EDF is great! Jus not sure of the numbers. i'm doing a 1/3 EDF and DoH split. not sure if 2/2 is the way to go.
or replace worldbreaker w an EDF in the sb.
I had Worldbreaker in the main still due to my control heavy meta and I essentially swapped out that and my flex slot (Which had Elspeth) for the 2 EDF. I liked having 2 because of those times when you can chain them together and close out the game. Currently I dropped to 2 Drowner of Hope to test out Eldritch Evolution but if I end up not liking that I might go to a 3/2 split of Drowner to EDF and add another Skyspawner to the list.
Hi guys
I need some help to know how to sideboarding vs jund. Do you keep spellskites? Are denial and negate good in?
I side in 1 worldbreaker, 3 explosives, 1 needle today in testings, but don't know if it's the good plan
What are your thoughts on it?
Has anyone test Sea Gate Wreckage in the main as the 24th land instead of ghost quarters? This deck is so great when it has constant pressure and when I go hellbent most decks can eventually stabilize. Sea Gate Wreckage has been a monster for me and has just won Me games from being able to draw two cards each turn. It doesn't get ghost quartered either because Eldrazi temple is seen as much more threatening 99% of the time.
I love the card and I'm trying to find another land to take out to make room for two. Most likely it would be one of the two forests and just go down to the two basics. I'm not sure if I can do that with blood moon but the matchup vs that card is trash anyways.
Anyone else tried Lead the Stampede? Been using it as a 1-of and it does a great job of refuelling our hand. Gather the Pack is also interesting, if we can get spell mastery, cos i've never gotten more than 3 creatures w LtS before too.
I just posted about it but if you're running out of cards to play then give Sea Gate Wreckage a try. It's been doing amazing for me. Also if youre going to play one of those that you mentioned I would be more inclined to just play oath of Nissas.
Hi guys
I need some help to know how to sideboarding vs jund. Do you keep spellskites? Are denial and negate good in?
I side in 1 worldbreaker, 3 explosives, 1 needle today in testings, but don't know if it's the good plan
What are your thoughts on it?
I never side in explosives vs Jund. I don't know what you're bringing in EE there for? Our creatures outclass theirs easily - other than Goyf occasionally getting large. I would bring in any creatures resilient to removal such as Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, and Worldbreaker. I'm never sure with Spellskites either, but I tend to side them out unless I really need the early blocker or they really shine in the matchup (i.e. vs Bogles or Infect). Game 1 I'll accept them as a semi dead card since they can protect my other creatures, but Game 2 and 3 I just want to push my main game plan as hard as I can.
vs Jund I go something like:
+2 Finks
+1 Swagtusk
+1 Worldbreaker
+2 Stubborn Denial
Birds and Hierarchs against removal heavy decks I like to side out. Displacer is hard to get value from against these types of decks as well - the situations where you can keep Displacer + Drowner / TKS out are rare against them, and if you're at that point you're already at quite the advantage barring Damnation which wouldn't matter with Displacer out or not.
Siding in EE against Jund is def worth it - often you need to remove Bob otherwise we just die to the CA - it hits tons of there two drops that are for sure problematic for us - Scooze esp.
Although our creatures in theory outclass there's - they have tons of removal..
Another card I like to bring in against Jund is Rest In peace - hosing there goyfs, scooze's and sided Finks (which the always bring in) gives you the edge..
I still stick by not bringing in EE against spell heavy decks like Jund. You don't want to dilute your main game plan too much so don't oversideboard. If you have to make room for 2-3 EE as well, I guess cut all the rest of your Hierarchs. You'll be going for a more midrange and long game against them anyways, so losing the explosive starts and mana fixing isn't as big a deal.
I still stick by not bringing in EE against spell heavy decks like Jund. You don't want to dilute your main game plan too much so don't oversideboard. If you have to make room for 2-3 EE as well, I guess cut all the rest of your Hierarchs. You'll be going for a more midrange and long game against them anyways, so losing the explosive starts and mana fixing isn't as big a deal.
This. Diluties gameplan, makes Goyf bigger and they can easily remove it too which means it's a T4 play. There are better things to do. Jund is an easy matchup, stock up on a high density of threats and keep getting 2 for 1's whenever possible. Elder Deep Fiend also seems amazing here because a timewalk against them will let you set up lethal more often than not. Typically I cut most if not all my dorks in this matchup. You want live draws. Hierarch is still good but BoP is definitely axed. I only have like 1-2 actual threats in the SB though so typically I bring in World Breaker and Swagtusk and take out BoP and 1 Noble.
Tuesday Tournament Report: 30 People
Round 1: Infect (2-1)[1-0]: Game 1 he had turn 3 (my turn 2) kill with Vines on blighted agent… gotta love infect. Game 2 I stuck a T2 Eldrazi Skyspawner to block his Inkmoth Nexus. He didn’t have enough to pump it so he passed his 2nd turn. I drop a Displacer with mana to blink the following turn. He animates and swings in. I block with Skyspawner, he pumps and then I blink my skyspawner to net me another Scion. I crash in for 3 with Displacer and know I have him beat. I Emerge Elder Deep Fiend sacing my Noble Heirarch to tap down his lands. He is unable to adequately respond. I untap and play a Reality Smasher and crash in for 17 and lethal (Skyspawner 2/1, 2 Scions 1/1’s, Displacer 3/3, EDF 5/6, Smasher 5/5). Game 3 he had to mulligan to 5. I got T2 Displacer and he dropped a T3 Geist. This made me very happy because with no infect creatures onboard and me at 18 still I dropped TKS instead of being forced to hold open mana. He had a Become immense, Groundswell and lands. I rip the next pump with a TKS the following turn and then crash in for lethal with a Smasher.
Round 2: Lantern Control (2-0)[2-0]: I won’t go through each game because they essentially came down to the same thing. We provide a very very fast clock and he couldn’t find a bridge fast enough. My opponent was very very adamant that this matchup was fine for him but we have what feels like a million outs to what they are doing and worse yet I was able to use Elder Deep Fiend to keep him tapped out turns 3 and 4 for game 2. Even if he had topdecked the bridge (which I saw he wasn’t going to do) he couldn’t cast it anyway. All this ignores that we can blink TKS to mill them to death as well as let them draw cards by blinking TKS and then crash in for lethal amounts of damage.
Round 3: Burn (1-2)[2-1]: Burn is an awful matchup that I have all but conceded. While I am testing out the new cards I even took my only answer (Thragtusk) out of my sideboard. The match still came down to a single draw. Game 1 he had what burn wants, the play, T1 Guide and then he Searing Blazed my Heirarch for the TFB. Game 2 I had a fast hand and a bit of luck. He swings in on turn 3 with Goblin Guide and 2 Swiftspears into my Matter Reshaper. I block the Guide, he bolts my face and then I path one of the Swiftspears. My Reshaper finds a 2nd reshaper. I am at 8. He is also pseudo out of gas. Now came the interesting part. I drop a Noble Heirarch and swing in for 4. He takes. Next turn he just passes. I then untap and come in for 4 again. He uses Deflecting Palm which I let resolve then Path my Reshaper and play a Displacer form hand. I am in a position to set up lethal if all goes well (I crash in for 3 putting him to 10 and then I EDF tap him out and then smasher for lethal). He has another Deflecting Palm so I EDF immediately to prevent it. The next turn I crash in with EDF putting him to 4 and play TKS to see what’s going on in his hand. He responds with a flurry of burn spells bringing me to 1 and I take the last card out of his hand. I pass and he flips the top card.. Atarka Command. Welp sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Round 4: Infect (2-0)[3-1]: You know for being a bad matchup, my deck loves to let me draw stupid nonsense against this deck. Elder Deep fiend put in some more serious work in this matchup allowing me to leave blink mana open to disrupt my opponent and then when I had enough for lethal I Emerge it in, tap all his things down and come in for the lethal 10. Game 2 he kept a T2 kill but I had the path for the T1 Glistener Elf and he never drew another infect creature. This allowed me to make quick work of him (T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 EDF, T5 Smasher).
