Based on a bit of feedback here and some brainstorming, I'm trying my list with Thundermaw in the main and a couple small changes. To me, Jund needs to be aggressive to prove itself against a lot of the other grindy decks. On top of this, I expect a lot of Grixis Shadow and Abzan/Mirror at the next event I'll be going to, where I think Thundermaw is a very strong card choice.
I guess I'm just looking for feedback on these decisions. Thoughts? My current list for reference:
Why you don't play the playset of Raging Ravine? It is THE BEST finisher in the deck
In addition, why you play so much removals ?! I think that 9-10 is enough now.
And then, if I play only 3 raging ravine, 1 KCommand and 2 Bolt, it is better to play Abzan with Dark Confidant instead, nope?
A japanese finish in top 16 at GP Kobe with 2 copies in his sideboard to deal with mirror matches (Grixis Death Shadow) and when I saw Craig Wescoe and Théau Mery playing Mirran Crusader for Protection from black, I'm more and more thinking about adding the zombie knight in my 75 ...
Why you don't play the playset of Raging Ravine? It is THE BEST finisher in the deck
In addition, why you play so much removals ?! I think that 9-10 is enough now.
And then, if I play only 3 raging ravine, 1 KCommand and 2 Bolt, it is better to play Abzan with Dark Confidant instead, nope?
I don't like 4 Ravine as we generally increased the amount of Fastlands in our manabase lately. The amount of removal is pretty much stock in this list.
I do play 3 Push, 2 Bolt, 3 Terminate, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 2 Decay and 4 LotV for example.
And 3 Ravine, the SB cards and bob is enough reason to play Jund in my opinion. Bob doesn't work in Abzan.
Delver, you were coming to similar conclusions I was, I had pushed down the 4th push into 3x for 2x bolts. I feel as though 2x Decay is a safety measure
Reid Duke definitely has the right idea where the deck needs to go
I am a little lost on the creature base, the obvious
4x Goyf
3x Scooze
4x Dark Confidant
Just a little unsure on the 4 drop(s) and if a grim lavamancer in the board is right
Also, question, the list was a few months ago, but did anyone play with the list that did well with 4x K Commands, 8 discard, 4 pushes?
By the way, not running 4x LOTV in Jund is a MASSIVE mistake. LOTV is one of the best cards in all of modern, and the 2nd best planeswalker of all time, it's not like Junk where lingering souls clunks the 3 drop spot, Jund should be playing 4 of her. She's fantastic in the meta right now with all these huge creatures
Been finishing 3-1 / 4-0 a few times over the last couple weeks. I took a couple years off and only recently came back; took me a few weeks to get back to competence but now the deck feels buttery smooth and reasonably well-positioned. Last night, didn't drop a single game (Matchups were Fish, BW Eldrazi & Taxes, UW Control, Titanshift in final which I ID'd). My local LGS is somewhat modern-spikey, though, so topping felt pretty good, especially when people are constantly like "why aren't you on DS?" Meh. I like classic.
If anyone's curious, a few takeaways from last night:
-Discard vs. Fish taking their cantrips (notably spreading seas) was great. Really kept him from being able to apply pressure. He did bring in a Clique in G2 which I TS'd out on T3 with Damnation in hand to let him Vial in his Master of Waves just to get wrathed the next turn.
-Eldrazi and Taxes was a grind, especially in G2. I think he thought I wasn't very experienced (probably true), or maybe he just misplayed, but he tried to swing in with a shambling vent and a sculler vs. a fulminator at one point. Block, sac, crack back next turn with Bob. Incidentally, Thundermaw is pretty good vs. Flickerwisps.
-I ulted Lili both games vs UW Control. She's such a house in that matchup. G2 I felt almost bad - I played 5 of my 6 discard and all my bolts, got greedy with Lili and took her to 7 before ulting, kept her at 3 with a pulse in hand until he tried to play a Gideon. I mean, pretty much the definition of Junding 'em out. Discard and Lili REALLY shine here, obviously. Threat density is an issue, though. I have a Thrun in the side but I haven't ever seen him against control. He almost climbed back from 3 lands and 1 life in G1 because I just couldn't find a threat.
-Titanshift felt real bad. We played it out for fun after agreeing to ID, so we both kept some wonky hands and let all sorts of madness slide, but MAN he topdecked so well. I'm really not sure how to strengthen that matchup post-board, even. Maybe Surgical Extraction? What do we even cast it on?
This stuff is probably super obvious to most of you, but I don't really have too much time to play usually, so these are some of the interesting points I came across. For the curious, my list is very close to "stock" except a singleton Thundermaw in the maindeck. I run wolves at 4 mana, 3/3 iok/ts split.
Deck feels good against everything except really big mana, as usual. Glad I decided to keep Jund sleeved up; it's still my favorite. Hope the rest of you are experiencing similar successes and good feels even with us all the way down in Untiered territory
LOTV is one of the best cards in all of modern, and the 2nd best planeswalker of all time, it's not like Junk where lingering souls clunks the 3 drop spot, Jund should be playing 4 of her
I think most lists still do. That being said, LtLH is still great, and can be much better in certain matchups, and since she legend rules herself, I think 3/1 is probably fine. I wouldn't go lower than 3 LotV though. I don't particularly like lavaman, but that's just me. I think I lack the experience to play him correctly. SB tends to be so tight as it is that I can never find room; I feel like there are better things I can be doing with those slots.
For me it's always been a personal preference to play 1 more Terminate over the 4th LotV. I always seem to have multiples in hand and would rather have the cheaper removal effect. As for 4 drops, I agree. It's a very mixed bag of whatever you want to do. I've been trying out Hazoret lately and it's been great when it resolves but I know I also wouldn't want more than 1 and even then I'm not yet convinced if it's better than the other options. Currently my 3 "4 cmc threats" package has been 1x Huntmaster, 1x Olivia, 1x Tireless Tracker. I've always liked having a series of 1x rather than multiples of the same because they each have roles where they excel differently and I like having the chance to have each when they will shine. With the fall off of the Counter Company decks again, I've removed Lavamancer from the MD and have been contemplating if he still has a home in the SB.
Been finishing 3-1 / 4-0 a few times over the last couple weeks. I took a couple years off and only recently came back; took me a few weeks to get back to competence but now the deck feels buttery smooth and reasonably well-positioned. Last night, didn't drop a single game (Matchups were Fish, BW Eldrazi & Taxes, UW Control, Titanshift in final which I ID'd). My local LGS is somewhat modern-spikey, though, so topping felt pretty good, especially when people are constantly like "why aren't you on DS?" Meh. I like classic.
If anyone's curious, a few takeaways from last night:
-Discard vs. Fish taking their cantrips (notably spreading seas) was great. Really kept him from being able to apply pressure. He did bring in a Clique in G2 which I TS'd out on T3 with Damnation in hand to let him Vial in his Master of Waves just to get wrathed the next turn.
-Eldrazi and Taxes was a grind, especially in G2. I think he thought I wasn't very experienced (probably true), or maybe he just misplayed, but he tried to swing in with a shambling vent and a sculler vs. a fulminator at one point. Block, sac, crack back next turn with Bob. Incidentally, Thundermaw is pretty good vs. Flickerwisps.
-I ulted Lili both games vs UW Control. She's such a house in that matchup. G2 I felt almost bad - I played 5 of my 6 discard and all my bolts, got greedy with Lili and took her to 7 before ulting, kept her at 3 with a pulse in hand until he tried to play a Gideon. I mean, pretty much the definition of Junding 'em out. Discard and Lili REALLY shine here, obviously. Threat density is an issue, though. I have a Thrun in the side but I haven't ever seen him against control. He almost climbed back from 3 lands and 1 life in G1 because I just couldn't find a threat.
-Titanshift felt real bad. We played it out for fun after agreeing to ID, so we both kept some wonky hands and let all sorts of madness slide, but MAN he topdecked so well. I'm really not sure how to strengthen that matchup post-board, even. Maybe Surgical Extraction? What do we even cast it on?
This stuff is probably super obvious to most of you, but I don't really have too much time to play usually, so these are some of the interesting points I came across. For the curious, my list is very close to "stock" except a singleton Thundermaw in the maindeck. I run wolves at 4 mana, 3/3 iok/ts split.
Deck feels good against everything except really big mana, as usual. Glad I decided to keep Jund sleeved up; it's still my favorite. Hope the rest of you are experiencing similar successes and good feels even with us all the way down in Untiered territory
LOTV is one of the best cards in all of modern, and the 2nd best planeswalker of all time, it's not like Junk where lingering souls clunks the 3 drop spot, Jund should be playing 4 of her
I think most lists still do. That being said, LtLH is still great, and can be much better in certain matchups, and since she legend rules herself, I think 3/1 is probably fine. I wouldn't go lower than 3 LotV though. I don't particularly like lavaman, but that's just me. I think I lack the experience to play him correctly. SB tends to be so tight as it is that I can never find room; I feel like there are better things I can be doing with those slots.
Sure, though I obsessively change my list slightly just about every time I play. I'll try to recreate last night's as best I can. I'll add notes below.
3 Bobs because right now that's all I have. I'll be changing that pretty quickly; I'm just lazy, 3 has worked, and I don't have a lot of time or money to put toward MTG right now (and I'm really bad at hoarding cards instead of trading for stuff). I've also thought about trying out a Grim Flayer in that slot because I find the card interesting and haven't done any testing with him.
I'll probably switch the push/bolt spread. I have an unreasonable attachment to lightning bolt and don't like the amount of things Push doesn't kill when bolt could at least force a trade or dome someone. I might go up to 9 fetches if I do. My locals have an inordinately high number of target-lite control lists, too.
3/3 discard split because IoK misses enough things I care about nowadays that I prefer the extra security in being able to nab the problem cards vs. the life.
3 LotV because I never picked up the 4th back when I was building the deck for some reason, and LtLH is waaaay cheaper and very interesting. I've yet to really do anything cool with her, though, as she's a pretty recent acquisition. I thought about Chandra, Torch of Defiance but I'm already running a fairly high curve for Jund and the reviews I've seen here and other places have been fairly underwhelming. I may decide to go full 4 LotV at some point, though.
Brutality switches from main to side but lately I've been draining myself so much between mana fixing, bob, and thoughtseize that I felt like squeezing a bit more MB lifegain.
2 Scoozes instead of 3 because... I don't know. I'm never super jazzed with Scooze, honestly. I have like a million of them though so maybe I'll jam another in there. Seems like it'd help alleviate my threat issues and painful mana some.
The sideboard is in constant flux. I've tried Crumble to Dust, Blood Moon because I love that card, Shatterstorm, another huntmaster, Duress... I mean, the list goes on. I've even jammed a Stormbreath Dragon in there because yay dragons and FU path to exile. I've run a Languish here before and that felt REALLY good when I kept a goyf or dragon, but I'm scared enough by what it doesn't kill that I don't think I'd take it over an actual wrath effect. Still, beats weird indestructible tech I guess?
The thundermaw is a pet card, but even in non-Souls matchups it pulls its weight. I doubt I'll cut him anytime soon.
Edit: I tried a single Mountain in place of the 2nd Forest, and to be honest, I actually really liked it. I might switch back; didn't run into Blood Moon this week (but LAST WEEK omg everywhere), and being able to tutor my 2nd red off a path or shockless fetch for a hellkite felt pretty good. Spreading Seas is very common at my LGS, too.
Hopefully last edit: I've been kinda toying with a mana sink card like Rakdos's Return or something just to break up the awful draw-go topdeck wars I get into with all the local control players. Anyone tried something dumb like this?
Just kidding, more edits: The Pulse of Murasa in the sideboard is a new(ish) idea I wanted to try anticipating Burn, which I didn't pair up against. I didn't draw it all night but it still seems to have fringe applications against other stuff where recursion, life, or even mana fixing matters. Speaking of pulses, I'm probably gonna add another Maelstrom Pulse because I've been seeing a lot of problematic 'walkers around my shops lately. Anyone played with multiples regularly?
Some things I'm interested in trying:
Kalitas. Never tested him. Lifelink is dope tho.
Rhonas. I tried a wolf-run once but let's just say colored mana is pretty important to the deck...
Tireless Tracker.
Painful Truths.
