Hey hankeypank, I have to recommend a complete overhaul of your board. What you need is cards that address specific matchups in the meta now, for example Flaying Tendrils and Disenchant are both terrible in the format. As you can see from the below link, I come into nearly every matchup not just with cards to bring in, but roughly the same number of cards I want cut. I build my sb in an excelsheet very scientifically, and make sure every configuration of my deck has a good curve too
What do you think of this list? I'm planning on playing this in my LGS. I think it might lack the pressure of Reality Smasher but I'm not sure. Coco/Evo/Jund/Dredge/Bant Eldrazi are popular decks in our meta.
Congrats on the great finish. I really enjoy the archetype and think your list looks great. I read your write up on another forum and I appreciate that you take the time to give great feedback.
I was wondering moving forward what you plan to change about the deck. I was curious if theres any merit to playing a card like leyline of the void over relic. i see how relic is great at adding value but i know the modern master gurus say leyline is an upgrade in every way. i suppose this deck the relics are better but i wonder if it could keep up to a deck like dredge which seems like a deck thats here to stay and might just be faster then what relics can provide. i suppose collective brutality would get a little better if you played leylines as reduntant copies naturally are much worse then relics and you can just cash them in for effects off brutality.
i loved the inclusion of scullers and removing the smashers. did you find it difficult to cast scullers on time? did you feel 3 was the right number?
my last question is - Since the deck is more crotrolling compared to past lists do you think bitterblossoms fits the gameplan at all? It seems like a good turn 2 play for this deck. I also really like the idea of testing out whispers of emrakul and dip into delirium if bitterblossoms is good. the collective brutality could be crazy. far fetched but I enjoy the discussions.
Hey deadmedix, moving forward I plan to change very little about the deck. I outlined my changes to the sideboard on both r/spikes and r/modernmagic, and have decided that I'll be trying a Declaration in Stone over the Main Dismember and a Blessed Alliance in the side.
So Leyline is certainly a more powerful card, but far less flexible, Relic has alot more play to it than it looks. Relic does a better job enabling processing because it can be drawn later and for a measly mana or 2 give you all the exile you need. Draw a card is also a rider I need on my otherwise dead in certain matchups maindeck card. Leyline is a consideration in the side for a heavy Dredge meta, but after talking to Ross Merriam it seems our matchup is already fine with the Relics. Most other cards in the sideboard have broad cross archetype application, Leyline is just too narrow to bring in often and thus not worth the space. I actually had 3 in my board the night before the Invi and cut them for 2 Surgicals and something for other matchups. I've since cut the 2 Surgicals for a single Rest in Peace, thus freeing up one more slot which I really really like. And you should never play a card to pitch to something like Brutality, it simply makes the downside of having it stuck in your hand mitigated a small percentage of the time. It may feel worse, but you can pitch a Relic and you're in no worse spot.
Scullers feel great at 3, I usually want one but the second has such diminishing marginal utility. However, a bear is a bear, so drawing 2 is fine. I could cast them on time usually, and if I couldn't its because I had Ghost Quarter or Eldrazi Temple, which naturally put me on a game plan where I don't necessarily need to cast an early Sculler, IE a fast Strangler and TKS on turns 2 and 3. And Ghost Quarter is really like a quarter of a colored source, its surprisingly common to Ghost Quarter yourself to cast colored spells. Usually I do that on turn 3 so that I can play another 3 mana worth of stuff the following turn, but sometimes turn 2 could be necessary.
The deck is very controlling but I don't like Bitterblossom for a few reasons, its very slow and we don't have Goyf's or Mistbinds or anything to synergise. The other is Lingering Souls is just a better card by a country mile, and between it and Blight Herder we have enough 1/1s running around. Whispers of Emrakul is a trap card, Hymn is rarely good past turn 2, and delirium is unattainable before 2. I play Legacy Jund and have a love/hate relationship with Hymn as is, making it worse certainly makes me ok with not ever playing it
After a hiatus I've returned, great job deaddrift keeping this house in order and again great work RidetheIguana giving this deck even more of a pedigree at the open like phreshtingz before you. I'll be at GP Indy this weekend playing the following list below, I've also included an in-depth side boarding guide. Looking forward to some good discussions.
Creatures
Spellskite - at worst its a wall and 'welding jar' at best it puts the screws to certain decks in the format.
Displacer - the soft lock is real with both TKS and Tidehollow (make sure you stack your triggers right). It already has a solid body but its ability can shut down tons of decks and often make your swings unblockable.
Spells
I personally like the 3/2 split especially since i think there will be a fair amount of bant eldrazi running around
Surgical - its there to mise, provide a g-probe and turn on processing if we haven't drawn relic
Declaration - its been very promising in testing, if you go way back to the beginning of this thread i was testing utter end, but the low opportunity cost of 1W is too tempting to pass up, its whites cheap imitation of maelstrom pulse.
Collective Brutality - Card is a house in certain match ups like burn and infect other times is just ok but it has a lot of play thats why there is a second in the SB, its baby profane command.
Lands
We're at 11 Colorless sources, 15 Black sources and 15 White sources of which 3 come into play tapped. This also gives us a 43% chance to have ghost quarter against GR tron or Valakut, the molten pinnacle by T3. So according to Frank Karsten we're right above curve for everything; 14 sources for T1 @ 90% prob, 13 for T2, 12 for T3 and 11 for T4. Granted we do have 3 tap lands but their utility far out weights their negative.
Sideboard
Most everything is pretty standard except: Surgical, Collective Brutality, Ratchet Bomb & Memoricide.
Surgical - a personal favorite helps in a fair amount of situations and can be skill testing, similar to ghost quarter use it on the draw step.
Collective Brutality - I like 2 in the 75 split between MD & SB, again when its good(Burn/infect) its a amazing other times its so-so.
Ratchet bomb - this could be another damnation or flaying tendrills or even EE. While all those cards are often A+ to B+ in certain match ups this card provides a lot of flexibility while being a C+ contributor.
Memoricide - I wanted to dedicate a pure hate card for some of our worst match ups and the eldrazi mirror.
And Ghost Quarter is really like a quarter of a colored source, its surprisingly common to Ghost Quarter yourself to cast colored spells. Usually I do that on turn 3 so that I can play another 3 mana worth of stuff the following turn, but sometimes turn 2 could be necessary.
I have to hand it to your results in the Open, RidetheIguana, but I find this to be pretty startling. What you describe sounds like an unacceptable tempo loss to me and I am drawing blanks trying to think of any other deck I've ever heard of that would consider something like this to be a normal line of play.
It really sounds to me like this play is indicating that you are too light on BW sources--a perspective we've already discussed elsewhere--and I wonder if the utility of Ghost Quarter in the matches where you're using it against opponents really outweighs the matches where you are forced to use it on yourself.
I think I'm going to retire from posting my ideas for a while, since I have long worried that I was dominating this thread too heavily. I hope you'll take a moment to post up with results periodically in the future. Cheers; here's to good draws and shrewd plays!
After a hiatus I've returned, great job deaddrift keeping this house in order and again great work RidetheIguana giving this deck even more of a pedigree at the open like phreshtingz before you. I'll be at GP Indy this weekend playing the following list below, I've also included an in-depth side boarding guide. Looking forward to some good discussions.
Thanks for your kind words, Beautox. If it weren't for your initiative, it seems likely to me that this deck would have disappeared altogether. I love me some B/W Modern action, but Processors was the first deck I played in that color mix that truly seemed ready to rumble with the rest of the format--and I wouldn't have been able to make it stick without your early efforts. Best of luck to you as well, and I look forward to reading about your experiences.
[EDIT] I will try to get to the primer this weekend and update it to reflect the SCG placement and other changes over the past couple of months. However, school is starting up for me (I teach) and time will become much more strained for me, so no promises. Please feel free to post up or PM me with suggestions if you have any.
What do you think of this list? I'm planning on playing this in my LGS. I think it might lack the pressure of Reality Smasher but I'm not sure. Coco/Evo/Jund/Dredge/Bant Eldrazi are popular decks in our meta.
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- I find myself having no cards in hand quite often, the deck doesn't really let you draw anything besides from cracking Relic. Do you guys have this too?
- Would Sea Gate Wreckage main board be an option to replace a Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel to give some extra card draw?
- What you said Deadrift about more BW sources for successfull Sculler casts; I think you are right. I found myself having colorless mana quite some bit without access to both black and white. Would replacing a Ghost Quarter by a Godless Shrine be an option?
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Really liking Collective Brutality! Discard + removal does its work really good
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- Ghost Quartering your own land to fix colors, that sets you behind a land right? Is that really worth it as you are losing quite some tempo
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
- Shambling Vent, nice!
PS: Deadrift please stay. From what I've read the last 2 weeks your input is valuable to all players playing the deck and using this forum to perfect it. I for one am really happy with your fundamented replies. Keep on the good work!
Deaddrift, you keep bringing up me not having enough colored sources and linking an article which says I have more than enough for 2 drops (13, I have 15 and 16 White and Black respectively). Not considering every option available to you no matter how bad it feels gives up such a big edge in games of magic. Embrace counterintuitive plays, they come up and are the deciding factor in turning a loss into a win. Winning isn't always pretty. As for Ghost Quarter, I use it offensively almost every time, the utility is immense, and having the option to hit your own lands can't be bad. Don't do it to fix your mana willy nilly, but if it leads to you being able to cast a series of game winning cards which you otherwise could not without giving up enough tempo to keep you from winning, you'd be foolish to not.
Hey Beatox, list looks good. I've found Surgical Extraction, Disenchant, Ratchet Bomb, and Memoricide to be underperformers, and Zealous Persecution and Damnation to be overperformers of the cards you have in your board.
DCteamup, I worry your mana is being hurt by cards like Cavern of Souls, which look enticing but actually don't help cast much. Flaying Tendrils is not worth the sideboard slot, as Deadrift pointed out it is only good against Abzan Coco (driven out of thge meta by Dredge hate), 8 Whack (Budget Deck), and Elves (which though it won the invitational, is not all that popular, and Wrath of God and Zealous are way better in the matchup anyway). Also I'd like to hear your reasoning on Hallowed Moonlight, what problem cards/archetypes does that answer?
@deaddrift, I definitely enjoy your posts, so hope you continue with your involvement in the thread.
I played BW Eldrazi to a Top 4 finish at an 19-player PPTQ this weekend. I didn't really take notes, so just reconstructing what I can.
vs Jeskai Control 2-1 [1-0]
OP: Lingering Souls, Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher
UP: 7 card hands
Notes: Game 1, I mulled to 6 on the play, but was able to deploy a few threats. He was a heavier planeswalker build than normal, with Nahiri, Ajani, andGideon Jura. I got him to 9 before he was able to stabilize off of a Supreme Verdict and Nahiri ult. Game 2, I mulled to 6 on the play again. Got an early Lingering Souls and he didn't have a sweeper. They go the distance. Game 3, I mull to 4(!), but he kept a 1-lander with Serum Visions on the play. Bottomed 2 on the Visions and still missed his land. He got it the next turn, but then missed his third land for several turns. I played Lingering Souls and Thought-Knot Seer. He revealed Nahiri, Ajani, and Gideon in hand. I took Ajani, as I thought it was his best way back in the game and he was so far away from 5 mana. He eventually got to 4 lands and minused Nahiri on TKS. He was still looking for Gideon mana, but didn't find it until he was at 1, and it was a fetchland.
vs Abzan 2-1 [2-0]
OP: Relic of Progenitus, Though-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher
He was the Flayer version of the deck, but Relic of Progenitus managed his graveyard, allowing Wasteland Strangler to pick off some guys. I ended game 1 at 20 life, with an early Thought-Knot Seer providing pressure. Game 2, he was on the mana denial plan, bringing in Fulminators and Tectonic Edge. I had some spirits, but he got a Scavenging Ooze down to gain some life and put a clock on while I drew blanks. Game 3, I got a quick Smasher down while he stumbled on mana and it ended very quickly.
vs GR Tron 0-2 [2-1]
OP: his Karn
UP: Getting paired down against Tron
Game 1, I drew two Ghost Quarters, but it just didn't matter. He had too many ways to dig for his pieces. I got him to 7, but he stuck a Karn and that was it. Game 2, I got him to 1, but he Nature's Claimed his Spellskite to go to 5, blew an O-Stone, and Karn'd me out once again.
vs Lantern Control 2-1 [3-1]
OP: Lingering Souls
I knew what I was in for after seeing him play next to me the previous round. Yuck. Game 1, I mulled to 6 and he got a quick Ensnaring Bridge, Lantern, Codex Shredder, and spellbombed me out in short order. Game 2, he mulled to 6. I went Lingering Souls into Reality Smasher while he bricked on mana. Game 3, I got him to 1 with a couple spirits and a Reality Smasher. He Bell'd and Shred'd several times and at the last possible moment found an Ensnaring Bridge. Then Spellskite backup, then Aether Grid. He started shooting me for 3 a turn. Down to 15, to 12, to 9. Then he draws and laughes. "Punished" he said, showing me a 1-of Thoughtseize that he had drawn and was unable to cast at 1 life, leaving him dead to spirits. He should have sniped them off with Aether Grid instead of going first at my life total. An exciting win, when I thought I was surely locked out of the game!
vs Burn 0-0-3 [3-1-1]
ID into top 8!
Top 8 archetypes:
Abzan vs UW Tron
Burn vs UG Infect
BG Infect vs BW Tokens
GR Tron vs BW Eldrazi
Quarterfinals: vs GR Tron2-1
OP: Thoughtseize
Well, maybe I should have thought through that ID some more, as I get matched against the Tron deck that smashed me in swiss, and he is on the play. Game 1, he mulls to 6. I Thoughtseize him and see Sylvan Scrying, World Breaker, Wurmcoil Engine x2, and a Power-Plant. I take the Scrying and hope he doesn't draw into tron. I get some spirits down to chip away, but I don't have much pressure. He keeps hitting land drops up to 5. One more and he'll have Wurmcoil online. Brick, brick, brick! Got lucky there. Game 2, I got super cute and decided it would be a good idea to Ghost Quarter his land on turn 1 and hope he had his Forest in hand. It didn't work and he crushed me while I was effectively a turn behind. Game 3, he mulliganed and I went with the ol' fetch, shock, Thoughtseize line. He had 2 colorless lands, 2 Ancient Stirrings, a Chromatic Sphere, Sylvan Scrying, and Spellskite. I take the Sphere as his only way to make green. Then I follow it up with Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher to get win.
vs UW Tron 0-2
UP: My mana
Ugh, who made this top 8 bracket? This deck had the Gifts-Rites package for Elesh Norn & Iona, but also the Thopter-Sword combo. The games were uninteresting however, as I was stuck on two lands for forever in game 1 and had 7 lands but no colorless mana in game 2.
The UW Tron player wound up winning the event, defeating BG Infect in the finals (Elesh Norn OP).
DCteamup, I worry your mana is being hurt by cards like Cavern of Souls, which look enticing but actually don't help cast much. Flaying Tendrils is not worth the sideboard slot, as Deadrift pointed out it is only good against Abzan Coco (driven out of thge meta by Dredge hate), 8 Whack (Budget Deck), and Elves (which though it won the invitational, is not all that popular, and Wrath of God and Zealous are way better in the matchup anyway). Also I'd like to hear your reasoning on Hallowed Moonlight, what problem cards/archetypes does that answer?
Hi, thanks for your reply. Would you suggest swapping Caverns for Godless Shrine for example? I must say I didn't board in Flaying Tendrils as much as I would've expected so I will cut it and see how to proceed from there. Hallowed Moonlight I've put in as an anti Dredge/Abzan Evo/Chord/Coco/Nahiri/Aether Vial card. It fits the colors, is relatively cheap and draws us a card. Keeping 2 mana open isn't a rare sight with this deck, like for activating Shambling Vent, pathing, cracking relic etc.
Could you please also have a look at the questions/remarks I have posted and let me know your thoughts? I would very much appreciate your input.
Strongly considering dropping MD surgical for 3rd displacer, and moving up to 2 damnation and 2 zealous while cutting surgical, r-bomb & memorcide while replacing rest for the weary with 3 blessed alliance.
I'm going to stick very closely to RidetheIguana decklist. I know some people are very high on smasher but feel like smasher is definitely what the bant eldrazi list wants to do and do it better then we can.
The only changes im making to the list will be to replace Liliana with 1 displacer. It's only because of budget that I'm making this swap. I also see displacer as more of a 6 drop than anything else but could come in handy if you need to be on a more aggressive plan and just run it out early. i like the 3/2 split on IoC Seize but that might be more of a metagame call. Also will try the declaration of stone over the dismember which was something that RidetheIduana wanted to do anyways which I believe might turn out to be a great choice. Lastly I'm cutting 1 vents for 1 shrine. this could be wrong but I'd like to have the ability to search a dual if I have a shrine in play or in hand already.
The fact that he came 9th at a large modern open is no joke and it was only tiebreakers that kept him out of top 8. Wish we could have seen coverage on this deck but I also like how this deck is under the radar as well. I love to play the decks that most do not. If this deck exploded in popularity it becomes less my style.
very interested to see how people do with this deck moving forward I for one and looking forward to the next modern game at my local store.
Beatox, those changes sound good. I'd prefer the third Strangler over the 3rd Displacer, and the first Timely over the 3rd Blessed Alliance. I just put an Alliance in my Board I'm excited to try it out. It has such great utiliy against Burn, Infect, Death's Shadow, Boggles and even Scapeshift (Though Rest is better there). Nothing feels better than "take 18?" "Sure gain some life and live". Feed the clan does something similar out of Jund.
Deadmedix, I think that Lili/Displacer swap is fine, it's one I almost made right before the open. The Lili is definitely better, but it's close. And I stand by the full 4 Vents, especially because I usually want all of my fetches to get basics. But that swap should be fairly inconsequential, as would the IOK/Sieze. It's been a busy week so I've yet to try the Dec in Stone, but its a pretty obvious inclusion that I'm eager to test in the Dismember slot as you mentioned. Good luck at your next modern event!
Beatox, those changes sound good. I'd prefer the third Strangler over the 3rd Displacer, and the first Timely over the 3rd Blessed Alliance. I just put an Alliance in my Board I'm excited to try it out. It has such great utiliy against Burn, Infect, Death's Shadow, Boggles and even Scapeshift (Though Rest is better there). Nothing feels better than "take 18?" "Sure gain some life and live". Feed the clan does something similar out of Jund.
Deadmedix, I think that Lili/Displacer swap is fine, it's one I almost made right before the open. The Lili is definitely better, but it's close. And I stand by the full 4 Vents, especially because I usually want all of my fetches to get basics. But that swap should be fairly inconsequential, as would the IOK/Sieze. It's been a busy week so I've yet to try the Dec in Stone, but its a pretty obvious inclusion that I'm eager to test in the Dismember slot as you mentioned. Good luck at your next modern event!
Deaddrift, you keep bringing up me not having enough colored sources and linking an article which says I have more than enough for 2 drops (13, I have 15 and 16 White and Black respectively). Not considering every option available to you no matter how bad it feels gives up such a big edge in games of magic. Embrace counterintuitive plays, they come up and are the deciding factor in turning a loss into a win. Winning isn't always pretty. As for Ghost Quarter, I use it offensively almost every time, the utility is immense, and having the option to hit your own lands can't be bad. Don't do it to fix your mana willy nilly, but if it leads to you being able to cast a series of game winning cards which you otherwise could not without giving up enough tempo to keep you from winning, you'd be foolish to not.
Since the majority of you lands are BW, I think you need to treat tidehollow as a 2 colored mana source. Therefore, you need at least 20 BW colored sources to reliably cast tidehollow on turn 2. I have been trying out tidehollow in my processor list (with 14 B and 14 W sources) and it has been a struggle to cast tidehollow at all some games. In my BW eldrazi midrange list ( http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-01-16-bw-eldrazi-midrange/ ; the sideboard is out of date) with 17 B and 17 W sources, it is still rough to cast tidehollow. I used to run liliana in that list (you can check the bw eldrazi midrange forum posts in my sig for why I cut it). The fact is, until wizards actually prints a bw fast land or fetch-able colorless sources the mana base for BW will be rough.
Strongly considering dropping MD surgical for 3rd displacer, and moving up to 2 damnation and 2 zealous while cutting surgical, r-bomb & memorcide while replacing rest for the weary with 3 blessed alliance.
I am not the biggest fan of surgical. I really like the card, but everytime I play it I am underwhelmed.
Eldrazi displacer is a great card that really helps out against tokens and you can flicker thought-knot to mill their deck if you are in a stalemate. I like to flicker thought-knot on their draw step when I have a decent board presence to make sure things do not get out of hand.
Blessed alliance has been great for me in the side and collective brutality is downright amazing (but is bad against tron). I posted some comments a few pages ago about some of the new cards.
I would recommend a worship or two in the sideboard. This card flat out wins games against wide decks that we have no business winning. Merfolk, for example, typically has one card in their 75 that can deal with it. It is also great against: elves (if you can live until turn 4), burn, zoo, bw tokens, and a lot of other decks.
I also recommend running a celestial purge in the side to deal with blood moon, liliana, and nahari. The new mardu control deck with bob's, emurakul, and nahari can be a difficult match. Nahari is a big pain to deal with since she has such a high starting loyalty.
This past weekend I wanted to try to get some results, so I cut the fun-ofs from my list (Gemstone Caverns + Eternal Scourge wombo combo and Batterskull). I went with a main 60 with the same non-lands as Deaddrift's latest build (swapping in two inquisitions). I ended up gaining one more reshaper, now up to two, and gaining back Go for the Throat from the other trimmed non-land. The Go for the Throat literally won me game two and three in an infect matchup (Path to Exile + GftT on both his attacking creatures on turn 3 both of game two and three sealed the deal both times) solidifed that this card should have stayed in my list in the first place.
At a 17 person FNM with the list, I ended up going 3-0-1 (drew going into round 4 to both tie for first), having my best results with the deck yet. The lower curve and added removal really were key in some games. I also had one of those nights where my opening hands and draws were on-point, such as game two and three against bogles having E.E in the opening hand, and facing a ponza deck that misplayed turn 1 and 2 and delayed a possible T3 blood moon allowing me to drop a smasher in before he got a T4 blood moon. The lone smasher eventually swung for the win. But I don't think it was just luck, I think the main 60 Deaddrift has put together is about as optimized as a smasher version can be. The following day I was in a small 8 person 3-rounder, and went 2-1 for second place. The last match was against Jund, and we had a very close game 3 where he won the topdeck war, I'd say both events were a big success and I've shifted my mtgo list to be very similar to my paper list and will hopefully be seeing a bump up from my usual 3-2 finish in league play online.
Everyone's been raving about Collective Brutality, and I had some success with it when I tested it in the sideboard one night at FNM, So I've decided to try and add one in the main 60 for a few tournies and see how it goes. The card I trimmed was one copy of Mind Stone. I chose mind stone because of times where I've had both mind stones in hand early in the game. This change should speed the deck up a tiny bit, and make those situations where the deck opens very slowly less common. Also having added a reshaper recently, it sort of alleviates the loss of a cantrip. I've also wanted to get back to 5 discard for a while, and I like that the 5th discard comes with so much extra utility. Utility cards are great in this deck.
Here is my current 75, for the past week or so I've been working on some sideboard notes, trying to get a more solid idea of what goes in and out for each matchup. If anyone has a list similar to mine and wants tips/discussion/to critique my In/Out choices, let me know and Ill throw the notes up here. Although I will have to go through and update them with the change to Collective Brutality as that's something I've decided to to today.
The sculler + Herder list makes total sense, you use scullers to exile and allow your processing to go off more consistently. I can see why the list runs no smashers and instead focuses on going all-in on processor value. Personally I don't see myself playing in that style, because I prefer to turn the corner with smasher as well as have the option of playing as the aggressor when needed. I'm not particularly a fan of Sculler because it can die so easily and give their card right back (unless you quickly process), and I'm not a fan of Blight Herder because it is easily removed and paying (5) to have 3 1/1s is really underwhelming, whether the herder gets countered or removed. Smasher sticks on the board way better, and the fact that they have similar clocks (with 3 1/1s along with the Herder) isn't really giving smasher credit for having haste. Being able to attack with it the turn you play it is really good, and has saved me so many times against Nahiri. I don't think everyone should necessarily move over to this Herder version because of the results, I believe that since this deck is played very little at large tournament levels, it has very few chances to make a good run. Basically the small representation is surely to lead to less results. Having a solid outting takes a combination of a good decklist, a very good pilot, a bit of the heart of the cards, and a field that is favorable to the deck you brought. Just because the Herder version was the first one to put up results since the creation of the deck (Sowers, Newlamog, and Eye of Ugin), doesn't mean a smasher deck couldn't do just as well. I'll be sticking with smashers unless I see this Herder + Sculler version blowing up and having more impressive results in the coming months.
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
I can address a few of your comments. Vault of the Archangel is an insane card and needs to stay. Just having the threat of that ability to activate on your opponents turn can and will deny them from attacking into deathtouch 1/1 spirits or scions. There's situations where you've got a creature or other spell in your hand, but it's better to activate vault for the lifelink or deathtouch. It eats up land hate, protecting your Eldrazi Temples. The activation might not happen very often, but just the possibility or threat of it means its literally our best colorless producing utility land.
I have definitely had games where I've been praying for a T1 or T2 relic draw to enable my strangler's processor value. I'm sure the Sculler version alleviates this somewhat. The best way to avoid this is to pay close attention to opening hands and their synergy (or lack thereof), and to be content with a vanilla strangler or herder from time to time.
Most of the people posting of late have tried Eternal Scourge in their list, and I think the consensus is that at the end of the day, the recurring didn't really effect many games as they were decided too quickly, or it just was a boring vanilla 3/3 in a format filled with creatures that do more than have power and toughness.
Matter Reshaper is pretty solid and also fights for Scullers for slots in the main 60 in the Sculler + Herder version. If you go with no Scullers and Smashers, you could run 2-3 Reshapers.
Oblivion Sower is literally the card that got me to make this deck, but it was used because the lands were needed to ramp into Newlamog. There is just very little need for those lands when Sower is already at the top of your curve, and a 5/8 body nice but also a bit overkill for modern, smashers are already some of the biggest creatures played. And it's easily dealt with by removal, meaning you spent 6 mana to get extra lands you didn't need.
I would advise against trimming Dismember for a (6th?) discard. That slot is consistently used for instant-speed removal, either an Anguished Unmaking or Go for the Throat.
This is my latest sideboard, I have swapped my 2x rest for the weary for Blessed Alliance, because Blessed is solid against bogles, bant eldrazi (opposing smashers and removing a 4/4 TKS and getting a draw), and against burn if they prevent your healing, you still get to make them sacrifice a creature. Many people seem to be making that change and after facing bogles both in paper and online within the past week I'm doing it as well.
Sometimes relics are just not enough against graveyard decks, so a 1-of of each grafdiggers and rest in peace are needed in the current meta.
Spellskite is an amazing sideboard card and until the SCG list, my list was the only one I had seen running one. Theres many matches where this card just ruins their day, and it's going to be sticking around for a while in the sideboard.
I've dropped anguished unmaking in the side for a ratchet bomb for a couple reasons. First, my local meta has a U/B mill player and ratchet bomb can take out multiple Ensnaring Bridges, and I both feel the need to keep E.Es for all the aggro decks we currently see, and keep a ratchet bomb to be able to hit CMC = 3 permanents. Ratchet Bomb is also our best out to Blood moon which is popping up more and more. You can count anguished unmaking out as an answer to Blood moon because the likelihood of you getting a swamp, plains, and anguished to remove it is extremely low.
Am I the only one that's really not liking Blight Herder in this deck? I know I haven't been playing it too long, but I've played against quite a variety of decks the past couple weeks, and I didn't like Blight Herder in any of them. It's the last card I want to cast, it sits in my hand for far too long, and sometimes I don't even want to process 2 cards. Seeing multiples in my hand at a time just feels awful. I'd rather have another Sorin, or even some more early game cards like a 5th discard spell, or Matter Reshaper, or Eldrazi Displacer, or just more Smashers.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/4z8160/bw_processors_sb_guide_modern/
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Wasteland Strangler
1 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Blight Herder
Spells - 19
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
1 Dismember
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land - 24
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Hallowed Moonlight
2 Stony Silence
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wrath of God
Congrats on the great finish. I really enjoy the archetype and think your list looks great. I read your write up on another forum and I appreciate that you take the time to give great feedback.
I was wondering moving forward what you plan to change about the deck. I was curious if theres any merit to playing a card like leyline of the void over relic. i see how relic is great at adding value but i know the modern master gurus say leyline is an upgrade in every way. i suppose this deck the relics are better but i wonder if it could keep up to a deck like dredge which seems like a deck thats here to stay and might just be faster then what relics can provide. i suppose collective brutality would get a little better if you played leylines as reduntant copies naturally are much worse then relics and you can just cash them in for effects off brutality.
i loved the inclusion of scullers and removing the smashers. did you find it difficult to cast scullers on time? did you feel 3 was the right number?
my last question is - Since the deck is more crotrolling compared to past lists do you think bitterblossoms fits the gameplan at all? It seems like a good turn 2 play for this deck. I also really like the idea of testing out whispers of emrakul and dip into delirium if bitterblossoms is good. the collective brutality could be crazy. far fetched but I enjoy the discussions.
cheers!!
So Leyline is certainly a more powerful card, but far less flexible, Relic has alot more play to it than it looks. Relic does a better job enabling processing because it can be drawn later and for a measly mana or 2 give you all the exile you need. Draw a card is also a rider I need on my otherwise dead in certain matchups maindeck card. Leyline is a consideration in the side for a heavy Dredge meta, but after talking to Ross Merriam it seems our matchup is already fine with the Relics. Most other cards in the sideboard have broad cross archetype application, Leyline is just too narrow to bring in often and thus not worth the space. I actually had 3 in my board the night before the Invi and cut them for 2 Surgicals and something for other matchups. I've since cut the 2 Surgicals for a single Rest in Peace, thus freeing up one more slot which I really really like. And you should never play a card to pitch to something like Brutality, it simply makes the downside of having it stuck in your hand mitigated a small percentage of the time. It may feel worse, but you can pitch a Relic and you're in no worse spot.
Scullers feel great at 3, I usually want one but the second has such diminishing marginal utility. However, a bear is a bear, so drawing 2 is fine. I could cast them on time usually, and if I couldn't its because I had Ghost Quarter or Eldrazi Temple, which naturally put me on a game plan where I don't necessarily need to cast an early Sculler, IE a fast Strangler and TKS on turns 2 and 3. And Ghost Quarter is really like a quarter of a colored source, its surprisingly common to Ghost Quarter yourself to cast colored spells. Usually I do that on turn 3 so that I can play another 3 mana worth of stuff the following turn, but sometimes turn 2 could be necessary.
The deck is very controlling but I don't like Bitterblossom for a few reasons, its very slow and we don't have Goyf's or Mistbinds or anything to synergise. The other is Lingering Souls is just a better card by a country mile, and between it and Blight Herder we have enough 1/1s running around. Whispers of Emrakul is a trap card, Hymn is rarely good past turn 2, and delirium is unattainable before 2. I play Legacy Jund and have a love/hate relationship with Hymn as is, making it worse certainly makes me ok with not ever playing it
1 spellskite
2 tidehollow sculler
2 wasteland strangler
2 eldrazi displacer
3 blight herder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Spells 22
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Liliana of the veil
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Collective Brutality
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Marsh Flats
3 Shambling Vent
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 Damnation
2 Rest for the Weary
1 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
1 Duress
1 Collective Brutality
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Memoricide
Creatures
Spellskite - at worst its a wall and 'welding jar' at best it puts the screws to certain decks in the format.
Displacer - the soft lock is real with both TKS and Tidehollow (make sure you stack your triggers right). It already has a solid body but its ability can shut down tons of decks and often make your swings unblockable.
Spells
I personally like the 3/2 split especially since i think there will be a fair amount of bant eldrazi running around
Surgical - its there to mise, provide a g-probe and turn on processing if we haven't drawn relic
Declaration - its been very promising in testing, if you go way back to the beginning of this thread i was testing utter end, but the low opportunity cost of 1W is too tempting to pass up, its whites cheap imitation of maelstrom pulse.
Collective Brutality - Card is a house in certain match ups like burn and infect other times is just ok but it has a lot of play thats why there is a second in the SB, its baby profane command.
Lands
We're at 11 Colorless sources, 15 Black sources and 15 White sources of which 3 come into play tapped. This also gives us a 43% chance to have ghost quarter against GR tron or Valakut, the molten pinnacle by T3. So according to Frank Karsten we're right above curve for everything; 14 sources for T1 @ 90% prob, 13 for T2, 12 for T3 and 11 for T4. Granted we do have 3 tap lands but their utility far out weights their negative.
Sideboard
Most everything is pretty standard except: Surgical, Collective Brutality, Ratchet Bomb & Memoricide.
Surgical - a personal favorite helps in a fair amount of situations and can be skill testing, similar to ghost quarter use it on the draw step.
Collective Brutality - I like 2 in the 75 split between MD & SB, again when its good(Burn/infect) its a amazing other times its so-so.
Ratchet bomb - this could be another damnation or flaying tendrills or even EE. While all those cards are often A+ to B+ in certain match ups this card provides a lot of flexibility while being a C+ contributor.
Memoricide - I wanted to dedicate a pure hate card for some of our worst match ups and the eldrazi mirror.
Below is the side boarding guide
It really sounds to me like this play is indicating that you are too light on BW sources--a perspective we've already discussed elsewhere--and I wonder if the utility of Ghost Quarter in the matches where you're using it against opponents really outweighs the matches where you are forced to use it on yourself.
I think I'm going to retire from posting my ideas for a while, since I have long worried that I was dominating this thread too heavily. I hope you'll take a moment to post up with results periodically in the future. Cheers; here's to good draws and shrewd plays! Thanks for your kind words, Beautox. If it weren't for your initiative, it seems likely to me that this deck would have disappeared altogether. I love me some B/W Modern action, but Processors was the first deck I played in that color mix that truly seemed ready to rumble with the rest of the format--and I wouldn't have been able to make it stick without your early efforts. Best of luck to you as well, and I look forward to reading about your experiences.
[EDIT] I will try to get to the primer this weekend and update it to reflect the SCG placement and other changes over the past couple of months. However, school is starting up for me (I teach) and time will become much more strained for me, so no promises. Please feel free to post up or PM me with suggestions if you have any.
So my post got lost somewhere in 'Preview', have to write everything all over again QQ
I played this deck yesterday at my LGS. It's my first time playing the deck in real life so potentionally made a ton of mistakes.
A couple of things I could use your thoughts on:
- I find myself having no cards in hand quite often, the deck doesn't really let you draw anything besides from cracking Relic. Do you guys have this too?
- Would Sea Gate Wreckage main board be an option to replace a Ghost Quarter/Vault of the Archangel to give some extra card draw?
- What you said Deadrift about more BW sources for successfull Sculler casts; I think you are right. I found myself having colorless mana quite some bit without access to both black and white. Would replacing a Ghost Quarter by a Godless Shrine be an option?
- Or, I haven't activated Vault of the Archangel a single game so I'm thinking of replacing this with a Godless Shrine. How are you guys experiencing Vault activations, do you do this occasionally or is it a rare sight for you as well?
- If you don't see a Relic the entire game I find the game is becoming quite hard since you will be lacking the Strangler/Herder activation most of the times. How do you go around with this?
- Really liking Collective Brutality! Discard + removal does its work really good
- Would Eternal Scourge have a place in this deck and if so what would you cut for it?
- Do you feel like more Matter Reshaper would be OK to play?
- Ghost Quartering your own land to fix colors, that sets you behind a land right? Is that really worth it as you are losing quite some tempo
- How do you feel about including 1-2 Oblivion Sower, extending the exile zone and potentially giving us some land in return, with a 5/8 body for 6? (Also I'm just in love with this card lol)
- Thinking of -1 Dismember and +1 Inquisition of Kozilek. Early game discard is most welcome
- Shambling Vent, nice!
PS: Deadrift please stay. From what I've read the last 2 weeks your input is valuable to all players playing the deck and using this forum to perfect it. I for one am really happy with your fundamented replies. Keep on the good work!
Hey Beatox, list looks good. I've found Surgical Extraction, Disenchant, Ratchet Bomb, and Memoricide to be underperformers, and Zealous Persecution and Damnation to be overperformers of the cards you have in your board.
DCteamup, I worry your mana is being hurt by cards like Cavern of Souls, which look enticing but actually don't help cast much. Flaying Tendrils is not worth the sideboard slot, as Deadrift pointed out it is only good against Abzan Coco (driven out of thge meta by Dredge hate), 8 Whack (Budget Deck), and Elves (which though it won the invitational, is not all that popular, and Wrath of God and Zealous are way better in the matchup anyway). Also I'd like to hear your reasoning on Hallowed Moonlight, what problem cards/archetypes does that answer?
I played BW Eldrazi to a Top 4 finish at an 19-player PPTQ this weekend. I didn't really take notes, so just reconstructing what I can.
vs Jeskai Control 2-1 [1-0]
OP: Lingering Souls, Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher
UP: 7 card hands
Notes: Game 1, I mulled to 6 on the play, but was able to deploy a few threats. He was a heavier planeswalker build than normal, with Nahiri, Ajani, andGideon Jura. I got him to 9 before he was able to stabilize off of a Supreme Verdict and Nahiri ult. Game 2, I mulled to 6 on the play again. Got an early Lingering Souls and he didn't have a sweeper. They go the distance. Game 3, I mull to 4(!), but he kept a 1-lander with Serum Visions on the play. Bottomed 2 on the Visions and still missed his land. He got it the next turn, but then missed his third land for several turns. I played Lingering Souls and Thought-Knot Seer. He revealed Nahiri, Ajani, and Gideon in hand. I took Ajani, as I thought it was his best way back in the game and he was so far away from 5 mana. He eventually got to 4 lands and minused Nahiri on TKS. He was still looking for Gideon mana, but didn't find it until he was at 1, and it was a fetchland.
vs Abzan 2-1 [2-0]
OP: Relic of Progenitus, Though-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher
He was the Flayer version of the deck, but Relic of Progenitus managed his graveyard, allowing Wasteland Strangler to pick off some guys. I ended game 1 at 20 life, with an early Thought-Knot Seer providing pressure. Game 2, he was on the mana denial plan, bringing in Fulminators and Tectonic Edge. I had some spirits, but he got a Scavenging Ooze down to gain some life and put a clock on while I drew blanks. Game 3, I got a quick Smasher down while he stumbled on mana and it ended very quickly.
vs GR Tron 0-2 [2-1]
OP: his Karn
UP: Getting paired down against Tron
Game 1, I drew two Ghost Quarters, but it just didn't matter. He had too many ways to dig for his pieces. I got him to 7, but he stuck a Karn and that was it. Game 2, I got him to 1, but he Nature's Claimed his Spellskite to go to 5, blew an O-Stone, and Karn'd me out once again.
vs Lantern Control 2-1 [3-1]
OP: Lingering Souls
I knew what I was in for after seeing him play next to me the previous round. Yuck. Game 1, I mulled to 6 and he got a quick Ensnaring Bridge, Lantern, Codex Shredder, and spellbombed me out in short order. Game 2, he mulled to 6. I went Lingering Souls into Reality Smasher while he bricked on mana. Game 3, I got him to 1 with a couple spirits and a Reality Smasher. He Bell'd and Shred'd several times and at the last possible moment found an Ensnaring Bridge. Then Spellskite backup, then Aether Grid. He started shooting me for 3 a turn. Down to 15, to 12, to 9. Then he draws and laughes. "Punished" he said, showing me a 1-of Thoughtseize that he had drawn and was unable to cast at 1 life, leaving him dead to spirits. He should have sniped them off with Aether Grid instead of going first at my life total. An exciting win, when I thought I was surely locked out of the game!
vs Burn 0-0-3 [3-1-1]
ID into top 8!
Top 8 archetypes:
Abzan vs UW Tron
Burn vs UG Infect
BG Infect vs BW Tokens
GR Tron vs BW Eldrazi
Quarterfinals:
vs GR Tron2-1
OP: Thoughtseize
Well, maybe I should have thought through that ID some more, as I get matched against the Tron deck that smashed me in swiss, and he is on the play. Game 1, he mulls to 6. I Thoughtseize him and see Sylvan Scrying, World Breaker, Wurmcoil Engine x2, and a Power-Plant. I take the Scrying and hope he doesn't draw into tron. I get some spirits down to chip away, but I don't have much pressure. He keeps hitting land drops up to 5. One more and he'll have Wurmcoil online. Brick, brick, brick! Got lucky there. Game 2, I got super cute and decided it would be a good idea to Ghost Quarter his land on turn 1 and hope he had his Forest in hand. It didn't work and he crushed me while I was effectively a turn behind. Game 3, he mulliganed and I went with the ol' fetch, shock, Thoughtseize line. He had 2 colorless lands, 2 Ancient Stirrings, a Chromatic Sphere, Sylvan Scrying, and Spellskite. I take the Sphere as his only way to make green. Then I follow it up with Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher to get win.
vs UW Tron 0-2
UP: My mana
Ugh, who made this top 8 bracket? This deck had the Gifts-Rites package for Elesh Norn & Iona, but also the Thopter-Sword combo. The games were uninteresting however, as I was stuck on two lands for forever in game 1 and had 7 lands but no colorless mana in game 2.
The UW Tron player wound up winning the event, defeating BG Infect in the finals (Elesh Norn OP).
Hi, thanks for your reply. Would you suggest swapping Caverns for Godless Shrine for example? I must say I didn't board in Flaying Tendrils as much as I would've expected so I will cut it and see how to proceed from there. Hallowed Moonlight I've put in as an anti Dredge/Abzan Evo/Chord/Coco/Nahiri/Aether Vial card. It fits the colors, is relatively cheap and draws us a card. Keeping 2 mana open isn't a rare sight with this deck, like for activating Shambling Vent, pathing, cracking relic etc.
Could you please also have a look at the questions/remarks I have posted and let me know your thoughts? I would very much appreciate your input.
Thanks
The only changes im making to the list will be to replace Liliana with 1 displacer. It's only because of budget that I'm making this swap. I also see displacer as more of a 6 drop than anything else but could come in handy if you need to be on a more aggressive plan and just run it out early. i like the 3/2 split on IoC Seize but that might be more of a metagame call. Also will try the declaration of stone over the dismember which was something that RidetheIduana wanted to do anyways which I believe might turn out to be a great choice. Lastly I'm cutting 1 vents for 1 shrine. this could be wrong but I'd like to have the ability to search a dual if I have a shrine in play or in hand already.
The fact that he came 9th at a large modern open is no joke and it was only tiebreakers that kept him out of top 8. Wish we could have seen coverage on this deck but I also like how this deck is under the radar as well. I love to play the decks that most do not. If this deck exploded in popularity it becomes less my style.
very interested to see how people do with this deck moving forward I for one and looking forward to the next modern game at my local store.
Deadmedix, I think that Lili/Displacer swap is fine, it's one I almost made right before the open. The Lili is definitely better, but it's close. And I stand by the full 4 Vents, especially because I usually want all of my fetches to get basics. But that swap should be fairly inconsequential, as would the IOK/Sieze. It's been a busy week so I've yet to try the Dec in Stone, but its a pretty obvious inclusion that I'm eager to test in the Dismember slot as you mentioned. Good luck at your next modern event!
Awesome ty again for your feedback!!
Since the majority of you lands are BW, I think you need to treat tidehollow as a 2 colored mana source. Therefore, you need at least 20 BW colored sources to reliably cast tidehollow on turn 2. I have been trying out tidehollow in my processor list (with 14 B and 14 W sources) and it has been a struggle to cast tidehollow at all some games. In my BW eldrazi midrange list ( http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-01-16-bw-eldrazi-midrange/ ; the sideboard is out of date) with 17 B and 17 W sources, it is still rough to cast tidehollow. I used to run liliana in that list (you can check the bw eldrazi midrange forum posts in my sig for why I cut it). The fact is, until wizards actually prints a bw fast land or fetch-able colorless sources the mana base for BW will be rough.
I am not the biggest fan of surgical. I really like the card, but everytime I play it I am underwhelmed.
Eldrazi displacer is a great card that really helps out against tokens and you can flicker thought-knot to mill their deck if you are in a stalemate. I like to flicker thought-knot on their draw step when I have a decent board presence to make sure things do not get out of hand.
Blessed alliance has been great for me in the side and collective brutality is downright amazing (but is bad against tron). I posted some comments a few pages ago about some of the new cards.
I would recommend a worship or two in the sideboard. This card flat out wins games against wide decks that we have no business winning. Merfolk, for example, typically has one card in their 75 that can deal with it. It is also great against: elves (if you can live until turn 4), burn, zoo, bw tokens, and a lot of other decks.
I also recommend running a celestial purge in the side to deal with blood moon, liliana, and nahari. The new mardu control deck with bob's, emurakul, and nahari can be a difficult match. Nahari is a big pain to deal with since she has such a high starting loyalty.
Good luck at the PPTQ or GP or whatever it is!
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
At a 17 person FNM with the list, I ended up going 3-0-1 (drew going into round 4 to both tie for first), having my best results with the deck yet. The lower curve and added removal really were key in some games. I also had one of those nights where my opening hands and draws were on-point, such as game two and three against bogles having E.E in the opening hand, and facing a ponza deck that misplayed turn 1 and 2 and delayed a possible T3 blood moon allowing me to drop a smasher in before he got a T4 blood moon. The lone smasher eventually swung for the win. But I don't think it was just luck, I think the main 60 Deaddrift has put together is about as optimized as a smasher version can be. The following day I was in a small 8 person 3-rounder, and went 2-1 for second place. The last match was against Jund, and we had a very close game 3 where he won the topdeck war, I'd say both events were a big success and I've shifted my mtgo list to be very similar to my paper list and will hopefully be seeing a bump up from my usual 3-2 finish in league play online.
Everyone's been raving about Collective Brutality, and I had some success with it when I tested it in the sideboard one night at FNM, So I've decided to try and add one in the main 60 for a few tournies and see how it goes. The card I trimmed was one copy of Mind Stone. I chose mind stone because of times where I've had both mind stones in hand early in the game. This change should speed the deck up a tiny bit, and make those situations where the deck opens very slowly less common. Also having added a reshaper recently, it sort of alleviates the loss of a cantrip. I've also wanted to get back to 5 discard for a while, and I like that the 5th discard comes with so much extra utility. Utility cards are great in this deck.
Here is my current 75, for the past week or so I've been working on some sideboard notes, trying to get a more solid idea of what goes in and out for each matchup. If anyone has a list similar to mine and wants tips/discussion/to critique my In/Out choices, let me know and Ill throw the notes up here. Although I will have to go through and update them with the change to Collective Brutality as that's something I've decided to to today.
The sculler + Herder list makes total sense, you use scullers to exile and allow your processing to go off more consistently. I can see why the list runs no smashers and instead focuses on going all-in on processor value. Personally I don't see myself playing in that style, because I prefer to turn the corner with smasher as well as have the option of playing as the aggressor when needed. I'm not particularly a fan of Sculler because it can die so easily and give their card right back (unless you quickly process), and I'm not a fan of Blight Herder because it is easily removed and paying (5) to have 3 1/1s is really underwhelming, whether the herder gets countered or removed. Smasher sticks on the board way better, and the fact that they have similar clocks (with 3 1/1s along with the Herder) isn't really giving smasher credit for having haste. Being able to attack with it the turn you play it is really good, and has saved me so many times against Nahiri. I don't think everyone should necessarily move over to this Herder version because of the results, I believe that since this deck is played very little at large tournament levels, it has very few chances to make a good run. Basically the small representation is surely to lead to less results. Having a solid outting takes a combination of a good decklist, a very good pilot, a bit of the heart of the cards, and a field that is favorable to the deck you brought. Just because the Herder version was the first one to put up results since the creation of the deck (Sowers, Newlamog, and Eye of Ugin), doesn't mean a smasher deck couldn't do just as well. I'll be sticking with smashers unless I see this Herder + Sculler version blowing up and having more impressive results in the coming months.
I can address a few of your comments. Vault of the Archangel is an insane card and needs to stay. Just having the threat of that ability to activate on your opponents turn can and will deny them from attacking into deathtouch 1/1 spirits or scions. There's situations where you've got a creature or other spell in your hand, but it's better to activate vault for the lifelink or deathtouch. It eats up land hate, protecting your Eldrazi Temples. The activation might not happen very often, but just the possibility or threat of it means its literally our best colorless producing utility land.
I have definitely had games where I've been praying for a T1 or T2 relic draw to enable my strangler's processor value. I'm sure the Sculler version alleviates this somewhat. The best way to avoid this is to pay close attention to opening hands and their synergy (or lack thereof), and to be content with a vanilla strangler or herder from time to time.
Most of the people posting of late have tried Eternal Scourge in their list, and I think the consensus is that at the end of the day, the recurring didn't really effect many games as they were decided too quickly, or it just was a boring vanilla 3/3 in a format filled with creatures that do more than have power and toughness.
Matter Reshaper is pretty solid and also fights for Scullers for slots in the main 60 in the Sculler + Herder version. If you go with no Scullers and Smashers, you could run 2-3 Reshapers.
Oblivion Sower is literally the card that got me to make this deck, but it was used because the lands were needed to ramp into Newlamog. There is just very little need for those lands when Sower is already at the top of your curve, and a 5/8 body nice but also a bit overkill for modern, smashers are already some of the biggest creatures played. And it's easily dealt with by removal, meaning you spent 6 mana to get extra lands you didn't need.
I would advise against trimming Dismember for a (6th?) discard. That slot is consistently used for instant-speed removal, either an Anguished Unmaking or Go for the Throat.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
This is my latest sideboard, I have swapped my 2x rest for the weary for Blessed Alliance, because Blessed is solid against bogles, bant eldrazi (opposing smashers and removing a 4/4 TKS and getting a draw), and against burn if they prevent your healing, you still get to make them sacrifice a creature. Many people seem to be making that change and after facing bogles both in paper and online within the past week I'm doing it as well.
Sometimes relics are just not enough against graveyard decks, so a 1-of of each grafdiggers and rest in peace are needed in the current meta.
Spellskite is an amazing sideboard card and until the SCG list, my list was the only one I had seen running one. Theres many matches where this card just ruins their day, and it's going to be sticking around for a while in the sideboard.
I've dropped anguished unmaking in the side for a ratchet bomb for a couple reasons. First, my local meta has a U/B mill player and ratchet bomb can take out multiple Ensnaring Bridges, and I both feel the need to keep E.Es for all the aggro decks we currently see, and keep a ratchet bomb to be able to hit CMC = 3 permanents. Ratchet Bomb is also our best out to Blood moon which is popping up more and more. You can count anguished unmaking out as an answer to Blood moon because the likelihood of you getting a swamp, plains, and anguished to remove it is extremely low.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR