I would like to know what`s considered the jund stock list?, just so that i can start?
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From Supernatural:
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
I would like to know what`s considered the jund stock list?, just so that i can start?
Start with the list stated in the primer, its quite standard and covers all your bases. Thats the reason why it is in the primer, it should give people a starting point from where to begin
But don't hesitate to adjust things on the fly. Jund is a customizable deck that needs to be adjusted to your meta and playstyle. If you have any specific questions please ask!
Just finished the video (Reid’s “Fast Jund”) and I gotta say, Grim Flayer looked pretty strong. I mean, really, the whole concept of running more two-drop threats seemed strong more than Flayer himself seemed strong, though his ability was nothing to scoff at.
I’m pretty excited about this. This whole thread was pretty much already on the “Fast Jund” idea (and had been for some time) as a meta call. I think Flayer is a fine piece of fine-tuning.
I’m gonna run to my LGS tomorrow and pick up a couple of Flayers. Delver, I really like the list and I think I’m going to start with something very similar. I’ll keep my Grim Lavamancer in the MB because he’s put in so much work for me there. I don’t know how I feel about the Lili arrangement. I’ll probably keep LotV as a four-of instead of the 3/1 split since I’ll have Lavaman MB. How has Damping Sphere performed? Is it worth losing the Twilight Mire? I will say that with four basics and nine fetches your list looks much more resilient to Blood Moon.
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Hey guys! Ive updated my list and was looking for some feedback. Ive been loving 25 lands the whole time. I know a lot here are saying 25 lands are "clunky". Hasn't been the case in my experience. Are we talking about the spells in those builds? I do realize the lands coming in tapped is an issue but seems prevalent in the 24 land builds as well. Ive decided to update my sideboard to hedge more against the humans deck. As I feel this can be a great matchup for us. Also while keeping Hollow one, Tron, and Bogles as the decks I'm looking for the most help after sideboarding. So far, especially against Humans online has been working out well. I'm going to be substituting fulminator for damping sphere. I was also considering cage instead of spellbomb. Otherwise, I'm feeling good about it for these matchups plus having game against other decks. Let me know what you guys think. Kept mainboard the same as more of my issues stemmed from not having enough answers post sideboard. Thanks!
I've been happy with my results with this list but I'm looking to fit Kalitas somewhere in the 75. What do you guys think? I was considering cutting down to 3 BBE and putting 1 Kalitas mainboard...
Have you guys had any good results with Reids new Jund list?
It certainly feels way better than the most lists you see online. For me, Jund's biggest issues are the following right now:
Our answers aren't interchangable anymore. In the past, it often didn't matter if you had Terminate or Bolt in hand. Now its devastating to have the wrong kind of removal in our hand (like for example Push against Mantis Rider). Decks force us to have the right kind of answer right now.
We cannot control our drawsteps. The only way for us to dig deeper into our deck is through Bob. But Bob is inconsistant and doesn't choose what we draw either.
In the past we were considered being the topdeck king. Nowadays, I often feel against the aggressive decks we are the topdeck looser. We are put on the backfoot so quickly and hard, that topdecking 1 or 2 lands in a row is lights out.
So the consequences are to first of all lower the curve (which is something we all realised long time ago already) and after that I think we have to adjust our playstyles a bit. In the past you would likely keep a hand with 4 lands, 1 KCommand, 1 LoTV, and one Goyf. It seems like a reasonable hand. But this kind of hand is one I would now mulligan. Its just the type of hand that will most likely result in a clunky game. We want max chance for having turn 1 discard/removal into turn 2 threat. Therefore adding Grim Flayer makes sense. Grim Flayer has the big upside that his trigger is exactly what we need: filtering through our deck for card quality. We aren't in need for CA, our deck can certainly do that, but we need more and better card quality to be on par with the aggressive linear strategies. Flayer could do that potentially.
Just finished the video (Reid’s “Fast Jund”) and I gotta say, Grim Flayer looked pretty strong. I mean, really, the whole concept of running more two-drop threats seemed strong more than Flayer himself seemed strong, though his ability was nothing to scoff at.
I’m pretty excited about this. This whole thread was pretty much already on the “Fast Jund” idea (and had been for some time) as a meta call. I think Flayer is a fine piece of fine-tuning.
I’m gonna run to my LGS tomorrow and pick up a couple of Flayers. Delver, I really like the list and I think I’m going to start with something very similar. I’ll keep my Grim Lavamancer in the MB because he’s put in so much work for me there. I don’t know how I feel about the Lili arrangement. I’ll probably keep LotV as a four-of instead of the 3/1 split since I’ll have Lavaman MB. How has Damping Sphere performed? Is it worth losing the Twilight Mire? I will say that with four basics and nine fetches your list looks much more resilient to Blood Moon.
Twilight Mire certainly needs to get cut when you run Sphere. I am just trying it out right now. But I think its better than Fulminator against Tron for sure. Maybe, if Fulminator doesn't pull its weight, I would want to cut him completely and run 3 Spheres, leaving me with an extra SB slot for somethin different.
I am also not sure about the Lili arrangement, but LoTV hasnt pulled her weight that much for me lately, at least not as much to run here as a 4 of.
Got my cards today for the new list. I’ve been thinking, is Damping Sphere worth it? What’s it good against? Tron and Storm, sure, but what else? We already have a good Storm MU. It seems kind of narrow. I can see it as a one-of, but I need convincing that it’s worth two slots.
Also, I can’t decide between the second K-Command or the second Maelstrom Pulse in the MB.
There’s a bunch of other considerations I’ve been struggling with as well. Just when I think I have my deck tuned...
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Got my cards today for the new list. I’ve been thinking, is Damping Sphere worth it? What’s it good against? Tron and Storm, sure, but what else? We already have a good Storm MU. It seems kind of narrow. I can see it as a one-of, but I need convincing that it’s worth two slots.
Also, I can’t decide between the second K-Command or the second Maelstrom Pulse in the MB.
There’s a bunch of other considerations I’ve been struggling with as well. Just when I think I have my deck tuned...
It is indeed only for Storm and Tron really. Having Sphere as a 1 of is fine, maybe you can try a 2/1 split in favor of Fulminator. From the current results of the MOCS and Modern Challange, a lot of Jund lists got good finishes, and most of them play 3 Fulminators again. This is mostly due to a resurgance of UW Control decks since Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is really good as it turns out, and I think better than Jace for the Control decks. Subsequently, Jund gets better due to this.
Delver, dude, I’ve been running your exact MB with the one exception of having replaced the fourth Lightning Bolt with my MB Grim Lavamancer. I’m in love with this list right now. Forget what I said earlier about stressing about a tuned deck. Sure, I still have some minor considerations to, well, consider, but the bulk of it just seems so good. I have a lot more testing to do, but so far this thing is the tits.
Grim Flayer’s ability is waaay better than I realized, even after watching Duke use it with really promising results. It’s ridiculously good if you can get it online alongside a Bob or right before slamming down a BBE. Every time I used it it was fueling something, setting up something, finding me that perfect card, etc. What a great new addition to the deck. I’m sold already.
Also, I actually like the land setup a lot. It can be a little painful at times, but it’s extremely reliable, which is what we’re going for. Also, as I stated before, it definitely hedges against Blood Moon more than some other land bases.
Got my cards today for the new list. I’ve been thinking, is Damping Sphere worth it? What’s it good against? Tron and Storm, sure, but what else? We already have a good Storm MU. It seems kind of narrow. I can see it as a one-of, but I need convincing that it’s worth two slots.
Also, I can’t decide between the second K-Command or the second Maelstrom Pulse in the MB.
There’s a bunch of other considerations I’ve been struggling with as well. Just when I think I have my deck tuned...
Well considering that tron is our worst possible matchup I’d say it’s very useful to have. Sphere makes the matchup winnable for sure.
But sphere is also useful against basically every combo deck in modern. It’s another piece of incidental hate against both storm and KCI. Storm is not as good a matchup as it used to be, and KCI seems pretty even. Having another piece of hate to swing it is pretty good imo.
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Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
I always find Valakut to be our worst possible matchup, with Tron being second worst. Living End is also very high on the list, but in theory we can hate the deck out if we want.
It is probably only true for Reid Duke, but he said that if you pilot the deck well enough, you can nearly win half of your matches against Tron. I think this is not true in general, but I think there is some truth in it compared to Valakut. I just feel Valakut has much more redundancy that our discard spells won't do much. Their Sakura Tribe Elders are basically Time Walks for them, and they don't have bad topdecks after Valakut gets active. We just cant do much about simple landdrops. Liliana is great against them, as Valakut is a critical mass deck, and discarding cards is the way to slow them down, but I always get punished trough a Baloth I have to say.
40/60 seems reasonable. I think that is more in line with reality.
Its interesting how different our experiences are for those matchups. If I would order the 3 decks from worst to best, it would be: Valakut --> Tron --> RG Eldrazi for me.
I think you guys are stressing about Tron too much, big mana is general is in a very bad spot right now with how linear the meta is with combo and aggro.
Man, I didn't even think about KCI or Amulet Bloom. Ad Naueseam is good to consider as well, though I haven't seen it at my LGS in over a year.
Fortunately I haven't had to play against Tron much at all since I've picked Jund back up. I've always despised that MU. That was before we got BBE and Damping Sphere though, so maybe it's not as bad as I remember. Are people actually thinking that Ancient Stirrings might end up getting banned? I had heard it mentioned, but it just doesn't seem like it's necessary. Even collectively, Tron, KCI, and Lantern Control just don't seem like any sort of problem. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
There's enough UW Control around in my meta that I don't feel comfortable going below 2x Fulminator Mage, and in fact I'm a little worried about going down to 3x BBE. Honestly, I'd probably run 2x Maelstrom Pulse instead of the 2x K-Command I'm running now if not for that fact. Still, I believe it's totally worth making a little bit of a concession to UWx decks for the sake of staying relevant to the rest of the meta.
And as regards Living End, hopefully our MU will improve with the MB Nihil Spellbomb and back running 3x Scooze MB.
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Do you think we can get by without having a Spellbomb in the main? My meta has a lot of Lantern / Bogles, so I was considering running 2 Pulses in the main, and that seems to be the most obvious cut for me, but I don't know if that weakens the consistency of Grim Flayer to be worth it. Any ideas?
You don’t need it for Flayer. If there’s not a lot of GY decks in your meta then there’s no reason to MB it. Flayer is there for his ability and the fact that he’s a 2-cmc warm body. If you can get him to 4/4, cool. But that’s not the focus. Spellbomb is a good topdeck, as others have stated. And personally, while there’s only one Hollow One deck there, there’s enough other grave-based strategies at my LGS that I’m perfectly happy to run it MB.
If I was specifically trying to take down Lantern and Bogles I’d rather have an Abrupt Decay than the second Pulse. But maybe that’s just me.
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So I just saw this list. Do my eyes deceive? Are there really 5 creature lands in a 24-land mana base?
Is there a point to cutting fetch lands for more creature lands? I'm really confused by the angle this deck takes.
I think thats way too greedy and hurts the consistancy of the manabase too much. I am not a fan. I can see why some people play 4 manlands in 24 land builds but even that is a bit too greedy for me personally.
I recently bough the core of the jund deck,
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 liliana of the Veil
4 Blood Braided Elf(To be Bought).
I would like to know what`s considered the jund stock list?, just so that i can start?
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
Start with the list stated in the primer, its quite standard and covers all your bases. Thats the reason why it is in the primer, it should give people a starting point from where to begin
But don't hesitate to adjust things on the fly. Jund is a customizable deck that needs to be adjusted to your meta and playstyle. If you have any specific questions please ask!
I’m pretty excited about this. This whole thread was pretty much already on the “Fast Jund” idea (and had been for some time) as a meta call. I think Flayer is a fine piece of fine-tuning.
I’m gonna run to my LGS tomorrow and pick up a couple of Flayers. Delver, I really like the list and I think I’m going to start with something very similar. I’ll keep my Grim Lavamancer in the MB because he’s put in so much work for me there. I don’t know how I feel about the Lili arrangement. I’ll probably keep LotV as a four-of instead of the 3/1 split since I’ll have Lavaman MB. How has Damping Sphere performed? Is it worth losing the Twilight Mire? I will say that with four basics and nine fetches your list looks much more resilient to Blood Moon.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
I've been happy with my results with this list but I'm looking to fit Kalitas somewhere in the 75. What do you guys think? I was considering cutting down to 3 BBE and putting 1 Kalitas mainboard...
It certainly feels way better than the most lists you see online. For me, Jund's biggest issues are the following right now:
So the consequences are to first of all lower the curve (which is something we all realised long time ago already) and after that I think we have to adjust our playstyles a bit. In the past you would likely keep a hand with 4 lands, 1 KCommand, 1 LoTV, and one Goyf. It seems like a reasonable hand. But this kind of hand is one I would now mulligan. Its just the type of hand that will most likely result in a clunky game. We want max chance for having turn 1 discard/removal into turn 2 threat. Therefore adding Grim Flayer makes sense. Grim Flayer has the big upside that his trigger is exactly what we need: filtering through our deck for card quality. We aren't in need for CA, our deck can certainly do that, but we need more and better card quality to be on par with the aggressive linear strategies. Flayer could do that potentially.
Twilight Mire certainly needs to get cut when you run Sphere. I am just trying it out right now. But I think its better than Fulminator against Tron for sure. Maybe, if Fulminator doesn't pull its weight, I would want to cut him completely and run 3 Spheres, leaving me with an extra SB slot for somethin different.
I am also not sure about the Lili arrangement, but LoTV hasnt pulled her weight that much for me lately, at least not as much to run here as a 4 of.
Also, I can’t decide between the second K-Command or the second Maelstrom Pulse in the MB.
There’s a bunch of other considerations I’ve been struggling with as well. Just when I think I have my deck tuned...
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
It is indeed only for Storm and Tron really. Having Sphere as a 1 of is fine, maybe you can try a 2/1 split in favor of Fulminator. From the current results of the MOCS and Modern Challange, a lot of Jund lists got good finishes, and most of them play 3 Fulminators again. This is mostly due to a resurgance of UW Control decks since Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is really good as it turns out, and I think better than Jace for the Control decks. Subsequently, Jund gets better due to this.
Grim Flayer’s ability is waaay better than I realized, even after watching Duke use it with really promising results. It’s ridiculously good if you can get it online alongside a Bob or right before slamming down a BBE. Every time I used it it was fueling something, setting up something, finding me that perfect card, etc. What a great new addition to the deck. I’m sold already.
Also, I actually like the land setup a lot. It can be a little painful at times, but it’s extremely reliable, which is what we’re going for. Also, as I stated before, it definitely hedges against Blood Moon more than some other land bases.
My first crack at the SB:
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2x Fulminator Mage
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Duress
1x Fatal Push
1x Damping Sphere
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
Can’t wait to take it to the next FNM
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Well considering that tron is our worst possible matchup I’d say it’s very useful to have. Sphere makes the matchup winnable for sure.
But sphere is also useful against basically every combo deck in modern. It’s another piece of incidental hate against both storm and KCI. Storm is not as good a matchup as it used to be, and KCI seems pretty even. Having another piece of hate to swing it is pretty good imo.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
Its interesting how different our experiences are for those matchups. If I would order the 3 decks from worst to best, it would be: Valakut --> Tron --> RG Eldrazi for me.
Fortunately I haven't had to play against Tron much at all since I've picked Jund back up. I've always despised that MU. That was before we got BBE and Damping Sphere though, so maybe it's not as bad as I remember. Are people actually thinking that Ancient Stirrings might end up getting banned? I had heard it mentioned, but it just doesn't seem like it's necessary. Even collectively, Tron, KCI, and Lantern Control just don't seem like any sort of problem. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
There's enough UW Control around in my meta that I don't feel comfortable going below 2x Fulminator Mage, and in fact I'm a little worried about going down to 3x BBE. Honestly, I'd probably run 2x Maelstrom Pulse instead of the 2x K-Command I'm running now if not for that fact. Still, I believe it's totally worth making a little bit of a concession to UWx decks for the sake of staying relevant to the rest of the meta.
And as regards Living End, hopefully our MU will improve with the MB Nihil Spellbomb and back running 3x Scooze MB.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
If I was specifically trying to take down Lantern and Bogles I’d rather have an Abrupt Decay than the second Pulse. But maybe that’s just me.
BRGJUNDGRB---BRHOLLOW ONERB---BGELVESGB---BRGLIVING ENDGRB---GWBOGLESWG
EDH:
BRGKARRTHUS, TYRANT OF JUNDGRB
Is there a point to cutting fetch lands for more creature lands? I'm really confused by the angle this deck takes.
I think thats way too greedy and hurts the consistancy of the manabase too much. I am not a fan. I can see why some people play 4 manlands in 24 land builds but even that is a bit too greedy for me personally.