Thoughts on a 1 of Orzhov Basilica? It'd be nice to bounce Bojuka Bog back to the hand to drop again. More ramp is more gooder!
I also like Smother over GFtT only because of how much affinity is running around my meta.
Basilica is not technically ramp, as it costs two land drops to produce two mana. It's also extremely slow, and heighten's our deck's weakness to LD. And with Bog being the only good target to bounce, I don't see it being that strong.
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Yup my Day 1 loses were to burn and tron. Day 2 I lost to Todd Stevens on Naya company. I have tested BW BR and BU. I like BW the best because path has some synergy over bolt. I like cards like slaughter games for a lot of match ups out of the red. Anyone on red should look into play vile aggregate to help the curve, it is also an ingester and hits hard if you curve into blight herder.
That's a quote from a reddit user who I assume is Dilks. I checked the SCG pairings lists, and Dilks did play Stevens in Round 14 on Sunday. I would note that Stevens made it to the Semifinals before losing to Jeff Hoogland.
So those loses look to be in line with what most people have said can be the difficult match-ups for the deck.I asked the poster to consider writing up a tournament report, explaining card choices, match-ups, etc. If he follows through, I'll link it back here.
Hall of the Bandit Lord to give Ulamog haste. I've found that Ulamog is really weak to Path, and often its impact isn't strong enough for its cost and vulnerability. I've lost several games even after a resolved Ulamog.
So for me it's been just the opposite with big daddy Ulamog. The auto 2 for 1 is just so huge and I usually let everything else clear the path for him as he is a 2 turn clock. So far I've only seen 2 primary ways to kill him and that's been Liliana when he is alone and Path to Exile. Both of which usually have to be ripped from the top.
We've had a ton of mainboard discussion, but I'd like to talk about sideboards for a moment. I want to hear what you guys are playing and why. Here's my current board:
3 Timely Reinforcements - I keep increasing the number of this because I love it so much. I find myself putting it in against anything trying to play fairly. It creates very favorable trades or chump blockers, as well as providing a significant amount of life back. Sun Droplet formerly took this card's spot in my sideboard, but Reinforcements has proven to be much more versatile, being awesome in a variety of different matchups.
2 Languish - I play this over Damnation because it lets your creatures live and it can hit Etched Champion. I board this in against anything trying to play a bunch of creatures early.
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Amazing card for grindy matchups, makes a great target for Eye of Ugin that can keep your hand well stocked and provides a massive threat.
On the sideboard, I have always loved Timely reinforcements and agree 100% in it over Sun Droplet. My problem with the droplet is that if you draw it late against burn.. it can be too late. Timely is always good against them and decks like Jund where you can further your 2 for 1 in resources.
I am currently running 1x Damnation and 1x Languish because I have a Damnation. Languish totally fills the slot though and is effective enough at removing threats. There are times where the non-regen and destruction nature of Damnation is better, even if it clears your own board. (Also side note... both hit Etched Champion.. Protection only prevents target and damage, not destruction.)
I actually really like a classic Eldrazi effect like Kozilek primarily for the reshuffle effect he has. Currently we really don't use our yard at all but even though he is susceptible to removal spells, netting 4 cards on the cast and being able to retutor him up again if he gets destroyed seems great for closing out those grindy games. I don't know if we need another top end threat but I think he would be the one we'd use (new Kozilek is also an option once it is released. It can draw us back to a full 7 and has other utility as well (even if minor).
As for the combo decks you are having problems with, I still really like Void Winnower. It is a must answer or Bloom Titan, Scapeshift and Splinter Twin are really SOL. Unlike Mindcensor, it can also close out the game as well. (Be sure to up your GQ count against Bloom Titan and try and lead with it if you have it in opening hand. It really slows down their ramp. They also usually run 1 basic forest for the whole deck so from there you are in profit. Just GQ in response to the Amulet trigger and force them to bounce either their Forest or one of their other lands. Or strip mine them if you see their basic forest in hand.)
That card is really solid. It reuses Wastelands Stranglers. It taps opposing creatures. It exiles token creatures. It removes counters from things (Ooze/Persist) or gets rid of enchantments (Splinter Twin). The card itself isn't a powerhouse but it does offer utility.
Wow, i never thought they would actually print some white eldrazi
Alright, THIS card is what will make me splash white. In addition to all the nuts applications you can even pay the ability's cost with temple mana... AND you can activate it with sculler for instant speed discard! Crazy stuff i tell you...
Just in case I needed any other incentive to lean towards BW Eldrazi:
Well that is certainly a thing. I am unsure exactly what we would use it on... we have a couple EBT's but nothing major. It does make for some interesting interaction with our opponents creatures though. Also with Eye of Ugin out it's like we get a White Nactal which is cool.
This deck is picking up steam. Starcity posted today Sam Black with a version of this deck, and Todd Anderson piloting it against Tom.
That is under premium right? Anyone know if the video will become free eventually? (I seem to recall after a few days they usually do). I'd seriously love to watch more folks playing this variant of the deck. Lots of youtube videos of mono black and UB (other than ashiok, I really dislike the UB list).
If you're on the fetchland plan, why do we run two Godless Shrine? The most obvious answer is "in case we lose one". Is that a real risk for us? We could run another utility land in its place.
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What would we cut for this new eldrazi? Seems like we are running pretty tight right now.
Don't get me wrong we want this bad boy, just what would we move around.
I think a sculler/Displacer package should help the Tron matchup slightly as well, since Karn is much easier to deal with if we already have a body or two down when he drops, since he'll want to -3 immediately. More hand disruption in general also help us make sure Karn never happens as well, plus it should help the combo matchups too. Displacer even survives Pyroclasm and can hold off Wurmcoil. What do you guys think of this as a (very) tentative BW list post OGW? I know it's a bit early since we don't have all the spoilers, but it can't hurt to brainstorm a little with what we have.
The Sculler/Strangler/Displacer ratio might be better as some combination of 4/3/2 or 3/3/2 (with either a 4th Sower or an Endbringer) but obviously that would require testing to determine. Vents might be better off as Isolated Chapels or just more Godless Shrines, but whatever. Side can probably be more or less ignored.
EDIT: Should probably have some number of Caves of Koilos in there, since they make all "3" of our colors.
Here's a list someone else posted in the other thread. Personally, I might go -1 Displacer, +1 Strangler.
If you're on the fetchland plan, why do we run two Godless Shrine? The most obvious answer is "in case we lose one". Is that a real risk for us? We could run another utility land in its place.
For me it's in case I have a Godless Shrine in hand (or already in play but used) but want to hold up the fetch for path (or bluff for path). I can take the shock if needed or just take the 1 and get it into play tapped. We don't really ever play any WW spells so we really don't need more than that. Just extra insurance I guess. I am sort of liking the 1x Bojuka Bog utility land but I am not running Expedition maps and so I think it's not worth it.
This deck is picking up steam. Starcity posted today Sam Black with a version of this deck, and Todd Anderson piloting it against Tom.
That is under premium right? Anyone know if the video will become free eventually? (I seem to recall after a few days they usually do). I'd seriously love to watch more folks playing this variant of the deck. Lots of youtube videos of mono black and UB (other than ashiok, I really dislike the UB list).
Although labeled as BW Eldrazi on the site, the deck Sam plays in the videos is actually Mono-Black. He, uh, does not have a good run with it.
Is the manabase still doable at all without Marsh Flats - would running 4 Cave of Koilos and 4 Godless Shrine work is that too much strain? I just don't want to shell out 160+ just to splash white.
I think so, just run some number of maps, caves and basic plains and you should be fine. I took my BW Token Event deck and merged it with BW Eldrazis. Worst case scenario, if the deck starts to suck and loses its hype you won't be upset shelling out just for flats. Or you can use the flats somewhere else.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Is the manabase still doable at all without Marsh Flats - would running 4 Cave of Koilos and 4 Godless Shrine work is that too much strain? I just don't want to shell out 160+ just to splash white.
I don't have Marsh flats but I have been using my playset of Verdant Catacombs. I have never had the need to tutor for a basic plains yet. Seems to work just fine as long as you have a B fetch.
This deck is picking up steam. Starcity posted today Sam Black with a version of this deck, and Todd Anderson piloting it against Tom.
That is under premium right? Anyone know if the video will become free eventually? (I seem to recall after a few days they usually do). I'd seriously love to watch more folks playing this variant of the deck. Lots of youtube videos of mono black and UB (other than ashiok, I really dislike the UB list).
Although labeled as BW Eldrazi on the site, the deck Sam plays in the videos is actually Mono-Black. He, uh, does not have a good run with it.
Ah... I wonder where his struggles with it were at. I about stabbed myself in the earballs last night watching one youtuber (doing UB) and having him constantly misplay, miscount his mana (saying things like, well I don't have enough mana for x.. when he clearly did but wasn't subtracting Eye of Ugin from the cost) and sideboarding out his 1x Newlamogg and then get to lategame and trying to just repeatedly jam Sowers til he beat his opponent into submission (seriously.. if he just left the Newlamogg mainboard he tutors it up the first chance he gets and he would have won in 2 turns.. instead it felt like he gave his opponent 5-6 more draws. His reasoning was "newlamogg just dies to kill spells which won't make it good here" and his opponents weren't playing white for path at all. I think he forgets that it's indestructible.
I didn't watch the whole series because of time constraints this morning, but skipped to his wrap up. He said he lost to Twin, Affinity and one other deck (maybe burn) and beat Merfolk and Grishoalbrand(not hard to do with all our graveyard hate). He was also playing a pretty wonky list (imo) and said he had some troubles with the deck.
Ari Lax posted a video series with an early (imo, untuned) BW list last week that was great to watch, he went 4-1 losing only to the mirror, and he won another mirror match. That one should be available for free before Sam Black's.
I didn't watch the whole series because of time constraints this morning, but skipped to his wrap up. He said he lost to Twin, Affinity and one other deck (maybe burn) and beat Merfolk and Grishoalbrand(not hard to do with all our graveyard hate). He was also playing a pretty wonky list (imo) and said he had some troubles with the deck.
Ari Lax posted a video series with an early (imo, untuned) BW list last week that was great to watch, he went 4-1 losing only to the mirror, and he won another mirror match. That one should be available for free before Sam Black's.
Interesting. I could see our Twin matchup going either way.. 2 bad matchups don't really help the cause but beating merfolk and the incidental gy slaughter probably helped him feel a bit better. I wonder which decklist he is using (as far as how old it is). Seems like each variant is getting further and further tuned and things become much more consistent.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.
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Basilica is not technically ramp, as it costs two land drops to produce two mana. It's also extremely slow, and heighten's our deck's weakness to LD. And with Bog being the only good target to bounce, I don't see it being that strong.
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That's a quote from a reddit user who I assume is Dilks. I checked the SCG pairings lists, and Dilks did play Stevens in Round 14 on Sunday. I would note that Stevens made it to the Semifinals before losing to Jeff Hoogland.
So those loses look to be in line with what most people have said can be the difficult match-ups for the deck.I asked the poster to consider writing up a tournament report, explaining card choices, match-ups, etc. If he follows through, I'll link it back here.
So for me it's been just the opposite with big daddy Ulamog. The auto 2 for 1 is just so huge and I usually let everything else clear the path for him as he is a 2 turn clock. So far I've only seen 2 primary ways to kill him and that's been Liliana when he is alone and Path to Exile. Both of which usually have to be ripped from the top.
On the sideboard, I have always loved Timely reinforcements and agree 100% in it over Sun Droplet. My problem with the droplet is that if you draw it late against burn.. it can be too late. Timely is always good against them and decks like Jund where you can further your 2 for 1 in resources.
I am currently running 1x Damnation and 1x Languish because I have a Damnation. Languish totally fills the slot though and is effective enough at removing threats. There are times where the non-regen and destruction nature of Damnation is better, even if it clears your own board. (Also side note... both hit Etched Champion.. Protection only prevents target and damage, not destruction.)
I actually really like a classic Eldrazi effect like Kozilek primarily for the reshuffle effect he has. Currently we really don't use our yard at all but even though he is susceptible to removal spells, netting 4 cards on the cast and being able to retutor him up again if he gets destroyed seems great for closing out those grindy games. I don't know if we need another top end threat but I think he would be the one we'd use (new Kozilek is also an option once it is released. It can draw us back to a full 7 and has other utility as well (even if minor).
As for the combo decks you are having problems with, I still really like Void Winnower. It is a must answer or Bloom Titan, Scapeshift and Splinter Twin are really SOL. Unlike Mindcensor, it can also close out the game as well. (Be sure to up your GQ count against Bloom Titan and try and lead with it if you have it in opening hand. It really slows down their ramp. They also usually run 1 basic forest for the whole deck so from there you are in profit. Just GQ in response to the Amulet trigger and force them to bounce either their Forest or one of their other lands. Or strip mine them if you see their basic forest in hand.)
Alright, THIS card is what will make me splash white. In addition to all the nuts applications you can even pay the ability's cost with temple mana... AND you can activate it with sculler for instant speed discard! Crazy stuff i tell you...
This deck is picking up steam. Starcity posted today Sam Black with a version of this deck, and Todd Anderson piloting it against Tom.
Well that is certainly a thing. I am unsure exactly what we would use it on... we have a couple EBT's but nothing major. It does make for some interesting interaction with our opponents creatures though. Also with Eye of Ugin out it's like we get a White Nactal which is cool.
That is under premium right? Anyone know if the video will become free eventually? (I seem to recall after a few days they usually do). I'd seriously love to watch more folks playing this variant of the deck. Lots of youtube videos of mono black and UB (other than ashiok, I really dislike the UB list).
If you're on the fetchland plan, why do we run two Godless Shrine? The most obvious answer is "in case we lose one". Is that a real risk for us? We could run another utility land in its place.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Don't get me wrong we want this bad boy, just what would we move around.
Here's a list someone else posted in the other thread. Personally, I might go -1 Displacer, +1 Strangler.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
For me it's in case I have a Godless Shrine in hand (or already in play but used) but want to hold up the fetch for path (or bluff for path). I can take the shock if needed or just take the 1 and get it into play tapped. We don't really ever play any WW spells so we really don't need more than that. Just extra insurance I guess. I am sort of liking the 1x Bojuka Bog utility land but I am not running Expedition maps and so I think it's not worth it.
Although labeled as BW Eldrazi on the site, the deck Sam plays in the videos is actually Mono-Black. He, uh, does not have a good run with it.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I don't have Marsh flats but I have been using my playset of Verdant Catacombs. I have never had the need to tutor for a basic plains yet. Seems to work just fine as long as you have a B fetch.
Ah... I wonder where his struggles with it were at. I about stabbed myself in the earballs last night watching one youtuber (doing UB) and having him constantly misplay, miscount his mana (saying things like, well I don't have enough mana for x.. when he clearly did but wasn't subtracting Eye of Ugin from the cost) and sideboarding out his 1x Newlamogg and then get to lategame and trying to just repeatedly jam Sowers til he beat his opponent into submission (seriously.. if he just left the Newlamogg mainboard he tutors it up the first chance he gets and he would have won in 2 turns.. instead it felt like he gave his opponent 5-6 more draws. His reasoning was "newlamogg just dies to kill spells which won't make it good here" and his opponents weren't playing white for path at all. I think he forgets that it's indestructible.
Ari Lax posted a video series with an early (imo, untuned) BW list last week that was great to watch, he went 4-1 losing only to the mirror, and he won another mirror match. That one should be available for free before Sam Black's.
Interesting. I could see our Twin matchup going either way.. 2 bad matchups don't really help the cause but beating merfolk and the incidental gy slaughter probably helped him feel a bit better. I wonder which decklist he is using (as far as how old it is). Seems like each variant is getting further and further tuned and things become much more consistent.
I can only imagine that mirror matches are going to be this odd land of who has the better draws.