I played the mirror 1x in San Antonio and I lost to Elspeth. It was G3 and I felt confident but Elspeth came down, made a bunch of dudes and mucked up the board. The added insurance of being able to -3 and clear my board put me into a rough spot. There are other options, Brain DeMars, played Bant, and he had 2 Gideon Jura in his SB. That deck went to top 8 I believe. I had also thought about Tamiyo, but why do we want this card? Why is it good? In which match ups do we board this in? Is the +1 relevant? (I can see it being good), is the -2 useful? Maybe. Tamiyo has shown up in a few lists off of mtggoldfish but hasn't established itself in the top placing versions of the deck.
One issue I have is the GWU casting cost. That's hard, the decks runs Cavern for fixing, it's why we can play C, W and U based Eldrazi, maybe I'm wrong. Have you tested her out?
@sys41o As for Zooicide, man I haven't seen that version of the deck yet, I've seen all flavors of Deathshadow, but the version you're referring is the aggro version right? It's been a while since I've seen that run.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
First of all, our initial hands are already awkward as hell. We're playing a four color deck here. A hand with Tamiyo as its main threat and no way to fix the mana is a mulligan, and we don't want any more of those.
I personally love Tamiyo as a card, but I don't think this is her deck. She's not sideboard material, since she's just a "win more" card in matchups we're already favored in. And she's lackluster MB compared to our other big dudes. If you're looking for a card against control/slow decks, I'd just run Elspeth or World Breaker.
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UWGBant EldraziUWG Decided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.
My personal thoughts are that for a non-Eldrazi Bomb sb card we dont really want to go to even 5 cmc (let alone 6 cmc) - problem is we dont really have any good 4 cmc bombs that we can cast reliably - 4 cmc Gideon is WW and Tamiyo is 3 colours. I've seen Ajani Steadfast in a recent list - not sure its an improvement..
What about Ajani, Mentor of Heroes ?
It doesn't exactly affect the board (if you don't have a creature to pump) but seems to fit the deck better than Tamiyo.
My preferred PW for the deck would probably be Nissa, Vital Force though as all three abilities can be useful and she's has a high enough loyalty.
That's why I'm a fan of World Breaker - great against Blood Moon and Ensnaring bridge decks, hard to kill and can be accelerated through Temple. I can also see some argument for bringing in Thragtusk since it's great with Displacer.
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UWGBant EldraziUWG Decided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion is a great card, but outside of the mirror 6 mana seems like a ton. What I'm looking for in the slot is something for either the mirror or for the grindy match ups. A lot of the sideboard is dedicated hate for one thing or another, but there isn't really anything exciting for the fair match ups. If you ever cast Elspeth, you should win the game, but especially post board trying to get to non-eldrazi temple 6 mana through fulminator/counterspells seems rough.
World Breaker seems way to slow for the effect you get. Seven mana is not trivial even with temples, as shown by how often drowner rots in my hand. The effect is ok, but it seems too late by the time it would be relevant. Against blood moon, it already assumes you aren't green locked, and then again you have to get to 7 the hard way. Against bridge I'd rather have a cheaper effect like natural state. The main bridge deck outside of fringe is lantern, and if you are waiting to get to 7 mana against lantern, you're asking to be locked or facing against a backup bridge. Main positive of World Breaker is that it is findable with stirrings, and there might be games you win through recurring it.
Where I see Tamiyo, Field Researcher fitting in: card advantage against the grindy decks, especially with skyspawner. The minus is also nice to either force damage through or lock down threats, especially in a Death's Shadow meta. The main downside obviously being the mana cost, as well as being mediocre while behind or on a creatureless board.
These thoughts are mainly in theory though, as I haven't played the deck a ton yet, and especially haven't tried world breaker. It's hard to get a feel for one of sb slots without playing said specific matchups a ton. I guess the other question is whether I even need something extra in the slot, or if just RIP is enough against all the death's shadow/grixis popping up. Bant seems favored in those matchups, so am I just supposed to be letting it ride?
Thoughts on channeler initiate? Dork that still is a threat. I could see myself wanting to play this on turn 2 over reshaper or displacer.
Might be worth replacing 1-of birds. Dissynergy with EE though.
Side note, World breaker is way too slow. It has applicability in lantern and the mirror but that's about it. Maybe delver. It's not fast enough for GBx (for that matter, neither is elspeth). Tamiyo's color requirements are too high. I like Thragtusk for any matchup going longer than 5-6 turns.
It's great as dorks 5-6 in fair matchups - in 16 games against Jund and Grixis I only lost once with hands with initiate. Small sample size skews this data, but heuristically based on how the games turned out it's not unreasonable. A 2/3 or 3/4 can be relevant in blocking or attacking through confidant or snapcaster in long games or providing another threat to kill liliana with.
However, it's just too slow in fast matchups. I also played 8 games against burn, and playing a 2 mana 0/1 dork is too large of a tempo loss, and it feels bad in those games.
I think Celestial Purge is much better than Natural State right now for dealing with Blood Moon. You should be playing 3 Stonies for Affinity, Lantern, and Tron anyways, and Purge also hits Death's Shadows and Liliana which are super relevant right now.
Celestial purge is worth testing I think. When to bring it in though, among the following?
Blood moon decks? probably yes
Shadow decks (but even then it doesnt kill goyf)? maybe, yes if they run lotv
Grixis? maybe, doesn't hit delvers
Jund? questionable, a little narrow against lili. confidant is not that threatening a target
Abzan? yes, because it then hits flayer and rhino too
Burn? questionable
I think Celestial Purge is much better than Natural State right now for dealing with Blood Moon. You should be playing 3 Stonies for Affinity, Lantern, and Tron anyways, and Purge also hits Death's Shadows and Liliana which are super relevant right now.
I haven't played that much Bant Eldrazi (2x/week for a couple months) but personally I would not bring in Stony against Lantern. Their only real wincon is Ensnaring Bridge--without it their draw-control-and-mill plan is exceedingly unlikely to get there fast enough against a deck running ramp into big threats like this one does. So I find myself looking for the out available to us in Engineered Explosives as well as in the green artifact/enchantment hate spells. This way we have five unconditional outs to Bridge, and we avoid the Stony/EE nonbo. I definitely love Stony against Affinity and Gx Tron though.
On another note, I have been playing a 1/1 split between Naturalize and Natural State--Naturalize gets Chalice on 1, and Leyline of Sanctity out of Ad Nauseam, two game states that can be very tough to beat otherwise.
Wats the correct sideboarding against Eldratron? I sided out 2x EE, 2x RS, 1x Drowner for 2x S Denial, 1x Negate, 1x Dismember, 1x Worship. Endbringer's a real pain in the butt. Keeps killing my hierarchs and drawing cards.
I've been increasingly impressed with Thragtusk in the side. It's a jack-of-all-trades AND can sometimes be a game-winning bomb.
1) Against fair decks, it's solid value. The 5-life swing is often enough for us to pivot from having to defend to being able to attack. It's almost always a 2-for-1 (vs matter reshaper doesn't always flip into a threat). It's also much easier to cast than 6cmc Elspeth and can even be uncounterable.
2) It's not great against burn since it's so slow, but it's probably better than drowner and ee.
3) It's a win con in worship-based matchups (e.g. Merfolk, Elves). When paired with displacer it prevents vapor snag / shaman as lifeloss outs AND develops our board for an eventual winning swing.
4) It's reasonable in the mirror. Not as great as Elspeth, but it helps us stabilize against smasher.
I'm moving it up to a 2-of... we'll see how that goes.
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One issue I have is the GWU casting cost. That's hard, the decks runs Cavern for fixing, it's why we can play C, W and U based Eldrazi, maybe I'm wrong. Have you tested her out?
@sys41o As for Zooicide, man I haven't seen that version of the deck yet, I've seen all flavors of Deathshadow, but the version you're referring is the aggro version right? It's been a while since I've seen that run.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
First of all, our initial hands are already awkward as hell. We're playing a four color deck here. A hand with Tamiyo as its main threat and no way to fix the mana is a mulligan, and we don't want any more of those.
I personally love Tamiyo as a card, but I don't think this is her deck. She's not sideboard material, since she's just a "win more" card in matchups we're already favored in. And she's lackluster MB compared to our other big dudes. If you're looking for a card against control/slow decks, I'd just run Elspeth or World Breaker.
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
It doesn't exactly affect the board (if you don't have a creature to pump) but seems to fit the deck better than Tamiyo.
My preferred PW for the deck would probably be Nissa, Vital Force though as all three abilities can be useful and she's has a high enough loyalty.
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
World Breaker seems way to slow for the effect you get. Seven mana is not trivial even with temples, as shown by how often drowner rots in my hand. The effect is ok, but it seems too late by the time it would be relevant. Against blood moon, it already assumes you aren't green locked, and then again you have to get to 7 the hard way. Against bridge I'd rather have a cheaper effect like natural state. The main bridge deck outside of fringe is lantern, and if you are waiting to get to 7 mana against lantern, you're asking to be locked or facing against a backup bridge. Main positive of World Breaker is that it is findable with stirrings, and there might be games you win through recurring it.
Where I see Tamiyo, Field Researcher fitting in: card advantage against the grindy decks, especially with skyspawner. The minus is also nice to either force damage through or lock down threats, especially in a Death's Shadow meta. The main downside obviously being the mana cost, as well as being mediocre while behind or on a creatureless board.
These thoughts are mainly in theory though, as I haven't played the deck a ton yet, and especially haven't tried world breaker. It's hard to get a feel for one of sb slots without playing said specific matchups a ton. I guess the other question is whether I even need something extra in the slot, or if just RIP is enough against all the death's shadow/grixis popping up. Bant seems favored in those matchups, so am I just supposed to be letting it ride?
Current list for reference:
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
Spells (11)
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Windswept Heath
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Brushland
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Natural State
2 Negate
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Worship
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
Might be worth replacing 1-of birds. Dissynergy with EE though.
Side note, World breaker is way too slow. It has applicability in lantern and the mirror but that's about it. Maybe delver. It's not fast enough for GBx (for that matter, neither is elspeth). Tamiyo's color requirements are too high. I like Thragtusk for any matchup going longer than 5-6 turns.
It's great as dorks 5-6 in fair matchups - in 16 games against Jund and Grixis I only lost once with hands with initiate. Small sample size skews this data, but heuristically based on how the games turned out it's not unreasonable. A 2/3 or 3/4 can be relevant in blocking or attacking through confidant or snapcaster in long games or providing another threat to kill liliana with.
However, it's just too slow in fast matchups. I also played 8 games against burn, and playing a 2 mana 0/1 dork is too large of a tempo loss, and it feels bad in those games.
Blood moon decks? probably yes
Shadow decks (but even then it doesnt kill goyf)? maybe, yes if they run lotv
Grixis? maybe, doesn't hit delvers
Jund? questionable, a little narrow against lili. confidant is not that threatening a target
Abzan? yes, because it then hits flayer and rhino too
Burn? questionable
On another note, I have been playing a 1/1 split between Naturalize and Natural State--Naturalize gets Chalice on 1, and Leyline of Sanctity out of Ad Nauseam, two game states that can be very tough to beat otherwise.
1) Against fair decks, it's solid value. The 5-life swing is often enough for us to pivot from having to defend to being able to attack. It's almost always a 2-for-1 (vs matter reshaper doesn't always flip into a threat). It's also much easier to cast than 6cmc Elspeth and can even be uncounterable.
2) It's not great against burn since it's so slow, but it's probably better than drowner and ee.
3) It's a win con in worship-based matchups (e.g. Merfolk, Elves). When paired with displacer it prevents vapor snag / shaman as lifeloss outs AND develops our board for an eventual winning swing.
4) It's reasonable in the mirror. Not as great as Elspeth, but it helps us stabilize against smasher.
I'm moving it up to a 2-of... we'll see how that goes.