being all uw control variants, its starting to shape up to be a meta after the unbanning of bbe and jace. flooding is still an issue for jund and faithless looting could fix that. bob and faithless looting is really good combo, the extra lands you get can be used to filter draws. if only bbe puts a card in hand instead of draw, that would be a great scenario. or any creatures that draw like bob, I think that's why people are putting bedlam reveler but we cant play many because we don't play a lot of spells.
Hey guys this weekend I played jund in the SCG Dallas classic. Where I went 6-0-2 in swiss and made top 8. Sadly I lost to tron 0-2 in top 8. These were my matches. If I owned a EE I would've played it over the second anger prolly. 3 scooze is the TRUTH. I heard burn was a bad match up? I've only been playing jund like 2 months so.
R1 Burn 2-0
R2 UW Miracles 2-1
R3 Burn 2-0
R4 UW Wizards 2-0
R5 Burn 2-0
R6 Austin Collins on Storm 2-0
R7 ID with Bridgevine
R8 ID with Living End
Top 8
Lose Tron 0-2.
Nah I feel like I played very well. I didn't misplay I ever felt. I felt I took the correct lines. I had a very solid SB. I didn't think I was gonna play that much burn funny enough. I mean I didn't play vs a hard deck (or so I believe) in Swiss so? Feels strong!
Burn is not a bad matchup, its a dice roll at worst, but I always have felt Burn to be slightly favourable actually. At least I have won more games vs Burn than I have lost vs it. But you can loose to it, no doubt about that.
Nah I feel like I played very well. I didn't misplay I ever felt. I felt I took the correct lines. I had a very solid SB. I didn't think I was gonna play that much burn funny enough. I mean I didn't play vs a hard deck (or so I believe) in Swiss so? Feels strong!
Well done. Your IDs were pretty favorable for you - Although winnable, Living End is a nightmare (even with 3 maindeck Scoozes and 2 spellbombs in SB) and Bridgevine can easily turn into a loss if you don't find what you need in time. I hate Tron full stop, feel for you there, pal - although it seems like you're packing a decent SB against them with: 2 Damping Spheres, 3 Fulminators and 2 Ancient Grudges. Your 75 seems well prepared for the metagame as a whole for sure.
Thank you my friend. I feel the SB that I came up with I just wanted to be able to play vs most of the tier 1/2 decks in the format. It would've sucked it I played vs say like boggles not having EE could've sucked. Also with no changes to the banlist I'm sure KCI will sky rocket as a deck now more then ever.
How are we right now in the camp of 3 or 4 Liliana of the Veil's? I've always advocated 4 because of the raw strength of the card but I'm noticing most topping lists these days run 3 and a Liliana the Last Hope. Are there any compelling arguments one way or another?
I am actually liking Liliana of the Veil less against a myriad of decks, including control decks. It's really strange, and I can't exactly put into words why it seems like this. I just know that top deck wars doesn't actually feel like where we want to be without some setup to have the last threat cast or played.
yeah control decks cant be torn apart by a LoTV that easily anymore. they got so many powerful tools that I am actually very scared now of a situation where both us are in topdeck mode, i feel more often than not control simply has the better position now here.
In addition to the thoughtprocess I posted earlier about the state of Jund, it seems linear decks are quite dominant or at least more and more dominant (when looking at the top 8 of GP Prague). I am thinking of lowering the curve a bit more again.
what do you guys think of replacing bob with tireless tracker? would it help against aggressive strategies? it also does well with high land count build. and sometimes on topdeck mode, its a guaranteed/immediate draw. it also can dodge bolt in some cases.
These facts doesn't validate anything but some results can do that better.
@Brightmist : i think you underestimate a lot the mana cost of tracker, i give you the same arguments than FlyingDelver before but bob is a tempo card, he bring you more answer very fast where you need to play tracker after answers. So yes tracker doesn't cost hp but doesn't cost you time, doyou prefear spend time or hp now ?
My 2 cts : i tested with tracker instead of bob, an other list with bob+tracker and no lili, an other with blood moon, hazoret, no lili no bob and tracker....and my best test result is with classic list (3bob, 4 lili, 4 BBE), something like 80% of win where others are 50% at best.
In theory i would agree with Brightmist but in practice that's not work in my test.
And your personal (not very well logged) record does just as much as LEH's testing. If you're going to be critical, let's try not do it through a hypocritical lens.
i think u cant just switch bob with tracker without any changes in the mainboard. as you can see the list GB list thats popping up right now that without bob. they realize that they are missing a 2 drop so they put in a 9 early removal to fight the aggresive matchups. we can immitate the same thing. play control until turn 3.
also good points is cascading with tracker is better than bob. and you dont have to crack the clue right away. people think is mana intensive but the card advantage is always there and use it only when you need it. mana intensive is only a problem when you're getting pressured. when you're getting pressured then don't crack the clue.
@Chaos021
In my personnal opinion, i just try to say write a primer or play jund since begin modern don't give, for me, a legitimacy or a proof of your skill level. If he says i top 8 any SCG, top32 a GP, did some PT or i don't know why, that's a better way to justify his skill level.
Maybe i understand bad what he says and he didn't refer to his skill level.
In my previous post didn't say i am a good jund player in my last post, i say i test some lists and my choice follow my results, nothing more.
Maybe i should insist more on "my test", "my choice", "my opinion", i never say it's the right choice for everyone.
Why "not very well logged" ?
I think that's a very poor way of determining anything relevant to competitive magic. Tournament finishes don't usually mean much. All it tells me is field representation and who got lucky (for top 8). I'm more interested in how Jund generally plays out against individual opponents. If I have a relatively good game against them pre-board or if there's something they can abuse to run me over post-board, that matters way more to me. The only reason that the results would ever matter to me is if you have a run of success. Also, in this vein, the player's skill level and the level of opponents does matter but that's much harder to gauge. Having a lot of experience and generally playing consistently well does matter a lot more to me. If all you care about is whether or not they made top 8, you must have a really low evaluation of many of the people here. If so, why bother continuing your involvement here?
Had anyone ever considered ore tried a version of Jund that's super controlling? I'm thinking about some number of Goblin Dark-Dwellers, no Bobs, 4 Tireless Trackers and a ton of removal? Maybe even some delve threats.
Had anyone ever considered ore tried a version of Jund that's super controlling? I'm thinking about some number of Goblin Dark-Dwellers, no Bobs, 4 Tireless Trackers and a ton of removal? Maybe even some delve threats.
I think this is hard to do. Practically it would either mean you have to pack a ton of extra removal into the main to be able to draw enough removal for aggro decks naturally since you need an ongoing stream of answers to keept up. And since you don't have Bob generating tempo, you arent really able to draw extra cards besides the included endgame bombs.
And if we onclude more removal, naturally certain matchups become worse to add.
The question is for me whether the focus on engame really pays for itself. I mean in that case we should really be able to have the best endgame agaist all decks. And against control this could be tough I guess.
But I like Dark Dwellers, its a great card I used to run in Jund at some point actually.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/123167
R1 Burn 2-0
R2 UW Miracles 2-1
R3 Burn 2-0
R4 UW Wizards 2-0
R5 Burn 2-0
R6 Austin Collins on Storm 2-0
R7 ID with Bridgevine
R8 ID with Living End
Top 8
Lose Tron 0-2.
But seriously, do you feel like you were just lucky for the classic or that Jund is somewhat solid now?
EDIT: It had to be Tron =(
Thank you my friend. I feel the SB that I came up with I just wanted to be able to play vs most of the tier 1/2 decks in the format. It would've sucked it I played vs say like boggles not having EE could've sucked. Also with no changes to the banlist I'm sure KCI will sky rocket as a deck now more then ever.
Of course, upon big interest from many I created a server for all the decks I made primers for, including Jund. The link is in the primer and here:
https://discord.gg/guSNj7s
Thank you much!
And your personal (not very well logged) record does just as much as LEH's testing. If you're going to be critical, let's try not do it through a hypocritical lens.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1293578#paper
also good points is cascading with tracker is better than bob. and you dont have to crack the clue right away. people think is mana intensive but the card advantage is always there and use it only when you need it. mana intensive is only a problem when you're getting pressured. when you're getting pressured then don't crack the clue.
I think that's a very poor way of determining anything relevant to competitive magic. Tournament finishes don't usually mean much. All it tells me is field representation and who got lucky (for top 8). I'm more interested in how Jund generally plays out against individual opponents. If I have a relatively good game against them pre-board or if there's something they can abuse to run me over post-board, that matters way more to me. The only reason that the results would ever matter to me is if you have a run of success. Also, in this vein, the player's skill level and the level of opponents does matter but that's much harder to gauge. Having a lot of experience and generally playing consistently well does matter a lot more to me. If all you care about is whether or not they made top 8, you must have a really low evaluation of many of the people here. If so, why bother continuing your involvement here?
I think this is hard to do. Practically it would either mean you have to pack a ton of extra removal into the main to be able to draw enough removal for aggro decks naturally since you need an ongoing stream of answers to keept up. And since you don't have Bob generating tempo, you arent really able to draw extra cards besides the included endgame bombs.
And if we onclude more removal, naturally certain matchups become worse to add.
The question is for me whether the focus on engame really pays for itself. I mean in that case we should really be able to have the best endgame agaist all decks. And against control this could be tough I guess.
But I like Dark Dwellers, its a great card I used to run in Jund at some point actually.