Do you guys play Anger of the Gods still in the SB? Against the top decks according to goldfish, Anger doesn't seem that amazing. Almost makes me wanna change that to a second Damnation.
I'm on a single Damnation, but I picked up a pair of Bontu's Last Reckoning last night that I want to try as an alternative.
I don't see how that's any better whatsoever. You never want to wrath the board on turn 3 as you'll hit your own Confidant by then. Even if you do, just play Anger as it pretty much hits everything that's gonna be on the table by then (ok, except TKS, but he'll strip the wrath from your hand anyway if it's a clutch card), so you can rebuild the turn after.
I can't even think of many situations where a control deck would want a T3 wrath, let alone a midrange deck like Jund, of which it might conceivably be said that it doesn't really want sweepers in its 75 at all (Reid).
You don't play it on turn 3. You play it on turn 5, then follow up with a Tarmogoyf. It's a 3 mana wrath and a $4 card, I feel obligated to at least test it. People wrote off Collective Brutality as unplayable because it's a sorcery, sometimes cards are better in action than first glance on paper.
There are games against decks like Affinity or any of the Coco decks where, on the draw, 4 mana is just too much. That's where I'm looking to try Bontu's. I understand the downside of having to take your next turn off, but against swarm decks that drop their hands in the first 3 turns that's not as big a deal. You don't bring this in against other midrange decks (where Damnation might normally be acceptable) because taking a turn off is a very big deal there. Jund is also generally playing 5 fast lands and 3 manlands, which all come into play tapped on turn 4. That could potentially be a problem if you're counting on a turn 4 wrath to stabilize. People said for years that Slaughter Pact was bad because it's an expensive cost for it's effect, but it was a 1-of in Jund for most of last year when Infect and Suicide Zoo were top tier decks.
What are some of the most punishing sideboard cards we can play? I'm looking to really hurt or downright stop some decks, but hate cards seem more whites thing. I'm talking things like Surgical Extraction for combo, Collective Brutality for Burn, and Thrun the Last Troll for Blue based control decks.
Also I made some edits for my local meta. I made a pretty educated meta guess, and my local results were near exactly the same to what I expected. As such I've tightened up my sideboard:
The current meta for my area is Affinity, GDS, Burn, Coco, U/W/x control, Eldrazi Tron, and Mirror, in that order of popularity. I'm currently testing the Rabblemaster in the main, but so far think I could be onto a good aggressive 3-drop, especially since Bolt is seeing less play. I also dropped Kitchen Finks because they always felt mediocre against everything except Burn, and even then I feel that matchup is more about hitting a couple good top decks than anything.
Do you guys play Anger of the Gods still in the SB? Against the top decks according to goldfish, Anger doesn't seem that amazing. Almost makes me wanna change that to a second Damnation.
You need Anger against Dredge and decks with a lot of small creatures like Affinity, Counters Company, Elves, Merfolck or decks playing Lingering Souls.
I've always played 2 Maelstrom Pulse (one in the MD and the other in the SB) and never wanted to have less than 2 in my 75.
Right now, here is my side board (preparing GP Birmingham in 3 weeks) :
There are games against decks like Affinity or any of the Coco decks where, on the draw, 4 mana is just too much. That's where I'm looking to try Bontu's. I understand the downside of having to take your next turn off, but against swarm decks that drop their hands in the first 3 turns that's not as big a deal. You don't bring this in against other midrange decks (where Damnation might normally be acceptable) because taking a turn off is a very big deal there. Jund is also generally playing 5 fast lands and 3 manlands, which all come into play tapped on turn 4. That could potentially be a problem if you're counting on a turn 4 wrath to stabilize. People said for years that Slaughter Pact was bad because it's an expensive cost for it's effect, but it was a 1-of in Jund for most of last year when Infect and Suicide Zoo were top tier decks.
I'm not saying it's a bad card, no need to keep bringing up cards that were deemed unplayable in the past and turned out to be good after all, as I don't see what it has to do with the discussion at hand. For every card like that there's 20 *****ty ones that people were right about.
If you want a 3cmc wrath, we already have Anger. It hits everything in the decks you mentioned except Etched Champion, which usually isn't around that early on in the game, and is actually useful against Dredge / Finks / Voice. So why play Bontu and take a turn off?
You need Anger against Dredge and decks with a lot of small creatures like Affinity, Counters Company, Elves, Merfolck or decks playing Lingering Souls.
Well, obviously, but thats not what I was talking about. I don't expect much dredge going around, like I mentioned, according to goldfish there is not much dredge in the current meta. As for Affinity, Damnation #2 would be better I think since it answers Etched Champion, the single most problematic card in Affinity. Against Counters Company, Elves and Merfolk Anger is better than Damnation (except for Master of Waves in Merfolk) but I think we have a decent matchup against those where Damnation would do similar things which does not bother me too much.
The reason why I think Anger should be a second Damnation now is Eldrazi Tron. Its fairly present and requires some dedication. We can't ignore it. And as people realized, Fulminator does not do enough.
Looks like Jund... I know that probably isn't very helpful but honestly, your list looks fine. Lots of the differences are totally in flex positions both in main and side and are really up to you and your meta.
I've been seeing a lot of Chameleon Colossus online, I'm actually considering running a single Roast over my third Terminate. Still hits delve guys and Reality Smasher, but can hit Colossus and Mirran Crusader, as well. I don't think the "without flying" clause is too big a drawback in the current meta, unless I'm missing something.
