here are some initial thoughts on teh past couple of comments:
1st: Selfless Spirit
BW Eldrazi is a Midrange-Deck in it's purest form, so therefore it's mandatory to avoid situational Cards like Spirit.
One thing this deck should be build around is, that as many cards as possible must be good topdecks.
Spirit doesn't fit that bill. The thing that it does add to teh deck, it's that it prevent a huge supreme verdict blowout.
It does not prevent terminate or path in a reliable way - that's where Spellskite really shines (a card
i highly advise if you need a reliable 2-Drop). It even slows down valakut, the molten pinnacle.
If we are concerned 'bout Anger or Verdict, i expect it's better to not over-extend into it or strip those Cards wiht Discard-Spells.
I always board a burrenton forge-tender against decks with Anger. That's totally fine.
2nd:Surgical Extraction
Yeah, i know it's not blowing anyone out of teh match.
But hell, we ain't got fulminator mage or lost legacy (costs BB and therefore hard to cast).
So there isn't anything that i could really expect in this place. Memoricide and stain the mind are way too slow.
here are some initial thoughts on teh past couple of comments:
1st: Selfless Spirit
BW Eldrazi is a Midrange-Deck in it's purest form, so therefore it's mandatory to avoid situational Cards like Spirit.
One thing this deck should be build around is, that as many cards as possible must be good topdecks.
Spirit doesn't fit that bill. The thing that it does add to teh deck, it's that it prevent a huge supreme verdict blowout.
It does not prevent terminate or path in a reliable way - that's where Spellskite really shines (a card
i highly advise if you need a reliable 2-Drop). It even slows down valakut, the molten pinnacle.
If we are concerned 'bout Anger or Verdict, i expect it's better to not over-extend into it or strip those Cards wiht Discard-Spells.
I always board a burrenton forge-tender against decks with Anger. That's totally fine.
I don't know if selfless spirit is a good fit for the deck but I would like to correct a few things:
Selfless spirt stops terminate and doesn't cost 2 life (which is what spellskite would cost). However, it doesn't stop path to exile.
I would argue that spellskite is a more situational card than selfless spirit. Selfless spirit has evasion and can do damage to the opponent. Spellskite is a 0/4 wall that costs us 2 life to redirect a spell to it.
Think of selfless spirit as a 2/1 flying beater for 2 mana that can protect your creatures. This is a possible replacement for tidehollow sculler, if you run that kind of list. They fill very different roles but is a better late game top-deck than tidehollow sculler.
Ok, so i've ran the deck to a 2-2 finish yesterday.
Round 1: BW Tokens
Match 1 he had a slow start and stripped my Sorin, Solemn Visitor.
I did Brutality and knew from there on that he had no Gas.
I drew into some Eldrazi and overwhelmed him. 1-0
Match 2 was literally teh same. He had Spectral Procession, but i traded favorably with Matter Reshaper
and finally overwhelmed him again. 2-0
Round 2: UWr Nahiri
I had to mull, but he was stuck on 2 Lands for a couple of turns. I couldn't handle Ancestral vision and he drew 3 Cards off it.
What to expect of 3 CArds? He drew into 3 Lands and finally couldn't keep up. 1-0
I had no board and was out of Cards. My opponent had quartered my sea gate wreckage.
He passed and i topdecked reality smasher ftw. 2-0
Round 3: Green Stompy
Here's where my luck ended.
Match 1 i was totally screwed. I mulled to 6 and was stucked on 2 Lands for a long time being.
I finally did TKS, but his leatherback baloth + aspect of hydra were enough to beat me finally.
0-1
Match 2 i was screwed too. I've mulled to 6 with a mediocre hand. He dropped threat after threat and i found 0 Removal.
0-2
I had no removal for TiTi and put out Spirit tokens and Strangler.
TiTi flipped and killed my with double mutagenic growth + Apostel's blessing.
0-1
I was pretty damned sure he had no Blood Moon, as he told me a week ago.
Now he had and i wasn't prepared.
Match 2 i fetched Shrine and dropped Matter reshaper, which hits for 12 consecutive damage.
He dropped T3 Moon and i was overall screwed. He bolted Reshaper and i found another one off of my deck.
Then came Bedlam Reveler and Titi on his side, which closed teh game in like 2 Turns.
0-2
Thoughts:
After these Matches i instantly switched teh following:
- 1 (of 2) Brutality
- 1 Sorin
- 1 IoK
+ 2 thoughtseize
+ 1 timely reinforcements
As you can see - 2 Discard, + 2 Discard, - 2 Lifelink-Card, + 1 Lifelink-Card.
I had teh feeling i needed more B-Discard and IoK had been a bit underwhelming.
I'm really looking for something else instead of Reinforcements. Sorin was too low of an impact,
so i switched him to my sideboard. Isn't there any relevant 4-Drop for us, kind of Siege Rhino?
I got 3rd/4th in a small GPT on Sunday, going 3-1 in the Swiss and losing in the semifinals.
I played the same list I’ve been on for the past couple months with a small tweak to the SB to improve the match against Dredge and hopefully Valakut decks:
The Swiss: vs. Naya Burn: 2-0 (1-0)
I now feel that this match is pretty favorable overall, best of three. Brutality is an absolute house, and Strangler and Reshaper are both outstanding here as well. Lifegain from the side is also important, though I didn't need it this time. Notable plays: processed a Rift Bolt to kill a Swiftspear in G1; took zero damage from Eidolon over three turns in G2, landing Seer, Smasher, and then Sorin.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Timely x1, Bomb x2, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseixe x3, Unmaking x1, Relic x2, Cavern x1
vs. Mono-W Death & Taxes: 1-2 (1-1)
Awesome match with crazy game states. In G1 I removed his T2 Vial with my sole maindeck Unmaking before it could come online, which led me to feel pretty confident. I ended up stabilizing at 4 life with Spirit token blockers and a hand full of power, but he was able to slip past my Spirits by using Brave the Elements. In G2 he landed a T2 Arbiter while I had white mana up. I Pathed his Dryad Militant EOT (having Souls in hand) and then used a Ghost Quarter to get one of his lands. Over the next few turns we worked together to play a total of FIVE Ghost Quarters and THREE Paths (!) under that same Arbiter, before I removed it with Ratchet Bomb. After I killed his dude he was left mana-less as I drew lands to cast my hand full of Spirits and Eldrazi. In G3 I once again stabilized at low life with Spirit chumps, but lost to a topdecked Brave the Elements. Notable Plays: Using my own GQs to wreck his manabase (with no Vial in play) under his Arbiter.
SIDE IN: Needle x2, Bomb x2, Alliance x2, Unmaking x1, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Thoughtseize x3, Cavern x1
vs. Sun and Moon: 2-0 (2-1)
I’d never played against this deck before, and I don’t usually track changes to the meta closely, so it was new to me. I wondered what he was up to after he mulled to 6, opened with a maindeck Leyline of Sanctity, and then passed without playing a spell for the first few turns (no Moon or Chalice). In G1 two Smashers were key in removing Chandra and Gideon, while Vent was essential in cleaning up walkers too, after they’d minused to remove the creature threats I was landing. In G2 I played around Moon by Pathing a Strangler in response to it, getting a Wastes. Two more Smashers closed that game out for me as well. Notable plays: Playing around Blood Moon using Path; Ghost Quarter can also do this when needed.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x1, Bomb x2, Needle x2, Extraction x2 (had nothing else good and hoped to possibly hit a walker), Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Go for the Throat x1, Brutality x1, Cavern x1
vs. BR BridgelessRack brew: 2-1 (3-1)
This was a pretty easy match--because no Bridge--but also a weird one. In G1 I got 3x Lingering Souls in hand by like T4 and easily won with an army of flyers while he drew zero sweepers. In G2 I stupidly played right into a T3 Blood Moon that I should have seen coming, and ceded at 20 life after he landed a Kalitas and I had only Mountains on the field and in hand. Notable plays: In G3 I kept my Relic active and used it as I intended to save my own Smashers from his Surgical Extraction, which is a card that always features in Rack decks.
SIDE IN: Timely x1, Alliance x2, Bomb x2, Unmaking x1, Wastes x1 (in G3)
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseize x3, Brutality x1, Go for the Throat x1, Cavern x1 (in G3)
Top 8 vs. BR Rack: 2-0 (1-0)
Same guy, same story, easy win. However in G2 he sided in his entire board (!) but somehow managed to flood anyway in the late game. BUT he also managed to Extract all my Smashers, Slaughter Games all my Seers, and then look at my hand later in the game using Thoughtseize to take a Reshaper, leaving me with only all 4 Paths in hand (!) which he got with another Games on the next turn. Bizarre. Vent closed this one out for me as he failed to draw a Bolt.
vs. Grixis Delver: 1-2 (1-1 and eliminated)
Usually this match isn’t too bad if I can get rid of an early Delver. In G1 2x Lingering Souls plus TKS made it easy, but in both G2 and G3 I somehow managed to miss all my removal save one card (Path in G2 and Blessed Alliance in G3) in each game. It was a frustrating loss, as I have a gazillion ways to kill a Delver when I need to, but couldn’t find any of them in these games. I also drew all four Relics in BOTH of these games, cracking them to draw more lands, more Relics, and stuff like the easily-chumped Reshaper. Bummer. I think I should have sided differently in this match. Notable plays: In G2 I intentionally threw my only in-hand Path into a Mana Leak I’d seen earlier on his T3 EOT , in order to make way for my own T3 Seer. Turned out that Delver killed me. I also mis-sequenced in G3 and cast a Souls into a Spell Pierce I could have avoided by being smarter.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Bomb x2
SIDE OUT: Unmaking x1, Sorin x1, Brutality x1
Thoughts: Mind Stone proved its worth again today by getting me to 4 mana when I would have been dead without it in G1 of round 4 in the Swiss. It is also part of the plan against Blood Moon and I view it as essential to the build.
I don’t worry about Blood Moon anymore, by the way; with three B/W fetches, four basics in all my “colors" post-board, three Ghost Quarters, four Paths, and two Stones, I can just about always find a hand that will allow me to get the mana I need. Thoughtseize (or Seer on the play, with Temple) can rip Moon out of hand, and Bomb can get it after it has landed. Unmaking can hit it as well, if the Swamp and Plains are in play, as they are a surprising amount of the time. Most decks with Moon are not very fast and leave me enough breathing room to pull these tricks off, as long as I am playing with this end in mind.
If I hadn’t misplayed (and gotten a little unlucky) in the semis, there is no reason I couldn’t have won the event, since Affinity was the other player in the finals. I feel the deck is pretty well-placed—as much as any midrange deck is right now anyway—and I still enjoy the many angles of attack, and the versatility, a great deal.
Ok, so i've ran the deck to a 2-2 finish yesterday.
Round 1: BW Tokens
Match 1 he had a slow start and stripped my Sorin, Solemn Visitor.
I did Brutality and knew from there on that he had no Gas.
I drew into some Eldrazi and overwhelmed him. 1-0
Match 2 was literally teh same. He had Spectral Procession, but i traded favorably with Matter Reshaper
and finally overwhelmed him again. 2-0
Round 2: UWr Nahiri
I had to mull, but he was stuck on 2 Lands for a couple of turns. I couldn't handle Ancestral vision and he drew 3 Cards off it.
What to expect of 3 CArds? He drew into 3 Lands and finally couldn't keep up. 1-0
I had no board and was out of Cards. My opponent had quartered my sea gate wreckage.
He passed and i topdecked reality smasher ftw. 2-0
Round 3: Green Stompy
Here's where my luck ended.
Match 1 i was totally screwed. I mulled to 6 and was stucked on 2 Lands for a long time being.
I finally did TKS, but his leatherback baloth + aspect of hydra were enough to beat me finally.
0-1
Match 2 i was screwed too. I've mulled to 6 with a mediocre hand. He dropped threat after threat and i found 0 Removal.
0-2
I had no removal for TiTi and put out Spirit tokens and Strangler.
TiTi flipped and killed my with double mutagenic growth + Apostel's blessing.
0-1
I was pretty damned sure he had no Blood Moon, as he told me a week ago.
Now he had and i wasn't prepared.
Match 2 i fetched Shrine and dropped Matter reshaper, which hits for 12 consecutive damage.
He dropped T3 Moon and i was overall screwed. He bolted Reshaper and i found another one off of my deck.
Then came Bedlam Reveler and Titi on his side, which closed teh game in like 2 Turns.
0-2
Thoughts:
After these Matches i instantly switched teh following:
- 1 (of 2) Brutality
- 1 Sorin
- 1 IoK
+ 2 thoughtseize
+ 1 timely reinforcements
As you can see - 2 Discard, + 2 Discard, - 2 Lifelink-Card, + 1 Lifelink-Card.
I had teh feeling i needed more B-Discard and IoK had been a bit underwhelming.
I'm really looking for something else instead of Reinforcements. Sorin was too low of an impact,
so i switched him to my sideboard. Isn't there any relevant 4-Drop for us, kind of Siege Rhino?
What is your decklist? Is it the one posted here? What is your current sideboard? I would like to comment more, but I need to know your decklist and sideboard first.
I got 3rd/4th in a small GPT on Sunday, going 3-1 in the Swiss and losing in the semifinals.
I played the same list I’ve been on for the past couple months with a small tweak to the SB to improve the match against Dredge and hopefully Valakut decks:
The Swiss: vs. Naya Burn: 2-0 (1-0)
I now feel that this match is pretty favorable overall, best of three. Brutality is an absolute house, and Strangler and Reshaper are both outstanding here as well. Lifegain from the side is also important, though I didn't need it this time. Notable plays: processed a Rift Bolt to kill a Swiftspear in G1; took zero damage from Eidolon over three turns in G2, landing Seer, Smasher, and then Sorin.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Timely x1, Bomb x2, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseixe x3, Unmaking x1, Relic x2, Cavern x1
vs. Mono-W Death & Taxes: 1-2 (1-1)
Awesome match with crazy game states. In G1 I removed his T2 Vial with my sole maindeck Unmaking before it could come online, which led me to feel pretty confident. I ended up stabilizing at 4 life with Spirit token blockers and a hand full of power, but he was able to slip past my Spirits by using Brave the Elements. In G2 he landed a T2 Arbiter while I had white mana up. I Pathed his Dryad Militant EOT (having Souls in hand) and then used a Ghost Quarter to get one of his lands. Over the next few turns we worked together to play a total of FIVE Ghost Quarters and THREE Paths (!) under that same Arbiter, before I removed it with Ratchet Bomb. After I killed his dude he was left mana-less as I drew lands to cast my hand full of Spirits and Eldrazi. In G3 I once again stabilized at low life with Spirit chumps, but lost to a topdecked Brave the Elements. Notable Plays: Using my own GQs to wreck his manabase (with no Vial in play) under his Arbiter.
SIDE IN: Needle x2, Bomb x2, Alliance x2, Unmaking x1, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Thoughtseize x3, Cavern x1
vs. Sun and Moon: 2-0 (2-1)
I’d never played against this deck before, and I don’t usually track changes to the meta closely, so it was new to me. I wondered what he was up to after he mulled to 6, opened with a maindeck Leyline of Sanctity, and then passed without playing a spell for the first few turns (no Moon or Chalice). In G1 two Smashers were key in removing Chandra and Gideon, while Vent was essential in cleaning up walkers too, after they’d minused to remove the creature threats I was landing. In G2 I played around Moon by Pathing a Strangler in response to it, getting a Wastes. Two more Smashers closed that game out for me as well. Notable plays: Playing around Blood Moon using Path; Ghost Quarter can also do this when needed.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x1, Bomb x2, Needle x2, Extraction x2 (had nothing else good and hoped to possibly hit a walker), Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Go for the Throat x1, Brutality x1, Cavern x1
vs. BR BridgelessRack brew: 2-1 (3-1)
This was a pretty easy match--because no Bridge--but also a weird one. In G1 I got 3x Lingering Souls in hand by like T4 and easily won with an army of flyers while he drew zero sweepers. In G2 I stupidly played right into a T3 Blood Moon that I should have seen coming, and ceded at 20 life after he landed a Kalitas and I had only Mountains on the field and in hand. Notable plays: In G3 I kept my Relic active and used it as I intended to save my own Smashers from his Surgical Extraction, which is a card that always features in Rack decks.
SIDE IN: Timely x1, Alliance x2, Bomb x2, Unmaking x1, Wastes x1 (in G3)
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseize x3, Brutality x1, Go for the Throat x1, Cavern x1 (in G3)
Top 8 vs. BR Rack: 2-0 (1-0)
Same guy, same story, easy win. However in G2 he sided in his entire board (!) but somehow managed to flood anyway in the late game. BUT he also managed to Extract all my Smashers, Slaughter Games all my Seers, and then look at my hand later in the game using Thoughtseize to take a Reshaper, leaving me with only all 4 Paths in hand (!) which he got with another Games on the next turn. Bizarre. Vent closed this one out for me as he failed to draw a Bolt.
vs. Grixis Delver: 1-2 (1-1 and eliminated)
Usually this match isn’t too bad if I can get rid of an early Delver. In G1 2x Lingering Souls plus TKS made it easy, but in both G2 and G3 I somehow managed to miss all my removal save one card (Path in G2 and Blessed Alliance in G3) in each game. It was a frustrating loss, as I have a gazillion ways to kill a Delver when I need to, but couldn’t find any of them in these games. I also drew all four Relics in BOTH of these games, cracking them to draw more lands, more Relics, and stuff like the easily-chumped Reshaper. Bummer. I think I should have sided differently in this match. Notable plays: In G2 I intentionally threw my only in-hand Path into a Mana Leak I’d seen earlier on his T3 EOT , in order to make way for my own T3 Seer. Turned out that Delver killed me. I also mis-sequenced in G3 and cast a Souls into a Spell Pierce I could have avoided by being smarter.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Bomb x2
SIDE OUT: Unmaking x1, Sorin x1, Brutality x1
Thoughts: Mind Stone proved its worth again today by getting me to 4 mana when I would have been dead without it in G1 of round 4 in the Swiss. It is also part of the plan against Blood Moon and I view it as essential to the build.
I don’t worry about Blood Moon anymore, by the way; with three B/W fetches, four basics in all my “colors" post-board, three Ghost Quarters, four Paths, and two Stones, I can just about always find a hand that will allow me to get the mana I need. Thoughtseize (or Seer on the play, with Temple) can rip Moon out of hand, and Bomb can get it after it has landed. Unmaking can hit it as well, if the Swamp and Plains are in play, as they are a surprising amount of the time. Most decks with Moon are not very fast and leave me enough breathing room to pull these tricks off, as long as I am playing with this end in mind.
If I hadn’t misplayed (and gotten a little unlucky) in the semis, there is no reason I couldn’t have won the event, since Affinity was the other player in the finals. I feel the deck is pretty well-placed—as much as any midrange deck is right now anyway—and I still enjoy the many angles of attack, and the versatility, a great deal.
Just a few points because I don't have much time right now.
Wrath of god or damnation doesn't really matter since most of our sources are W and B. Damnation is cooler though (and sounds more metal).
I think that you should have both of your collective brutalities in your main when you play against grixis delver. They run so many instants and sorceries (so it is never dead) and it can also kill an unflipped delver.
What matchups do you bring in declaration in stone? I am still a fan of disenchant in the sideboard (it would of come in against, sun and moon, both 8-rack games, and grixis delver). Celestial purge is also very, very nice.
You side in wastes a lot and bring out cavern. Maybe you should just have wastes mainboard and put a different card in the side.
I feel like we have had this conversation before, but have you considered engineered explosives instead of ratchet bomb? Yes, for the most part engineered explosives can only hit CMC of 2 or less, but you run 2 anguished unmaking which can take care of higher cmc permanents. However, engineered can hit CMC 0 permants on turn 2 (same with ratchet bomb), hit CMC 1 on turn 2 or 3 (ratchet bomb is turn 3), hit CMC 2 on turn 3 or 4 (ratchet bomb is turn 4), and engineered is a much better top deck later in the game because you can cast and crack it on the same turn.
Good job though! I am back on the mind stone train! Blood moon is a thing of the past.
Kalitas, traitor of Ghet is a card that's been used as lifelink/4-drop in the past, I was running one up until a month or so ago. I took him out because I just wasn't seeing enough burn/aggro to justify the lifelink part of Kalitas as being necessary, and the exile + token effect just doesn't do a whole lot when we have paths and when we are already usually favored in grindy mid-range matchups. But I could definitely see using this card in a meta where you're facing lots of burn, delver, and other aggro decks.
I think the big thing in Damnation vs. Wrath isn't really a mana issue as it is there's just more creatures/spells that give protection to white.
I am definitely a fan of EE, I think it's such a sick card because so many problem creatures are CMC 2 or less, and as herfs said it can be a turn faster than ratchet bomb, and late game can blow up for 0-2 CMC on 1 turn. I actually run 1 ratchet and 2 EE total in my 75, I've been liking the versatility of ratchet bomb in the maindeck.
Polymorph, I agree that it would be helpful to see your decklist. I get the sense that you are experimenting a lot, which is good. But it might make it harder to find the deck's best lines.
You are right about Brutality and the Delver match, herfs. That was a mistake, since Brutality can also kill a flipped Delver. However I have to say that I'm not sure I'm sold on your other ideas yet.
Damnation seems preferable because as you rightly note it's about 1000% more metal than Wrath is, which is awesome. But I seriously think the BB is a pretty significant upgrade over the WW too, since when I need it I often want it ASAP on T4, and my manabase already skews slightly Black for Thoughtseize etc. Matches are won and lost on such matters, as you know. Also I have been building towards Jund/Junk slowly since I began playing Modern about a year and a half ago, so there's that.
Declaration is for Dredge and also as a crappy extra piece of targeted removal. I'll probably remove it if I decide Dredge is covered well enough with the Extractions now.
Disenchant and Purge are both very good, but not broad enough for my tastes anymore. I really like having a catch-all in Unmaking for any and all of those miscellaneous permanents. I think it works very well with the angles that I tend to see and/or like to play. I also love that this particular set of troublesome-permanent answers only takes up two slots in my 75.
I keep Cavern main because I really like it for control matchups and I see those a lot at my LGS. Many of the best players there seem to have a serious fetish for Grixis builds. I like having the surprise in such matches too, against new opponents. But I always swap Cavern out for Wastes if my opponent runs Path, Ghost Quarter, or Blood Moon. Wastes is absolutely necessary for Moon, as I see it. It is only a slight edge against the other angles, but since I have that edge, I play it when appropriate. (Against Jeskai I take out Vault for Wastes.)
EE is attractive because it can be faster, and a late Bomb is sometimes too slow, it's true. But I definitely will not be using Engineered Explosives over Ratchet Bomb. I am fully convinced Bomb is better for my approach to this deck, for a few reasons.
Bomb does not need B OR W to be cast, so I can actually land it T2 every time I see it in my opener.
Bomb gets to 3 for Moon and Bridge (or Geist), which are very troublesome permanents. Unmaking is very good but can be hard to cast under Moon, so this helps cover me in that case.
Bomb also gets to 3, 4 or 5 for planeswalkers when needed. I use it this way frequently.
I had an idea for a post, not sure if I'm going to make the effort or not. The idea would be to create a list of problems and answers and see if it would be possible to correlate which set of cards would most broadly cover ALL of the potential problems while using up the least amount of deck space. That is the end goal I am shooting for. It's why I run Thoughtseize but not Inquisition. It's why I have two Unmaking instead of other options, two Bombs, etc.
I recently went to a 176 person open (didn't do very well, 3-3, drop). I have a sideboard guide I brought with me which may tie with your post of answers to threats in a more general sense. I'll try to make some time tomorrow for the report and SB guide.
I'm testing on a daily base and because of that put back Sorin, as it proved to be better than
Timely. My sideboard is tweaked towards permanent-removal (wish we had a 3-Mana Nevinyrral's disk).
The 3/2 split of IoK / 'Seize feels better and gives me more flexible side-in / side-out decisions.
Hey! I'm a long time lurker on this thread, as i'm building the deck on paper and soon will start my takes on local tournaments. Proxying it right now playing with friends and the deck is awesome! Not uber strong as some of the tiers, but I feel it is really really fun to play with so much strong cards as reality smasher, TKS, strangler, sorin in the same shell.
Right now i'm trying 2 thought seizes and 2 brutality, but feel like only 2 T1 discard is a little risky on the current meta. Also playing a split of 2 matter reshapers and 2 displacers, the latter as a threat removal more than a TKS blinker. reseting a Delver or tapping some troublesome creatures to land TKS blows is really good, because of lack of evasion.
Also thiking of dropping sea gate wreakage for a second vault or OGT oran-rif.
Yesterday I saw a list somewhere running 1-of Phyrexian metamorph. Do you think it could be a thing? as a 5th smasher/TKS?
This card seems insane for us, as it doesn't kill our big dudes, and deals with selfless spirit
I dunno, doesn't seem super great, can't cast any of our strong creatures off of it and like Sburani said for 4 mana I'd prefer to cast Damnation. That being said against go wide decks like elves it may be worth it.
I dunno, doesn't seem super great, can't cast any of our strong creatures off of it and like Sburani said for 4 mana I'd prefer to cast Damnation. That being said against go wide decks like elves it may be worth it.
I definitely agree, Damnation is better since they are both double B and 4 CMC. This card is maybe better than flaying tendrils in that it's easier to cast double B on T4 rather than T3. Also getting a free 3-cost spell on T4 doesn't seem very exciting for this deck. Question: If I play lingering souls with the free cast, do they resolve after the -3/-3 resolves? Lastly, Damnation is solid in matchups like bant eldrazi and jund, which this new card would basically do not even close to as much of a boardwipe.
Right now i'm trying 2 thought seizes and 2 brutality, but feel like only 2 T1 discard is a little risky on the current meta. Also playing a split of 2 matter reshapers and 2 displacers, the latter as a threat removal more than a TKS blinker. reseting a Delver or tapping some troublesome creatures to land TKS blows is really good, because of lack of evasion.
Also thiking of dropping sea gate wreakage for a second vault or OGT oran-rif.
Yesterday I saw a list somewhere running 1-of Phyrexian metamorph. Do you think it could be a thing? as a 5th smasher/TKS?
That's the same reason I love the deck, it may not beat down as well as bant eldrazi, or jund as well as jund, but the games are exciting and the different angles to winning keep it fresh. I was actually thinking the same thing for discard, cutting my ratchet bomb from the main to get back to 4 discard, and running a 2-2 split of CoBr and seize. My thought was CoBr is a waaay better late game top deck and I hate drawing dead cards. But like you I'm not totally convinced, there are some matchups where you really really want to seize T1 or T2 (bant eldrazi and bogles for example). I don't see the two life loss on seize as a factor to not run it, we've got plenty of main deck lifegain.
Edit: I wouldn't recommend a second vault, it is an absolute beast when it's effect is usable, but when it's not it's just a wastes and I'd recommend some B/W land instead to help with casting colored cards.
Phyrexian Metamorph does look interesting. I hadn't seen that card before, but if I had to guess why it's not played it's because we have to pay 2 life every time to cast it since we have no blue source. And playing it on T3 to get that ramp value from the Phyrexian mana would really only come into play with an opening hand like this: 2x temple, TKS, a 3rd land, and metamorph. That won't happen too often.
I had an idea for a post, not sure if I'm going to make the effort or not. The idea would be to create a list of problems and answers and see if it would be possible to correlate which set of cards would most broadly cover ALL of the potential problems while using up the least amount of deck space. That is the end goal I am shooting for. It's why I run Thoughtseize but not Inquisition. It's why I have two Unmaking instead of other options, two Bombs, etc.
What about a sort of sideboard/flexslot guide or post? It would be a table with the left column being 30 or so of the most poplular decks, top column would be best flex/SB cards, and the table would have an 'x' to mark where a certain card is good/sided in in a particular matchup. It could also include In/Out guides for those matchups. I've got similar notes, both a table and In/Out notes, for my local meta that I used to decide on my personal flex/SB cards and could post that over the weekend if it would be beneficial. I will admit though my In/Out ideas are probably pretty bad in some cases, sideboarding in general is one of my weaknesses with this deck.
I definitely agree, Damnation is better since they are both double B and 4 CMC. This card is maybe better than flaying tendrils in that it's easier to cast double B on T4 rather than T3. Also getting a free 3-cost spell on T4 doesn't seem very exciting for this deck. Question: If I play lingering souls with the free cast, do they resolve after the -3/-3 resolves? Lastly, Damnation is solid in matchups like bant eldrazi and jund, which this new card would basically do not even close to as much of a boardwipe.
YE will have resolved while lingering souls is still on the stack so no, they would not be affected by the -3/-3.
So here's my list and SB guide I ran at the FtF 3k open last week with 176 players. I'm interested in peoples thoughts on the SB guide. If they agree or disagree with choices. Any questions on my choices feel free to ask.
Edit: PtE = Path to exile, TS = thoughtsezie, IoK = inquisition of kozilek, RoP = relic of progenitus, CoBr = collective brutality, GtfT = Go for the throat, Dec = Declaration in Stone, BA = Blessed alliance
It does but it only affects creatures that are on the battlefield at resolution. The spirits aren't on the battlefield on resolution as lingering souls is still on the stack.
Rule for reference:
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set wont change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesnt modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren't affected when that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that dont, the set of objects each part applies to is determined independently.
here are some initial thoughts on teh past couple of comments:
1st: Selfless Spirit
BW Eldrazi is a Midrange-Deck in it's purest form, so therefore it's mandatory to avoid situational Cards like Spirit.
One thing this deck should be build around is, that as many cards as possible must be good topdecks.
Spirit doesn't fit that bill. The thing that it does add to teh deck, it's that it prevent a huge supreme verdict blowout.
It does not prevent terminate or path in a reliable way - that's where Spellskite really shines (a card
i highly advise if you need a reliable 2-Drop). It even slows down valakut, the molten pinnacle.
If we are concerned 'bout Anger or Verdict, i expect it's better to not over-extend into it or strip those Cards wiht Discard-Spells.
I always board a burrenton forge-tender against decks with Anger. That's totally fine.
2nd:Surgical Extraction
Yeah, i know it's not blowing anyone out of teh match.
But hell, we ain't got fulminator mage or lost legacy (costs BB and therefore hard to cast).
So there isn't anything that i could really expect in this place. Memoricide and
stain the mind are way too slow.
Green @ it's best
I don't know if selfless spirit is a good fit for the deck but I would like to correct a few things:
Think of selfless spirit as a 2/1 flying beater for 2 mana that can protect your creatures. This is a possible replacement for tidehollow sculler, if you run that kind of list. They fill very different roles but is a better late game top-deck than tidehollow sculler.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Round 1: BW Tokens
Match 1 he had a slow start and stripped my Sorin, Solemn Visitor.
I did Brutality and knew from there on that he had no Gas.
I drew into some Eldrazi and overwhelmed him. 1-0
Match 2 was literally teh same. He had Spectral Procession, but i traded favorably with Matter Reshaper
and finally overwhelmed him again. 2-0
Round 2: UWr Nahiri
I had to mull, but he was stuck on 2 Lands for a couple of turns. I couldn't handle Ancestral vision and he drew 3 Cards off it.
What to expect of 3 CArds? He drew into 3 Lands and finally couldn't keep up. 1-0
Match 2 i saw his hand (collective brutality) and he had 4 path to exile!
I slammed Eldrazi's and brought him down to 2 life until he dropped a elspeth, sun's champion.
I had no board and was out of Cards. My opponent had quartered my sea gate wreckage.
He passed and i topdecked reality smasher ftw. 2-0
Round 3: Green Stompy
Here's where my luck ended.
Match 1 i was totally screwed. I mulled to 6 and was stucked on 2 Lands for a long time being.
I finally did TKS, but his leatherback baloth + aspect of hydra were enough to beat me finally.
0-1
Match 2 i was screwed too. I've mulled to 6 with a mediocre hand. He dropped threat after threat and i found 0 Removal.
0-2
Round 4: UR Thing in the Ice
Match 1 i saw Monastery swiftspear and put him on Delver.
Then Thing in the ice came. Ok.
I had no removal for TiTi and put out Spirit tokens and Strangler.
TiTi flipped and killed my with double mutagenic growth + Apostel's blessing.
0-1
I was pretty damned sure he had no Blood Moon, as he told me a week ago.
Now he had and i wasn't prepared.
Match 2 i fetched Shrine and dropped Matter reshaper, which hits for 12 consecutive damage.
He dropped T3 Moon and i was overall screwed. He bolted Reshaper and i found another one off of my deck.
Then came Bedlam Reveler and Titi on his side, which closed teh game in like 2 Turns.
0-2
Thoughts:
After these Matches i instantly switched teh following:
- 1 (of 2) Brutality
- 1 Sorin
- 1 IoK
+ 2 thoughtseize
+ 1 timely reinforcements
As you can see - 2 Discard, + 2 Discard, - 2 Lifelink-Card, + 1 Lifelink-Card.
I had teh feeling i needed more B-Discard and IoK had been a bit underwhelming.
I'm really looking for something else instead of Reinforcements. Sorin was too low of an impact,
so i switched him to my sideboard. Isn't there any relevant 4-Drop for us, kind of Siege Rhino?
I had also teh idea to pack 1 Card for grind-MU's.
Maybe Sorin, Grim Nemesis or Ob nixilis reignited?
Green @ it's best
I played the same list I’ve been on for the past couple months with a small tweak to the SB to improve the match against Dredge and hopefully Valakut decks:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Marsh Flats
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creature (15)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
1 Anguished Unmaking
Sorcery (8)
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
Artifact (6)
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Mind Stone
Planeswalker (1)
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wrath of God (still wanting Damnation back dammit)
1 Stony Silence
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Collective Brutality
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Wastes
vs. Naya Burn: 2-0 (1-0)
I now feel that this match is pretty favorable overall, best of three. Brutality is an absolute house, and Strangler and Reshaper are both outstanding here as well. Lifegain from the side is also important, though I didn't need it this time.
Notable plays: processed a Rift Bolt to kill a Swiftspear in G1; took zero damage from Eidolon over three turns in G2, landing Seer, Smasher, and then Sorin.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Timely x1, Bomb x2, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseixe x3, Unmaking x1, Relic x2, Cavern x1
vs. Mono-W Death & Taxes: 1-2 (1-1)
Awesome match with crazy game states. In G1 I removed his T2 Vial with my sole maindeck Unmaking before it could come online, which led me to feel pretty confident. I ended up stabilizing at 4 life with Spirit token blockers and a hand full of power, but he was able to slip past my Spirits by using Brave the Elements. In G2 he landed a T2 Arbiter while I had white mana up. I Pathed his Dryad Militant EOT (having Souls in hand) and then used a Ghost Quarter to get one of his lands. Over the next few turns we worked together to play a total of FIVE Ghost Quarters and THREE Paths (!) under that same Arbiter, before I removed it with Ratchet Bomb. After I killed his dude he was left mana-less as I drew lands to cast my hand full of Spirits and Eldrazi. In G3 I once again stabilized at low life with Spirit chumps, but lost to a topdecked Brave the Elements.
Notable Plays: Using my own GQs to wreck his manabase (with no Vial in play) under his Arbiter.
SIDE IN: Needle x2, Bomb x2, Alliance x2, Unmaking x1, Brutality x1, Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Thoughtseize x3, Cavern x1
vs. Sun and Moon: 2-0 (2-1)
I’d never played against this deck before, and I don’t usually track changes to the meta closely, so it was new to me. I wondered what he was up to after he mulled to 6, opened with a maindeck Leyline of Sanctity, and then passed without playing a spell for the first few turns (no Moon or Chalice). In G1 two Smashers were key in removing Chandra and Gideon, while Vent was essential in cleaning up walkers too, after they’d minused to remove the creature threats I was landing. In G2 I played around Moon by Pathing a Strangler in response to it, getting a Wastes. Two more Smashers closed that game out for me as well.
Notable plays: Playing around Blood Moon using Path; Ghost Quarter can also do this when needed.
SIDE IN: Unmaking x1, Bomb x2, Needle x2, Extraction x2 (had nothing else good and hoped to possibly hit a walker), Wastes x1
SIDE OUT: Relic x4, Go for the Throat x1, Brutality x1, Cavern x1
vs. BR Bridgeless Rack brew: 2-1 (3-1)
This was a pretty easy match--because no Bridge--but also a weird one. In G1 I got 3x Lingering Souls in hand by like T4 and easily won with an army of flyers while he drew zero sweepers. In G2 I stupidly played right into a T3 Blood Moon that I should have seen coming, and ceded at 20 life after he landed a Kalitas and I had only Mountains on the field and in hand.
Notable plays: In G3 I kept my Relic active and used it as I intended to save my own Smashers from his Surgical Extraction, which is a card that always features in Rack decks.
SIDE IN: Timely x1, Alliance x2, Bomb x2, Unmaking x1, Wastes x1 (in G3)
SIDE OUT: Thoughtseize x3, Brutality x1, Go for the Throat x1, Cavern x1 (in G3)
Top 8
vs. BR Rack: 2-0 (1-0)
Same guy, same story, easy win. However in G2 he sided in his entire board (!) but somehow managed to flood anyway in the late game. BUT he also managed to Extract all my Smashers, Slaughter Games all my Seers, and then look at my hand later in the game using Thoughtseize to take a Reshaper, leaving me with only all 4 Paths in hand (!) which he got with another Games on the next turn. Bizarre. Vent closed this one out for me as he failed to draw a Bolt.
vs. Grixis Delver: 1-2 (1-1 and eliminated)
Usually this match isn’t too bad if I can get rid of an early Delver. In G1 2x Lingering Souls plus TKS made it easy, but in both G2 and G3 I somehow managed to miss all my removal save one card (Path in G2 and Blessed Alliance in G3) in each game. It was a frustrating loss, as I have a gazillion ways to kill a Delver when I need to, but couldn’t find any of them in these games. I also drew all four Relics in BOTH of these games, cracking them to draw more lands, more Relics, and stuff like the easily-chumped Reshaper. Bummer. I think I should have sided differently in this match.
Notable plays: In G2 I intentionally threw my only in-hand Path into a Mana Leak I’d seen earlier on his T3 EOT , in order to make way for my own T3 Seer. Turned out that Delver killed me. I also mis-sequenced in G3 and cast a Souls into a Spell Pierce I could have avoided by being smarter.
SIDE IN: Alliance x2, Bomb x2
SIDE OUT: Unmaking x1, Sorin x1, Brutality x1
Thoughts: Mind Stone proved its worth again today by getting me to 4 mana when I would have been dead without it in G1 of round 4 in the Swiss. It is also part of the plan against Blood Moon and I view it as essential to the build.
I don’t worry about Blood Moon anymore, by the way; with three B/W fetches, four basics in all my “colors" post-board, three Ghost Quarters, four Paths, and two Stones, I can just about always find a hand that will allow me to get the mana I need. Thoughtseize (or Seer on the play, with Temple) can rip Moon out of hand, and Bomb can get it after it has landed. Unmaking can hit it as well, if the Swamp and Plains are in play, as they are a surprising amount of the time. Most decks with Moon are not very fast and leave me enough breathing room to pull these tricks off, as long as I am playing with this end in mind.
If I hadn’t misplayed (and gotten a little unlucky) in the semis, there is no reason I couldn’t have won the event, since Affinity was the other player in the finals. I feel the deck is pretty well-placed—as much as any midrange deck is right now anyway—and I still enjoy the many angles of attack, and the versatility, a great deal.
What is your decklist? Is it the one posted here? What is your current sideboard? I would like to comment more, but I need to know your decklist and sideboard first.
The relevant 4-drop for us is thought-knot seer and reality smasher (if you have eldrazi temple of mind stone on the battlefield). These two cards are a million times better than siege rhino.
Just a few points because I don't have much time right now.
Good job though! I am back on the mind stone train! Blood moon is a thing of the past.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
I think the big thing in Damnation vs. Wrath isn't really a mana issue as it is there's just more creatures/spells that give protection to white.
I am definitely a fan of EE, I think it's such a sick card because so many problem creatures are CMC 2 or less, and as herfs said it can be a turn faster than ratchet bomb, and late game can blow up for 0-2 CMC on 1 turn. I actually run 1 ratchet and 2 EE total in my 75, I've been liking the versatility of ratchet bomb in the maindeck.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
You are right about Brutality and the Delver match, herfs. That was a mistake, since Brutality can also kill a flipped Delver. However I have to say that I'm not sure I'm sold on your other ideas yet.
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
guess i need to post my decklist
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 godless shrine
3 shambling vent
4 eldrazi temple
4 caves of koilos
3 ghost quarter
1 sea gate wreckage
2 swamp
1 plains
Creatures
4 wasteland strangler
3 matter reshaper
4 thought-knot seer
3 reality smasher
3 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
1 collective brutality
1 declaration in stone
4 lingering souls
4 path to exile
Others
1 sorin, solemn visitor
4 relic of progenitus
2 mind stone
2 ratchet bomb
2 stony silence
1 rest in peace
1 dismember
1 collective brutality
1 blessed alliance
1 burrenton forge-tender
1 disenchant
1 celestial purge
1 anguished unmaking
1 ghostly prison
2 pithing needle
I'm testing on a daily base and because of that put back Sorin, as it proved to be better than
Timely. My sideboard is tweaked towards permanent-removal (wish we had a 3-Mana Nevinyrral's disk).
The 3/2 split of IoK / 'Seize feels better and gives me more flexible side-in / side-out decisions.
Green @ it's best
Here's the link: http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/yahennisexpertise.html
This card seems insane for us, as it doesn't kill our big dudes, and deals with selfless spirit
Right now i'm trying 2 thought seizes and 2 brutality, but feel like only 2 T1 discard is a little risky on the current meta. Also playing a split of 2 matter reshapers and 2 displacers, the latter as a threat removal more than a TKS blinker. reseting a Delver or tapping some troublesome creatures to land TKS blows is really good, because of lack of evasion.
Also thiking of dropping sea gate wreakage for a second vault or OGT oran-rif.
Yesterday I saw a list somewhere running 1-of Phyrexian metamorph. Do you think it could be a thing? as a 5th smasher/TKS?
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
I dunno, doesn't seem super great, can't cast any of our strong creatures off of it and like Sburani said for 4 mana I'd prefer to cast Damnation. That being said against go wide decks like elves it may be worth it.
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
I definitely agree, Damnation is better since they are both double B and 4 CMC. This card is maybe better than flaying tendrils in that it's easier to cast double B on T4 rather than T3. Also getting a free 3-cost spell on T4 doesn't seem very exciting for this deck. Question: If I play lingering souls with the free cast, do they resolve after the -3/-3 resolves? Lastly, Damnation is solid in matchups like bant eldrazi and jund, which this new card would basically do not even close to as much of a boardwipe.
That's the same reason I love the deck, it may not beat down as well as bant eldrazi, or jund as well as jund, but the games are exciting and the different angles to winning keep it fresh. I was actually thinking the same thing for discard, cutting my ratchet bomb from the main to get back to 4 discard, and running a 2-2 split of CoBr and seize. My thought was CoBr is a waaay better late game top deck and I hate drawing dead cards. But like you I'm not totally convinced, there are some matchups where you really really want to seize T1 or T2 (bant eldrazi and bogles for example). I don't see the two life loss on seize as a factor to not run it, we've got plenty of main deck lifegain.
Edit: I wouldn't recommend a second vault, it is an absolute beast when it's effect is usable, but when it's not it's just a wastes and I'd recommend some B/W land instead to help with casting colored cards.
Phyrexian Metamorph does look interesting. I hadn't seen that card before, but if I had to guess why it's not played it's because we have to pay 2 life every time to cast it since we have no blue source. And playing it on T3 to get that ramp value from the Phyrexian mana would really only come into play with an opening hand like this: 2x temple, TKS, a 3rd land, and metamorph. That won't happen too often.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
What about a sort of sideboard/flexslot guide or post? It would be a table with the left column being 30 or so of the most poplular decks, top column would be best flex/SB cards, and the table would have an 'x' to mark where a certain card is good/sided in in a particular matchup. It could also include In/Out guides for those matchups. I've got similar notes, both a table and In/Out notes, for my local meta that I used to decide on my personal flex/SB cards and could post that over the weekend if it would be beneficial. I will admit though my In/Out ideas are probably pretty bad in some cases, sideboarding in general is one of my weaknesses with this deck.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
YE will have resolved while lingering souls is still on the stack so no, they would not be affected by the -3/-3.
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
2x Polluted delta
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
1x Sea Gate wreckage
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
2x Swamp
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Wastes
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
artifacts
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Mind Stone
spells
1x collective brutality
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
removal
4x Path to Exile
1x Go for the Throat
creatures
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Wasteland Strangler
1x ratchet bomb
1x disenchant
1x zealous persecution
1x declaration in stone
1x Pithing Needle
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x languish
2x Stony Silence
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Blessed alliance
2x warping wail
1x Damnation
Edit: PtE = Path to exile, TS = thoughtsezie, IoK = inquisition of kozilek, RoP = relic of progenitus, CoBr = collective brutality, GtfT = Go for the throat, Dec = Declaration in Stone, BA = Blessed alliance
Deck: Junk
Out: -2 IoK, -1 CoBr , -2TS
In: +1 Needle, +1 Damnation, +1 Zealous, +1 Surgical, +1Dec
Deck: Jund
Out: -2 TS -1 IoK
In: +1 Needle, +1 Damn, +1 Zealous
Deck: Abzan CoCo
Out: -2 IoK, -2 TS,
In: +1 Cage, +1 Damn, +1 Languish, +1 Needle
Deck: Affinity
Out: -2 IoK, -2 TS, -1 RoP, -1 GftT
In: +1 Dis, +2 Stony, +1 Damn, +1 Ratchet, +1 Needle
Deck: (stupid) Elves
Out: -4 Relic, -1 Smasher, -1TKS
In: +1 Cage, +1 Damnation, +1 Languish, +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet, +1 Pithing
Deck: Infect
Out: -1 Sorin, -3 smasher
In: +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet, +1 Needle, +1 Dec
Deck: Bant Eldrazi
Out: -2 IoK -1RoP
In: +1 Zealous, +1 Damnation, +1 Needle
Deck: Merfolk
Out: -2 Relic, -1TS
In: +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet, +1 Damnation, +1 Disenchant
Deck: Burn
Out: -2 TS
In: +2 BA
Deck: Dredge
Out: -2 IoK, -2 TS, -1 CoBr, -1GftT
In: +1 Cage, +1 Zealous, +1 Damnation, +1 Surgical, +1Dec, +1Languish
Deck: Death’s Shadow
Out: -1 Sorin, -2 Mind Stone
In: +2 BA, +1 Ratchet,
Deck: D&T
Out: -1 Sorin, -2 RoP
In: +1 Damn, +1 Ratchet, +1 Needle
Deck: Zoo
Out: -2TS, -1 CoBr, -2 Relics
In: +2 BA, +1 Damn, +1 Zealous, +1 Languish
Deck: Bogles
Out: -4 PtE -1GftT -1RoP
In: +1 Disenchant, +1 Damnation, +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet, +2 Blessed Alliance
Deck: RG Tron
Out: -4 RoP, -1 CoBr,
In: +2 Stony, +1 Needle, +1 Surgical, +1 Disenchant
Deck: Esper Control
Out: -3 PtE,
In: +1 Damnation, +1 Ratchet, +1 Needle
Deck: UW Control
Out: -2 PtE,
In: +1 Needle, +1 Surgical
Deck: Jeskai Nahiri
Out: -2 PtE
In: +1 Cage, +1 Needle
Deck: Grixis
Out: ??
In: ??
Deck: Blue Moon
Out: -1 PtE, -1 GftT, -2 RoP
In: +1 Disenchant, +1 Ratchet, +2 Warping Wail
Deck: Soul Sisters
Out: -4 Matter
In: +1 Damnation, +1 Languish, +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet
Deck: KiKi Chord
Out: -1 CoBr, -2TS
In: +1 Cage, +1 Damn, +1 Needle
Deck: Scapeshift
Out: -3PtE
In: +2 Warping Wail, +1 Surgical
Deck: Living End
Out: -4 Wasteland Strangler
In: +1 Surgical, +1 Damnation, +2 Warping Wail
Deck: Ad Nauseam
Out: -4 PtE, -1 Sorin, -1GftT
In:+2 Stony, +1 Disenchant, +1 Needle, +1 Ratchet +1 Surgical
Deck: Reanimator
Out: -1 PtE, -1 GftT
In: +1 Surgical, +1 Needle
Deck: TiTi Ascension
Out: -2 RoP
In: +2 Warping Wail
Deck: Storm
Out: -4 PtE, -1 Sorin,
In: +1 Cage, +1 Disenchant, +1 Zealous, +1 Ratchet, +1 Dec
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
Rule for reference:
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set wont change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesnt modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren't affected when that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that dont, the set of objects each part applies to is determined independently.
UBR Grixis Death's shadow
Creatures with protection from white still die to wrath of god.