Got absolutely wrecked today:
1-2 vs Ponza
0-2 vs UW Control
0-2 vs Bogles
I won the first game versus Ponza thanks to a 9/9 Ooze which he had to block every turn before I was able to assign lethal damage. Game 2 and 3 he had Blood Moon on turn 2 and I got destroyed. I can't see how people used this card in Jund's sideboard, Blood Moon is an incredibly efficient card against the deck. Didn't help that I only drew Mires and lost with 2 BBE's in hand. Again, I stay with my opinion (even If i am alone), but this matchup is bad for Jund.
First game against UW control was a pure grind fest: He eventually finished me with a Collonade. Game two my hand was Cliffs, Ravine, Liliana of the Veil, Dark Confidant (2), IOK and Abrupt Decay. I dind't draw my third land until turn 5 and loose again.
In round 3 Bogles did the Bogles things and finished the game t4 without me having any chance of interacting. Game 2 I keep a hand full of IOK and Bobs and got blown away by a turn 0 Leyline (his only apparently, after a mull to 6). He then played a Bogle into double Ethereal Armor into Rancor and it was over from there.
0-3, won a single game out of 7. Feels pretty bad.
5 discards weren't enough against the Ponza player as I saw too few in my early turns to prevent a t2 Blood Moon. Can't blame myself for the loss vs UW because I play 25 lands in order to not get screwed. I don't care about that Bogles game too much tbh because at 0-2 I just wanted to stop playing for today.
So I will be heading to the SCG Open this weekend and might run the list you both are testing. I need some help with the sideboard guide though. There's a lot of matches I've never played against, but still want to have a general idea what to do vs them.
Here is the 75 for anyone else that wants to chime in as well..
I would cut 1 Pulse but would not bring in Finks here. So -2 Push, -2 KCommand, -1 Pulse, +3 Fulm, +2 CB
Storm
-2 Kolaghan's Command
-2 Terminate
-2 ???
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
+1 Anger of the Gods
+2 Collective Brutality
Here you dont need Anger necessarily since we got double Pulse. I would leave out Anger and cut 1 BBE. If you run EE, then cut 1 Pulse and bring in EE.
UW Control
-2 Fatal Push
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Terminate (Keep 1 vs Gideon)
+3 Fulminator Mage
+2 Kitchen Finks (Cut 1 vs Gideon)
+1 Liliana, the Last Hope
+2 Collective Brutality
Decided to play Ecto's list at my LGS tonight. Ended up 0-2 tonight, my local meta is so inbred against Jund it's insane.
Glad I have MTGO to grind on. 24 land seemed fine with the extra one drops.
Do y'all fellow jund brethren think there is any efficacy in playing surgical extraction over spellbombs? Can be used against scapeshift and tron effectively.
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Went 4-1 in a local fnm in fort worth. Played against Valakut(2-0), Jund(2-1), Humans(2-1), Affinity(0-2), and Jeskai Control(2-1). Felt pretty good. The 2nd game against affinity he had darksteel into 2 etched and another darksteel, so felt bad.
Went 4-1 in a local fnm in fort worth. Played against Valakut(2-0), Jund(2-1), Humans(2-1), Affinity(0-2), and Jeskai Control(2-1). Felt pretty good. The 2nd game against affinity he had darksteel into 2 etched and another darksteel, so felt bad.
FlyingDelver, thank you for all the time and effort you put into your response to Perplex11. You have a lot of patience to go through the list as thoroughly as you did! There are little things that I have been trying lately, like siding out the 2x Pulse for 2x Fulminator against Burn, but a lot of it comes down to preference and play/draw. Something I do feel very strongly about is leaving in Kolaghan's Command vs Valakut; they are a critical mass deck, and as such, simply reducing the number of cards in their hand has been the easiest path to victory for me in games. Recurring Fulminator Mage is a nice synergy as well, but taking cards out of their hand is my #1 priority.
I continue to be very happy with the deck. Here are some bullet points on more niche items:
-I am loving the old-school 1x Duress in the sideboard. It comes in for so many matchups and makes boarding plans smoother. Here is an incomplete list of decks I board it in against: Tron, Burn, Storm, Valakut, Uxx control/midrange decks, Grixis Shadow, Ponza, Grishoalbrand, Ad Nauseum, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles. I love being able to board into 9 discard spells when necessary (6 main +1 Duress +2 Brutality), not to mention how powerful information is.
-2x Maelstrom Pulse continues to impress. To further illustrate why I think it's so great, I played against RG Valakut today. During our match, I Pulsed a Prismatic Omen that was lethal the next turn, and a Titan the next game. Having to keep in Terminate or Abrupt Decay postboard is awkward, and this example is only one of many where the utility of the card can't be overstated.
-The Burn matchup has felt as good as I could hope for, which is to say fairly close to 50%. Sure, they can nut draw (only draw 2 lands, multiple 1-mana burn spells and Boros Charms when removal is rotting in my hand, etc.) but their average draws are very beatable. 2 Finks/2 Brutality split has been working well for me. I understand that Collective Brutality is the better hate card against Burn, but the 2nd Finks has so much utility in other matchups, and the 3rd Brutality only really comes in against Burn (especially since I already have 1x Duress in the board).
-Fulminator Mage is an all-star. I have never been as impressed with the card as I am now. With all the utility lands, control decks, and big mana decks, the card has overperformed for me. I even bring in all 3 against Affinity with my list to clean up manlands, and it has overperformed there. Not to mention it's a safe filler card for the mirror/Burn/Bogles/whenever you have a lot of cards to side out. I believe it was Spsiegel who suggested running 4 in this meta, and I am seriously considering cutting the Thrun from my board for the 4th copy, especially since I bring it in for all the same matchups.
