Quick question for the community. What does everyone think of Duskwatch Recruiter and Endbringer? I've been testing 2 and 1 respectively and they are pretty good in some of the grindier matchups. I also wanted to know why don't more people use a one of Moorland Haunt or Gavony Township or Sea Gate Wreckage? I mostly see ghost quarter lately.
Gavony is sort of a "win more" type of card. Rarely is our issue that our creatures aren't big enough.
Some have tried Sea Gate. Probably a meta call.
But given the bannings and printing of Fatal Push, odds are that Tron and Valakut decks will increase in prevalence. So Ghost Quarter seems best if you're running a utility land.
Hi all, I am looking for some imput on my list for the upcoming GP in Vancouver. Furthermore, I plan on getting a match-up rating/sideboard guide going. Any Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.
Edit: I am running a more traditional list (24 lands,4 mana dorks, 3/3 skyspawner-reshaper split) and I find that I like it better than the mana rock version. In the sideboard I went up two 2 rip and down to one cage. Rip helps a lot against grixis and any Goyf deck.
This is the build I am currently using and I will explain my choices in the following 4 areas: mana base, creature selection, spell selection, and sideboard.
Mana Base:
Obviously, my mana base build is with blood moon in mind. Both waste and an island are included in this build in order to produce each type of mana this deck requires. Some of the cons are that it does not have as many green sources. However, this makes path a nice pseudo fetch and provides while always providing value if your creatures get pathed. In addition, I run the mana rock. These seem controversial on the board. It is true that they can and are eaten by EE on 2 and are not your best top decks; on the other hand, when playing I've found the loss of a rock to EE to be not that bad. The mana rock could have always been another land so top decking it is equivalent to top decking a land. Furthermore, they have helped provide consistency in the deck helping churn out t3 thought knots or smashers.With this build I can GQ my own lands in response to Blood Moon or path my own creature. I still debate putting in an Island over GQ. Unfortunately, there is not a reliably way to fetch an island.
Creatures:
My list is fairly standard. I do a 3/23/3 split for reshaper/skyspawner. Reshaper is great against grixis and jund while skyspanwer is helpful against infect and affinity. Spawner can help ramp & is a great answer to blood moon but I still run more reshaper over spawner. My mana base is built for blood moon and the mana rocks help with ramping as well. I've stuck with 3 drowner of hope. 4 has always felt like too many. Both skite and mimic have made appearances but I think neither will be great for this meta. I've yet to try endbringer (which sounds interesting), E-wit (mana base is strained) or duskwatch recruiter (I don't find this as appealing).
Spells:
My build is fairly standards,4/4 Path and strings, while running 2 EE's in the main. Two main Ee's have worked out well and I've thought of going three. Recently, I've added 1 Stubborn Denial to the main. It has worked out really well for me. It helps with g1 tron and valakut by giving us time, counter a t1 vial and protected many of my creatures.
Sideboard:
One of the hardest things about building a sideboard is ensuring that one has enough hate for popular decks while shoring the bad match ups. With the recent ban's my sideboard has changed somewhat but not too drastically. I going two cages and one rip because I think that decks which have been on the outs (coco, nahiri, melira combo) will make a bit of a come back with less dredge hate. Furthermore, we know valakut and tron will be more prevalent so addition of disdainful stroke seems like a good call.
So now that I've discussed my deck choices I'd like to review MU's and sideboard planning. I'm not 100% on my sideboarding and any advice is appreciated. The match ups a broken down to Good, even and bad match ups.
Jund/Junk (Good Match up)
Our creatures tend to out value/preform theirs and we also top deck better than they do. They can win by ripping our hand apart and having a huge goyf.
In: EE, Rip, Disdainful Stroke and 2x Stubborn Denial
Out: 4 Nobles and 1 path
The Nobles will eat a bolt/other removal so for this grindy game we take them out. Only Play EE when ya need to otherwise it can be abrupt decay'd early. Rip will turn goyfs into 0/1's and stop lingering souls, and also stops kalitas from producing tokens. Disdainful Stroke is questionable over path.
Eldrazi (Even Match Up)
Who is on the play seems to determine this match up. This is also a match up were displacer shines and can help lock down a board. If a worship resolves it is almost impossible to win against.
Reshapers have the least impact on the board in this matchup so they come out. We are, however, leaving in the two EE's. They can take out tokens which can be a deciding factor in this MU. Likewise combat tricks with blessed alliance can also swing momentum. Untap and sack a great choices on blessed.
Burn (Good Match Up)
Burn is known for being fast but we're almost as fast and bigger so we tend to win this match up.
In: 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x worship 2x Stubborn Denial, EE
Out: 3x Drowner of Hope, 4x displacer
I take out drowner cause he is too slow and displacer because it is too mana intensive while dying to bolt. EE does a lot of work, especially if they are on the kitty build, while blessed alliance is the best card in this MU. Worship and Stubborn are also great in this match up
Affinity (Even Match Up)
Of the times I think of playing 4 chalice of the voids it is usually due to this match. None the less, I think we still have a good post sideboard which does not necessitate the chalices.
Stony kills in this match up. EE is also great on just about any number. Blessed alliance can lead to a blow out if they ravager sack to an inkmoth. Also if they attack with multiple creatures one can block and then cast blessed alliance after damage to have them sack the creature which wasn't blocked/killed. I think smashers do not lock the board down like drowner so they come out and reshaper will not be impactful enough to stay in.
Mefolk (Bad Match Up)
So these guys eat our lunch. EE (on 2) is an all-star here. We try to save path's for Master of Waves. Worship, if it lands, is another great card. With this mu we want to mull aggressively to find EE, Strings, or worship.
Infect can be fast but now with git probe ban they are more vulnerable to removal. If the game goes long and we resolve a displacer we are generally will win. EE is great for getting around their protection spells. This is one of the few match ups where I wish I had skite. Skyspawner is great for blocking inkmoth. We take out Reality Smasher due to lack of board interactions and one reshaper as well.
Tron (Bad Match Up)
I've personally done well against tron; however, I hear that it can be a problem match up for us as well. They go over the top of us so we need to be faster and stop them from landing as many of their bombs as possible. EE does nothing in this mu so we take it out and drowner is too slow.
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 3x Drowner and 2x EE
Grixis Delver/Control (Good Match Up) I've heard we're favored in this MU but I've felt the opposite. For Delver we leave in EE for control we take out the EE. This is one of the matchups where I do not like Skyspawner.Having got to play against this deck more I feel better about our match up. Cryptic can be frustrating to play against and visions can help them pull a head. With that said, we can go faster than them and out value them. Reality Smasher is an all star in this match up.
Skyspawner is great against delvers while RIP forces them to hard cast their big threats. By that time we either have answers or bigger threats of our own.
Cavern of Souls does work in this MU. We must be careful not to overextend however due to supreme verdict. We have a clock that is faster than they can answer and our creatures beat their removal.
That is all I have for now. I plan on adding a few decks (boggles, Valakut, ect) to the sideboard guide at a later time. I hope this helps some people & I look forward to some feedback so I can improve my build/play. Thanks all!
New Sideboard Guide:
Boggles (Good Match Up)
EE on 1 wins us this match up. We can also use scions to block and then sac to prevent them from gaining life. Eventually we can swarm with scions for a win. Landing a blessed alliance or worship can be game ending for them.
Out: 4x path to exile, 1 Matter Reshaper
In 1 EE, 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x Worship
Lantern Control (Bad Match Up)
If they land a bridge with a pithing needle on EE that's game for us unless we can get in the noble beats or mill them with displacer/thought-knot. We bring in stony to stop them from milling us while allowing us to mill them with thought-knot
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State, 1 EE
Out: 4x Path, 3x Drowner of Hope
Scapeshift, BTL Scapeshift, Through the Breach (Bad Match Up)
These decks tend to go over the top of us while being able to stall for answers (E.g. cast cryptic, tap draw, block with STEve sac for a land, ect). Our best bet is to go fast, have counters ready, and hopefully stang their key cards with a counter or a thought-knot. Always make scapeshift players show you the damage. They may have mountains in hand which will stop them from having lethal when they go off. I am up in the air if worship should be added to this match up. On one hand it requires that they damage our creatures and not us potentially saving us; on the other hand, it does nothing if we do not have creatures out and is a bad top deck.
In 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Worship, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 2x EE, 3x Path to exile
Blue Moon (Bad Match Up)
Decks that mainboard Blood Moon can wreck us when they catch us off guard with it. Luckily, our deck is more resilient to Blood Moon than people think. With this match up we might have to do some funky things (Path our own creature) but we will eventually grind them out.
In: 1x EE, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State
Out: 3x Matter Reshaper, 1x Drowner of Hope, 1x Reality Smasher
As you will see, there's a page for entering data and two pages for parsing that data. I've already entered some data (I haven't been religious about entering—I'll try to improve!).
I'm hoping that over time we can use this resource to learn more about matchups we're seeing, how to sideboard, and the like.
If you have suggestions or notice any bugs, please let me know. And feel free to add this to the primer.
Our creatures tend to out value/preform theirs and we also top deck better than they do. They can win by ripping our hand apart and having a huge goyf.
In: EE, Rip, Disdainful Stroke and 2x Stubborn Denial
Out: 4 Nobles and 1 path
The Nobles will eat a bolt/other removal so for this grindy game we take them out. Only Play EE when ya need to otherwise it can be abrupt decay'd early. Rip will turn goyfs into 0/1's and stop lingering souls, and also stops kalitas from producing tokens. Disdainful Stroke is questionable over path.
Why side in disdainful stroke? You're the beatdown in this matchup and it doesn't make sense to put in such a reactive and narrow spell. Same with stubborn denial. You have to keep in path against Jund to answer a T2 goyf.
Eldrazi (Even Match Up)
Who is on the play seems to determine this match up. This is also a match up were displacer shines and can help lock down a board. If a worship resolves it is almost impossible to win against.
Reshapers have the least impact on the board in this matchup so they come out. We are, however, leaving in the two EE's. They can take out tokens which can be a deciding factor in this MU. Likewise combat tricks with blessed alliance can also swing momentum. Untap and sack a great choices on blessed.
Burn (Good Match Up)
Burn is known for being fast but we're almost as fast and bigger so we tend to win this match up.
In: 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x worship 2x Stubborn Denial, EE
Out: 3x Drowner of Hope, 4x displacer
I take out drowner cause he is too slow and displacer because it is too mana intensive while dying to bolt. EE does a lot of work, especially if they are on the kitty build, while blessed alliance is the best card in this MU. Worship and Stubborn are also great in this match up
In my testing, displacer is better than EE just to have something on the ground and to up your clock. It may be worth considering even taking EE out esp if they are not running nacatls.
Affinity (Even Match Up)
Of the times I think of playing 4 chalice of the voids it is usually due to this match. None the less, I think we still have a good post sideboard which does not necessitate the chalices.
Stony kills in this match up. EE is also great on just about any number. Blessed alliance can lead to a blow out if they ravager sack to an inkmoth. Also if they attack with multiple creatures one can block and then cast blessed alliance after damage to have them sack the creature which wasn't blocked/killed. I think smashers do not lock the board down like drowner so they come out and reshaper will not be impactful enough to stay in.
In my experience, affinity is an unfavored matchup.
Mefolk (Bad Match Up)
So these guys eat our lunch. EE (on 2) is an all-star here. We try to save path's for Master of Waves. Worship, if it lands, is another great card. With this mu we want to mull aggressively to find EE, Strings, or worship.
I would not side out Reshaper or Smasher. If we can keep them off lords, Reshaper helps stabilize early. Smasher is also one of our wincons in the rare scenario that we can out-tempo them. I usually take out 1-2 drowners, but also more importantly our blue shocklands since they are completely dead (we never want to play them in this matchup since it gives them inevitability).
Infect (Even Match Up)
Infect can be fast but now with git probe ban they are more vulnerable to removal. If the game goes long and we resolve a displacer we are generally will win. EE is great for getting around their protection spells. This is one of the few match ups where I wish I had skite. Skyspawner is great for blocking inkmoth. We take out Reality Smasher due to lack of board interactions and one reshaper as well.
Every time I have seen someone play stubborn denial against infect I have been unimpressed. I never side in stubborn and I usually dominate infect.
Tron (Bad Match Up)
I've personally done well against tron; however, I hear that it can be a problem match up for us as well. They go over the top of us so we need to be faster and stop them from landing as many of their bombs as possible. EE does nothing in this mu so we take it out and drowner is too slow.
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 3x Drowner and 2x EE
Grixis Delver/Control (Even Match Up)
I've heard we're favored in this MU but I've felt the opposite. For Delver we leave in EE for control we take out the EE. This is one of the matchups where I do not like Skyspawner
Don't side in any countermagic vs Delver. We can't afford to be that reactive. It might be worth keeping in against Control but even then I'm doubtful. Also, skyspawner is great against Delver. Many inexperienced Delver players end up trading their Delver for the Skyspawner which actually gives us an advantage. You also shouldn't cut displacer; yes it dies to bolt but activations on a drowner or even a skyspawner gives us the ability to compete with elemental tokens or slows down their 1-for-1 removals. I usually cut 2 dorks vs Delver, and against control I would probably cut all of them.
Nahiri Control (Good Match Up)
Cavern of Souls does work in this MU. We must be careful not to overextend however due to supreme verdict. We have a clock that is faster than they can answer and our creatures beat their removal.
You might want to correct that - Dredge is a pretty unfavored matchup. You also definitely want to side in stubborn, since the only way they can get around our massive blockers is a conflagrate. Smasher is also worth keeping in because it's very hard for us to actually stabilize with drowner/displacer. It is possible, but they have to not have conflagrate, and they also usually go wide enough that the combo is too slow. It's actually right to side out all 4 TKS here because it is by far our worst card. The hand disruption is often irrelevant and it also gives them a draw when it inevitably gets double blocked or chumped and conflagrated.
That is all I have for now. I plan on adding a few decks (boggles, Valakut, ect) to the sideboard guide at a later time. I hope this helps some people & I look forward to some feedback so I can improve my build/play. Thanks all!
It's not all too popular yet, so maybe you have not considered it, but what is your game plan against Lantern Control?
Drop EE and wipe their board
This answer is way too simple. A good lantern player will name EE with their needle, especially if you don't have a displacer already.
Our best alternative wincon is to actually mill them ourselves. If we don't kill them early, which we usually can't if they have a bridge, then we want to set up a displacer/TKS lock, ideally with a spellskite or other displacers/TKS to buffer against Fatal push. If that doesn't work, Hierarch beats also work. World breaker is also pretty good against them since it can't be milled unless they surgical extraction it.
Heroic Intervention is the only card i am trying for now but off course this is a forum speak up
and lantern control its easy because we have main board and side board against them just have to pray they dont mill those cards or needle or surgical it
World Breaker is also very good for this matchup if you play it right. They usually let you have lands in spades, so you can afford to sac one and recur the Breaker, then Exile their Bridge and swing.
It's not all too popular yet, so maybe you have not considered it, but what is your game plan against Lantern Control?
Drop EE and wipe their board
Its slightly more difficult then that - they have pithing needle (and ways to tutor for it), hand disruption etc. I've found that agood lantern pilot is favoured over us - however if you can get in early damage before bridge comes down and have nobles that can attack under the bridge then you can get there.
Obv bring in anything that can destroy artifacts - try getting a Displacer/TKS lock on them to get them to discard anything that will stop your own game plan - perhaps even RIP to shut off Academy Ruins..
Hey peoples, I'm almost done acquiring the MD 60 (now 4 cards away) and I'll be finishing that part up this week. As for the SB, what are the single most important cards for this deck? I see some builds MD Engineered Explosives and some just run them in the SB? Is the single birds obsolete now? On World Breaker (I love this card), it doesn't show up often in SB, but I've seen it do tons of work, when is it best to include this in the SB?
Thanks for the input.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Quick question for the community. What does everyone think of Duskwatch Recruiter and Endbringer? I've been testing 2 and 1 respectively and they are pretty good in some of the grindier matchups. I also wanted to know why don't more people use a one of Moorland Haunt or Gavony Township or Sea Gate Wreckage? I mostly see ghost quarter lately.
havent tested Duskwatch Recruiter to a extent but it isnt that good because Bant usually skips turn 2 also its good against grindy matchups which bant is usually favored in anyway.
End bringer is semi decent again its good against the matchups we are already good against jund etc.. and id rather just play drowner for the same cost.