Eldritch Evolution hasn’t really come up and impressed me just yet so I will be taking it out most likely. Elder Deep Fiend on the other hand has been caressing the dark recesses of my soul that make me want to do evil things to my opponent. Tap your lands down then crash in for 10 has come up more than I think it should and his ability to close out a game is absurd. I think I am going to leave myself at 2 Drowner of Hope since they are awkwardly costed at 6 and go up 2 more Skyspawners (to a total of 4). This will give me 12 3cmc creatures to help with 4 CMC EDF. I am also doing a slight modification to my landbase (-1 Badland +1 Yavamaya Coast) to account for the added UU symbols on deep fiend.
Well if your strategy is working for you - awesome - RIP is a great card against Jund IMO, as is Explosives. I guess you dont ever have to face down Bob grinding you out like I have..
Have no idea why you would want to keep dorks in against Jund..
Currently testing the following list for GP Lille (26-28/08). I have tried EDF but not convinced, DOH is better in a lot of cases.
I expect a lot of affinity and aggro deck, that's why i play 3 skyspawner (it also permit to play smasher or DOH one turn earlier)
The worship in SB are great!! I steal a lot of game with these (aggro deck don't side in enchantment hate vs us). The rest of the sb is classic.
Currently testing the following list for GP Lille (26-28/08). I have tried EDF but not convinced, DOH is better in a lot of cases.
I expect a lot of affinity and aggro deck, that's why i play 3 skyspawner (it also permit to play smasher or DOH one turn earlier)
The worship in SB are great!! I steal a lot of game with these (aggro deck don't side in enchantment hate vs us). The rest of the sb is classic.
Elder Deep Fiend is the real deal against those aggro decks you mentioned over Drowner of Hope because you can tap them down, untap and then play Reality Smasher. Typically that wins you the race flat out. I will still be running 3-4 DoH so it's not like you are losing anything by adding 2 Deep Fiend. Notice the main difference is I moved Spellskite to the SB. I really feel like it's not good enough against the majority of matchups so I might as well not have it. Adding 2 more good threats increases your percentages across the board (except Boggles).
I cut BoP for Boreal Druid, cut a windswept heath for a misty rainforest, and I cut a forest for an island (playing 2 Spawner 2 EDF). Have been very happy with the changes.
Boreal Druid being able to attack really matters, and lets you use the uncounterable part of Cavern on 3 without a painland.
I've liked the Boreal Druid as well for the possible ability to trade with something small, also the attack too. Basically the 1 power all the time is completely relevant! I like your other changes in order to accommodate the EDF. I'll have to look at my mana base.
I've liked the Boreal Druid as well for the possible ability to trade with something small, also the attack too. Basically the 1 power all the time is completely relevant! I like your other changes in order to accommodate the EDF. I'll have to look at my mana base.
I added in the basic Island over the 2nd forest as well and then swapped a Brushland for another Yavimaya coast
Yeah I think the point is to blink her repeatedly and I think it's too cheeky. Sigarda seems good but I can't think of any matchups where I am clamoring for her because I keep losing it. Elder Deep Fiend really is the real deal from my experiences so far. The biggest change is it forces my opponents to view Matter Reshaper as a threat. This means they bolt/path/terminate it more frequently out of fear of being wrecked on their upkeep.
I had Worldbreaker in the main still due to my control heavy meta and I essentially swapped out that and my flex slot (Which had Elspeth) for the 2 EDF. I liked having 2 because of those times when you can chain them together and close out the game. Currently I dropped to 2 Drowner of Hope to test out Eldritch Evolution but if I end up not liking that I might go to a 3/2 split of Drowner to EDF and add another Skyspawner to the list.
I need some help to know how to sideboarding vs jund. Do you keep spellskites? Are denial and negate good in?
I side in 1 worldbreaker, 3 explosives, 1 needle today in testings, but don't know if it's the good plan
What are your thoughts on it?
I love the card and I'm trying to find another land to take out to make room for two. Most likely it would be one of the two forests and just go down to the two basics. I'm not sure if I can do that with blood moon but the matchup vs that card is trash anyways.
I never side in explosives vs Jund. I don't know what you're bringing in EE there for? Our creatures outclass theirs easily - other than Goyf occasionally getting large. I would bring in any creatures resilient to removal such as Kitchen Finks, Thragtusk, and Worldbreaker. I'm never sure with Spellskites either, but I tend to side them out unless I really need the early blocker or they really shine in the matchup (i.e. vs Bogles or Infect). Game 1 I'll accept them as a semi dead card since they can protect my other creatures, but Game 2 and 3 I just want to push my main game plan as hard as I can.
vs Jund I go something like:
+2 Finks
+1 Swagtusk
+1 Worldbreaker
+2 Stubborn Denial
-2 Spellskite
-1 Bird
-1-2 Hierarch
-1-2 Displacer
Birds and Hierarchs against removal heavy decks I like to side out. Displacer is hard to get value from against these types of decks as well - the situations where you can keep Displacer + Drowner / TKS out are rare against them, and if you're at that point you're already at quite the advantage barring Damnation which wouldn't matter with Displacer out or not.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Although our creatures in theory outclass there's - they have tons of removal..
Another card I like to bring in against Jund is Rest In peace - hosing there goyfs, scooze's and sided Finks (which the always bring in) gives you the edge..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
This. Diluties gameplan, makes Goyf bigger and they can easily remove it too which means it's a T4 play. There are better things to do. Jund is an easy matchup, stock up on a high density of threats and keep getting 2 for 1's whenever possible. Elder Deep Fiend also seems amazing here because a timewalk against them will let you set up lethal more often than not. Typically I cut most if not all my dorks in this matchup. You want live draws. Hierarch is still good but BoP is definitely axed. I only have like 1-2 actual threats in the SB though so typically I bring in World Breaker and Swagtusk and take out BoP and 1 Noble.
Tuesday Tournament Report: 30 People
Round 1: Infect (2-1)[1-0]: Game 1 he had turn 3 (my turn 2) kill with Vines on blighted agent… gotta love infect. Game 2 I stuck a T2 Eldrazi Skyspawner to block his Inkmoth Nexus. He didn’t have enough to pump it so he passed his 2nd turn. I drop a Displacer with mana to blink the following turn. He animates and swings in. I block with Skyspawner, he pumps and then I blink my skyspawner to net me another Scion. I crash in for 3 with Displacer and know I have him beat. I Emerge Elder Deep Fiend sacing my Noble Heirarch to tap down his lands. He is unable to adequately respond. I untap and play a Reality Smasher and crash in for 17 and lethal (Skyspawner 2/1, 2 Scions 1/1’s, Displacer 3/3, EDF 5/6, Smasher 5/5). Game 3 he had to mulligan to 5. I got T2 Displacer and he dropped a T3 Geist. This made me very happy because with no infect creatures onboard and me at 18 still I dropped TKS instead of being forced to hold open mana. He had a Become immense, Groundswell and lands. I rip the next pump with a TKS the following turn and then crash in for lethal with a Smasher.
Round 2: Lantern Control (2-0)[2-0]: I won’t go through each game because they essentially came down to the same thing. We provide a very very fast clock and he couldn’t find a bridge fast enough. My opponent was very very adamant that this matchup was fine for him but we have what feels like a million outs to what they are doing and worse yet I was able to use Elder Deep Fiend to keep him tapped out turns 3 and 4 for game 2. Even if he had topdecked the bridge (which I saw he wasn’t going to do) he couldn’t cast it anyway. All this ignores that we can blink TKS to mill them to death as well as let them draw cards by blinking TKS and then crash in for lethal amounts of damage.
Round 3: Burn (1-2)[2-1]: Burn is an awful matchup that I have all but conceded. While I am testing out the new cards I even took my only answer (Thragtusk) out of my sideboard. The match still came down to a single draw. Game 1 he had what burn wants, the play, T1 Guide and then he Searing Blazed my Heirarch for the TFB. Game 2 I had a fast hand and a bit of luck. He swings in on turn 3 with Goblin Guide and 2 Swiftspears into my Matter Reshaper. I block the Guide, he bolts my face and then I path one of the Swiftspears. My Reshaper finds a 2nd reshaper. I am at 8. He is also pseudo out of gas. Now came the interesting part. I drop a Noble Heirarch and swing in for 4. He takes. Next turn he just passes. I then untap and come in for 4 again. He uses Deflecting Palm which I let resolve then Path my Reshaper and play a Displacer form hand. I am in a position to set up lethal if all goes well (I crash in for 3 putting him to 10 and then I EDF tap him out and then smasher for lethal). He has another Deflecting Palm so I EDF immediately to prevent it. The next turn I crash in with EDF putting him to 4 and play TKS to see what’s going on in his hand. He responds with a flurry of burn spells bringing me to 1 and I take the last card out of his hand. I pass and he flips the top card.. Atarka Command. Welp sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Round 4: Infect (2-0)[3-1]: You know for being a bad matchup, my deck loves to let me draw stupid nonsense against this deck. Elder Deep fiend put in some more serious work in this matchup allowing me to leave blink mana open to disrupt my opponent and then when I had enough for lethal I Emerge it in, tap all his things down and come in for the lethal 10. Game 2 he kept a T2 kill but I had the path for the T1 Glistener Elf and he never drew another infect creature. This allowed me to make quick work of him (T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 EDF, T5 Smasher).
Eldritch Evolution hasn’t really come up and impressed me just yet so I will be taking it out most likely. Elder Deep Fiend on the other hand has been caressing the dark recesses of my soul that make me want to do evil things to my opponent. Tap your lands down then crash in for 10 has come up more than I think it should and his ability to close out a game is absurd. I think I am going to leave myself at 2 Drowner of Hope since they are awkwardly costed at 6 and go up 2 more Skyspawners (to a total of 4). This will give me 12 3cmc creatures to help with 4 CMC EDF. I am also doing a slight modification to my landbase (-1 Badland +1 Yavamaya Coast) to account for the added UU symbols on deep fiend.
Have no idea why you would want to keep dorks in against Jund..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Certainly can. Here is what I am currently running:
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Thought-knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Eldrazi Skyspawner
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Elder Deep-Fiend
1x Birds of Paradise
Spells(10):
4x Path to Exile
4x Ancient Stirrings
2x Eldritch Evolution
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Windswept Heath
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Badlands
2x Yavimaya Coast
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Westvale Abbey
1x Temple Garden
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Breeding Pool
2x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Stubborn Denial
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Pithing Needle
2x Stony Silence
2x Spellskite
1x Worldbreaker
I haven't been overly impressed with Evolution yet so I am likely going to cut those for either +2 Drowner or +2 Skyspawner.
I expect a lot of affinity and aggro deck, that's why i play 3 skyspawner (it also permit to play smasher or DOH one turn earlier)
The worship in SB are great!! I steal a lot of game with these (aggro deck don't side in enchantment hate vs us). The rest of the sb is classic.
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Path to Exile
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Windswept Heath
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
1 World Breaker
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Worship
1 Negate
2 Stony Silence
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Engineered Explosives
Elder Deep Fiend is the real deal against those aggro decks you mentioned over Drowner of Hope because you can tap them down, untap and then play Reality Smasher. Typically that wins you the race flat out. I will still be running 3-4 DoH so it's not like you are losing anything by adding 2 Deep Fiend. Notice the main difference is I moved Spellskite to the SB. I really feel like it's not good enough against the majority of matchups so I might as well not have it. Adding 2 more good threats increases your percentages across the board (except Boggles).
Boreal Druid being able to attack really matters, and lets you use the uncounterable part of Cavern on 3 without a painland.
I added in the basic Island over the 2nd forest as well and then swapped a Brushland for another Yavimaya coast
Saw this on hareruya mtg today (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD03916W/) featuring Eldritch Evolution into Lavinia of the Tenth and a misers Sigarda, Host of Herons. I really like the idea of evolving a Skyspawner into Lavinia but having Displacer as the only other 3cmc drop, seems hard to get up to her, while keeping the displacer combo in tact. I'm thinking of running Matter Reshaper in place of Displacer. Or is the entire point of having Lavinia so you can blink her and detain everything turn-after-turn? I was more thinking this is an alternative to EDF, but I am probably wrong!
Yeah I think the point is to blink her repeatedly and I think it's too cheeky. Sigarda seems good but I can't think of any matchups where I am clamoring for her because I keep losing it. Elder Deep Fiend really is the real deal from my experiences so far. The biggest change is it forces my opponents to view Matter Reshaper as a threat. This means they bolt/path/terminate it more frequently out of fear of being wrecked on their upkeep.