-2x Grafdigger's Cage continues to be my graveyard hate of choice. While it has some weaknesses compared to Nihil Spellbomb, it is the more powerful hate card overall, and has some very nice applications where Spellbomb doesn't (like against CoCo decks). The main reason I'm not a fan of Spellbomb is that it looks like you want it in a bunch of matchups in theory, but it tends to be too medium in my experience to be worth the slot when it actually comes to boarding. Having to spend 2 mana to cantrip with it is just not that exciting when I want to play on curve turns 1-4, and there's also the issue of when to crack it-- more often than not, I find myself using it just to cycle because I really need to draw something else. I totally understand most of you have have better experiences with the card, but that is just where I'm at with it. Other than that, I'm not too interested in beating stuff like Living End, or just dedicating too many sideboard slots to graveyard hate in general. I'm fine with having a poor Dredge matchup if it means having more game vs the rest of the field right now.
As many of you are unfortunately experiencing, Jund is starting to have a target painted on its back. Leyline of Sanctity is a very problematic card for us, and it's starting to see more play. Mirran Crusader, Chameleon Colossus, Obstinate Baloth-- players are becoming very creative with ways to screw us over. And honestly, it doesn't bother me much. Sure, it makes life harder for us Jund players, but don't think it will stay like this for long; Modern is a very wide format, and there are always decks waiting to exploit the meta when people are sacrificing sideboard slots to "beat" Jund. And that's just the thing: while Jund may lose games to these cards, the deck is so powerful that it will win many games regardless! And even then, they have to draw said cards in the first place.
It's exactly as advertised, so pretty much only worth bringing in against blue decks. It was a response to the Jace unban, but seeing as that hype is beginning to die down, I'm more inclined to swap it to the 4th Fulminator. All that being said, it is nice to have another resilient wincon vs Uxx, and is a worthwhile inclusion if you expect a lot of Cryptic Commands.
Hello fellow jund mages. Been a loyal GBx player in modern for about a year and a half now and have mostly been lurking on this site. But since you all have helped me immensely with forming a 75 after the BBE unbanning, I probably owe you guys some additional data.
Went 3-0-1 tonight at FNM with the following list:
25 lands feels right to me in my meta as there are a lot of ghost quarters/fields of ruin running around. My meta consists mostly of mid range, UWx, tron and burn. Don't have a Twilight Mire at the moment but will eventually get one — probably will replace the 4th Bloodstained Mire with it.
Match 1: Affinity (2-0) Win
Game 1
Affinity is on the play, mulls to 6 with a slow opener. Turn 1 darksteel citadel / mox opal pass. I open with inquisition and strip his etched champion. The rest of his hand is a cranial plating, a glimmervoid and a steel overseer. I drop a goyf then -2 LotV his steel overseer and proceed to beat him down while answering his scarce threats.
Game 2
IN: 1x Kcommand, 1x Ancient Grudge, 2x Fatal Push, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Grim Lavamancer, 1x Collective Brutality, 1x Maelstrom Pulse.
OUT: 4x LotV, 2x Thoughtseize, 1x Bloodbraid Elf, 1x Bloodstained Mire
Opponent mulls to 6 again. I mull a 5 land, BBE, LtLH hand into a very keepable 6 card hand consisting of my single ancient grudge, a push, a Bob and a K-command.
Opponent doesn't exactly have an explosive t1, but belches out 2 ornithopters, a steel overseer and a vault skirge. I push the steel overseer, and then dismantle his other payoff cards with ancient grudge. I stick a Bob afterwards and he shortly concedes.
Match 2: GW Goodstuff? (1-1-1) Tie
Game 1
On the play, I inquisition and find a hand of 2 CoCos, a hierarch and a Knight of the Reliquary. I take the hierarch and drop a Bob turn 2. I remove the KotR turn 3 with a LotV -2. I then develop a LtlH and the board stalls immensely. Eventually I'm able to -7 the LtlH and eventually swing in for lethal with zombies.
Seeing a Ramunap excavator from one of his CoCos, I assume he has either GQ or Field of Ruin and decide to not cut a land. At this point, I regret not having some kind of sweeper in my SB.
Game 2
IN: 1x Grafdigger's Cage, 2x Fatal Push, 2x Collective Brutality, 1x Maelstrom Pulse, 1x Grim Lavamancer, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x K-command.
OUT: 4x Inquisition, 4x LotV.
I felt iffy about taking inquisition out against this deck, but I figured this match up would be grindy and be top deck reliant. I didn't see any go-infinite combos, so disruption didn't seem as important. Kept TS just for CoCos. LotV didn't appeal to me since OP's deck went wide.
This game ended up being a complete slog. My opponent eventually locks the board into a stall with my scoozes fighting against his Ramunap Excavator/Azusa/Ghost Quarter combo. He's able to shut me off red for a portion of the game but cannot attack properly into my goyfs. I also have trouble attacking into his Voice of Resurgences/Voice tokens. I decide to concede (and not paying attention to the time) figure to try and close game 3 out.
We do not have enough time to finish a game 3, and tie 1-1.
Match 3: GB Devotion (2-0) Win
Game 1
On the play. Opponent mulls to 6, I keep an OK hand of 4 lands, Inquisition, Goyf and a K Command.
Open with TS, taking his Llanowar Elf and seeing an unusual single-land hand consisting of an overgrown tomb, a Torment of Hailfire, and some ramp minions that are all 2 mana+. He is unable to find a land for t2, and my goyf gets a few hits in. T3 I drop a Scooze and my opponent yet again misses a land drop. He finally hits a second land for t4 and plays a Sylvan Caryatid. I draw LotV and sacrifice to swing in for lethal.
Game 2,
IN: 2x,Fatal Push, 1x Abrupt Decay
OUT: 1x Bloodstained Mire, 1x K-Command, 1x Maelstrom Pulse.
Don't really know exactly what I'm playing against, so I just focus on removal for his creatures.
Opponent and I keep 7. I get a snap keep of Bolt, Goyf, LotV, BBE and 3 lands.
The goal of my opponent's deck becomes more apparent with a T1 with an Elves of Deep Shadow. I bolt it. He develops a caryatid. I play a goyf. He follows up with a Geralf's Messenger. I play LotV and eat his caryatid. He chumps my goyf with a messenger and gets it res'd with undying. He then plays a Karametra's Acolyte. My T4, I play a fetch, crack, and then play BBE that cascades into a fatal push with revolt. I kill the Geralf's Messenger and swing in. Next turn he plays a Grey Merchant of Asphodel (devotion only at 2 black). I sac the LotV and he chooses to bin the Karametra's Acolyte. Goyf smashes in the next two turns for the win.
Match 4: GB Tron (2-1) Win
Uh oh. One of the big counters to midrange. Fortunately, BBE has helped the matchup immensely. Not only by adding pressure with haste, but also digging further into our deck for Fulminator mages.
Game 1
Opponent is able to assemble T3 Tron and drops a Karn to deal with my goyf. He then follows the Karn up with a Ugin, sacs the Sanctum of Ugin he used to play it, to find a Wurmcoil Engine. Having seen enough, I concede and go to game 2.
Game 2, IN: 3x Fulminator Mage, 1x Ancient Grudge, 1x K-command, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Maelstrom Pulse. OUT: 2x Terminate, 1x Lightning Bolt, 1x LtlH, 3x Scavenging Ooze.
Game 2 and Game 3 play out very similarly, so I'll just combine the reports (Also Tron is not particularly the most interesting of decks to play against.) Early disruption helps keep my opponent from finding key pieces. Fulminator + Kcommand in both games keeps my opponent from assembling Tron, while laying beats with Goyf/BBE to close out the game. Seriously, I feel this matchup is more along the lines of 40-60 (in favor of Tron) than the previous 35-65/30-70 all thanks to BBE.
Final thoughts:
It's probably already apparent and I'm wasting words here, but the reason BBE is so good for GBx is not just the tempo it creates, but the fact it helps us find our sideboard cards and has so many live hits in game 2 and 3. GBx, as an archetype, really shines on Games 2 and 3 and BBE compounds on this immensely.
While we might have less flex slots from adding BBE, our MB is still very flexible in how we approach specific metas.
Changes I will most likely make to my list:
-1x Nihil Spellbomb, +1 Grafdigger's cage. As mentioned by EctoMark, Cage feels more powerful and has utility against CoCo decks, Snapcaster, Lingering Souls & more.
-Finding room for at least 1x Anger of the Gods or Damnation, while I'm generally against sweepers, preferring 1 for 1 removal, I think having 1 in the 75 would be nice for my meta. Would consider removing Kitchen Finks or Abrupt Decay as those two SB cards have felt the weakest to me.
-Possibly removing 1x K-Command in side for a second Ancient Grudge. I've been back and forth on this, but having Ancient Grudge for Tron, Affinity & Lantern is huge. The card is really efficient.
-Adding a Twilight Mire after A25 drops the price a bit.
Once again, big thanks to all you guys for the diligent and deep conversation on how to stack our 75 and to FlyingDelver for writing this wonderful primer.
FlyingDelver, thank you for all the time and effort you put into your response to Perplex11. You have a lot of patience to go through the list as thoroughly as you did! There are little things that I have been trying lately, like siding out the 2x Pulse for 2x Fulminator against Burn, but a lot of it comes down to preference and play/draw. Something I do feel very strongly about is leaving in Kolaghan's Command vs Valakut; they are a critical mass deck, and as such, simply reducing the number of cards in their hand has been the easiest path to victory for me in games. Recurring Fulminator Mage is a nice synergy as well, but taking cards out of their hand is my #1 priority.
Sure, I'll try to answer all questions asked if possible.
While it is true that Valakut is a critical mass deck and KCommand can get rid of one of their cards for sure, I am not sure we want to spent 3 mana on it. Doesnt seem that effective to me, and seems pretty expensive for just 1 card. I just think I would rather play any threat over KCommand most of the time. I generally had more succes with Turn 1 Discard into Turn 2 Goyf into Turn 3 Fulminatro/Liliana, and trying to beat them down fast.
-I am loving the old-school 1x Duress in the sideboard. It comes in for so many matchups and makes boarding plans smoother. Here is an incomplete list of decks I board it in against: Tron, Burn, Storm, Valakut, Uxx control/midrange decks, Grixis Shadow, Ponza, Grishoalbrand, Ad Nauseum, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles. I love being able to board into 9 discard spells when necessary (6 main +1 Duress +2 Brutality), not to mention how powerful information is.
I like Duress as an option as well, however, I am not a fan of boarding it against Grixis Shadow. I dont like the drawback of not being able to take any threats here (including Snapcaster!), which is almost always more important than discarding answers.
-2x Grafdigger's Cage continues to be my graveyard hate of choice. While it has some weaknesses compared to Nihil Spellbomb, it is the more powerful hate card overall, and has some very nice applications where Spellbomb doesn't (like against CoCo decks). The main reason I'm not a fan of Spellbomb is that it looks like you want it in a bunch of matchups in theory, but it tends to be too medium in my experience to be worth the slot when it actually comes to boarding. Having to spend 2 mana to cantrip with it is just not that exciting when I want to play on curve turns 1-4, and there's also the issue of when to crack it-- more often than not, I find myself using it just to cycle because I really need to draw something else. I totally understand most of you have have better experiences with the card, but that is just where I'm at with it. Other than that, I'm not too interested in beating stuff like Living End, or just dedicating too many sideboard slots to graveyard hate in general. I'm fine with having a poor Dredge matchup if it means having more game vs the rest of the field right now.
I personally disagree here, Spellbomb is incredibly versatile because it cantrips. Cage is more impactful in certain matchups, but is sometimes useless in other matchups. I don't think it is a good idea to skimp on a good versatile GY hate card when the modern format is that open. Living End is a good example. It is obviously a bad matchup, but I don't want to 100 % loose to it because I dont have any Spellbombs. And Spellbombs can do a ton of work there.
In matchups where its relevant, you can still curve out with Spellbomb, since you can crack it always without having to spend mana. Its not like Relic which costs always 1 mana on each turn it just sits on the battlefield. Spellbomb can cantrip if you want to or need to, but it can also be a simple GY wipe with only needing to spend 1 mana entirely.
Spellbomb is also a very nice card that can replace any worse card in our deck when it comes to sideboarding. I always bring them in if I dont have anymore cards to bring in otherwise and still have dead card in my deck left. Spellbomb is never a bad topdeck. I also do not like Cage in control matchups, which is about attrition. Spellbomb can deal with Snapcaster AND draw a card. Cage is a devastating topdeck on an empty board.
Match 2: GW Goodstuff? (1-1-1) Tie
Game 1
On the play, I inquisition and find a hand of 2 CoCos, a hierarch and a Knight of the Reliquary. I take the hierarch and drop a Bob turn 2. I remove the KotR turn 3 with a LotV -2. I then develop a LtlH and the board stalls immensely. Eventually I'm able to -7 the LtlH and eventually swing in for lethal with zombies.
Seeing a Ramunap excavator from one of his CoCos, I assume he has either GQ or Field of Ruin and decide to not cut a land. At this point, I regret not having some kind of sweeper in my SB.
First of all welcome to our Jund forum, always great to see new active players!
This deck is called GW Company. It is a pretty tough matchup for us, as they have lots of hard to deal with threats. I think KCommand is not really that great here, I would leave in some Lilianas instead.
Game 2, IN: 3x Fulminator Mage, 1x Ancient Grudge, 1x K-command, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Maelstrom Pulse. OUT: 2x Terminate, 1x Lightning Bolt, 1x LtlH, 3x Scavenging Ooze.
Game 2 and Game 3 play out very similarly, so I'll just combine the reports (Also Tron is not particularly the most interesting of decks to play against.) Early disruption helps keep my opponent from finding key pieces. Fulminator + Kcommand in both games keeps my opponent from assembling Tron, while laying beats with Goyf/BBE to close out the game. Seriously, I feel this matchup is more along the lines of 40-60 (in favor of Tron) than the previous 35-65/30-70 all thanks to BBE.
Dont bring in Decay, its a card we cut. It is too narrow and O-Stone is often not the problem we have in this matchup. And snapping of Maps is also very unlikely. Leave in Bolts for extra reach.
Changes I will most likely make to my list:
-1x Nihil Spellbomb, +1 Grafdigger's cage. As mentioned by EctoMark, Cage feels more powerful and has utility against CoCo decks, Snapcaster, Lingering Souls & more.
Once again, big thanks to all you guys for the diligent and deep conversation on how to stack our 75 and to FlyingDelver for writing this wonderful primer.
I do not recommend Cage against Snapcaster decks and Lingering Souls decks. Those matchups are about attrition. Cage is a dead draw later in the game. Its basically the same with Surgical against those decks. I dont think Cage is good here and I really would not bring it in here. Spellbomb on the other hand, yes please! The only big things Cage is great against now is BR Hollow One (the biggest reason) and CoCo decks as well as Storm potentially (but not my primary reason to run Cage). For pretty much all other matchups I want Spellbomb more personally.
I had a feeling 4x fulminators would be right with bbe. 4x actually makes big tron not feel so bad anymore. It's great against so much.
We also forget that bbe does an invisible thing we don't think about, she filters out the bad topdecks and lands. Instead of drawing three lands she reveals a discard. That's 4 bad topdecks out of the way.
That new sphere card leaked may replace the 4th fulminator.
I've been with you on 2x cages instead of spellbomb. Hollow one made me think how much I want to just stop their graveyard, they can rebuild it insanely fast with 4x loots, 4x inquiries, 4x goblin lores. I have no interest fighting something like living end.
I've been on the 2/2 collective finks plan, too. Finks has utility against mirrors, control and aggro, so it justifies the slots.
Jund is feeling very targeted, more than I'm used to. It's good but it doesn't have blowout matchups. It's an overreaction. My meta feels pretty hard for jund currently. To the point I may play hollow one on Monday.
With the way new jund is, how are you guys beating grixis death shadow? Obviously lotv is the oath to victory, but when that doesn't happen are you guys just going wide? If I don't have removal for their shadows and can't attack them down it feels rough.
Felt easier when we played 3x pushes and 2x decays.
Grixis Shadow should be favoured according to Reid Duke. Before it was unfavoured. I am not sure though since with the inclusion of BBE, good removal has been cut. I think, if you include 2 Pushes we are still in a decent spot. Janking the board seems good, since 2 Goyfs can also hold off Gurmag for example.
I would attack their hand more, siding out Bolts instead of discard. That way you can snag their threats before they can hit the BF.
About to head to the event now with my full sideboard guide thanks to Delver. I feel pretty good about it since I did pretty well last night - but my deck drew straight gas last night multiple times. I was getting pretty lucky. I'm going to TRY and take some notes and do a write up, but I'm horrible at remembering things so we will see how that goes...
About to head to the event now with my full sideboard guide thanks to Delver. I feel pretty good about it since I did pretty well last night - but my deck drew straight gas last night multiple times. I was getting pretty lucky. I'm going to TRY and take some notes and do a write up, but I'm horrible at remembering things so we will see how that goes...
All the best for the event, crush them! No worries, don't distract yourself from playing tight at the event, if its too stressful.
Played a 5 round FNM last night, went 5-0 for first place. Played against Hollow One (2-1), Scapeshift (2-1), Affinity (2-1), Taking Turns (2-1), and Storm (2-0).
So, aside from it being 61 which I played just because I couldn't decide on a cut, a few things I noticed:
Kessig in the manabase was pretty terrible.
I'm rethinking 25 lands, 24+ Nissa might be ok, or alternatively just 25 without Nissa. Either way, I should take out the Kessig. If I leave Nissa in, 2 Forests is a must but if I play 25 without I'm starting to think that a 3 Swamp/1 Forest configuration with all black fetches might be best.
Twilight Mire was fantastic, it really helped with having some pain free openings.
On the spell front, Duress overperformed all night long and I was happy with it MB. I could see going up to a 5th discard spell but I'm not sure what I would add in that case. Duress saved a lot of life and had relevant targets against everything I played, and most stuff in the room. I also noticed the versatility and life savings. Being able to grab Gifts Ungiven from Storm, Time Warps, Scapeshifts, and so on was very helpful and more IoK's wouldn't have allowed for that. In particular, against Scapeshift I was able to leverage the ping mode on Brutality plus using Duress to put together a lot of hand disruption while staying at 19+ to dodge a 6 land Scapeshift.
I'm unsure about Dreadbore, I think I might rather just have the second Terminate.
Harsh Mentor was a pretty nice surprise against Affinity G1 and the damage from the triggered ability actually won me the game. Notably, Scavenging Ooze instead of Mentor would not have won it for me. That was the only time all night where I drew it though, and it would have been pretty useless at several other points. I should probably just make it another Scavenging Ooze.
Nissa was... interesting. I ended up drawing her a lot. In 14 games I drew her 5 times and in 3 of those situations she fulfilled the intended purpose of guaranteeing me 4 mana for Bloodbraid. The other two times I didn't cast her. Where she really came in handy though, was in opening hands where I could leverage her to use more Brutality modes on turn 2 while still ensuring I had enough resources. She never flipped, but I suspect she would in midrange games. I have gotten flips against decks like GDS. I'm unsure if I'll leave her in, when she's good she's great but when she's bad she's a dead card
The Chandra+Liliana combo was very potent against Affinity. They were actually in the list as a concession to Lingering Souls but I never played against that all night. What they did do was still enough though. I think Pyromaster is better positioned than Torch of Defiance right now, they both generate CA, but the ability to eliminate blockers or ping down x/1's is pretty great.
In the SB I would like a second Glissa just because it's so hard to beat in combat and Lightning Bolt is somewhat uncommon (though it's obviously around) and I would like a Grafdigger's Cage, likely over the Lavamancer. Another nice thing about Glissa is that it's a reasonable swap for Tarmogoyf when you suspect GY hate is coming in.
Can't believe we've reached the point where people are cutting Abrupt Decay entirely from their decks. In theory it should be the perfect answer card for Modern, but because of the broken delve mechanic...
Yeah, its has become more often an awkward card now. I am not sure if its right to cut it entirely, as its a good card for an open meta in theory, just like you said.
Given that Affinity/Lantern is not really present atm, and we have a good game vs Affinity anyway, I am thinking 1 Grudge is sufficient in the SB. Could free up a precious SB slot.
Hey folks. I'm going to my first big modern event in a long, long time this coming weekend, and I put together a list based on a combination of what I've seen works. I just want to make sure it's solid, and am currently nitpicking card choices here and there. My current conundrum is the Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard. I was really hyped up about using Nihil's Spellbomb, but from what I've seen thanks to Bloodbraid Elf most matches that we'd use Spellbomb we're actually favored now. I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks
Went 4-0 last night at FNM beating Enduring Ideal (2-0), Humans (2-0), Jeskai Control (2-0) and another Jeskai Control (2-1). I played the following list:
I'm not a fan of sweepers in Jund but I opted for the Anger since it was only a 20 person event and I knew at least two players were on Dredge. I was very pleased with the deck overall.
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1-2 vs Ponza
0-2 vs UW Control
0-2 vs Bogles
I won the first game versus Ponza thanks to a 9/9 Ooze which he had to block every turn before I was able to assign lethal damage. Game 2 and 3 he had Blood Moon on turn 2 and I got destroyed. I can't see how people used this card in Jund's sideboard, Blood Moon is an incredibly efficient card against the deck. Didn't help that I only drew Mires and lost with 2 BBE's in hand. Again, I stay with my opinion (even If i am alone), but this matchup is bad for Jund.
First game against UW control was a pure grind fest: He eventually finished me with a Collonade. Game two my hand was Cliffs, Ravine, Liliana of the Veil, Dark Confidant (2), IOK and Abrupt Decay. I dind't draw my third land until turn 5 and loose again.
In round 3 Bogles did the Bogles things and finished the game t4 without me having any chance of interacting. Game 2 I keep a hand full of IOK and Bobs and got blown away by a turn 0 Leyline (his only apparently, after a mull to 6). He then played a Bogle into double Ethereal Armor into Rancor and it was over from there.
0-3, won a single game out of 7. Feels pretty bad.
5 discards weren't enough against the Ponza player as I saw too few in my early turns to prevent a t2 Blood Moon. Can't blame myself for the loss vs UW because I play 25 lands in order to not get screwed. I don't care about that Bogles game too much tbh because at 0-2 I just wanted to stop playing for today.
Glad I have MTGO to grind on. 24 land seemed fine with the extra one drops.
BG/x BG
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Was this record with the last list you posted?
I continue to be very happy with the deck. Here are some bullet points on more niche items:
-I am loving the old-school 1x Duress in the sideboard. It comes in for so many matchups and makes boarding plans smoother. Here is an incomplete list of decks I board it in against: Tron, Burn, Storm, Valakut, Uxx control/midrange decks, Grixis Shadow, Ponza, Grishoalbrand, Ad Nauseum, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles. I love being able to board into 9 discard spells when necessary (6 main +1 Duress +2 Brutality), not to mention how powerful information is.
-2x Maelstrom Pulse continues to impress. To further illustrate why I think it's so great, I played against RG Valakut today. During our match, I Pulsed a Prismatic Omen that was lethal the next turn, and a Titan the next game. Having to keep in Terminate or Abrupt Decay postboard is awkward, and this example is only one of many where the utility of the card can't be overstated.
-The Burn matchup has felt as good as I could hope for, which is to say fairly close to 50%. Sure, they can nut draw (only draw 2 lands, multiple 1-mana burn spells and Boros Charms when removal is rotting in my hand, etc.) but their average draws are very beatable. 2 Finks/2 Brutality split has been working well for me. I understand that Collective Brutality is the better hate card against Burn, but the 2nd Finks has so much utility in other matchups, and the 3rd Brutality only really comes in against Burn (especially since I already have 1x Duress in the board).
-Fulminator Mage is an all-star. I have never been as impressed with the card as I am now. With all the utility lands, control decks, and big mana decks, the card has overperformed for me. I even bring in all 3 against Affinity with my list to clean up manlands, and it has overperformed there. Not to mention it's a safe filler card for the mirror/Burn/Bogles/whenever you have a lot of cards to side out. I believe it was Spsiegel who suggested running 4 in this meta, and I am seriously considering cutting the Thrun from my board for the 4th copy, especially since I bring it in for all the same matchups.
-2x Grafdigger's Cage continues to be my graveyard hate of choice. While it has some weaknesses compared to Nihil Spellbomb, it is the more powerful hate card overall, and has some very nice applications where Spellbomb doesn't (like against CoCo decks). The main reason I'm not a fan of Spellbomb is that it looks like you want it in a bunch of matchups in theory, but it tends to be too medium in my experience to be worth the slot when it actually comes to boarding. Having to spend 2 mana to cantrip with it is just not that exciting when I want to play on curve turns 1-4, and there's also the issue of when to crack it-- more often than not, I find myself using it just to cycle because I really need to draw something else. I totally understand most of you have have better experiences with the card, but that is just where I'm at with it. Other than that, I'm not too interested in beating stuff like Living End, or just dedicating too many sideboard slots to graveyard hate in general. I'm fine with having a poor Dredge matchup if it means having more game vs the rest of the field right now.
As many of you are unfortunately experiencing, Jund is starting to have a target painted on its back. Leyline of Sanctity is a very problematic card for us, and it's starting to see more play. Mirran Crusader, Chameleon Colossus, Obstinate Baloth-- players are becoming very creative with ways to screw us over. And honestly, it doesn't bother me much. Sure, it makes life harder for us Jund players, but don't think it will stay like this for long; Modern is a very wide format, and there are always decks waiting to exploit the meta when people are sacrificing sideboard slots to "beat" Jund. And that's just the thing: while Jund may lose games to these cards, the deck is so powerful that it will win many games regardless! And even then, they have to draw said cards in the first place.
Just my 2 cents. Keep the change!
Went 3-0-1 tonight at FNM with the following list:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Raging Ravine
1 Mountain
1 Treetop Village
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants & Sorceries
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Planeswalkers
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
25 lands feels right to me in my meta as there are a lot of ghost quarters/fields of ruin running around. My meta consists mostly of mid range, UWx, tron and burn. Don't have a Twilight Mire at the moment but will eventually get one — probably will replace the 4th Bloodstained Mire with it.
Match 1: Affinity (2-0) Win
Game 1
Affinity is on the play, mulls to 6 with a slow opener. Turn 1 darksteel citadel / mox opal pass. I open with inquisition and strip his etched champion. The rest of his hand is a cranial plating, a glimmervoid and a steel overseer. I drop a goyf then -2 LotV his steel overseer and proceed to beat him down while answering his scarce threats.
Game 2
IN: 1x Kcommand, 1x Ancient Grudge, 2x Fatal Push, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Grim Lavamancer, 1x Collective Brutality, 1x Maelstrom Pulse.
OUT: 4x LotV, 2x Thoughtseize, 1x Bloodbraid Elf, 1x Bloodstained Mire
Opponent mulls to 6 again. I mull a 5 land, BBE, LtLH hand into a very keepable 6 card hand consisting of my single ancient grudge, a push, a Bob and a K-command.
Opponent doesn't exactly have an explosive t1, but belches out 2 ornithopters, a steel overseer and a vault skirge. I push the steel overseer, and then dismantle his other payoff cards with ancient grudge. I stick a Bob afterwards and he shortly concedes.
Match 2: GW Goodstuff? (1-1-1) Tie
Game 1
On the play, I inquisition and find a hand of 2 CoCos, a hierarch and a Knight of the Reliquary. I take the hierarch and drop a Bob turn 2. I remove the KotR turn 3 with a LotV -2. I then develop a LtlH and the board stalls immensely. Eventually I'm able to -7 the LtlH and eventually swing in for lethal with zombies.
Seeing a Ramunap excavator from one of his CoCos, I assume he has either GQ or Field of Ruin and decide to not cut a land. At this point, I regret not having some kind of sweeper in my SB.
Game 2
IN: 1x Grafdigger's Cage, 2x Fatal Push, 2x Collective Brutality, 1x Maelstrom Pulse, 1x Grim Lavamancer, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x K-command.
OUT: 4x Inquisition, 4x LotV.
I felt iffy about taking inquisition out against this deck, but I figured this match up would be grindy and be top deck reliant. I didn't see any go-infinite combos, so disruption didn't seem as important. Kept TS just for CoCos. LotV didn't appeal to me since OP's deck went wide.
This game ended up being a complete slog. My opponent eventually locks the board into a stall with my scoozes fighting against his Ramunap Excavator/Azusa/Ghost Quarter combo. He's able to shut me off red for a portion of the game but cannot attack properly into my goyfs. I also have trouble attacking into his Voice of Resurgences/Voice tokens. I decide to concede (and not paying attention to the time) figure to try and close game 3 out.
We do not have enough time to finish a game 3, and tie 1-1.
Match 3: GB Devotion (2-0) Win
Game 1
On the play. Opponent mulls to 6, I keep an OK hand of 4 lands, Inquisition, Goyf and a K Command.
Open with TS, taking his Llanowar Elf and seeing an unusual single-land hand consisting of an overgrown tomb, a Torment of Hailfire, and some ramp minions that are all 2 mana+. He is unable to find a land for t2, and my goyf gets a few hits in. T3 I drop a Scooze and my opponent yet again misses a land drop. He finally hits a second land for t4 and plays a Sylvan Caryatid. I draw LotV and sacrifice to swing in for lethal.
Game 2,
IN: 2x,Fatal Push, 1x Abrupt Decay
OUT: 1x Bloodstained Mire, 1x K-Command, 1x Maelstrom Pulse.
Don't really know exactly what I'm playing against, so I just focus on removal for his creatures.
Opponent and I keep 7. I get a snap keep of Bolt, Goyf, LotV, BBE and 3 lands.
The goal of my opponent's deck becomes more apparent with a T1 with an Elves of Deep Shadow. I bolt it. He develops a caryatid. I play a goyf. He follows up with a Geralf's Messenger. I play LotV and eat his caryatid. He chumps my goyf with a messenger and gets it res'd with undying. He then plays a Karametra's Acolyte. My T4, I play a fetch, crack, and then play BBE that cascades into a fatal push with revolt. I kill the Geralf's Messenger and swing in. Next turn he plays a Grey Merchant of Asphodel (devotion only at 2 black). I sac the LotV and he chooses to bin the Karametra's Acolyte. Goyf smashes in the next two turns for the win.
Match 4: GB Tron (2-1) Win
Uh oh. One of the big counters to midrange. Fortunately, BBE has helped the matchup immensely. Not only by adding pressure with haste, but also digging further into our deck for Fulminator mages.
Game 1
Opponent is able to assemble T3 Tron and drops a Karn to deal with my goyf. He then follows the Karn up with a Ugin, sacs the Sanctum of Ugin he used to play it, to find a Wurmcoil Engine. Having seen enough, I concede and go to game 2.
Game 2, IN: 3x Fulminator Mage, 1x Ancient Grudge, 1x K-command, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Maelstrom Pulse. OUT: 2x Terminate, 1x Lightning Bolt, 1x LtlH, 3x Scavenging Ooze.
Game 2 and Game 3 play out very similarly, so I'll just combine the reports (Also Tron is not particularly the most interesting of decks to play against.) Early disruption helps keep my opponent from finding key pieces. Fulminator + Kcommand in both games keeps my opponent from assembling Tron, while laying beats with Goyf/BBE to close out the game. Seriously, I feel this matchup is more along the lines of 40-60 (in favor of Tron) than the previous 35-65/30-70 all thanks to BBE.
Final thoughts:
It's probably already apparent and I'm wasting words here, but the reason BBE is so good for GBx is not just the tempo it creates, but the fact it helps us find our sideboard cards and has so many live hits in game 2 and 3. GBx, as an archetype, really shines on Games 2 and 3 and BBE compounds on this immensely.
While we might have less flex slots from adding BBE, our MB is still very flexible in how we approach specific metas.
Changes I will most likely make to my list:
-1x Nihil Spellbomb, +1 Grafdigger's cage. As mentioned by EctoMark, Cage feels more powerful and has utility against CoCo decks, Snapcaster, Lingering Souls & more.
-Finding room for at least 1x Anger of the Gods or Damnation, while I'm generally against sweepers, preferring 1 for 1 removal, I think having 1 in the 75 would be nice for my meta. Would consider removing Kitchen Finks or Abrupt Decay as those two SB cards have felt the weakest to me.
-Possibly removing 1x K-Command in side for a second Ancient Grudge. I've been back and forth on this, but having Ancient Grudge for Tron, Affinity & Lantern is huge. The card is really efficient.
-Adding a Twilight Mire after A25 drops the price a bit.
Once again, big thanks to all you guys for the diligent and deep conversation on how to stack our 75 and to FlyingDelver for writing this wonderful primer.
Keep on Jundin'.
Sure, I'll try to answer all questions asked if possible.
While it is true that Valakut is a critical mass deck and KCommand can get rid of one of their cards for sure, I am not sure we want to spent 3 mana on it. Doesnt seem that effective to me, and seems pretty expensive for just 1 card. I just think I would rather play any threat over KCommand most of the time. I generally had more succes with Turn 1 Discard into Turn 2 Goyf into Turn 3 Fulminatro/Liliana, and trying to beat them down fast.
I like Duress as an option as well, however, I am not a fan of boarding it against Grixis Shadow. I dont like the drawback of not being able to take any threats here (including Snapcaster!), which is almost always more important than discarding answers.
I personally disagree here, Spellbomb is incredibly versatile because it cantrips. Cage is more impactful in certain matchups, but is sometimes useless in other matchups. I don't think it is a good idea to skimp on a good versatile GY hate card when the modern format is that open. Living End is a good example. It is obviously a bad matchup, but I don't want to 100 % loose to it because I dont have any Spellbombs. And Spellbombs can do a ton of work there.
In matchups where its relevant, you can still curve out with Spellbomb, since you can crack it always without having to spend mana. Its not like Relic which costs always 1 mana on each turn it just sits on the battlefield. Spellbomb can cantrip if you want to or need to, but it can also be a simple GY wipe with only needing to spend 1 mana entirely.
Spellbomb is also a very nice card that can replace any worse card in our deck when it comes to sideboarding. I always bring them in if I dont have anymore cards to bring in otherwise and still have dead card in my deck left. Spellbomb is never a bad topdeck. I also do not like Cage in control matchups, which is about attrition. Spellbomb can deal with Snapcaster AND draw a card. Cage is a devastating topdeck on an empty board.
First of all welcome to our Jund forum, always great to see new active players!
This deck is called GW Company. It is a pretty tough matchup for us, as they have lots of hard to deal with threats. I think KCommand is not really that great here, I would leave in some Lilianas instead.
Dont bring in Decay, its a card we cut. It is too narrow and O-Stone is often not the problem we have in this matchup. And snapping of Maps is also very unlikely. Leave in Bolts for extra reach.
I do not recommend Cage against Snapcaster decks and Lingering Souls decks. Those matchups are about attrition. Cage is a dead draw later in the game. Its basically the same with Surgical against those decks. I dont think Cage is good here and I really would not bring it in here. Spellbomb on the other hand, yes please! The only big things Cage is great against now is BR Hollow One (the biggest reason) and CoCo decks as well as Storm potentially (but not my primary reason to run Cage). For pretty much all other matchups I want Spellbomb more personally.
You are welcome, glad you like the primer!
I had a feeling 4x fulminators would be right with bbe. 4x actually makes big tron not feel so bad anymore. It's great against so much.
We also forget that bbe does an invisible thing we don't think about, she filters out the bad topdecks and lands. Instead of drawing three lands she reveals a discard. That's 4 bad topdecks out of the way.
That new sphere card leaked may replace the 4th fulminator.
I've been with you on 2x cages instead of spellbomb. Hollow one made me think how much I want to just stop their graveyard, they can rebuild it insanely fast with 4x loots, 4x inquiries, 4x goblin lores. I have no interest fighting something like living end.
I've been on the 2/2 collective finks plan, too. Finks has utility against mirrors, control and aggro, so it justifies the slots.
Jund is feeling very targeted, more than I'm used to. It's good but it doesn't have blowout matchups. It's an overreaction. My meta feels pretty hard for jund currently. To the point I may play hollow one on Monday.
With the way new jund is, how are you guys beating grixis death shadow? Obviously lotv is the oath to victory, but when that doesn't happen are you guys just going wide? If I don't have removal for their shadows and can't attack them down it feels rough.
Felt easier when we played 3x pushes and 2x decays.
I would attack their hand more, siding out Bolts instead of discard. That way you can snag their threats before they can hit the BF.
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
All the best for the event, crush them! No worries, don't distract yourself from playing tight at the event, if its too stressful.
Here's what I played
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Spells 21
2 Duress
1 Fatal Push
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Dark Confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Harsh Mentor
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Dark Betrayal
1 Damnation
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Glissa, the Traitor
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Engineered Explosives
So, aside from it being 61 which I played just because I couldn't decide on a cut, a few things I noticed:
Kessig in the manabase was pretty terrible.
I'm rethinking 25 lands, 24+ Nissa might be ok, or alternatively just 25 without Nissa. Either way, I should take out the Kessig. If I leave Nissa in, 2 Forests is a must but if I play 25 without I'm starting to think that a 3 Swamp/1 Forest configuration with all black fetches might be best.
Twilight Mire was fantastic, it really helped with having some pain free openings.
On the spell front, Duress overperformed all night long and I was happy with it MB. I could see going up to a 5th discard spell but I'm not sure what I would add in that case. Duress saved a lot of life and had relevant targets against everything I played, and most stuff in the room. I also noticed the versatility and life savings. Being able to grab Gifts Ungiven from Storm, Time Warps, Scapeshifts, and so on was very helpful and more IoK's wouldn't have allowed for that. In particular, against Scapeshift I was able to leverage the ping mode on Brutality plus using Duress to put together a lot of hand disruption while staying at 19+ to dodge a 6 land Scapeshift.
I'm unsure about Dreadbore, I think I might rather just have the second Terminate.
Harsh Mentor was a pretty nice surprise against Affinity G1 and the damage from the triggered ability actually won me the game. Notably, Scavenging Ooze instead of Mentor would not have won it for me. That was the only time all night where I drew it though, and it would have been pretty useless at several other points. I should probably just make it another Scavenging Ooze.
Nissa was... interesting. I ended up drawing her a lot. In 14 games I drew her 5 times and in 3 of those situations she fulfilled the intended purpose of guaranteeing me 4 mana for Bloodbraid. The other two times I didn't cast her. Where she really came in handy though, was in opening hands where I could leverage her to use more Brutality modes on turn 2 while still ensuring I had enough resources. She never flipped, but I suspect she would in midrange games. I have gotten flips against decks like GDS. I'm unsure if I'll leave her in, when she's good she's great but when she's bad she's a dead card
The Chandra+Liliana combo was very potent against Affinity. They were actually in the list as a concession to Lingering Souls but I never played against that all night. What they did do was still enough though. I think Pyromaster is better positioned than Torch of Defiance right now, they both generate CA, but the ability to eliminate blockers or ping down x/1's is pretty great.
In the SB I would like a second Glissa just because it's so hard to beat in combat and Lightning Bolt is somewhat uncommon (though it's obviously around) and I would like a Grafdigger's Cage, likely over the Lavamancer. Another nice thing about Glissa is that it's a reasonable swap for Tarmogoyf when you suspect GY hate is coming in.
Yeah, its has become more often an awkward card now. I am not sure if its right to cut it entirely, as its a good card for an open meta in theory, just like you said.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Flashbangers
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Kolaghan's Command
No No's
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Enablers
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Land
1 Treetop Village
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Dreadbore
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Collective Brutality
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I'm not a fan of sweepers in Jund but I opted for the Anger since it was only a 20 person event and I knew at least two players were on Dredge. I was very pleased with the deck overall.