Ghost quarter is good against tron our worst match up which will make a rise again when infect slows down a bit
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Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
Quick question for the community. What does everyone think of Duskwatch Recruiter and Endbringer? I've been testing 2 and 1 respectively and they are pretty good in some of the grindier matchups. I also wanted to know why don't more people use a one of Moorland Haunt or Gavony Township or Sea Gate Wreckage? I mostly see ghost quarter lately.
havent tested Duskwatch Recruiter to a extent but it isnt that good because Bant usually skips turn 2 also its good against grindy matchups which bant is usually favored in anyway.
End bringer is semi decent again its good against the matchups we are already good against jund etc.. and id rather just play drowner for the same cost.
I was thinking that it would provide us with a good and alternative way to gain card advantage and Endbringer would be pretty good vs those Grindy matchups as well.
With all the hype surrounding Fatal Push I think I'm going to dust off Bant Eldrazi instead of playing Jund. Or do you guys think Tron and Scape/Titanshift is going to be running rampant?
With all the hype surrounding Fatal Push I think I'm going to dust off Bant Eldrazi instead of playing Jund. Or do you guys think Tron and Scape/Titanshift is going to be running rampant?
I expect both to increase in metagame share since things will be slowing down a bit.
Hi all, I am looking for some imput on my list for the upcoming GP in Vancouver. Furthermore, I plan on getting a match-up rating/sideboard guide going. Any Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.
Edit: I am running a more traditional list (24 lands,4 mana dorks, 3/3 skyspawner-reshaper split) and I find that I like it better than the mana rock version. In the sideboard I went up two 2 rip and down to one cage. Rip helps a lot against grixis and any Goyf deck.
This is the build I am currently using and I will explain my choices in the following 4 areas: mana base, creature selection, spell selection, and sideboard.
Mana Base:
Obviously, my mana base build is with blood moon in mind. Both waste and an island are included in this build in order to produce each type of mana this deck requires. Some of the cons are that it does not have as many green sources. However, this makes path a nice pseudo fetch and provides while always providing value if your creatures get pathed. In addition, I run the mana rock. These seem controversial on the board. It is true that they can and are eaten by EE on 2 and are not your best top decks; on the other hand, when playing I've found the loss of a rock to EE to be not that bad. The mana rock could have always been another land so top decking it is equivalent to top decking a land. Furthermore, they have helped provide consistency in the deck helping churn out t3 thought knots or smashers.With this build I can GQ my own lands in response to Blood Moon or path my own creature. I still debate putting in an Island over GQ. Unfortunately, there is not a reliably way to fetch an island.
Creatures:
My list is fairly standard. I do a 3/23/3 split for reshaper/skyspawner. Reshaper is great against grixis and jund while skyspanwer is helpful against infect and affinity. Spawner can help ramp & is a great answer to blood moon but I still run more reshaper over spawner. My mana base is built for blood moon and the mana rocks help with ramping as well. I've stuck with 3 drowner of hope. 4 has always felt like too many. Both skite and mimic have made appearances but I think neither will be great for this meta. I've yet to try endbringer (which sounds interesting), E-wit (mana base is strained) or duskwatch recruiter (I don't find this as appealing).
Spells:
My build is fairly standards,4/4 Path and strings, while running 2 EE's in the main. Two main Ee's have worked out well and I've thought of going three. Recently, I've added 1 Stubborn Denial to the main. It has worked out really well for me. It helps with g1 tron and valakut by giving us time, counter a t1 vial and protected many of my creatures.
Sideboard:
One of the hardest things about building a sideboard is ensuring that one has enough hate for popular decks while shoring the bad match ups. With the recent ban's my sideboard has changed somewhat but not too drastically. I going two cages and one rip because I think that decks which have been on the outs (coco, nahiri, melira combo) will make a bit of a come back with less dredge hate. Furthermore, we know valakut and tron will be more prevalent so addition of disdainful stroke seems like a good call.
So now that I've discussed my deck choices I'd like to review MU's and sideboard planning. I'm not 100% on my sideboarding and any advice is appreciated. The match ups a broken down to Good, even and bad match ups.
Jund/Junk (Good Match up)
Our creatures tend to out value/preform theirs and we also top deck better than they do. They can win by ripping our hand apart and having a huge goyf.
In: EE, Rip, Disdainful Stroke and 2x Stubborn Denial
Out: 4 Nobles and 1 path
The Nobles will eat a bolt/other removal so for this grindy game we take them out. Only Play EE when ya need to otherwise it can be abrupt decay'd early. Rip will turn goyfs into 0/1's and stop lingering souls, and also stops kalitas from producing tokens. Disdainful Stroke is questionable over path.
Eldrazi (Even Match Up)
Who is on the play seems to determine this match up. This is also a match up were displacer shines and can help lock down a board. If a worship resolves it is almost impossible to win against.
Reshapers have the least impact on the board in this matchup so they come out. We are, however, leaving in the two EE's. They can take out tokens which can be a deciding factor in this MU. Likewise combat tricks with blessed alliance can also swing momentum. Untap and sack a great choices on blessed.
Burn (Good Match Up)
Burn is known for being fast but we're almost as fast and bigger so we tend to win this match up.
In: 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x worship 2x Stubborn Denial, EE
Out: 3x Drowner of Hope, 4x displacer
I take out drowner cause he is too slow and displacer because it is too mana intensive while dying to bolt. EE does a lot of work, especially if they are on the kitty build, while blessed alliance is the best card in this MU. Worship and Stubborn are also great in this match up
Affinity (Even Match Up)
Of the times I think of playing 4 chalice of the voids it is usually due to this match. None the less, I think we still have a good post sideboard which does not necessitate the chalices.
Stony kills in this match up. EE is also great on just about any number. Blessed alliance can lead to a blow out if they ravager sack to an inkmoth. Also if they attack with multiple creatures one can block and then cast blessed alliance after damage to have them sack the creature which wasn't blocked/killed. I think smashers do not lock the board down like drowner so they come out and reshaper will not be impactful enough to stay in.
Mefolk (Bad Match Up)
So these guys eat our lunch. EE (on 2) is an all-star here. We try to save path's for Master of Waves. Worship, if it lands, is another great card. With this mu we want to mull aggressively to find EE, Strings, or worship.
Infect can be fast but now with git probe ban they are more vulnerable to removal. If the game goes long and we resolve a displacer we are generally will win. EE is great for getting around their protection spells. This is one of the few match ups where I wish I had skite. Skyspawner is great for blocking inkmoth. We take out Reality Smasher due to lack of board interactions and one reshaper as well.
Tron (Bad Match Up)
I've personally done well against tron; however, I hear that it can be a problem match up for us as well. They go over the top of us so we need to be faster and stop them from landing as many of their bombs as possible. EE does nothing in this mu so we take it out and drowner is too slow.
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 3x Drowner and 2x EE
Grixis Delver/Control (Good Match Up) I've heard we're favored in this MU but I've felt the opposite. For Delver we leave in EE for control we take out the EE. This is one of the matchups where I do not like Skyspawner.Having got to play against this deck more I feel better about our match up. Cryptic can be frustrating to play against and visions can help them pull a head. With that said, we can go faster than them and out value them. Reality Smasher is an all star in this match up.
Skyspawner is great against delvers while RIP forces them to hard cast their big threats. By that time we either have answers or bigger threats of our own.
Cavern of Souls does work in this MU. We must be careful not to overextend however due to supreme verdict. We have a clock that is faster than they can answer and our creatures beat their removal.
That is all I have for now. I plan on adding a few decks (boggles, Valakut, ect) to the sideboard guide at a later time. I hope this helps some people & I look forward to some feedback so I can improve my build/play. Thanks all!
New Sideboard Guide:
Boggles (Good Match Up)
EE on 1 wins us this match up. We can also use scions to block and then sac to prevent them from gaining life. Eventually we can swarm with scions for a win. Landing a blessed alliance or worship can be game ending for them.
Out: 4x path to exile, 1 Matter Reshaper
In 1 EE, 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x Worship
Lantern Control (Bad Match Up)
If they land a bridge with a pithing needle on EE that's game for us unless we can get in the noble beats or mill them with displacer/thought-knot. We bring in stony to stop them from milling us while allowing us to mill them with thought-knot
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State, 1 EE
Out: 4x Path, 3x Drowner of Hope
Scapeshift, BTL Scapeshift, Through the Breach (Bad Match Up)
These decks tend to go over the top of us while being able to stall for answers (E.g. cast cryptic, tap draw, block with STEve sac for a land, ect). Our best bet is to go fast, have counters ready, and hopefully stang their key cards with a counter or a thought-knot. Always make scapeshift players show you the damage. They may have mountains in hand which will stop them from having lethal when they go off. I am up in the air if worship should be added to this match up. On one hand it requires that they damage our creatures and not us potentially saving us; on the other hand, it does nothing if we do not have creatures out and is a bad top deck.
In 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Worship, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 2x EE, 3x Path to exile
Blue Moon (Bad Match Up)
Decks that mainboard Blood Moon can wreck us when they catch us off guard with it. Luckily, our deck is more resilient to Blood Moon than people think. With this match up we might have to do some funky things (Path our own creature) but we will eventually grind them out.
In: 1x EE, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State
Out: 3x Matter Reshaper, 1x Drowner of Hope, 1x Reality Smasher
Hiya all! I've rearranged my deck a bit. The mana base now runs 24 lands with no rocks. I played it against blue moon and was very successful with it so I think I am sticking with this build. Really Like having more threats i there as well. Furthermore, I've added a few more match ups to the sideboard guide. Thank you for the feed back.
EE on 1 wins us this match up. We can also use scions to block and then sac to prevent them from gaining life. Eventually we can swarm with scions for a win. Landing a blessed alliance or worship can be game ending for them.
Out: 4x path to exile, 1 Matter Reshaper
In 1 EE, 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x Worship
Your guide is well thought out and mostly correct, but I have a nitpick here. Here's what Bogles sides against you.
In: 2 Gaddock Teeg, 4 Leyline of Sanctity, 0-2 Nature's Claim
Out: 1 Spirit Link, 1 Unflinching Courage, 2 Kor Spiritdancer, 0-2 Spirit Mantle, 0-2 other Auras
If you don't have Path to Exile, you're going to be very sad about a turn 2 Gaddock Teeg, especially on the play. Leyline of Sanctity makes Thought-Knot Seer NOT a broken card and makes Blessed Alliance a "gain 4" or "untap 2 creatures."
In my experience, the matchup is pretty close to even, but I would give a slight edge to Bogles. There is no doubt that main board Engineered Explosives could catch a player off guard. But without it, a Bogle basically gets much larger than any 1 Eldrazi and heaven forbid, it has Daybreak Coronet. Then you are praying for the 2 of or 4 Ancient Stirrings to find the 2 of in time. Also contrary to thought, Bogles can rebuild. Kor Spiritdancer is a hell of a card!
Is their an alternative card for Cavern of Souls to be used as a budget option until I save enough money to buy it? Thanks.
I don't know exactly, but probably some number of painlands and a shocklands/basics should suffice, especially if you have that mainboard Wastes. Alternatively you could do the 2 mana GW rock (forgetting the name right now).