Hell, maybe a Thragtusk in the board.
I mean the best and worst thing about Jund is how flexible it can be. It's great to try things and tune to a meta, it's awful having a brewer's mentality and always wanting to try new things, never being satisfied with your list. I just love the deck too much to stop, I guess.
Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Happy to discuss!
For me it's always been a personal preference to play 1 more Terminate over the 4th LotV.
Tbh Terminate is so good in my meta that I play a 61 card deck just to be able to fit 4x lillys and 4x terminates. I've never had any issues with that and the deck runs smoothly.
I went to 61 cards post-board against... UW I think? Worked out fine. Don't think I have the stones to try it very often, but it's good to hear that you're pulling it off consistently.
Sure, though I obsessively change my list slightly just about every time I play. I'll try to recreate last night's as best I can. I'll add notes below.
3 Bobs because right now that's all I have. I'll be changing that pretty quickly; I'm just lazy, 3 has worked, and I don't have a lot of time or money to put toward MTG right now (and I'm really bad at hoarding cards instead of trading for stuff). I've also thought about trying out a Grim Flayer in that slot because I find the card interesting and haven't done any testing with him.
I'll probably switch the push/bolt spread. I have an unreasonable attachment to lightning bolt and don't like the amount of things Push doesn't kill when bolt could at least force a trade or dome someone. I might go up to 9 fetches if I do. My locals have an inordinately high number of target-lite control lists, too.
3/3 discard split because IoK misses enough things I care about nowadays that I prefer the extra security in being able to nab the problem cards vs. the life.
3 LotV because I never picked up the 4th back when I was building the deck for some reason, and LtLH is waaaay cheaper and very interesting. I've yet to really do anything cool with her, though, as she's a pretty recent acquisition. I thought about Chandra, Torch of Defiance but I'm already running a fairly high curve for Jund and the reviews I've seen here and other places have been fairly underwhelming. I may decide to go full 4 LotV at some point, though.
Brutality switches from main to side but lately I've been draining myself so much between mana fixing, bob, and thoughtseize that I felt like squeezing a bit more MB lifegain.
2 Scoozes instead of 3 because... I don't know. I'm never super jazzed with Scooze, honestly. I have like a million of them though so maybe I'll jam another in there. Seems like it'd help alleviate my threat issues and painful mana some.
The sideboard is in constant flux. I've tried Crumble to Dust, Blood Moon because I love that card, Shatterstorm, another huntmaster, Duress... I mean, the list goes on. I've even jammed a Stormbreath Dragon in there because yay dragons and FU path to exile. I've run a Languish here before and that felt REALLY good when I kept a goyf or dragon, but I'm scared enough by what it doesn't kill that I don't think I'd take it over an actual wrath effect. Still, beats weird indestructible tech I guess?
The thundermaw is a pet card, but even in non-Souls matchups it pulls its weight. I doubt I'll cut him anytime soon.
Edit: I tried a single Mountain in place of the 2nd Forest, and to be honest, I actually really liked it. I might switch back; didn't run into Blood Moon this week (but LAST WEEK omg everywhere), and being able to tutor my 2nd red off a path or shockless fetch for a hellkite felt pretty good. Spreading Seas is very common at my LGS, too.
Hopefully last edit: I've been kinda toying with a mana sink card like Rakdos's Return or something just to break up the awful draw-go topdeck wars I get into with all the local control players. Anyone tried something dumb like this?
Just kidding, more edits: The Pulse of Murasa in the sideboard is a new(ish) idea I wanted to try anticipating Burn, which I didn't pair up against. I didn't draw it all night but it still seems to have fringe applications against other stuff where recursion, life, or even mana fixing matters. Speaking of pulses, I'm probably gonna add another Maelstrom Pulse because I've been seeing a lot of problematic 'walkers around my shops lately. Anyone played with multiples regularly?
Some things I'm interested in trying:
Kalitas. Never tested him. Lifelink is dope tho.
Rhonas. I tried a wolf-run once but let's just say colored mana is pretty important to the deck...
Tireless Tracker.
Painful Truths.
Hell, maybe a Thragtusk in the board.
I mean the best and worst thing about Jund is how flexible it can be. It's great to try things and tune to a meta, it's awful having a brewer's mentality and always wanting to try new things, never being satisfied with your list. I just love the deck too much to stop, I guess.
Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Happy to discuss!
Thanks, I mainly wanted to see how you handled you 4+ drops because I've been having a small crisis with them myself. I currently just 1 of of Huntmaster, Olivia and T-Maw in the main with Thrun in the side. I've been testing T-Maw main and so far I love it, having such a vicious top end feels amazing a lot of the time, and with a good number of Souls decks running around he sometimes gets added utility. There's also generally low amounts of flying creatures around, so sometimes he wins the game on his own
If anyone's curious, a few takeaways from last night:
-Discard vs. Fish taking their cantrips (notably spreading seas) was great. Really kept him from being able to apply pressure. He did bring in a Clique in G2 which I TS'd out on T3 with Damnation in hand to let him Vial in his Master of Waves just to get wrathed the next turn.
Yeah thats what you gotta do vs. fish. Always take their CA cards, 100 %.
-Eldrazi and Taxes was a grind, especially in G2. I think he thought I wasn't very experienced (probably true), or maybe he just misplayed, but he tried to swing in with a shambling vent and a sculler vs. a fulminator at one point. Block, sac, crack back next turn with Bob. Incidentally, Thundermaw is pretty good vs. Flickerwisps.
Did your opponent keep vials in postboard?
-Titanshift felt real bad. We played it out for fun after agreeing to ID, so we both kept some wonky hands and let all sorts of madness slide, but MAN he topdecked so well. I'm really not sure how to strengthen that matchup post-board, even. Maybe Surgical Extraction? What do we even cast it on?
Surgical on Valakut is ofc the best you can do, usually this needs a Fulminator though. Blood Moon is also decent against them. They need green to cast their spells and especially double green can get them if you resolve an early BM. But BM in Jund is very shacky and I think its not worth it.
Brutality switches from main to side but lately I've been draining myself so much between mana fixing, bob, and thoughtseize that I felt like squeezing a bit more MB lifegain.
I think they new addition of Blooming Marsh lowers the overall need to dmg yourself through lands, which makes CB less of a needed life gain card. I do not run CB MB, but I think its a solid MB choice for an open field. But I think having it MB works worse than in Junk.
2 Scoozes instead of 3 because... I don't know. I'm never super jazzed with Scooze, honestly. I have like a million of them though so maybe I'll jam another in there. Seems like it'd help alleviate my threat issues and painful mana some.
I really advice going for 3 Oozes. MB GY hate is quite useful against go wide strategies (CoCo decks) as well as Grixis DS and Living End and Dredge and Storm to a certain extent. This is basically the top decks right now.
Edit: I tried a single Mountain in place of the 2nd Forest, and to be honest, I actually really liked it. I might switch back; didn't run into Blood Moon this week (but LAST WEEK omg everywhere), and being able to tutor my 2nd red off a path or shockless fetch for a hellkite felt pretty good. Spreading Seas is very common at my LGS, too.
I think a mountain is too painful to have. I tried playing it but it didn't perform well for me. Right now I have 2 Swamp and 1 Forest and even that Forest is sometimes such a bad land. It is really only needed to lower fetching dmg and have outs for BM. With Mountain only one of that things apply. And I think this is not worth it at all.
So, the new death and taxes is actually getting really popular on mtgo and in paper, along with affinity, do you guys think going back to 2x K-Command again could be good? (for those who traditionally ran 1)
While big mana still rolls this deck, I definitely am noticing an uptick in creature wide decks in paper and on digital
I wish there was more Reid Duke or big name players running Jund to get a better consensus on where this deck should be going, I am for once at a total loss on which 4 drops to run, grim lavamancer or no, and combination of pushes, bolts and decay.
So, the new death and taxes is actually getting really popular on mtgo and in paper, along with affinity, do you guys think going back to 2x K-Command again could be good? (for those who traditionally ran 1)
While big mana still rolls this deck, I definitely am noticing an uptick in creature wide decks in paper and on digital
I wish there was more Reid Duke or big name players running Jund to get a better consensus on where this deck should be going, I am for once at a total loss on which 4 drops to run, grim lavamancer or no, and combination of pushes, bolts and decay.
Kommand is definitely rising again in value but I think I am going to be testing Claim//Fame when it is released and they sit in similar spots (normally I'm willing to play them together but until I determine if I like Claim//Fame and how many I want, I'll need to play more of them then I would normally just to ensure I draw them consistently.
Claim to fame will not be a deck in this version of Jund, there is nothing devastating about my Goyf coming back, I think K-Commands versatile is better against an open meta.
Nope, sure didn't. Interestingly, my fish opponent Round 1 did.
Surgical on Valakut is ofc the best you can do, usually this needs a Fulminator though. Blood Moon is also decent against them. They need green to cast their spells and especially double green can get them if you resolve an early BM. But BM in Jund is very shacky and I think its not worth it.
Having tried BM in Jund before, I'm inclined to agree. I guess Fulminator into Surgical will have to do for now.
I really advice going for 3 Oozes. MB GY hate is quite useful against go wide strategies (CoCo decks) as well as Grixis DS and Living End and Dredge and Storm to a certain extent. This is basically the top decks right now.
Yeah, I think I'll go back to 3 for a while; the meta has shifted a ton since I quit and came back so it's a different world out there, for one.
I think a mountain is too painful to have. I tried playing it but it didn't perform well for me. Right now I have 2 Swamp and 1 Forest and even that Forest is sometimes such a bad land. It is really only needed to lower fetching dmg and have outs for BM. With Mountain only one of that things apply. And I think this is not worth it at all.
No idea why you would run a singleton Mountain, I can just imagine how awkward an opening hand with one of those must be.
Hey, man, I just said I had ideas; I never said I had good ones ;p
Honestly, though, just having the option off a path to grab red for fixing. I think it's probably a warping effect due to how often my UW control-playing buddy wants me to test vs. him, so I'm used to being both color screwed by Seas and path'd out of basics, which isn't a common occurrence against ANY other deck. I'm gonna try an extra fastland in place of Forest #2 for now, so back to 3 basics. I've been lucky dodging the awkward openers, but I agree costs do not compare favorably with benefits in this case.
Thanks, I mainly wanted to see how you handled you 4+ drops because I've been having a small crisis with them myself. I currently just 1 of of Huntmaster, Olivia and T-Maw in the main with Thrun in the side. I've been testing T-Maw main and so far I love it, having such a vicious top end feels amazing a lot of the time, and with a good number of Souls decks running around he sometimes gets added utility. There's also generally low amounts of flying creatures around, so sometimes he wins the game on his own
I think that split is probably fine; it could also be very meta-dependent, but since it sounds like you see Abzan a lot I think Olivia is very maindeckable. Super high five on the Thundermaw tech, though; I've been a big fan since I first tried it. Really cool to see someone else going for it and loving it
I agree in the current iteration of Jund it may not be the best but it's not just about the Claim side. Folks will care if you can return and grant haste and +2/+0 is a pretty serious threat. It's certainly that is worth testing out. It's also likely that it belongs in a deck that uses Grim Flayers as well.
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I would definetely play the fourth Bloodstained Mire to have 9 fetchlands, especially with 4 pushes main.
In addition, why you play so much removals ?! I think that 9-10 is enough now.
And then, if I play only 3 raging ravine, 1 KCommand and 2 Bolt, it is better to play Abzan with Dark Confidant instead, nope?
A japanese finish in top 16 at GP Kobe with 2 copies in his sideboard to deal with mirror matches (Grixis Death Shadow) and when I saw Craig Wescoe and Théau Mery playing Mirran Crusader for Protection from black, I'm more and more thinking about adding the zombie knight in my 75 ...
Gus
I don't like 4 Ravine as we generally increased the amount of Fastlands in our manabase lately. The amount of removal is pretty much stock in this list.
I do play 3 Push, 2 Bolt, 3 Terminate, 2 KCommand, 1 Pulse, 2 Decay and 4 LotV for example.
And 3 Ravine, the SB cards and bob is enough reason to play Jund in my opinion. Bob doesn't work in Abzan.
Reid Duke definitely has the right idea where the deck needs to go
I am a little lost on the creature base, the obvious
4x Goyf
3x Scooze
4x Dark Confidant
Just a little unsure on the 4 drop(s) and if a grim lavamancer in the board is right
Also, question, the list was a few months ago, but did anyone play with the list that did well with 4x K Commands, 8 discard, 4 pushes?
If anyone's curious, a few takeaways from last night:
-Discard vs. Fish taking their cantrips (notably spreading seas) was great. Really kept him from being able to apply pressure. He did bring in a Clique in G2 which I TS'd out on T3 with Damnation in hand to let him Vial in his Master of Waves just to get wrathed the next turn.
-Eldrazi and Taxes was a grind, especially in G2. I think he thought I wasn't very experienced (probably true), or maybe he just misplayed, but he tried to swing in with a shambling vent and a sculler vs. a fulminator at one point. Block, sac, crack back next turn with Bob. Incidentally, Thundermaw is pretty good vs. Flickerwisps.
-I ulted Lili both games vs UW Control. She's such a house in that matchup. G2 I felt almost bad - I played 5 of my 6 discard and all my bolts, got greedy with Lili and took her to 7 before ulting, kept her at 3 with a pulse in hand until he tried to play a Gideon. I mean, pretty much the definition of Junding 'em out. Discard and Lili REALLY shine here, obviously. Threat density is an issue, though. I have a Thrun in the side but I haven't ever seen him against control. He almost climbed back from 3 lands and 1 life in G1 because I just couldn't find a threat.
-Titanshift felt real bad. We played it out for fun after agreeing to ID, so we both kept some wonky hands and let all sorts of madness slide, but MAN he topdecked so well. I'm really not sure how to strengthen that matchup post-board, even. Maybe Surgical Extraction? What do we even cast it on?
This stuff is probably super obvious to most of you, but I don't really have too much time to play usually, so these are some of the interesting points I came across. For the curious, my list is very close to "stock" except a singleton Thundermaw in the maindeck. I run wolves at 4 mana, 3/3 iok/ts split.
Deck feels good against everything except really big mana, as usual. Glad I decided to keep Jund sleeved up; it's still my favorite. Hope the rest of you are experiencing similar successes and good feels even with us all the way down in Untiered territory
I think most lists still do. That being said, LtLH is still great, and can be much better in certain matchups, and since she legend rules herself, I think 3/1 is probably fine. I wouldn't go lower than 3 LotV though. I don't particularly like lavaman, but that's just me. I think I lack the experience to play him correctly. SB tends to be so tight as it is that I can never find room; I feel like there are better things I can be doing with those slots.
Do you have a list you could post?
Sure, though I obsessively change my list slightly just about every time I play. I'll try to recreate last night's as best I can. I'll add notes below.
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
2 Forest
3 Raging Ravine
Stuff
3 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Kolaghan's Command
Other Stuff
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Things
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damnation
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Fulminator Mage
3 Bobs because right now that's all I have. I'll be changing that pretty quickly; I'm just lazy, 3 has worked, and I don't have a lot of time or money to put toward MTG right now (and I'm really bad at hoarding cards instead of trading for stuff). I've also thought about trying out a Grim Flayer in that slot because I find the card interesting and haven't done any testing with him.
I'll probably switch the push/bolt spread. I have an unreasonable attachment to lightning bolt and don't like the amount of things Push doesn't kill when bolt could at least force a trade or dome someone. I might go up to 9 fetches if I do. My locals have an inordinately high number of target-lite control lists, too.
3/3 discard split because IoK misses enough things I care about nowadays that I prefer the extra security in being able to nab the problem cards vs. the life.
3 LotV because I never picked up the 4th back when I was building the deck for some reason, and LtLH is waaaay cheaper and very interesting. I've yet to really do anything cool with her, though, as she's a pretty recent acquisition. I thought about Chandra, Torch of Defiance but I'm already running a fairly high curve for Jund and the reviews I've seen here and other places have been fairly underwhelming. I may decide to go full 4 LotV at some point, though.
Brutality switches from main to side but lately I've been draining myself so much between mana fixing, bob, and thoughtseize that I felt like squeezing a bit more MB lifegain.
2 Scoozes instead of 3 because... I don't know. I'm never super jazzed with Scooze, honestly. I have like a million of them though so maybe I'll jam another in there. Seems like it'd help alleviate my threat issues and painful mana some.
The sideboard is in constant flux. I've tried Crumble to Dust, Blood Moon because I love that card, Shatterstorm, another huntmaster, Duress... I mean, the list goes on. I've even jammed a Stormbreath Dragon in there because yay dragons and FU path to exile. I've run a Languish here before and that felt REALLY good when I kept a goyf or dragon, but I'm scared enough by what it doesn't kill that I don't think I'd take it over an actual wrath effect. Still, beats weird indestructible tech I guess?
The thundermaw is a pet card, but even in non-Souls matchups it pulls its weight. I doubt I'll cut him anytime soon.
Edit: I tried a single Mountain in place of the 2nd Forest, and to be honest, I actually really liked it. I might switch back; didn't run into Blood Moon this week (but LAST WEEK omg everywhere), and being able to tutor my 2nd red off a path or shockless fetch for a hellkite felt pretty good. Spreading Seas is very common at my LGS, too.
Hopefully last edit: I've been kinda toying with a mana sink card like Rakdos's Return or something just to break up the awful draw-go topdeck wars I get into with all the local control players. Anyone tried something dumb like this?
Just kidding, more edits: The Pulse of Murasa in the sideboard is a new(ish) idea I wanted to try anticipating Burn, which I didn't pair up against. I didn't draw it all night but it still seems to have fringe applications against other stuff where recursion, life, or even mana fixing matters. Speaking of pulses, I'm probably gonna add another Maelstrom Pulse because I've been seeing a lot of problematic 'walkers around my shops lately. Anyone played with multiples regularly?
Some things I'm interested in trying:
Kalitas. Never tested him. Lifelink is dope tho.
Rhonas. I tried a wolf-run once but let's just say colored mana is pretty important to the deck...
Tireless Tracker.
Painful Truths.
Hell, maybe a Thragtusk in the board.
I mean the best and worst thing about Jund is how flexible it can be. It's great to try things and tune to a meta, it's awful having a brewer's mentality and always wanting to try new things, never being satisfied with your list. I just love the deck too much to stop, I guess.
Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Happy to discuss!
I went to 61 cards post-board against... UW I think? Worked out fine. Don't think I have the stones to try it very often, but it's good to hear that you're pulling it off consistently.
Thanks, I mainly wanted to see how you handled you 4+ drops because I've been having a small crisis with them myself. I currently just 1 of of Huntmaster, Olivia and T-Maw in the main with Thrun in the side. I've been testing T-Maw main and so far I love it, having such a vicious top end feels amazing a lot of the time, and with a good number of Souls decks running around he sometimes gets added utility. There's also generally low amounts of flying creatures around, so sometimes he wins the game on his own
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
While big mana still rolls this deck, I definitely am noticing an uptick in creature wide decks in paper and on digital
I wish there was more Reid Duke or big name players running Jund to get a better consensus on where this deck should be going, I am for once at a total loss on which 4 drops to run, grim lavamancer or no, and combination of pushes, bolts and decay.
Kommand is definitely rising again in value but I think I am going to be testing Claim//Fame when it is released and they sit in similar spots (normally I'm willing to play them together but until I determine if I like Claim//Fame and how many I want, I'll need to play more of them then I would normally just to ensure I draw them consistently.
Hey, man, I just said I had ideas; I never said I had good ones ;p
Honestly, though, just having the option off a path to grab red for fixing. I think it's probably a warping effect due to how often my UW control-playing buddy wants me to test vs. him, so I'm used to being both color screwed by Seas and path'd out of basics, which isn't a common occurrence against ANY other deck. I'm gonna try an extra fastland in place of Forest #2 for now, so back to 3 basics. I've been lucky dodging the awkward openers, but I agree costs do not compare favorably with benefits in this case.
I think that split is probably fine; it could also be very meta-dependent, but since it sounds like you see Abzan a lot I think Olivia is very maindeckable. Super high five on the Thundermaw tech, though; I've been a big fan since I first tried it. Really cool to see someone else going for it and loving it