Hi, I'm an MTGO player new to modern and new to classic jund midrange. I really struggle against D&T in the tournament practice room. Does anyone have any tips for the matchup or thoughts about my list? I'm trying a "balanced" sideboard plan right now as I'm not preparing to attack a specific meta, I just play because I love the cards and the strategy. The way games against D&T play out for me is that they lock me down with Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter, kill all my lands and kill me in the late game with an overwhelming board of small to medium sized creatures after I fail to draw enough spot removal to stabilize, then after sideboarding I can't cast my wraths and they kill me with Miran Crusaders. I'm sure there are lots of changes I could make to my gameplan and to my in-game decision making to improve my match win percentage against them but I don't know where to start. I can appreciate that in theory the matchup shouldn't be terrible because they're trying to kill with creatures but in practice the mana denial really hurts.
Mulligan to a hand where you can strip Arbiter from their hand or kill it immediately once it lands. Him and Thalia are your key targets. The rest should be fairly easy, watch out for Angels and vialed Wisps when you try to kill something.
I really struggle against D&T in the tournament practice room. Does anyone have any tips for the matchup or thoughts?
Ditch Fulminators, add 1 lavamancer, 1 pyroclasm and 1 sulfur elemental to your sb. All the above cards are excellent vs d&t with the perk of being good vs other annoying decks, such as counter company, stuff with lingering souls, affinity, merfolk, elves and so on.
Jesus what? Sulfur Elemental does exactly nothing against Affinity, Merfolk or Elves. Nobody runs that card.
I really struggle against D&T in the tournament practice room. Does anyone have any tips for the matchup or thoughts?
Ditch Fulminators, add 1 lavamancer, 1 pyroclasm and 1 sulfur elemental to your sb. All the above cards are excellent vs d&t with the perk of being good vs other annoying decks, such as counter company, stuff with lingering souls, affinity, merfolk, elves and so on.
Jesus what? Sulfur Elemental does exactly nothing against Affinity, Merfolk or Elves. Nobody runs that card.
Totally, it even doesn't do enough against D&T. Just run Night of Soul's Betrayal.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I don't see how that's any better whatsoever. You never want to wrath the board on turn 3 as you'll hit your own Confidant by then. Even if you do, just play Anger as it pretty much hits everything that's gonna be on the table by then (ok, except TKS, but he'll strip the wrath from your hand anyway if it's a clutch card), so you can rebuild the turn after.
I can't even think of many situations where a control deck would want a T3 wrath, let alone a midrange deck like Jund, of which it might conceivably be said that it doesn't really want sweepers in its 75 at all (Reid).
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also I made some edits for my local meta. I made a pretty educated meta guess, and my local results were near exactly the same to what I expected. As such I've tightened up my sideboard:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
Flash
4 Fatal Push
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
Crash
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Cash
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blooming Marsh
3 Raging Ravine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Anger of the Gods
The current meta for my area is Affinity, GDS, Burn, Coco, U/W/x control, Eldrazi Tron, and Mirror, in that order of popularity. I'm currently testing the Rabblemaster in the main, but so far think I could be onto a good aggressive 3-drop, especially since Bolt is seeing less play. I also dropped Kitchen Finks because they always felt mediocre against everything except Burn, and even then I feel that matchup is more about hitting a couple good top decks than anything.
You need Anger against Dredge and decks with a lot of small creatures like Affinity, Counters Company, Elves, Merfolck or decks playing Lingering Souls.
I've always played 2 Maelstrom Pulse (one in the MD and the other in the SB) and never wanted to have less than 2 in my 75.
Right now, here is my side board (preparing GP Birmingham in 3 weeks) :
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Collective Brutality
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Shatterstorm
Gus
I'm not saying it's a bad card, no need to keep bringing up cards that were deemed unplayable in the past and turned out to be good after all, as I don't see what it has to do with the discussion at hand. For every card like that there's 20 *****ty ones that people were right about.
If you want a 3cmc wrath, we already have Anger. It hits everything in the decks you mentioned except Etched Champion, which usually isn't around that early on in the game, and is actually useful against Dredge / Finks / Voice. So why play Bontu and take a turn off?
What are you going to bring the Fulminators in for?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Well, obviously, but thats not what I was talking about. I don't expect much dredge going around, like I mentioned, according to goldfish there is not much dredge in the current meta. As for Affinity, Damnation #2 would be better I think since it answers Etched Champion, the single most problematic card in Affinity. Against Counters Company, Elves and Merfolk Anger is better than Damnation (except for Master of Waves in Merfolk) but I think we have a decent matchup against those where Damnation would do similar things which does not bother me too much.
The reason why I think Anger should be a second Damnation now is Eldrazi Tron. Its fairly present and requires some dedication. We can't ignore it. And as people realized, Fulminator does not do enough.
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Collective Brutality
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Flex slot
I am just unsure about the last slot. Could either be a third CB, a third Finks, a second Damnation or Anger. Can't decide what I want most.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
Tks!
UR Twin - RIP
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (18)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damnation
Edit: Formatting
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Jesus what? Sulfur Elemental does exactly nothing against Affinity, Merfolk or Elves. Nobody runs that card.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Totally, it even doesn't do enough against D&T. Just run Night of Soul's Betrayal.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki