I am still not sold on Ghostly Prison, the timely is a concession to Burn. I am not even going to try against Tron and the same goes for Merfolk. Flaying Tendrils or Wrath of God was in the side, but I think we are better off improving the matches where we stand a chance than ones where we don't.
Yes, I know all about red.
First off I updated my list on TappedOut quite a bit based off some things I liked from the list at the SCG PC this past weekend. The Grafdigger's Cage side is gonna be RiP #3 once I get it. As for Merfolk I play it regularly as one of my friends at my LGS runs it and I'd say I'm 40/60 all time against him. It's not awful but it's by no means good but cards like Engineered Explosives and Runed Halo can help a lot. Tron is what it is and if you lose 1-2 that's a good match, Bant Eldrazi feels about as bad but luckily like Tron it loses hard to Infect, Affinity, and Burn so that keeps them in check at least currently.
What are people running for card draw? Just windbrisk heights? I'm thinking of running something like Night's Whisper as a 2 of.
Phyrexian arena is still my favorite card. For those saying its a liability in a fast meta, well, we're the control deck with targeted discard and chump blockers and cheap removal. If we can't stay alive long enough to resolve a 3 cmc enchantment to turn the corner, it just means we failed at our job is all. Arena takes over too many games for me to ever think of replacing.
I don't think it belongs in the main. Tokens already thrive off of virtual card advantage, but it needs to stay alive long enough for that to matter. Targeted discard can be bad against aggro on the draw, our cheap removal (path to exile) ramps our opponent for more explosive plays, and relying on blockers is not an effective strategy against non-Infect/Affinity deck. Aggro decks like Dredge and combo decks don't care if you resolve a Phyrexian Arena and they're the majority of the meta right now.
Right now, we have a ton of cards that don't do much to affect the board state immediately (discard, anthem, bitterblossom, etc.) and adding a 3 cmc card with the same flaw doesn't do much except against the very grindy matches. Keeping 1 or 2 in the side is fine, though enchantment hate is more common in games 2 and 3.
What are people running for card draw? Just windbrisk heights? I'm thinking of running something like Night's Whisper as a 2 of.
Phyrexian arena is still my favorite card. For those saying its a liability in a fast meta, well, we're the control deck with targeted discard and chump blockers and cheap removal. If we can't stay alive long enough to resolve a 3 cmc enchantment to turn the corner, it just means we failed at our job is all. Arena takes over too many games for me to ever think of replacing.
I don't think it belongs in the main. Tokens already thrive off of virtual card advantage, but it needs to stay alive long enough for that to matter. Targeted discard can be bad against aggro on the draw, our cheap removal (path to exile) ramps our opponent for more explosive plays, and relying on blockers is not an effective strategy against non-Infect/Affinity deck. Aggro decks like Dredge and combo decks don't care if you resolve a Phyrexian Arena and they're the majority of the meta right now.
Right now, we have a ton of cards that don't do much to affect the board state immediately (discard, anthem, bitterblossom, etc.) and adding a 3 cmc card with the same flaw doesn't do much except against the very grindy matches. Keeping 1 or 2 in the side is fine, though enchantment hate is more common in games 2 and 3.
I definitely agree with you on this Jongsl5, I personally don't like the idea of Arena at all in Tokens, Night's Whisper or Read the Bones make more sense to me if I was going to run draw/filtering.
What are people running for card draw? Just windbrisk heights? I'm thinking of running something like Night's Whisper as a 2 of.
Phyrexian arena is still my favorite card. For those saying its a liability in a fast meta, well, we're the control deck with targeted discard and chump blockers and cheap removal. If we can't stay alive long enough to resolve a 3 cmc enchantment to turn the corner, it just means we failed at our job is all. Arena takes over too many games for me to ever think of replacing.
I don't think it belongs in the main. Tokens already thrive off of virtual card advantage, but it needs to stay alive long enough for that to matter. Targeted discard can be bad against aggro on the draw, our cheap removal (path to exile) ramps our opponent for more explosive plays, and relying on blockers is not an effective strategy against non-Infect/Affinity deck. Aggro decks like Dredge and combo decks don't care if you resolve a Phyrexian Arena and they're the majority of the meta right now.
Right now, we have a ton of cards that don't do much to affect the board state immediately (discard, anthem, bitterblossom, etc.) and adding a 3 cmc card with the same flaw doesn't do much except against the very grindy matches. Keeping 1 or 2 in the side is fine, though enchantment hate is more common in games 2 and 3.
As you have said, it is meta dependant. I was replying to someone who was weighing the different card draw available to us. Against faster decks I run more Smothers and Dismembers to bolster the existing paths. Blessed alliance also does a number on infect players who lean hard on Blossoming Defense/Vines.
Of all the card draw available to us, Arena is to me the best, being a unboltable Bob, which gels nicely with our "reduce the efficiency of spot removal" theme. Saying its terrible at keeping us alive is like telling Grixis that Ancestral Visions is terrible at keeping them alive; I'm sure we're all aware of this.
@DHamlin Arena to me is far superior than a 1-time draw like Night's Whisper. Technically you're just trading 1 card for 2 more. If you're in the situation where you need to get ahead in cards, vs Jund for example, Arena is always going to seal the deal.
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I am going to pull one for a timely reinforcements. But I want the ability to hit them in a pinch when they search for a land. The other idea is that it would hit for a nahiri or chord of calling.
I am not saying it is the best list. But someone posted about old school tokens and I made it up.
Bitterblossom is also horribly slow in the current meta. Oh look, a turn 3.5 play. That generates 1 token. Too many better cards to be playing.
Bitterblossom is perfectly fine in the current meta 90% of the time, it gets us at least 1 token the same turn Souls/Spectral are playable. It's terrible top deck for sure though but that's always been the case so nothing new there.
Its strength lies in the fact that, like young pyromancer in delver, if it is unanswered, it can run away with the game. If the games starts to drag on, those tokens build up and make it difficult for an opponent to deal with. At the least, they chump block. But when we get a Sorin or Anthems, we can run away with games. Raise the Alarm can't do that. Choose what is best for your meta.
I was quite sceptical about Bitterblossom as well. Then, I started testing it and -wow- it is sooo powerful! As said above it is like pyromancer, with the difference that it is an enchantment and so way harder to remove. it is a nightmare for any midrange/control deck, it wins games alone, generate tons of chumpblockers that may turn into attackers as well! fair decks suffers it a lot and it is perfectly fine against infect (if we are sure to survive that turn we play it ) and affinity.
Obviously, to side it out against Burn and nasty combo, but with the other decks it is totally playable right now, in my opinion
Yes great card but again, you mention it is a nightmare for "midrange/control" deck and so this evaluation is biased towards a particular meta. I still think it is worth playing in the main due to Infect/ Affinity being so dominant but not to the point where I play all 4 copies and draw multiples.
I've been testing the 3 BB vs 1 Raise the Alarm split and it's been absolutely great. I've played many games and I only regretted once that the RtA was not a Bitterblossom (not surprisingly, against Grixis Control). Grixis Control is surprisingly a more difficult match-up than I thought, as snapcaster mage and kolaghan's command provide a lot of value. But the deck literally dies to graveyard hate in games 2 and 3 - Snapcaster and Tasgiur become terrible, no recursion with Kolaghan/ Cryptic, etc.
1 Timely Reinforcement in the main looks quite good in this meta. I'll probably try it out.
Well went 3-1 somehow at the weirdest FNM I've seen in a while. 16 players which is about average for my LGS, but instead of the normal rather eclectic meta of most of the main archetypes in modern (minus dredge) we had FIVE!!! UG Infect players, plus 2 Burn, Elves, and Merfolk making up 9/16 players. I drew the short stick apparently and faced Infect 3x, lost to R1, beat it R2 and R4, and beat Burn R3.
I don't disagree, and the issue of splash is apparently pretty nebulous right now. I just thought it was an interesting take and could imagine wescoe saying something like this for tokens.
De la Torre ran a four of deathrite shaman for mana acceleration. That is probably the biggest thing here. Voice is probably not the good.
Siege rhino could be. And aside from Oath of Ajani the other stuff is pretty stock. I don't think oath of ajani will play out for us but we won't know if we don't play around.
Voice of reaurgence is really bad in the meta right now but maybe in a token oriented build **** this it couls be okay.
You actually can run spectral procession over misnight haunting. You just need 3 filter lands and 5-6 gw gb fastlands. I would also consider adding 2 more mana dorks. Then the casting problem is not an issue.
To maximize Ajani you kinda have to run Nissa over siege rhino.
And I just noticed the 3 gavony townships. That makes the mana more tricky and you definitely need more dorks to compensate.
Now that I read the article, oath of ajani seems much better in a hatebear sort of deck. Or at least gw goodstuff. The combo with flickerwisps, birds of paradise becoming useful, blade splicer being far more potent, etc. The mana basr is also much easier without spectral procession.
The awkward thing about oath of ajani is you usually don't want to play it turn 2 unless you have a Gideon and even then, you kinda waste the value of counters.
If you're going to splash green for the Oath of Ajani then you have to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, the 3 mana token producing PW. Alternate ramp in the form of Noble Hierarch is also, from my POV, non-negotiable in the now 3-color deck that cannot afford turn 1 discard plays as it needs to quickly advance its mana (and by extension, game plan). Black seems less and less necessary except for our starboy, Lingering Souls and perhaps Sorin.
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First off I updated my list on TappedOut quite a bit based off some things I liked from the list at the SCG PC this past weekend. The Grafdigger's Cage side is gonna be RiP #3 once I get it. As for Merfolk I play it regularly as one of my friends at my LGS runs it and I'd say I'm 40/60 all time against him. It's not awful but it's by no means good but cards like Engineered Explosives and Runed Halo can help a lot. Tron is what it is and if you lose 1-2 that's a good match, Bant Eldrazi feels about as bad but luckily like Tron it loses hard to Infect, Affinity, and Burn so that keeps them in check at least currently.
I don't think it belongs in the main. Tokens already thrive off of virtual card advantage, but it needs to stay alive long enough for that to matter. Targeted discard can be bad against aggro on the draw, our cheap removal (path to exile) ramps our opponent for more explosive plays, and relying on blockers is not an effective strategy against non-Infect/Affinity deck. Aggro decks like Dredge and combo decks don't care if you resolve a Phyrexian Arena and they're the majority of the meta right now.
Right now, we have a ton of cards that don't do much to affect the board state immediately (discard, anthem, bitterblossom, etc.) and adding a 3 cmc card with the same flaw doesn't do much except against the very grindy matches. Keeping 1 or 2 in the side is fine, though enchantment hate is more common in games 2 and 3.
I definitely agree with you on this Jongsl5, I personally don't like the idea of Arena at all in Tokens, Night's Whisper or Read the Bones make more sense to me if I was going to run draw/filtering.
As you have said, it is meta dependant. I was replying to someone who was weighing the different card draw available to us. Against faster decks I run more Smothers and Dismembers to bolster the existing paths. Blessed alliance also does a number on infect players who lean hard on Blossoming Defense/Vines.
Of all the card draw available to us, Arena is to me the best, being a unboltable Bob, which gels nicely with our "reduce the efficiency of spot removal" theme. Saying its terrible at keeping us alive is like telling Grixis that Ancestral Visions is terrible at keeping them alive; I'm sure we're all aware of this.
@DHamlin Arena to me is far superior than a 1-time draw like Night's Whisper. Technically you're just trading 1 card for 2 more. If you're in the situation where you need to get ahead in cards, vs Jund for example, Arena is always going to seal the deal.
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I am going to pull one for a timely reinforcements. But I want the ability to hit them in a pinch when they search for a land. The other idea is that it would hit for a nahiri or chord of calling.
I am not saying it is the best list. But someone posted about old school tokens and I made it up.
I like raise the alarm being able to ambush attackers and come in at instant speed as well as being a better topdeck than bitterblossom.
Bitterblossom is perfectly fine in the current meta 90% of the time, it gets us at least 1 token the same turn Souls/Spectral are playable. It's terrible top deck for sure though but that's always been the case so nothing new there.
Yes great card but again, you mention it is a nightmare for "midrange/control" deck and so this evaluation is biased towards a particular meta. I still think it is worth playing in the main due to Infect/ Affinity being so dominant but not to the point where I play all 4 copies and draw multiples.
I've been testing the 3 BB vs 1 Raise the Alarm split and it's been absolutely great. I've played many games and I only regretted once that the RtA was not a Bitterblossom (not surprisingly, against Grixis Control). Grixis Control is surprisingly a more difficult match-up than I thought, as snapcaster mage and kolaghan's command provide a lot of value. But the deck literally dies to graveyard hate in games 2 and 3 - Snapcaster and Tasgiur become terrible, no recursion with Kolaghan/ Cryptic, etc.
1 Timely Reinforcement in the main looks quite good in this meta. I'll probably try it out.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13695&writer=Craig Wescoe&articledate=12-23-2016
Wrong thread? how is this related to BW tokens?
Looks pretty bad, Midnight haunting is a bad magic card, and really looks like to decks here part abzan mid, part tokens that generally means bad deck
De la Torre ran a four of deathrite shaman for mana acceleration. That is probably the biggest thing here. Voice is probably not the good.
Siege rhino could be. And aside from Oath of Ajani the other stuff is pretty stock. I don't think oath of ajani will play out for us but we won't know if we don't play around.
You actually can run spectral procession over misnight haunting. You just need 3 filter lands and 5-6 gw gb fastlands. I would also consider adding 2 more mana dorks. Then the casting problem is not an issue.
To maximize Ajani you kinda have to run Nissa over siege rhino.
And I just noticed the 3 gavony townships. That makes the mana more tricky and you definitely need more dorks to compensate.
The awkward thing about oath of ajani is you usually don't want to play it turn 2 unless you have a Gideon and even then, you kinda waste the value of counters.
Red splash still seems better.
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