*I decided to test the deck out and it's not going so well right now. The deck just seems too fair in this meta. Even the best draws of turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer often can't win against other decks' best draws. Now it could be that I'm testing against the wrong decks. I've done Elves, Bogles, Grishoalbrand, Titan Shift, and Amulet Titan. It has only done well vs. Amulet Titan out of those so far, mostly because of the inconsistency of the deck without Summer Bloom. I am going to test vs. GR Ponza next. (I am not testing Grixis or GBx variants because I pretty much know the answer to those. I want to see how it fairs against other decks...
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
This is just the initial draft, any suggestions? I've seen some builds MD Explosives but I think it's a meta call? One big question mark has been Matter Reshaper vs Eldrazi Skyspawner? With the introduction of Fatal Push into the format, don't both these cards get better? What are the pros/cons of running these and what would the ideal split be?
I managed to test against: UW Control (2-0 win) WBRG Griselbrand (2-1) win
I was just excited to play the deck and asked a few players to jam with me (some are quite skilled, RPTQ qualified and a few similar faces from my Standard PPTQ grinder days). It's nice to have a deck to learn and always have, that's one of the things I liked about modern but got caught up in standard for way to long. Thanks for any input you can give.
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Gavony is sort of a "win more" type of card. Rarely is our issue that our creatures aren't big enough.
Some have tried Sea Gate. Probably a meta call.
But given the bannings and printing of Fatal Push, odds are that Tron and Valakut decks will increase in prevalence. So Ghost Quarter seems best if you're running a utility land.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Edit: I am running a more traditional list (24 lands,4 mana dorks, 3/3 skyspawner-reshaper split) and I find that I like it better than the mana rock version. In the sideboard I went up two 2 rip and down to one cage. Rip helps a lot against grixis and any Goyf deck.
3 Drowner of Hope
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Instants (5)
4 Path to Exile
1 Stubborn Denial
Sorceries (4)
4 Ancient Stirrings
Artifacts (2)
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Waste
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Windswept Heath
2 Stony Silence
2 1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Worship
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Natural State
1 2 Rest in peace
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disdainful Stroke
This is the build I am currently using and I will explain my choices in the following 4 areas: mana base, creature selection, spell selection, and sideboard.
Mana Base:
Obviously, my mana base build is with blood moon in mind.
Both waste and an island are included in this build in order to produce each type of mana this deck requires. Some of the cons are that it does not have as many green sources. However, this makes path a nice pseudo fetch and provides while always providing value if your creatures get pathed. In addition, I run the mana rock. These seem controversial on the board. It is true that they can and are eaten by EE on 2 and are not your best top decks; on the other hand, when playing I've found the loss of a rock to EE to be not that bad. The mana rock could have always been another land so top decking it is equivalent to top decking a land. Furthermore, they have helped provide consistency in the deck helping churn out t3 thought knots or smashers.With this build I can GQ my own lands in response to Blood Moon or path my own creature. I still debate putting in an Island over GQ. Unfortunately, there is not a reliably way to fetch an island.Creatures:
My list is fairly standard. I do a
3/23/3 split for reshaper/skyspawner. Reshaper is great against grixis and jund while skyspanwer is helpful against infect and affinity. Spawner can help ramp & is a great answer to blood moon but I still run more reshaper over spawner.My mana base is built for blood moon and the mana rocks help with ramping as well. I've stuck with 3 drowner of hope. 4 has always felt like too many. Both skite and mimic have made appearances but I think neither will be great for this meta. I've yet to try endbringer (which sounds interesting), E-wit (mana base is strained) or duskwatch recruiter (I don't find this as appealing).Spells:
My build is fairly standards,4/4 Path and strings, while running 2 EE's in the main. Two main Ee's have worked out well and I've thought of going three. Recently, I've added 1 Stubborn Denial to the main. It has worked out really well for me. It helps with g1 tron and valakut by giving us time, counter a t1 vial and protected many of my creatures.
Sideboard:
One of the hardest things about building a sideboard is ensuring that one has enough hate for popular decks while shoring the bad match ups. With the recent ban's my sideboard has changed somewhat but not too drastically. I going two cages and one rip because I think that decks which have been on the outs (coco, nahiri, melira combo) will make a bit of a come back with less dredge hate. Furthermore, we know valakut and tron will be more prevalent so addition of disdainful stroke seems like a good call.
So now that I've discussed my deck choices I'd like to review MU's and sideboard planning. I'm not 100% on my sideboarding and any advice is appreciated. The match ups a broken down to Good, even and bad match ups.
Jund/Junk (Good Match up)
Our creatures tend to out value/preform theirs and we also top deck better than they do. They can win by ripping our hand apart and having a huge goyf.
In: EE, Rip, Disdainful Stroke and 2x Stubborn Denial
Out: 4 Nobles and 1 path
The Nobles will eat a bolt/other removal so for this grindy game we take them out. Only Play EE when ya need to otherwise it can be abrupt decay'd early. Rip will turn goyfs into 0/1's and stop lingering souls, and also stops kalitas from producing tokens. Disdainful Stroke is questionable over path.
Eldrazi (Even Match Up)
Who is on the play seems to determine this match up. This is also a match up were displacer shines and can help lock down a board. If a worship resolves it is almost impossible to win against.
In: 2x Worship, 2x Blessed Alliance
Out: 3 Matter Reshaper, 1 Eldrazi Skyspawner
Reshapers have the least impact on the board in this matchup so they come out. We are, however, leaving in the two EE's. They can take out tokens which can be a deciding factor in this MU. Likewise combat tricks with blessed alliance can also swing momentum. Untap and sack a great choices on blessed.
Burn (Good Match Up)
Burn is known for being fast but we're almost as fast and bigger so we tend to win this match up.
In: 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x worship 2x Stubborn Denial, EE
Out: 3x Drowner of Hope, 4x displacer
I take out drowner cause he is too slow and displacer because it is too mana intensive while dying to bolt. EE does a lot of work, especially if they are on the kitty build, while blessed alliance is the best card in this MU. Worship and Stubborn are also great in this match up
Affinity (Even Match Up)
Of the times I think of playing 4 chalice of the voids it is usually due to this match. None the less, I think we still have a good post sideboard which does not necessitate the chalices.
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Natural State, 2 blessed alliance, 1 EE
Out: 4x Reality Smashers, 3x Matter Reshaper
Stony kills in this match up. EE is also great on just about any number. Blessed alliance can lead to a blow out if they ravager sack to an inkmoth. Also if they attack with multiple creatures one can block and then cast blessed alliance after damage to have them sack the creature which wasn't blocked/killed. I think smashers do not lock the board down like drowner so they come out and reshaper will not be impactful enough to stay in.
Mefolk (Bad Match Up)
So these guys eat our lunch. EE (on 2) is an all-star here. We try to save path's for Master of Waves. Worship, if it lands, is another great card. With this mu we want to mull aggressively to find EE, Strings, or worship.
In: EE, 2x Worship, 2x Natural State
Out: 3x Matter Reshaper, 2x Reality Smasher
Infect (Even Match Up)
Infect can be fast but now with git probe ban they are more vulnerable to removal. If the game goes long and we resolve a displacer we are generally will win. EE is great for getting around their protection spells. This is one of the few match ups where I wish I had skite. Skyspawner is great for blocking inkmoth. We take out Reality Smasher due to lack of board interactions and one reshaper as well.
In: 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x Stubborn Denial, EE
Out: 4x Reality Smasher 1x Matter Reshaper
Tron (Bad Match Up)
I've personally done well against tron; however, I hear that it can be a problem match up for us as well. They go over the top of us so we need to be faster and stop them from landing as many of their bombs as possible. EE does nothing in this mu so we take it out and drowner is too slow.
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 3x Drowner and 2x EE
Grixis Delver/Control (Good Match Up)
I've heard we're favored in this MU but I've felt the opposite.For Delver we leave in EE for control we take out the EE.This is one of the matchups where I do not like Skyspawner.Having got to play against this deck more I feel better about our match up. Cryptic can be frustrating to play against and visions can help them pull a head. With that said, we can go faster than them and out value them. Reality Smasher is an all star in this match up.Skyspawner is great against delvers while RIP forces them to hard cast their big threats. By that time we either have answers or bigger threats of our own.
In: 2x Stubborn Denial, Disdainful Stroke,
12 RipOut:
2x Skyspawner 2x EE/Displacer4 Displacer, 1 GQNahiri Control (Good Match Up)
Cavern of Souls does work in this MU. We must be careful not to overextend however due to supreme verdict. We have a clock that is faster than they can answer and our creatures beat their removal.
In: 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Disdainful Stroke
Out: 2x EE, 3 Path to Exile
Dredge (Even Match Up)
This match up I do not know very well due to lack of experience against it. I think Cages, EE, Rip, and Worship are all good card for this MU.
In:
2x1 Grafdigger's cage, 2x Worship,12x Rip, 1 EEOut: Stubborn Denial, 4 Reality Smashers, 1 Displacer
That is all I have for now. I plan on adding a few decks (boggles, Valakut, ect) to the sideboard guide at a later time. I hope this helps some people & I look forward to some feedback so I can improve my build/play. Thanks all!
New Sideboard Guide:
Boggles (Good Match Up)
EE on 1 wins us this match up. We can also use scions to block and then sac to prevent them from gaining life. Eventually we can swarm with scions for a win. Landing a blessed alliance or worship can be game ending for them.
Out: 4x path to exile, 1 Matter Reshaper
In 1 EE, 2x Blessed Alliance, 2x Worship
Lantern Control (Bad Match Up)
If they land a bridge with a pithing needle on EE that's game for us unless we can get in the noble beats or mill them with displacer/thought-knot. We bring in stony to stop them from milling us while allowing us to mill them with thought-knot
In: 2x Stony Silence, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State, 1 EE
Out: 4x Path, 3x Drowner of Hope
Scapeshift, BTL Scapeshift, Through the Breach (Bad Match Up)
These decks tend to go over the top of us while being able to stall for answers (E.g. cast cryptic, tap draw, block with STEve sac for a land, ect). Our best bet is to go fast, have counters ready, and hopefully stang their key cards with a counter or a thought-knot. Always make scapeshift players show you the damage. They may have mountains in hand which will stop them from having lethal when they go off. I am up in the air if worship should be added to this match up. On one hand it requires that they damage our creatures and not us potentially saving us; on the other hand, it does nothing if we do not have creatures out and is a bad top deck.
In 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Worship, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Out: 2x EE, 3x Path to exile
Blue Moon (Bad Match Up)
Decks that mainboard Blood Moon can wreck us when they catch us off guard with it. Luckily, our deck is more resilient to Blood Moon than people think. With this match up we might have to do some funky things (Path our own creature) but we will eventually grind them out.
In: 1x EE, 2x Stubborn Denial, 2x Natural State
Out: 3x Matter Reshaper, 1x Drowner of Hope, 1x Reality Smasher
GUInfect UMerfolk RW Burn GRWBU Humans GWUBant Eldrazi GR RG EldraziC Serum Powder EldraziC Eldrazi TronGB GB Rock
Legacy:
GUInfect
RGLands
For the past few months, I've been working on a Google Sheet that I've used for aggregating match data and learning more about our matchups.
You can find it here.
As you will see, there's a page for entering data and two pages for parsing that data. I've already entered some data (I haven't been religious about entering—I'll try to improve!).
I'm hoping that over time we can use this resource to learn more about matchups we're seeing, how to sideboard, and the like.
If you have suggestions or notice any bugs, please let me know. And feel free to add this to the primer.
Thank you!
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Just adopted this from fish and has been treating me well so far, wrapped up my byes last week
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Drop EE and wipe their board
This answer is way too simple. A good lantern player will name EE with their needle, especially if you don't have a displacer already.
Our best alternative wincon is to actually mill them ourselves. If we don't kill them early, which we usually can't if they have a bridge, then we want to set up a displacer/TKS lock, ideally with a spellskite or other displacers/TKS to buffer against Fatal push. If that doesn't work, Hierarch beats also work. World breaker is also pretty good against them since it can't be milled unless they surgical extraction it.
and lantern control its easy because we have main board and side board against them just have to pray they dont mill those cards or needle or surgical it
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Its slightly more difficult then that - they have pithing needle (and ways to tutor for it), hand disruption etc. I've found that agood lantern pilot is favoured over us - however if you can get in early damage before bridge comes down and have nobles that can attack under the bridge then you can get there.
Obv bring in anything that can destroy artifacts - try getting a Displacer/TKS lock on them to get them to discard anything that will stop your own game plan - perhaps even RIP to shut off Academy Ruins..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Thanks for the input.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
havent tested Duskwatch Recruiter to a extent but it isnt that good because Bant usually skips turn 2 also its good against grindy matchups which bant is usually favored in anyway.
End bringer is semi decent again its good against the matchups we are already good against jund etc.. and id rather just play drowner for the same cost.
Ghost quarter is good against tron our worst match up which will make a rise again when infect slows down a bit
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
I was thinking that it would provide us with a good and alternative way to gain card advantage and Endbringer would be pretty good vs those Grindy matchups as well.
I expect both to increase in metagame share since things will be slowing down a bit.
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
R Goblins R
U Merfolk U
WGU Eldrazi WGU
Hiya all! I've rearranged my deck a bit. The mana base now runs 24 lands with no rocks. I played it against blue moon and was very successful with it so I think I am sticking with this build. Really Like having more threats i there as well. Furthermore, I've added a few more match ups to the sideboard guide. Thank you for the feed back.
GUInfect UMerfolk RW Burn GRWBU Humans GWUBant Eldrazi GR RG EldraziC Serum Powder EldraziC Eldrazi TronGB GB Rock
Legacy:
GUInfect
RGLands
Your guide is well thought out and mostly correct, but I have a nitpick here. Here's what Bogles sides against you.
In: 2 Gaddock Teeg, 4 Leyline of Sanctity, 0-2 Nature's Claim
Out: 1 Spirit Link, 1 Unflinching Courage, 2 Kor Spiritdancer, 0-2 Spirit Mantle, 0-2 other Auras
If you don't have Path to Exile, you're going to be very sad about a turn 2 Gaddock Teeg, especially on the play. Leyline of Sanctity makes Thought-Knot Seer NOT a broken card and makes Blessed Alliance a "gain 4" or "untap 2 creatures."
In my experience, the matchup is pretty close to even, but I would give a slight edge to Bogles. There is no doubt that main board Engineered Explosives could catch a player off guard. But without it, a Bogle basically gets much larger than any 1 Eldrazi and heaven forbid, it has Daybreak Coronet. Then you are praying for the 2 of or 4 Ancient Stirrings to find the 2 of in time. Also contrary to thought, Bogles can rebuild. Kor Spiritdancer is a hell of a card!
I don't know exactly, but probably some number of painlands and a shocklands/basics should suffice, especially if you have that mainboard Wastes. Alternatively you could do the 2 mana GW rock (forgetting the name right now).
*I decided to test the deck out and it's not going so well right now. The deck just seems too fair in this meta. Even the best draws of turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer often can't win against other decks' best draws. Now it could be that I'm testing against the wrong decks. I've done Elves, Bogles, Grishoalbrand, Titan Shift, and Amulet Titan. It has only done well vs. Amulet Titan out of those so far, mostly because of the inconsistency of the deck without Summer Bloom. I am going to test vs. GR Ponza next. (I am not testing Grixis or GBx variants because I pretty much know the answer to those. I want to see how it fairs against other decks...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Sideboard (15)
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3x Engineered Explosives
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Worship
This is just the initial draft, any suggestions? I've seen some builds MD Explosives but I think it's a meta call? One big question mark has been Matter Reshaper vs Eldrazi Skyspawner? With the introduction of Fatal Push into the format, don't both these cards get better? What are the pros/cons of running these and what would the ideal split be?
I managed to test against:
UW Control (2-0 win)
WBRG Griselbrand (2-1) win
I was just excited to play the deck and asked a few players to jam with me (some are quite skilled, RPTQ qualified and a few similar faces from my Standard PPTQ grinder days). It's nice to have a deck to learn and always have, that's one of the things I liked about modern but got caught up in standard for way to long. Thanks for any input you can give.
Ah my list:
1x Breeding Pool
3x Brushland
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Plains
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Yavimaya Coast
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Drowner of Hope
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Reality Smasher
2x Spellskite
4x Thought-Knot Seer
Instant (5)
1x Blessed Alliance
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3x Engineered Explosives
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Worship
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn