Is Languish really the way to go after OGW? I would think it immediately gets replaced by Flaying Tendrils... Languish can kill TKS and Strangler whereas Tendrils just kills Strangler.
The problem is you need to kill 3/3's. You don't want to topdeck Tendrils against Elves and they have 2 Lords in play and you are boned. Languish or Damnation takes care of both.
Is Languish really the way to go after OGW? I would think it immediately gets replaced by Flaying Tendrils... Languish can kill TKS and Strangler whereas Tendrils just kills Strangler.
Basically what Exatraz stated. Languish is the closest thing we got to a reprint of damnation, with our biggest creatures actually able to survive the languish.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'd love a Toxic Deluge, but since that can't be used here, I think I'll stick with 1x damnation, 1x explosives and 1x all is dust. If I'm cutting any of them, it shall be the all is dust most likely, due to being the slowest. It has certain uses vs planeswalkers and some random enchatment, but since we need help with the fast stuff, I'd likely trim that one.
Personally I don't like explosives. We can only do 2 CMC or less and that isn't good enough in my mind. If we could hit 3 (for things like Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Liliana, Detention Sphere, all the elf lords and Ezuri, and all the other great 3 drops) then I'd be for it. I am only running 2 Zealous Conscripts which does work against a lot of the X/1's in fish and elves. It also can help us trade with our lingering souls tokens with X/3's and if you do it before you pop a relic, you kill goyfs.
I do like ratchet bomb for that "I need to blow up random target X". Honestly my favorite sweeper is All is Dust though. It's so one sided that it has won me a couple games (I remember a BW tokens match where both games were decided because of an all is dust. They were just getting wide enough to buy themselves a few turns with Sorin in play. I ripped Dust off the top, swept the board and then cracked in for huge amounts of damage. Finishing them off the following turn. All is Dust is also a fantastic answer against Keranos, Planeswalkers and Boggles.
Explosives can kill a blood moon. Ratchet bomb feels slow most of the time, and -2/-2 doesn't seem enough. I had a Zealous in my side last wednesday, which I cut. Doesn't kill anything in burn, isn't great vs elves due to so many lords, same problem against merfolk. BW is pretty hard to cast turn 2 reliably.
Explosives can only kill a Blood Moon in our deck if we have both basics out. Not that I really care about it because it hurts them as well. I just don't think it has enough versatility since typically we can only set it to 2. I haven't really had a problem with Zealous conscripts and it does kill things in burn when you have Lingering Souls or Blight Herder Tokens. It literally lets your 1/1's kill 3/3's.
If I have 1/1s and mana open, I either got to 3 lands for lingering or blight and have both colors for zealous persecution. That is generally a good enough spot. In that case, explosives for 1 is also possible, and not necessarily bad. From my games, zealous is too hard to cast and not always that good. I'd rather have drown in sorrow/ flaying tendrils if I want cmc 3, or damnation for cmc 4. Ratchet bomb just feels slow vs elves. I kinda want to t3 play and crack, while doing stuff turn 2. Also, keep in mind how bad it is off the top vs Explosives
I mean it's ok.. I don't think anything is "great" right there. If we had a -2/-2 for 2 I'd be a lot happier. As it stands I'm still meh. I think maybe 2 generic kill spells go in that spot (like Go for the Throat) when we get Warping Wail.
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
Game 1: Kept a 2 lander when I shouldn't of couldn't get past 3-4 mana for the longest time and slowly died to a lone doomed traveler with blood artist and cutthroat on the board so removal was pointless.
Game 2: Really grindy game but eventually I got there with 8 life left and landed a deaths hold and he scooped.
Game 3: Turn 0 Leyline, auto scoop. I felt bad, for I knew him well and he's a nice guy.
Game 1: Again mulled to oblivion with stuck on 2-3 lands he natural draws tron eventually and lands Karn followed by Ugin, into Ulamog. Scoop.
Game 2: Again stuck on 4 Mana this time but Karn into Conduit of Ruin into Ulamog seals the deal again.
-1 Doomblade
-1 Dismember
-1 Damnation
-1 All of Dust
+2 Duress
+2 Stony Silence
Round 3: Mono R Burn
Game 1: Couldn't get there and drew into way too much burn for me to live.
Game 2: Grindy game where he kept a risky hand and stalled out long enough for me to get the herder beats.
Game 3: Now HERE is where I lived the decks ABSOLUTE DREAM! I am at 9 life with 2 cards in my hand: Path and Blight Herder I have 6 mana available he empties his hand and casts 2 suspended rift bolts. At first I was like: well... butts. I then pray for a top decked leyline so I can cast it, didn't get it but then I realize: wait a sec... I can put them from exile into the grave and make them fizzle! So I do that and explain the interaction with processing suspended cards and is blown away by it but takes it lightly and we have a good laugh as he bricks on lands and get the 7 power beats. We shake hands and have a good laugh at the blow out.
This made my night.
+1 Weary
+3 Leyline
+2 Purge
+2 Duress
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Damnation
-1 All is Dust
-1 Kozilek
-2 Ulamog
Round 4: Abzan Human Tribal
Game 1: Again mulled to 5 and stalled on 3 mana, he got his human beats on got too many dudes for my 1 for 1 removal to handle.
Game 2: Kept a 4 lander on 7 card hand and slowly grinded my life away but I managed to 1 for 1 more effectivlely as well as make enough souls to chump and grind our his guys, eventually blight herder and sower got their beats after I cursed him with a death's hold.
Game 3: A much closer game which may been his game but he used a thoughtseize on a damnation and not on ulamog when he could of duress'd it away instead but the same thing happened with me blocking with souls and 1 for 1'ing him slowly and cast my 2nd ulamog which I eye'd for and that was that.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
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Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
Congratulations on a strong showing Darth Bunny! After your success w/ your current list I'm curious, what kind of changes do you think you'll want to make, if any, post OGW?
@darth bunny: What cards do you think you didn't like? What did you feel over performed and underperformed? What changes would you bring?
Damnation surprisingly under performed. Granted, it was usually because it was discarded or countered, but the one game where it really would have helped, I found myself stuck on 1 swamp without access to a second black source.Lingering Souls and Blight Herders were amazing, helping me race or block.
Celestial purge was also underwhelming since I didn't face any burn, anything running Liliana of the Veil is almost a bye in most matches (mirror the exception), and I have more than enough removal/discard to handle twin. I would probably trade the purges out for duress.
Speaking of changes, I went back to GP Oakland for a smaller Swiss on Sunday. My list was the same except I took out the damnations for a newly acquired spellskite and all is dust. The former I opened from a draft on Saturday and the latter I found at a pretty good price while walking around the vendors, so I was eager to try out my new toys:
Match 1: Affinity
G1 - He overruns me with little robots and flying manlands,then burns me out. I have a dead go for the throat in my hand the whole game. Second time my choice of removal has hurt me (first time was against infect and it's manlands).
G2 - Similar game, but I have the disenchants and ghost quarters to slow him down. I eventually stabilize with lingering souls and blight herder.
G3 - He has me on the backfoot as he dumps his hand, but he begins running out of gas as I chump with spirit tokens and wasteland stranglers. Then he casts day's undoing. Oh god. Luck is with me, as my new 7 contains a stony silence. Suddenly, most of his cards are blank. However, he somehow finds three master of etherium and suddenly I'm at 2 facing lethal. The only thing saving me is that his inkmoth nexus deals damage in the form of poison counters rather than damage.
I play eye of ugin, although I'm unsure (I think I did?) if I played my land drop for the turn. My opponent didn't seem to care (or notice?), even though it was a tense game. For future reference, do I call a judge on myself? I fetch Ulamog, and he exiles two of the masters. My opponent concedes after that.
Record: 1-0
Match 2 - Merfolk
G1 - He has some early fish, but no lords. He does spreading seas my only temple. I have the time to set up a board of eldrazi and spirits, but he eventually lands a master of waves and a master of pearls. He swings in with what he thinks is unblockable lethal, but I GQ my own island, a move he doesn't see coming. My eldrazi block his merfolk and suddenly the game is completely flipped on its head in my favor. He tries to grind it out, but he eventually scoops.
G2 - I path his lords and his remaining fish can't stop my eldrazi horde.
Record: 2-0
Match 3 - Twin
G1 - I double inquisition him and he loses his cantrips. I slow grind him, constantly holding back removal so that he can't suddenly combo off. Relic keeps his graveyard empty so his snapcasters can't generate any card advantage for him.
G2 - Same as G1, except he kept a hand with two twins and one creature that I discard.
Record: 3-0
Match 4 - Infect (against the same one on Saturday!)
G1 - I have him completely on the backfoot with double inquisitions, double lingering souls, and double GQ. I stupidly attack with my spirit tokens while he has an inkmoth in play. He attacks with the inkmoth and I attempt to GQ it. He gives it shroud. I could actiatve the second GQ in response, but I forget for a split second and the inkmoth resolves. He pumps it for lethal and once again I lose a game I was winning. Against the same infect player with the same deck. I'm such a good player.
Board In - 2 Disenchant; 1 surgical extraction; Board Out - 2 Expedition Map, 1 oblivion sower
G2 - I inquisition and he has 1 noble hierarch, 1 spellskite, 1 blighted agent, 1 glister elf, 1 forest, 1 inkmoth, 1 groundswell. It's a perfect hand for him, but I discard the elf and continue with the match. Still, I draw the removal I need to remove spellskite and keep his infect creatures from killing me. I finally learn from my previous games and pass priority to him every attack step before playing my own removal so that he can't just give them shroud in response. Eventually, spirit tokens take the win for me.
G3 - He attacks with blighted agent pumped with noble hierarch every turn and I don't draw the removal to stop it.
Record: 3-1.
Match 5 - Tron
I'm very greedy and we play instead of taking the draw. I chose poorly.
G1 - He gets Karn on Turn 4 and kills me.
Board In - 2 Stony Silence, 2 Crucible of Worlds, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Ghost Quarter, 2 Disenchant; Board Out - 1 Wasteland Stranger, 2 Go For the Throat, 4 Lingering Souls and 2 Expedition Map
G2 - I play stony silence turn 2 and GQ an uraz's mine. No matter, he sylvan scrying for another one, assembles tron, and proceeds to play threat after threat. I'm able to keep pace for a little while, as I have a couple of paths and my oblivion sowers remove a couple of his eldrazi. Sadly, he fetches the third eldarzi in his deck and I'm done.
Record: 3-2
Instead of 190 prize tixckets if I had drawn with him, I get 2 tickets instead, and only because I wanted 360 ticks. Karma is a thing!
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Your color balance is super-low to cast B and W spells early. You need many dual sources and few mono-W or B (or C!). Post-Oath, Caves of Koilos will a mandatory 4-of. I agree that Strangler is too conditional and I run 3 MB Spellskites, which are such a surprise, and so strong (fetch off Eye!).
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
I think we're being too quick to dismiss All is Dust. It's arguably the best sweeper we have access to, barring the Tron MU. It certainly is slow to come down, but we can use Eldrazi Temple to power it out sooner. And it wipes out most problematic creatures.
Someone on this page mentioned Bile Blight, has anyone tried in the SB for elves/fish/whatever? It hits that troublesome number 3 and can buy us time to drop fatties and/or curve into all is dust. BB can be tricky at times, but Languish/Drown in Sorrow/Damnation also require double black.
We shouldn't try to make this deck into some catch-all as I feel it will dilute its power. The goal is to disrupt (effectively buy time) until we can drop bombs. Once we start plugging in 1-offs for specific matchups, we're going to begin topdecking crap we don't need.
Also, someone mentioned Eye searching for Spellskite. There's an inherent toolbox going on in this deck that could possibly be abused further.
You're right about affinity, slipped my mind as my meta is more tron heavy. Someone above posted Curse of Death's Hold in their sideboard. Turn 5 is pretty slow, but it offers a somewhat permanent solution to opponent tokens/affinity creatures.
We're in dire need of something in the 3cmc range to handle this (I'm looking at Engineered Plague).
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Your color balance is super-low to cast B and W spells early. You need many dual sources and few mono-W or B (or C!). Post-Oath, Caves of Koilos will a mandatory 4-of. I agree that Strangler is too conditional and I run 3 MB Spellskites, which are such a surprise, and so strong (fetch off Eye!).
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
I only own 1 damnation. Any suggestions to remove/add to help fix my mana?
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Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Your color balance is super-low to cast B and W spells early. You need many dual sources and few mono-W or B (or C!). Post-Oath, Caves of Koilos will a mandatory 4-of. I agree that Strangler is too conditional and I run 3 MB Spellskites, which are such a surprise, and so strong (fetch off Eye!).
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
I only own 1 damnation. Any suggestions to remove/add to help fix my mana?
Your curve is WAY too high. Ruin Processors cost way too much for what they do and should be SB if included at all. Secondly, I highly disagree with your assessment of Strangler. Between 4 Relics and 4 Paths, I have almost never gotten value off it. It also sits low enough in the curve to chump block aggro decks if you need it to. I'd include the 4x Cave of Kolios if you need help with your mana base.
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Your color balance is super-low to cast B and W spells early. You need many dual sources and few mono-W or B (or C!). Post-Oath, Caves of Koilos will a mandatory 4-of. I agree that Strangler is too conditional and I run 3 MB Spellskites, which are such a surprise, and so strong (fetch off Eye!).
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
I only own 1 damnation. Any suggestions to remove/add to help fix my mana?
Your curve is WAY too high. Ruin Processors cost way too much for what they do and should be SB if included at all. Secondly, I highly disagree with your assessment of Strangler. Between 4 Relics and 4 Paths, I have almost never gotten value off it. It also sits low enough in the curve to chump block aggro decks if you need it to. I'd include the 4x Cave of Kolios if you need help with your mana base.
I can see cutting one, but I want to hedge my bets against burn game 1 if possible.
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Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
I can see cutting one, but I want to hedge my bets against burn game 1 if possible.
If I wanted to hedge my bets against burn in game 1 I'd run Timely Reinforcements MB... Its an absolute house... oh and I notice you aren't running a 1x Vault of the Archangel which also is dumb good when you get it online.
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Your color balance is super-low to cast B and W spells early. You need many dual sources and few mono-W or B (or C!). Post-Oath, Caves of Koilos will a mandatory 4-of. I agree that Strangler is too conditional and I run 3 MB Spellskites, which are such a surprise, and so strong (fetch off Eye!).
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
I only own 1 damnation. Any suggestions to remove/add to help fix my mana?
Your curve is WAY too high. Ruin Processors cost way too much for what they do and should be SB if included at all. Secondly, I highly disagree with your assessment of Strangler. Between 4 Relics and 4 Paths, I have almost never gotten value off it. It also sits low enough in the curve to chump block aggro decks if you need it to. I'd include the 4x Cave of Kolios if you need help with your mana base.
I can see cutting one, but I want to hedge my bets against burn game 1 if possible.
I use 2x Damnation and 2x Engineered Explosives in the board for sweepers. I really like this mix. I have been going back and forth with a single MB All is Dust; it's one sided (except for Spirit tokens) but it is awful slow.
I have not had consistent success with Wasteland Strangler, despite having 4x Relic, 2x Claws, 4x Path, and 1x Surgical Extraction in the main. So I took out three Stranglers for 3 maindeck Spellskites. They ALWAYS have value, no conditions. And they steal games against Infect, Bogles, etc., where we would otherwise be unlikely to win G1.
My mana base is as follows and I find it very strong. I no longer feel worried about slow or inconsistent mana at all (lots of duals, few colorless, no taplands). I plan to run Thought-Knot Seer post-OGW and then I will have 4 Caves of Koilos and probably lose a Shrine and a Flats maybe, or maybe 2 Shrines and keep the Flats.
4 Cave of Koilos, can't go wrong. I urge those of you who don't have them to get a set while they're still $1. This deck is growing popular fast and Caves may spike a bit.
I missed the Spellskite train when they were still $20, now they're pushing $40 and I'm really reluctant to start collecting them. Is skite considered part of the core? I mean, I know it does its job like a boss, but what other strategies can we employ that fulfill a similar role of "hoser/must kill"?
I think many of you are going entirely the wrong route with these new Eldrazi. Let's not abandon what makes this deck good in the first place.
I do have to agree with this. After testing my new list out quite a bit, I'm back to the drawing board. The deck definitely doesn't function the same without our classic Sowers and Herders. But putting them back in brings up the issue against aggro and tron once again. I'm wondering if main board sweepers is the way to go, kind of like what tron is doing with pyroclasm in the main.
I use Spellskites and LoTV against aggro. Testing out to see how many need to main board. I'm playing the midrange game. Stall, get Cthulhu and eat them.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
It's important to note how the interaction between Displacer and Master of Waves can absolutely backfire. If you blink their Master, you will trigger it's enter-the-battlefield ability for more tokens, but the originals won't die. State-based actions don't check during resolutions of things; they will only check once a player has priority again (once the entire blink is complete). The game will still see MoW, and all of the tokens (more than before you blinked it!) will stick around.
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The problem is you need to kill 3/3's. You don't want to topdeck Tendrils against Elves and they have 2 Lords in play and you are boned. Languish or Damnation takes care of both.
Basically what Exatraz stated. Languish is the closest thing we got to a reprint of damnation, with our biggest creatures actually able to survive the languish.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Personally I don't like explosives. We can only do 2 CMC or less and that isn't good enough in my mind. If we could hit 3 (for things like Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Liliana, Detention Sphere, all the elf lords and Ezuri, and all the other great 3 drops) then I'd be for it. I am only running 2 Zealous Conscripts which does work against a lot of the X/1's in fish and elves. It also can help us trade with our lingering souls tokens with X/3's and if you do it before you pop a relic, you kill goyfs.
I do like ratchet bomb for that "I need to blow up random target X". Honestly my favorite sweeper is All is Dust though. It's so one sided that it has won me a couple games (I remember a BW tokens match where both games were decided because of an all is dust. They were just getting wide enough to buy themselves a few turns with Sorin in play. I ripped Dust off the top, swept the board and then cracked in for huge amounts of damage. Finishing them off the following turn. All is Dust is also a fantastic answer against Keranos, Planeswalkers and Boggles.
Explosives can only kill a Blood Moon in our deck if we have both basics out. Not that I really care about it because it hurts them as well. I just don't think it has enough versatility since typically we can only set it to 2. I haven't really had a problem with Zealous conscripts and it does kill things in burn when you have Lingering Souls or Blight Herder Tokens. It literally lets your 1/1's kill 3/3's.
I mean it's ok.. I don't think anything is "great" right there. If we had a -2/-2 for 2 I'd be a lot happier. As it stands I'm still meh. I think maybe 2 generic kill spells go in that spot (like Go for the Throat) when we get Warping Wail.
First of all, NO stranglers in my build. I do not think this card is as good people think it is. Honestly, if I wanted to -3/-3 something, I'd run bile blight which can 2-5 for 1 things sometimes. I also don't run enough exile effects in the deck. When I tried him, he simply was a 2-3 mana for 3/2 body in the early game. I dropped my 3 I had in the main for: Damnation, Go for the Throat, and a 2nd Ruin Processor.
3 Swamp
3 Marsh Flats
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Shambling Vents
3 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Ruin Processor
2 Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
1 Doomblade
1 Dismember
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 All is Dust
1 Damnation
1 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
Sideboard
2 Duress
1 Rest for the Weary
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Spellskite
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silince
Round 1: WBr Aristocrats?
Game 1: Kept a 2 lander when I shouldn't of couldn't get past 3-4 mana for the longest time and slowly died to a lone doomed traveler with blood artist and cutthroat on the board so removal was pointless.
Game 2: Really grindy game but eventually I got there with 8 life left and landed a deaths hold and he scooped.
Game 3: Turn 0 Leyline, auto scoop. I felt bad, for I knew him well and he's a nice guy.
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Ulamog
-1 Kozilek
-1 Doomblade
-1 Dismember
+3 Leyline
+1 Languish
+1 Weary
+2 Purge
Round 2: Not the Usual U Tron but a brew of it.
Game 1: Again mulled to oblivion with stuck on 2-3 lands he natural draws tron eventually and lands Karn followed by Ugin, into Ulamog. Scoop.
Game 2: Again stuck on 4 Mana this time but Karn into Conduit of Ruin into Ulamog seals the deal again.
-1 Doomblade
-1 Dismember
-1 Damnation
-1 All of Dust
+2 Duress
+2 Stony Silence
Round 3: Mono R Burn
Game 1: Couldn't get there and drew into way too much burn for me to live.
Game 2: Grindy game where he kept a risky hand and stalled out long enough for me to get the herder beats.
Game 3: Now HERE is where I lived the decks ABSOLUTE DREAM! I am at 9 life with 2 cards in my hand: Path and Blight Herder I have 6 mana available he empties his hand and casts 2 suspended rift bolts. At first I was like: well... butts. I then pray for a top decked leyline so I can cast it, didn't get it but then I realize: wait a sec... I can put them from exile into the grave and make them fizzle! So I do that and explain the interaction with processing suspended cards and is blown away by it but takes it lightly and we have a good laugh as he bricks on lands and get the 7 power beats. We shake hands and have a good laugh at the blow out.
This made my night.
+1 Weary
+3 Leyline
+2 Purge
+2 Duress
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Damnation
-1 All is Dust
-1 Kozilek
-2 Ulamog
Round 4: Abzan Human Tribal
Game 1: Again mulled to 5 and stalled on 3 mana, he got his human beats on got too many dudes for my 1 for 1 removal to handle.
Game 2: Kept a 4 lander on 7 card hand and slowly grinded my life away but I managed to 1 for 1 more effectivlely as well as make enough souls to chump and grind our his guys, eventually blight herder and sower got their beats after I cursed him with a death's hold.
Game 3: A much closer game which may been his game but he used a thoughtseize on a damnation and not on ulamog when he could of duress'd it away instead but the same thing happened with me blocking with souls and 1 for 1'ing him slowly and cast my 2nd ulamog which I eye'd for and that was that.
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Kozilek
-1 Doomblade
+1 Death's hold
+1 Weary
+1 Languish
+2 Purge
Some concerns on my build:
1. The manabase is a bit clunky, any suggestions to make it less clunky? I did mull alot due to seeing hands of consisting of: GQ and Temple, Plains and Temple, Eye and Plains or 1 landers even.
2. Any sweet anti-tron tech people want to share? I would like to make my MU better but I don't feel GQ's and discard are enough.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
Eldrazi displacer looks amazing against all the aggro decks, screwing with manlands,master of waves, ravager, etc. Thought-knot sower would have greatly helped against tron.
Damnation surprisingly under performed. Granted, it was usually because it was discarded or countered, but the one game where it really would have helped, I found myself stuck on 1 swamp without access to a second black source.Lingering Souls and Blight Herders were amazing, helping me race or block.
Celestial purge was also underwhelming since I didn't face any burn, anything running Liliana of the Veil is almost a bye in most matches (mirror the exception), and I have more than enough removal/discard to handle twin. I would probably trade the purges out for duress.
Speaking of changes, I went back to GP Oakland for a smaller Swiss on Sunday. My list was the same except I took out the damnations for a newly acquired spellskite and all is dust. The former I opened from a draft on Saturday and the latter I found at a pretty good price while walking around the vendors, so I was eager to try out my new toys:
Match 1: Affinity
G1 - He overruns me with little robots and flying manlands,then burns me out. I have a dead go for the throat in my hand the whole game. Second time my choice of removal has hurt me (first time was against infect and it's manlands).
Board In - 2 Stony Silence, 2 Disenchant, 1 Ghost Quarter, Board Out - 2 Go For the Throat, 1 Oblivion Sower, 2 Expedition Map
G2 - Similar game, but I have the disenchants and ghost quarters to slow him down. I eventually stabilize with lingering souls and blight herder.
G3 - He has me on the backfoot as he dumps his hand, but he begins running out of gas as I chump with spirit tokens and wasteland stranglers. Then he casts day's undoing. Oh god. Luck is with me, as my new 7 contains a stony silence. Suddenly, most of his cards are blank. However, he somehow finds three master of etherium and suddenly I'm at 2 facing lethal. The only thing saving me is that his inkmoth nexus deals damage in the form of poison counters rather than damage.
I play eye of ugin, although I'm unsure (I think I did?) if I played my land drop for the turn. My opponent didn't seem to care (or notice?), even though it was a tense game. For future reference, do I call a judge on myself? I fetch Ulamog, and he exiles two of the masters. My opponent concedes after that.
Record: 1-0
Match 2 - Merfolk
G1 - He has some early fish, but no lords. He does spreading seas my only temple. I have the time to set up a board of eldrazi and spirits, but he eventually lands a master of waves and a master of pearls. He swings in with what he thinks is unblockable lethal, but I GQ my own island, a move he doesn't see coming. My eldrazi block his merfolk and suddenly the game is completely flipped on its head in my favor. He tries to grind it out, but he eventually scoops.
Board In - 1 All is Dust, 1 Surgical Extraction Board Out - 1 Oblivion Sower, 1 Expedition Map
G2 - I path his lords and his remaining fish can't stop my eldrazi horde.
Record: 2-0
Match 3 - Twin
G1 - I double inquisition him and he loses his cantrips. I slow grind him, constantly holding back removal so that he can't suddenly combo off. Relic keeps his graveyard empty so his snapcasters can't generate any card advantage for him.
Board In - 2 Celestial Purge, 1 Surgical Extraction Board Out- 1 Ulamog, 2 wasteland strangler
G2 - Same as G1, except he kept a hand with two twins and one creature that I discard.
Record: 3-0
Match 4 - Infect (against the same one on Saturday!)
G1 - I have him completely on the backfoot with double inquisitions, double lingering souls, and double GQ. I stupidly attack with my spirit tokens while he has an inkmoth in play. He attacks with the inkmoth and I attempt to GQ it. He gives it shroud. I could actiatve the second GQ in response, but I forget for a split second and the inkmoth resolves. He pumps it for lethal and once again I lose a game I was winning. Against the same infect player with the same deck. I'm such a good player.
Board In - 2 Disenchant; 1 surgical extraction; Board Out - 2 Expedition Map, 1 oblivion sower
G2 - I inquisition and he has 1 noble hierarch, 1 spellskite, 1 blighted agent, 1 glister elf, 1 forest, 1 inkmoth, 1 groundswell. It's a perfect hand for him, but I discard the elf and continue with the match. Still, I draw the removal I need to remove spellskite and keep his infect creatures from killing me. I finally learn from my previous games and pass priority to him every attack step before playing my own removal so that he can't just give them shroud in response. Eventually, spirit tokens take the win for me.
G3 - He attacks with blighted agent pumped with noble hierarch every turn and I don't draw the removal to stop it.
Record: 3-1.
Match 5 - Tron
I'm very greedy and we play instead of taking the draw. I chose poorly.
G1 - He gets Karn on Turn 4 and kills me.
Board In - 2 Stony Silence, 2 Crucible of Worlds, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Ghost Quarter, 2 Disenchant; Board Out - 1 Wasteland Stranger, 2 Go For the Throat, 4 Lingering Souls and 2 Expedition Map
G2 - I play stony silence turn 2 and GQ an uraz's mine. No matter, he sylvan scrying for another one, assembles tron, and proceeds to play threat after threat. I'm able to keep pace for a little while, as I have a couple of paths and my oblivion sowers remove a couple of his eldrazi. Sadly, he fetches the third eldarzi in his deck and I'm done.
Record: 3-2
Instead of 190 prize tixckets if I had drawn with him, I get 2 tickets instead, and only because I wanted 360 ticks. Karma is a thing!
For Tron (and Scapeshift it should be added) I have warped my board to have 2x Map and 3x Surgical Extraction but no Celestial Purge. (This set-up drew me a match post-board vs. Scapeshift after GQing and Extracting his Valakut in G2.) Ghost Quarter is not enough by itself, you need Extraction, because the land decks are too consistent. Map will also help with Blood Moon-type effects where Quarter would not.
For sweepers I am considering Languish over Damnation but own only the latter; the rhino, the Banana King and the zombie fish are still a thing, so I don't know.
Someone on this page mentioned Bile Blight, has anyone tried in the SB for elves/fish/whatever? It hits that troublesome number 3 and can buy us time to drop fatties and/or curve into all is dust. BB can be tricky at times, but Languish/Drown in Sorrow/Damnation also require double black.
We shouldn't try to make this deck into some catch-all as I feel it will dilute its power. The goal is to disrupt (effectively buy time) until we can drop bombs. Once we start plugging in 1-offs for specific matchups, we're going to begin topdecking crap we don't need.
Also, someone mentioned Eye searching for Spellskite. There's an inherent toolbox going on in this deck that could possibly be abused further.
We're in dire need of something in the 3cmc range to handle this (I'm looking at Engineered Plague).
I only own 1 damnation. Any suggestions to remove/add to help fix my mana?
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
Your curve is WAY too high. Ruin Processors cost way too much for what they do and should be SB if included at all. Secondly, I highly disagree with your assessment of Strangler. Between 4 Relics and 4 Paths, I have almost never gotten value off it. It also sits low enough in the curve to chump block aggro decks if you need it to. I'd include the 4x Cave of Kolios if you need help with your mana base.
I can see cutting one, but I want to hedge my bets against burn game 1 if possible.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
If I wanted to hedge my bets against burn in game 1 I'd run Timely Reinforcements MB... Its an absolute house... oh and I notice you aren't running a 1x Vault of the Archangel which also is dumb good when you get it online.
I have not had consistent success with Wasteland Strangler, despite having 4x Relic, 2x Claws, 4x Path, and 1x Surgical Extraction in the main. So I took out three Stranglers for 3 maindeck Spellskites. They ALWAYS have value, no conditions. And they steal games against Infect, Bogles, etc., where we would otherwise be unlikely to win G1.
My mana base is as follows and I find it very strong. I no longer feel worried about slow or inconsistent mana at all (lots of duals, few colorless, no taplands). I plan to run Thought-Knot Seer post-OGW and then I will have 4 Caves of Koilos and probably lose a Shrine and a Flats maybe, or maybe 2 Shrines and keep the Flats.
2x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of the Archangel
I missed the Spellskite train when they were still $20, now they're pushing $40 and I'm really reluctant to start collecting them. Is skite considered part of the core? I mean, I know it does its job like a boss, but what other strategies can we employ that fulfill a similar role of "hoser/must kill"?
I use Spellskites and LoTV against aggro. Testing out to see how many need to main board. I'm playing the midrange game. Stall, get Cthulhu and eat them.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
It's important to note how the interaction between Displacer and Master of Waves can absolutely backfire. If you blink their Master, you will trigger it's enter-the-battlefield ability for more tokens, but the originals won't die. State-based actions don't check during resolutions of things; they will only check once a player has priority again (once the entire blink is complete). The game will still see MoW, and all of the tokens (more than before you blinked it!) will stick around.