I initially though this was right, but now i'm thinking cutting "crappy cards" like scrabbling claws isn't what we want to do. We want to exile as many lands as we can from our opponent's graveyard to make oblivion sower better. I wouldn't be comfortable relying only on relics and bog to do that.
I don't think you've actually cast Oblivion Sower before if you're thinking they're relevant. Sower triggers when cast, and mills the opponent for 4, then gets any of those lands, that's it. What's already in the graveyard or in exile has no effect on the lands Sower gets.
"When you cast Oblivion Sower, target opponent exiles the top four cards of his or her library, then you may put any number of land cards that player owns from exile onto the battlefield under your control."
I've cast plenty of oblivion sowers. Have you cast oblivion sower before? Probably, but they were probably worst than what they should be.
Very excited this deck got bumped up to Tier two, just as excited to see one of the thorns in this decks side get banned(amulet), sadly twin was a good match up for us.
Very excited this deck got bumped up to Tier two, just as excited to see one of the thorns in this decks side get banned(amulet), sadly twin was a good match up for us.
Ban is bad, because with twin gone, tron takes its place as the biggest deck in the format. Fighting through Karns and wurmcoil engines is not what I want to do with this deck.
Interesting. Mostly been playing on Xmage, not sure if that trigger is working correctly, or if I just haven't seen very many lands exiled for other reasons.
The ban is what it is. Tron isn't a horrible match up, a challenge sure but not horrible, just means possibly upping GQ to 4 MD to combat that puts you over 50% by turn 3. Wurmcoil is answered cleanly in this build with Path. Its Karn that is the issue, and even a resolved Karn isn't instascoop. With this announcement though Warping Wail might loses a little bit of its luster since Snap, Deceiver Exarch and Skite made up 3 of the top 10 most played creatures in the format. Affinty, Burn, Infect and Boggles will likely steadily rise to combat tron so I still think MD spellskite will go a long way. The fear against twin was them having both blood moon and the combo but with the combo gone while still having Maps, it might be correct to now run a full playset of Caves and move beyond fetches.
The ban is what it is. Tron isn't a horrible match up, a challenge sure but not horrible, just means possibly upping GQ to 4 MD to combat that puts you over 50% by turn 3. Wurmcoil is answered cleanly in this build with Path. Its Karn that is the issue, and even a resolved Karn isn't instascoop. With this announcement though Warping Wail might loses a little bit of its luster since Snap, Deceiver Exarch and Skite made up 3 of the top 10 most played creatures in the format. Affinty, Burn, Infect and Boggles will likely steadily rise to combat tron so I still think MD spellskite will go a long way. The fear against twin was them having both blood moon and the combo but with the combo gone while still having Maps, it might be correct to now run a full playset of Caves and move beyond fetches.
The ban is what it is. Tron isn't a horrible match up, a challenge sure but not horrible, just means possibly upping GQ to 4 MD to combat that puts you over 50% by turn 3. Wurmcoil is answered cleanly in this build with Path. Its Karn that is the issue, and even a resolved Karn isn't instascoop. With this announcement though Warping Wail might loses a little bit of its luster since Snap, Deceiver Exarch and Skite made up 3 of the top 10 most played creatures in the format. Affinty, Burn, Infect and Boggles will likely steadily rise to combat tron so I still think MD spellskite will go a long way. The fear against twin was them having both blood moon and the combo but with the combo gone while still having Maps, it might be correct to now run a full playset of Caves and move beyond fetches.
At least in my experience, 4 GQ is still not really enough - having Surgical Extraction or something like that is what really makes the matchup feel reasonable. It's a shame that those cards are so horrible versus linear aggro.
Br gets better with twin ban, crumble to dust for tron (and the mirror), and red sweepers for aggressive decks and artifact hate
IMO, what BR really needs to do to be good versus Tron is to have Lightning Bolt and Reality Smashers to race because BR is so horrible versus a resolved Wurmcoil Engine. Also, I'm not sure if you can cast Anger of the Gods in this deck on time because 1RR is really hard.
The ban is what it is. Tron isn't a horrible match up, a challenge sure but not horrible, just means possibly upping GQ to 4 MD to combat that puts you over 50% by turn 3. Wurmcoil is answered cleanly in this build with Path. Its Karn that is the issue, and even a resolved Karn isn't instascoop. With this announcement though Warping Wail might loses a little bit of its luster since Snap, Deceiver Exarch and Skite made up 3 of the top 10 most played creatures in the format. Affinty, Burn, Infect and Boggles will likely steadily rise to combat tron so I still think MD spellskite will go a long way. The fear against twin was them having both blood moon and the combo but with the combo gone while still having Maps, it might be correct to now run a full playset of Caves and move beyond fetches.
At least in my experience, 4 GQ is still not really enough - having Surgical Extraction or something like that is what really makes the matchup feel reasonable. It's a shame that those cards are so horrible versus linear aggro.
This exactly mirrors my own view of the Tron match. They are too consistent for GQ to be enough by itself.
In the right deck I can see Displacer doing serious work, but for 6 mana I'd rather be casting a Sower. It matters much less with the banning of Twin, but it could provide some hilarity against Wurmcoils. Might be SB suitable .
Has Spellskite gotten worse now that twin is history? Is 1 copy enough for the odd infect/bogles MU?
So I don't really play Eldrazi, but I know that it is going to start really dominating, so I wanted to know how you guys' Living End match up is. Can anybody tell me how the games go?
So I don't really play Eldrazi, but I know that it is going to start really dominating, so I wanted to know how you guys' Living End match up is. Can anybody tell me how the games go?
Relic of progenitus/scrabbling claws/nihil spellbomb/bojuka bog = gg. This is how the game go any deck relying on grave is in a really bad spot against us
Pretty much like this. With us having so much exile and MB graveyard hate, strategies like yours and Dredgevine really hurt. We don't even really care about general-purpose cards thy involve graveyards like Snapcasters or Goyfs.
What do you think about Eldrazi Displacer? He works really good with Wasteland Strangler and Thought-Knot Seer. Too slow?
I think it's a great SB card for aggro decks. Blinking blinkmoth nexus, inkmoth nexus, wild nacatl, merfolk, etc. Now that I think about it, it might help against tron too since it stops eldarzi and wurmcoils...
I just created a mtgsalvation account so I could get more involved with this topic. I have been watching and messing around with my own deck testing and had some fairly consistent results. current deck looks like this:
Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Waste
2 Plains
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
Spells:
4 Lingering Souls
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Warping Wail
Sideboard
2 Disenchant
1 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Languish
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Stony Silence
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Celestial Purge
So a little explanation of my choices.
Lands:
I have only two eye of ugin because I don't want to be drawing them that much due to legendary, also I can always fetch one up with map. Same reason for only 2 urborg. As you can see from list, there are no marsh flats. I have never missed not having b/w t1. With the extra caves of kolios and 2 BS mires along with basics i never seemed to run into problems and when I have I have always have alternative t1-2 plays.
I am considering at least 1 shambling vent but to be honest I dont like the mana sink for it and rather keep mana open for other stuff.
Creatures:
4 BHerders, its easy to cast/process and easy 4 bodies online. 2 matter reshapers, keeping the idea of a t2 body that replaces itself. This guy is totally amzing, it has ramped me like a courser, replaced itself, or put artifacts into play. 3 TKS, i found 4 too many but 3 was just right, no need to explain why these are so good (body, exile, hand disruption). 1 Eldrazi Displacer,is good in many situations to bounce, tap stuff, or keep using ETB of TKS, one copy is enough i think. 4 wasteland strangler, easy to process but you dont have to always because its a t2 play that will need an answer. lastly 1 Ulagmog for the finisher.
Spells:
4 lingering souls, I didnt use this for a long time but after doing so i will always keep a play set in. The value is amazing and being flying it prevents a clogged up land game which could be clogged with your eldrazi and scions holding back opponents forces. 2 exp maps, because I only run 2 eyes 2 urborgs. 4 Relics, amazing card on turn one, not just for the processing for Stranglers and processors but also for gy hate so my smallest creature at t2 will be bigger than their Tarmogoyf, the draw is also pretty good at times. 4 Paths, for obvious reasons. 4 inquisitions, this is ok but i have been considering lately to go 2 IK and 2 MB Surgical Extraction, because twin is no longer a threat and IOK isnt epic vs tron, although Surgical Extraction will be with QG (3mb 1sb), remember Im running 3 TKS mb so that gives me still 5 hand disruption spells. 2 warping wail, I do like the versatility of this spell, countering board wipes, stopping spell fetches, exiling the odd annoying thing such as spellkite, at worst its a ramp/scion in play, to protect the big guy from a lilliana.
SideBoard:
all fairly self explanatory although i would add that if 2 surgical extractions go to MB then in the 2 slot in SB I would probably put in revoke existence because I am expecting an increase in blood moon.
Welcome to the forums! As a heads up, if you put [ deck ][ /deck ] tags with your deck in them (and no spaces in the tags of course) you'll make your deck show up like this:
As for your list itself, I'm not so much of a fan of having zero Oblivion Sowers. They're easily one of our best creatures in the deck since they have a large body, can ramp us with opponent's lands/provide a good chunk of processing fuel, and can come down as early as turn 3. How have Warping Wail and Matter Reshaper done for you?
How many stranglers are people on? I'm currently at 3 but have not yet finalized my list post-OGW yet. I could easily see myself dropping them down to 2.
Also, I could use some Sideboarding advice. Unfortunately my local meta makes for a very poor environment for Eldrazi, with Tron, Infect, Boggles, Merfolk, and Affinity all pretty popular. I mean just my last Wednesday modern event saw a turnout of 1 Living End, 1 Burn, and 2 each of Boggles, Merfolk, Infect, and Tron... It's painful at times My current SB is this:
With a meta like the one I talked about above, how would you all recommend I adjust my SB to improve my matchups with so many fast decks running around?
Two tournament reports here. One is TNM and one is FNM.
TNM is capped at 3 rounds while FNM depends on attendance.
TNM Round 1 vs. Jund. 1-2. In game 2, I started with a 2 land hand and just drew too many lands. I didn't have Eye though. In game 3, I kept another 2 land hand and hit land number 3, despite cycling 2 Relic of Progenitus, on turn 6. It was too late and although I nearly stabilized, Kologhan's Command and Lightning Bolt finished me off.
Round 2 vs. UR Twin. He draws a card for turn 6 and immediately slams it, a Breeding Pool. Then he casts Twin on his Deceiver Exarch. I do Path to Exile because I smell Dispel. He does Dispel. I let it resolve, then do Slaughter Pact. He has another Dispel. That darn Breeding Pool (6th mana source on turn 6). I grind him out in the next game and he can't find Twin. I only have Slaughter Pact and Go for the Throat in hand. In the final game, I keep a 2 land hand. I get punished by him doing turn 3 Blood Moon. At this point, I have no basics in play, nor Disenchant or Celestial Purge from the SB in my hand. I am basically praying to draw these cards, although I do have Slaughter Pact and a Swamp if I draw another land. He Twins me 3 turns later when I don't draw a 3rd land. I briefly consider casting Slaughter Pact anyway and then losing to my Pact trigger, but decide not to. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Zoo. 2-0. Lots of removal in our deck. I draw a good curve.
I finish 1-2.
FNM. Round 1 vs. Zoo. This guy is missing some of the fetches and shocks, so his deck is slightly awkward. Zoo is a terrific matchup for us and this makes it easier. Both games after doing Inquisition of Kozilek, I do removal on a creature when he does Ghor-Clan Rampager Bloodrush. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BUG. This deck relies a bit on the graveyard, so game 1 was pretty easy. Game 2, he got turn 3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and I didn't have Celestial Purge in hand. My first draw was my Ulamog and he got me low on life before I cast it and came back pretty easily. In between he had some removal for my creatures, as did I for his creatures. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. 4 Color Bring to Light. I didn't have much against him, but he didn't have the Scapeshift for 2 consecutive turns, nor Cryptic Command to prolong it. I get there with Blight Herder and Oblivion Sowers. In the next game, I don't have much again and he does Bring to Light/Scapeshift. Unlike the first game, I didn't have Ghost Quarter to potentially mess up his plan by killing the Plains. In the last game, I do turn 2, 3, and 4 Wasteland Strangler. The Aggro is real. I get him low and he blocks with a Meddling Mage naming Oblivion Sower. Then I cast Oblivion Sower. He has 1 or 2 (I don't remember now) turns to kill me, but doesn't find it. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. I lent a deck to this guy and he offered me an ID. I took it. 0-0-3.
Round 5 vs. 4 Color Gifts. His deck relies nearly completely on the graveyard, so this was pretty easy. A Damnation in game 1 slowed me down, but I had more pressure in hand. In the next game, he had a lot of removal, but I drew Eye of Ugin and ground him out, getting card advantage every turn, despite my Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger being Path to Exiled. 2-0.
I finish 4-0-1, only 2nd to my opponent from Round 4, who beat a 4-0 Twin player in Round 5.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Read oblivion sower please.
"When you cast Oblivion Sower, target opponent exiles the top four cards of his or her library, then you may put any number of land cards that player owns from exile onto the battlefield under your control."
I've cast plenty of oblivion sowers. Have you cast oblivion sower before? Probably, but they were probably worst than what they should be.
Ban is bad, because with twin gone, tron takes its place as the biggest deck in the format. Fighting through Karns and wurmcoil engines is not what I want to do with this deck.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I think 4 Marsh Flats is the right choice
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Br gets better with twin ban, crumble to dust for tron (and the mirror), and red sweepers for aggressive decks and artifact hate
Has Spellskite gotten worse now that twin is history? Is 1 copy enough for the odd infect/bogles MU?
BRG Living End
G Elves
UB Zombie Hunt
Pretty much like this. With us having so much exile and MB graveyard hate, strategies like yours and Dredgevine really hurt. We don't even really care about general-purpose cards thy involve graveyards like Snapcasters or Goyfs.
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
I think it's a great SB card for aggro decks. Blinking blinkmoth nexus, inkmoth nexus, wild nacatl, merfolk, etc. Now that I think about it, it might help against tron too since it stops eldarzi and wurmcoils...
Welcome to the forums! As a heads up, if you put [ deck ][ /deck ] tags with your deck in them (and no spaces in the tags of course) you'll make your deck show up like this:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Waste
2 Plains
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
4 Blight Herder
2 Matter Reshaper
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Wasteland Strangler
1 Eldrazi Displacer
Spells:
4 Lingering Souls
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Warping Wail
2 Disenchant
1 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Languish
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Rest for the Weary
2 Stony Silence
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Celestial Purge
As for your list itself, I'm not so much of a fan of having zero Oblivion Sowers. They're easily one of our best creatures in the deck since they have a large body, can ramp us with opponent's lands/provide a good chunk of processing fuel, and can come down as early as turn 3. How have Warping Wail and Matter Reshaper done for you?
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
Also, I could use some Sideboarding advice. Unfortunately my local meta makes for a very poor environment for Eldrazi, with Tron, Infect, Boggles, Merfolk, and Affinity all pretty popular. I mean just my last Wednesday modern event saw a turnout of 1 Living End, 1 Burn, and 2 each of Boggles, Merfolk, Infect, and Tron... It's painful at times My current SB is this:
2 Celestial Purge
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Ruin Processor
2 Spellskite
With a meta like the one I talked about above, how would you all recommend I adjust my SB to improve my matchups with so many fast decks running around?
WB Eldrazi Processors BW
Legacy:
WUBRGLandless DredgeGRBUW
EDH:
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothGB
WUBrago, King Eternal (Budget!)UW
TNM is capped at 3 rounds while FNM depends on attendance.
TNM
Round 1 vs. Jund. 1-2. In game 2, I started with a 2 land hand and just drew too many lands. I didn't have Eye though. In game 3, I kept another 2 land hand and hit land number 3, despite cycling 2 Relic of Progenitus, on turn 6. It was too late and although I nearly stabilized, Kologhan's Command and Lightning Bolt finished me off.
Round 2 vs. UR Twin. He draws a card for turn 6 and immediately slams it, a Breeding Pool. Then he casts Twin on his Deceiver Exarch. I do Path to Exile because I smell Dispel. He does Dispel. I let it resolve, then do Slaughter Pact. He has another Dispel. That darn Breeding Pool (6th mana source on turn 6). I grind him out in the next game and he can't find Twin. I only have Slaughter Pact and Go for the Throat in hand. In the final game, I keep a 2 land hand. I get punished by him doing turn 3 Blood Moon. At this point, I have no basics in play, nor Disenchant or Celestial Purge from the SB in my hand. I am basically praying to draw these cards, although I do have Slaughter Pact and a Swamp if I draw another land. He Twins me 3 turns later when I don't draw a 3rd land. I briefly consider casting Slaughter Pact anyway and then losing to my Pact trigger, but decide not to. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Zoo. 2-0. Lots of removal in our deck. I draw a good curve.
I finish 1-2.
FNM.
Round 1 vs. Zoo. This guy is missing some of the fetches and shocks, so his deck is slightly awkward. Zoo is a terrific matchup for us and this makes it easier. Both games after doing Inquisition of Kozilek, I do removal on a creature when he does Ghor-Clan Rampager Bloodrush. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BUG. This deck relies a bit on the graveyard, so game 1 was pretty easy. Game 2, he got turn 3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and I didn't have Celestial Purge in hand. My first draw was my Ulamog and he got me low on life before I cast it and came back pretty easily. In between he had some removal for my creatures, as did I for his creatures. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. 4 Color Bring to Light. I didn't have much against him, but he didn't have the Scapeshift for 2 consecutive turns, nor Cryptic Command to prolong it. I get there with Blight Herder and Oblivion Sowers. In the next game, I don't have much again and he does Bring to Light/Scapeshift. Unlike the first game, I didn't have Ghost Quarter to potentially mess up his plan by killing the Plains. In the last game, I do turn 2, 3, and 4 Wasteland Strangler. The Aggro is real. I get him low and he blocks with a Meddling Mage naming Oblivion Sower. Then I cast Oblivion Sower. He has 1 or 2 (I don't remember now) turns to kill me, but doesn't find it. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Affinity. I lent a deck to this guy and he offered me an ID. I took it. 0-0-3.
Round 5 vs. 4 Color Gifts. His deck relies nearly completely on the graveyard, so this was pretty easy. A Damnation in game 1 slowed me down, but I had more pressure in hand. In the next game, he had a lot of removal, but I drew Eye of Ugin and ground him out, getting card advantage every turn, despite my Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger being Path to Exiled. 2-0.
I finish 4-0-1, only 2nd to my opponent from Round 4, who beat a 4-0 Twin player in Round 5.
3 Godless Shrine
2 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Temple of Silence
2 Shambling Vents
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Path to Exile
2 Go for the Throat
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Lingering Souls
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scrabbling Claws
1 All is Dust
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Duress
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Spellskite
2 Damnation
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)