Thank you, next big event i'll be attending is SCG Milwaukee for the modern open. Yes game three against tron I would agree the top decks delivered but thats why we play three ghost quarter.
Your take on Liliana, the last hope is a similar conclusion I've reached, I'll be picking them up soon to test with. It might just be a 1-1 split or a 2-0 split either way like Igunana originally had; but three planeswalker feels appropriate, and spellskite while great is better served in the sideboard if at all, meta dependant.
Last night I took my GP deck to a local mondern night in Chicago and went 4-0, I played Atarka burn twice, boggles once and genesis wave once. Haven't had time to swap out the LotV and Skite yet. Just want to say Collective brutality is a silly silly card same for blessed alliance. In my second match my opponent put himself under a Eidolon lock with me having spellskite out, I just needed to draw lands to activate vents and another creature...I got there.
Last night could've been a lot better. Unfortunately a lot of the games my deck seemed to be against me, drawing a ton of land (even with Sorin, Grim Nemesis +1) and nothing really that I needed. E.g. in 3 games against Living End, which I should win, I have seen 1 single Relic, allowing him to fill his gy and casting Living End (twice in Suspend even). Will do some more testing today online and tomorrow at the LGS again. Sunday is a big open modern event where I would like to play this deck.
I think you reached your own conclusion blessed + PtE, and if you run declaration in stone is more than enough removal. Grim Discovery is is an interesting take, I think the new lili fills a similar role and against the GBx decks they are a very real underdog, we have more ghost quarters, manlands and souls in addition to keeping goyf and flayer in check with a much more consistent manabase. Tidehollow is worded differently than brain maggot and often late game if you have enough mana to double blink you get to permanently exile a card provided you stack the triggers in this order <-Return card <-Take card(placed underneath) <- remove card permanently. Westvale felt win more in my testing.
In addition how has your experience in blinking TKS been as well?
Is blessed alliance maindeck worthy yet, or still sideboard material IYHO?
I am going to test out the removal package you are running Mr. Beautox. My experience with ratchet bombs come from local that loved anything and everything aggro (infect and affinity mainly)
Bliking TKS is a great move against so much of the field, IMHO displacer has a place in this deck. If you knew going into a 4-6 round tournament that the field was going to be > 50% linear aggro then yes, but as it stands now I like it as a 2-3 off out of the board. Keep me updated on your thoughts on the removal package.
So I've been lurking around this thread. I think this deck is really cool and I want to build it. I wonder: What is the reasoning behind the consensus to favor Blight Herder over Reality Smasher? Is it because it's essentially an Eldrazi version of LS, and complements LS's stall/board control groove? Smasher just seems so powerful to me, I would want to run 4 all day.
How often do you find yourself dropping a t1 relic?
So I've been lurking around this thread. I think this deck is really cool and I want to build it. I wonder: What is the reasoning behind the consensus to favor Blight Herder over Reality Smasher? Is it because it's essentially an Eldrazi version of LS, and complements LS's stall/board control groove? Smasher just seems so powerful to me, I would want to run 4 all day.
How often do you find yourself dropping a t1 relic?
Thanks for your collective wisdom.
There are those of us that prefer 4 smashers and 2-3 herders, because smasher puts so much pressure on the oopponent and a 5/5 with trample is among the biggest creatures played in Modern. From my personal experience without gas like a smasher, the deck can run out of steam and fall short of winning the game. This version with no smashers is actually very new and just getting discussed since a recent list has done well at a large tournament. The other big difference with this list is tide hollow scullers, which I am not a fan of. The low curve is nice, and enabling processing on t2 while also getting a creature on board is also nice. However I am not a fan of a BW spell on T2, meaning you have to cut colorless producing lands for more B/W lands and also cutting the colorless requiring smasher. The biggest downside to me in tide hollow is giving their card back if it dies before you get to process it. If you want to win games by locking the opponent down more and maximizing the value of processors and displacer, then go with scullers and herders. If you don't mind a slightly higher curve in favor of smashers as well as more Utility lands, and want to win by going big with creatures, go with that version. Just my personal opinion, but I think BW eldrazi and taxes does a much better job of the lock down strategy. I prefer to play defensive/disruptive in the first turns and then turning the corner and applying heavy pressure to close the game out.
Relic on T1 is pretty common and also a damn good play against a lot of decks. This deck has a natural slow opener so relic is really only competing with discard for T1 plays.
Nice results I must say for a person that's not feeling well
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
Nice results I must say for a person that's not feeling well
Do you find Declaration in Stone often hits just a single creature because there aren't multiple copies in play? Or is exiling that creature worth it nonetheless? And how often does your Wasteland Strangler actually kill something with its processing ability? I find the number of times a bit disappointing actually.
It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
You may be able to play with higher CMC cards when/if the meta shifts to where there's less linear aggro and more midrange and tron (we beat up on other midrange usually and tron keeps midrange decks in check), but right now the format is the fastest it's been in the 9 short months I've been playing it. There's always going to be fluctuating lists to keep up with the format changing.
I lost to Dredge. Game 1 I saw no Relics at all, and most of my hand was removal and disruption so it didn't take him long. On the plus side, he had no idea what I was on going into game 2. Game 2 He blows up my first relic and starts building a board to kill me. I was sandbagging the second and popped it, exiling probably close to 30 cards. He had brough me to 7, but lingersouls tokens kept me in there and I started getting some beats in. Game 3 was similar to game 1, although I actually had a relic when I mulliganed to 5, he had a big turn and just got too much on the board.
Match 2 1-2 TitanShift
I sit down and see a turn 1 Search. Fun. I get blown out pretty hard with my hand feeling really durdly and he had the turn 5 shift. Game 2 was the opposite, where I just tore apart his hand and smashed in. Game 3 went down to the wire, with him pulling out so many mountains that he had no basics to search for when I chost quartered one of his valakuts. Unfortunately, I had drawn 2 wall of Omens and more discard spells with him topdecking, nothing really threatening other than the 2 thoughtknots on board. He topdecked a fetch for the win
Match 3 2-0 Jeskai Control
Felt strong this match, had the diplacer thoughtknot lock game 1 and IoK into Collective Brutality into TKS game 2. Too much disruption and threats for him to recover
Match 4 0-2 Amulet Hive Mind
Game 1 got Hive minded with just a Wall of Omens out. Game 2 got Primetimed with my kill spell pacted. Rough stuff.
Match 5 2-1 8Rack
Game 1 I took out ensnaring bridge and beat down with smashers and TKS. Game 2 I got locked out whil looking for Omens + Displacer combo to stop the bleeding. Game 3 was more smasher time, ripping his bridge.
Had a great time, loved the idea behind the deck, but felt my build was way off. The stony silences just sat there for the entire night, mocking me. The wall of omens did nothing, and the restoration angel was only marginally better. Brutality was great, sea gate did next to nothing, I think it drew me a card once, vault was alright. Conclusion I came to was not enough going on, I can have the disruption and removal, but without some sort of threat, I just look like a B/W Control deck with a subpar late game consisting of unpumped lingering souls tokens. On a positive note, I had smother in place of go for the throat and decided to have a last minute option to GFTT, which actually won me my game against titanshift.
Updated here, hopefully will get a chance to play more this weekend:
Big question is, with Vault, Sorin, 3 Shambling Vents, Kalitas, and CB, do I need to run timely? I get that it's great against aggro and burn, but I already have a significant amount of lifegain MB, and even more via CB and Kalitas in the side, plus I would like to fit in Aven Mindcensor, which would have done some work against both amulet and Titanshift.
I was literally thinking about Mindbender earlier today. I was considering trimming a smasher or something for a single mindbender. Getting a T4 5/5 body and possible double discard is pretty sweet, and that's with the assumption we sacced reshaper for the emerge and also got a draw or free permanent. That is definitely strong. However, you also have to consider how that double discard will drop off in value incredibly fast the later in the game you cast it. If you aren't casting it for emerge T3 or T4, are you really expecting to get even a single discard consistently if you were on the draw T5 or later? Because a vanilla 5/5 body for (8) is not good at all and very much a dead card if you aren't getting some form of value out of it. There is also that if you were to run this, you'd need to probably run 4 reshapers and 2-3 mindbenders to ensure casting it as early as possible as consistently as possible, which means pretty much moving on from processors altogether as something has to get trimmed. Lastly, TKS and Smasher are horrible targets to sac for emerge and have big anti-synergy with the card. I think there's better choices for any flex spots.
Big question is, with Vault, Sorin, 3 Shambling Vents, Kalitas, and CB, do I need to run timely? I get that it's great against aggro and burn, but I already have a significant amount of lifegain MB, and even more via CB and Kalitas in the side, plus I would like to fit in Aven Mindcensor, which would have done some work against both amulet and Titanshift.
I find that against burn I want as much hate in the side as possible, it is a very rough matchup if either your opening hand is atrocious or theirs is insane. You really need a T2 or T3 heal if they are having anything other than a soft opener, and timely is much better than rest for the weary if you can guarentee you get both the chump blockers and the heal. I find that shambling vent is a bit unreliable for lifegain against burn, as you won't be activating until T4 and that's assuming you have two B/W lands outside of the vent itself. Sorin with souls or timely tokens on T4 all but seals the deal against burn unless you're already a topdeck from dead. You do have Kalitas so that's an additional card from the side, but he also won't help you against burn to the face spells. Maybe I just face burn players that get really good hands and draws, but I rarely last past T4 if I'm not casting a direct heal on myself, so I run 1 timely and 2 blessed (or rest for the weary, currently blessed because of bogles which I keep running into and because it can wreck bant eldrazi while they try to swing with a smasher or TKS with an exalted trigger). I've also been liking timely in the merfolk matchup as I feel unless I'm topdecking really badly I want the game to get grindy and go late as my creatures are larger and I save all removal for their +1/+1 islandwalk buffers. Obviously timely is amazing against naya zoo, and I also like it against Jund because to beat jund we out-grind them and out-value them and timely is an amazing value card. Have you considered moving Collective Brutality into the main in favor of 1 inquisition? It'll open up the S.B. spot you want and Coll. Brut. is pretty solid against a lot of decks. It somewhat alleviates those situations where you draw a discard and it's a dead card, brutality has utility which is really good.
As much as i like it, i think this deck should shave Herder completetly, smasher is out of the question. Your list, for ex, i would cut 1 mind stone, 1 gftt or collective b to add 2 more reshapers, and cut the herders for 2 mindbenders. Just for testing.
The issue is not having 5 one mana discard spells. I feel like a good curve for us is almost jund like: T1 Disruption, T2 Removal/disruption, T3 Threat. CB is great, but I don't think its good enough to replace one of the 3 IoK's. You're right in all the MU's Timely is good in, its more a matter of how often I am seeing them in my meta. At least 2 of the decks I lost against would have been hosed by a well timed Aven.
I swapped out the Hallowed Moonlights for Flaying Tendrils, figured I'd rather topdeck Tendrils if there was stuff already on the board that I needed to deal with than to topdeck Hallowed Moonlight. Took 1st and went 4-0, still not missing the Blight Herders.
Round 1 vs. Merfolk (2-0)
Inquisition, Sculler, and TKS ripped apart his hand, and it was quite easy to stomp in from there. Game 2 was much the same. His Cursecatchers just didn't match up with Matter Reshaper, TKS, and Strangler.
All Stars: Inquisition, Sculler, Strangler, TKS.
Round 2 vs. Affinity (2-1)
It's amazing what happens when I actually get my lingering souls in this matchup. Souls delt with a lot of stuff he had, after that I assembled a board of Matter Reshaper, Displacer, and Strangler (which I was able to blink at one point to kill his Etched Champion). Added a Sorin to the mix and that was that. Game 2 he got a turn 1 Steel Overseer, so that wasn't good. Turn 2 I opted to use my Engineered Explosives to kill 2 Ornithopters and an Opal, which took him off of colored mana. In the end, I just couldn't overcome that Overseer, as he got more stuff to pump, and I never saw any more removal for it. Game 3 we got to a board state of me having 4 spirit tokens, a Matter Reshaper, 2 Ghost Quarters, and Vault of the Archangel. I had to mulligan down to 5 this game too, and he never did damage to my life total. He had a Ravager, a few man lands, a couple Ornithopters, and a Signal Pest. The Vault was active, so I just kept swinging in with the Reshaper and holding back the spirits. He even managed to find 2 Platings, and it just didn't matter. When he finally did decide to trade his equiped ornithopter for my reshaper, it got me a Stangler, so that was amusing. Meanwhile, I draw a couple extra lands and a ton of gas with TKSs and Smasher, should I have needed it.
All Stars: Strangler, Lingering Souls, Reshaper, Displacer, Disenchant, Vault.
Round 3 vs. U-Tron (2-1)
Game 1 I had to trade a couple Paths with his TKSs. When things settled down I had 2 spirits and 2 Stranglers atempting to push damage through. He got a Wurmcoil Engine and then an Ugin, and I just could not ultimately combat that stuff. Game 2 and 3 played out similar. Hand disruption was key, especially Scullers, Thoughtseize, and TKS. With his hand decimated and pressure on the board, he wasn't able to find any lasting answers. I also did a trick game 2 where I had Displacer, Sculler, and Strangler on the field and swung in with Displacer and Sculler. He blocked with his TKS, then I blinked my Strangler, processed the card exiled by Sculler, and gave his TKS -3/-3 to kill it in combat. That was pretty neat.
All Stars: Sculler, Thoughtseize, TKS, Path
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Control (2-0)
Game 1 I made so many mistakes but still ended up winning. At one point I had Displacer and TKS, but I screwed things up because I didn't Path his Spellskite first. This was also after ramming a 2nd TKS into a snapped Mana Leak when I knew he had the Snap in hand from a Thoughtseize (and I'm pretty sure I screwed up and forgot to relic some stuff out of his graveyard). When the dust cleared and we were both topdecking, I had 3 spirit tokens and a Reshaper, he had a Wall of Omens and Niblis of Frost. He topdecks nothing but lands, and I pull a Strangler off the top and beat him down will the spirits and eldrazi. Game 2 I wasn't playing nearly that bad, except I did flashback Souls early, and all four spirits met an end of turn Kozilek's Return. Still, TKS brought disruption, and Smasher brought some beats. Pithing Needle had his Colonnades locked down. Lots of back and forth in this matchup. Game 2 I also kept a hand with 2 lands and a map, using the map to get a much needed 3rd land (Eldrazi Temple).
All Stars: TKS, Expedition Map.
Overall, I really like where this list is at. Not too sure about the All is Dusts in the board. They're primarily for midrange decks like Jund/Abzan, and B/W tokens to clear away creatures, enchantments, and planeswalkers. I suppose I didn't use them all night because I didn't run into those matchups, but that U-tron felt like it could have gone much worse than it did.
went 4-0 last night at FNM. Round one I got the bye
Round 2 Jeskai Control with main deck sweepers and a unusual assortment of man lands.
Game 1 Relic and disruption and ghost quarter got there.
Game 2 Endbringer did a lot of work, in addition to blinking TKS with displacer.
2-0
2-0
Round 3 Jund
Game 1 relic forced him to attempt to abrupt decay allowing me draw a card and exile the yards to that point, path his bob, and tks just beats down.
Game 2 Double tidehollow, first taking his K-command then his pulse, he never draws his green source and i'm able to constantly blink my tidehollow that has maelstrom under it to keep his draw steps in hand. Eventually cast blight herder eating both kommand and pulse from underneath the scullers.
2-0
3-0
Round 4 Burn
Game 1 on the play take 2 from godless take another 2 from thoughtseize take his seering blaze, next turn play caves play relic and thoughtseize again, next turn process killing his cat with strangler, and get there going down to 7 total.
Game 2 don't draw a single sideboard card but no big deal, his draw was more creature heavy, souls holds down the fort till I can cast TKS, also at some point in this game i ghost quarter his stomping grounds denying any atarka's commands.
2-0
4-0
These are my current changes, I'm still torn between both Liliana of the veil & Liliana, the last hope. the last hope makes our coin flips better but the veil helps us against our terrible match ups so as it stands now i'm more inclined to play two LotV. Additionally Blessed Alliance is an amazing card but how my 75 currently sits I feel I can move down to 2 copies in the sideboard and reintroduce an endbringer.
But the mana is still bad.... Ideally one wants: 12 C, 20 B, and 20 W to cast matter reshaper on turn 3 and tidehollow sculler on turn 2. Running tidehollow, liliana, and a lot of colorless creatures makes it very difficult to get the correct mana distribution.
Going this route and treating fetid heath just as a colorless brings us to the following 14 black & white sources + 12 colorless, which puts us at 90% probability for T1 black & white & T3 colorless while getting an additional edge with fetid heath and urborg, tomb of yawgmoth.
blood moon is a very small part of modern right now and we've got ghost quarter and emergency path to exile if we really need to get a basic plains or swamp. If it becomes that prevalent you can consider adding basic wastes as well.
Your take on Liliana, the last hope is a similar conclusion I've reached, I'll be picking them up soon to test with. It might just be a 1-1 split or a 2-0 split either way like Igunana originally had; but three planeswalker feels appropriate, and spellskite while great is better served in the sideboard if at all, meta dependant.
Here is the Gatherer entry too. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=382201
In addition how has your experience in blinking TKS been as well?
Is blessed alliance maindeck worthy yet, or still sideboard material IYHO?
I am going to test out the removal package you are running Mr. Beautox. My experience with ratchet bombs come from local that loved anything and everything aggro (infect and affinity mainly)
How often do you find yourself dropping a t1 relic?
Thanks for your collective wisdom.
There are those of us that prefer 4 smashers and 2-3 herders, because smasher puts so much pressure on the oopponent and a 5/5 with trample is among the biggest creatures played in Modern. From my personal experience without gas like a smasher, the deck can run out of steam and fall short of winning the game. This version with no smashers is actually very new and just getting discussed since a recent list has done well at a large tournament. The other big difference with this list is tide hollow scullers, which I am not a fan of. The low curve is nice, and enabling processing on t2 while also getting a creature on board is also nice. However I am not a fan of a BW spell on T2, meaning you have to cut colorless producing lands for more B/W lands and also cutting the colorless requiring smasher. The biggest downside to me in tide hollow is giving their card back if it dies before you get to process it. If you want to win games by locking the opponent down more and maximizing the value of processors and displacer, then go with scullers and herders. If you don't mind a slightly higher curve in favor of smashers as well as more Utility lands, and want to win by going big with creatures, go with that version. Just my personal opinion, but I think BW eldrazi and taxes does a much better job of the lock down strategy. I prefer to play defensive/disruptive in the first turns and then turning the corner and applying heavy pressure to close the game out.
Relic on T1 is pretty common and also a damn good play against a lot of decks. This deck has a natural slow opener so relic is really only competing with discard for T1 plays.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
It's really important to take note of whether or not you have something in your opening hand to enable strangler's processing if your opener has a strangler. A path, sculler, or relic is very important in an opening hand with a strangler and/or Herder. Obviously we can't mulligan away otherwise decent hands to make this happen, but it is key to plan out your first several turns of the game with your opening hand, and determine the hands strength based on how you see the game playing out through those turns.
Those higher cost cards will certainly give you and advantage in the late game, but raising the CMC cost of the deck any higher than it already is will absolutely lead you to games where you have dead cards in hand because you don't have the lands to cast them, and also cause slow openers where you can't recover in a modern format that is fairly quick at the moment. I have firsthand experience playing a higher curve with this deck and I experienced much better consistency when I cut my fun-ofs. You've got to think about whether you want to play spicy, fun, high impact cards, or to perform at the highest level possible. It was sooo hard for me to finally take out my Batterskull, I had it in my list for 6 months. But I got to a point with the deck where I wanted to optimize my list and focus on piloting it as well as possible, and it seems to be going better since I've made that change.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Exactly, that was my experience as well last Wednesday so cutting the Sowers, Ulamog and Sorin again. It doesn't work in this deck and makes the curve way too high.
You may be able to play with higher CMC cards when/if the meta shifts to where there's less linear aggro and more midrange and tron (we beat up on other midrange usually and tron keeps midrange decks in check), but right now the format is the fastest it's been in the 9 short months I've been playing it. There's always going to be fluctuating lists to keep up with the format changing.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Match 1 1-2 Dredge
I lost to Dredge. Game 1 I saw no Relics at all, and most of my hand was removal and disruption so it didn't take him long. On the plus side, he had no idea what I was on going into game 2. Game 2 He blows up my first relic and starts building a board to kill me. I was sandbagging the second and popped it, exiling probably close to 30 cards. He had brough me to 7, but lingersouls tokens kept me in there and I started getting some beats in. Game 3 was similar to game 1, although I actually had a relic when I mulliganed to 5, he had a big turn and just got too much on the board.
Match 2 1-2 TitanShift
I sit down and see a turn 1 Search. Fun. I get blown out pretty hard with my hand feeling really durdly and he had the turn 5 shift. Game 2 was the opposite, where I just tore apart his hand and smashed in. Game 3 went down to the wire, with him pulling out so many mountains that he had no basics to search for when I chost quartered one of his valakuts. Unfortunately, I had drawn 2 wall of Omens and more discard spells with him topdecking, nothing really threatening other than the 2 thoughtknots on board. He topdecked a fetch for the win
Match 3 2-0 Jeskai Control
Felt strong this match, had the diplacer thoughtknot lock game 1 and IoK into Collective Brutality into TKS game 2. Too much disruption and threats for him to recover
Match 4 0-2 Amulet Hive Mind
Game 1 got Hive minded with just a Wall of Omens out. Game 2 got Primetimed with my kill spell pacted. Rough stuff.
Match 5 2-1 8Rack
Game 1 I took out ensnaring bridge and beat down with smashers and TKS. Game 2 I got locked out whil looking for Omens + Displacer combo to stop the bleeding. Game 3 was more smasher time, ripping his bridge.
Had a great time, loved the idea behind the deck, but felt my build was way off. The stony silences just sat there for the entire night, mocking me. The wall of omens did nothing, and the restoration angel was only marginally better. Brutality was great, sea gate did next to nothing, I think it drew me a card once, vault was alright. Conclusion I came to was not enough going on, I can have the disruption and removal, but without some sort of threat, I just look like a B/W Control deck with a subpar late game consisting of unpumped lingering souls tokens. On a positive note, I had smother in place of go for the throat and decided to have a last minute option to GFTT, which actually won me my game against titanshift.
Updated here, hopefully will get a chance to play more this weekend:
2 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Blight Herder
Sorceries
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
Instants:
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
4 Relic of Progenitus
Planeswalkers
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Shambling Vent
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Wrath of God
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Collective Brutality
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Fulminator Mage
Big question is, with Vault, Sorin, 3 Shambling Vents, Kalitas, and CB, do I need to run timely? I get that it's great against aggro and burn, but I already have a significant amount of lifegain MB, and even more via CB and Kalitas in the side, plus I would like to fit in Aven Mindcensor, which would have done some work against both amulet and Titanshift.
My H/W list
I was literally thinking about Mindbender earlier today. I was considering trimming a smasher or something for a single mindbender. Getting a T4 5/5 body and possible double discard is pretty sweet, and that's with the assumption we sacced reshaper for the emerge and also got a draw or free permanent. That is definitely strong. However, you also have to consider how that double discard will drop off in value incredibly fast the later in the game you cast it. If you aren't casting it for emerge T3 or T4, are you really expecting to get even a single discard consistently if you were on the draw T5 or later? Because a vanilla 5/5 body for (8) is not good at all and very much a dead card if you aren't getting some form of value out of it. There is also that if you were to run this, you'd need to probably run 4 reshapers and 2-3 mindbenders to ensure casting it as early as possible as consistently as possible, which means pretty much moving on from processors altogether as something has to get trimmed. Lastly, TKS and Smasher are horrible targets to sac for emerge and have big anti-synergy with the card. I think there's better choices for any flex spots.
I find that against burn I want as much hate in the side as possible, it is a very rough matchup if either your opening hand is atrocious or theirs is insane. You really need a T2 or T3 heal if they are having anything other than a soft opener, and timely is much better than rest for the weary if you can guarentee you get both the chump blockers and the heal. I find that shambling vent is a bit unreliable for lifegain against burn, as you won't be activating until T4 and that's assuming you have two B/W lands outside of the vent itself. Sorin with souls or timely tokens on T4 all but seals the deal against burn unless you're already a topdeck from dead. You do have Kalitas so that's an additional card from the side, but he also won't help you against burn to the face spells. Maybe I just face burn players that get really good hands and draws, but I rarely last past T4 if I'm not casting a direct heal on myself, so I run 1 timely and 2 blessed (or rest for the weary, currently blessed because of bogles which I keep running into and because it can wreck bant eldrazi while they try to swing with a smasher or TKS with an exalted trigger). I've also been liking timely in the merfolk matchup as I feel unless I'm topdecking really badly I want the game to get grindy and go late as my creatures are larger and I save all removal for their +1/+1 islandwalk buffers. Obviously timely is amazing against naya zoo, and I also like it against Jund because to beat jund we out-grind them and out-value them and timely is an amazing value card. Have you considered moving Collective Brutality into the main in favor of 1 inquisition? It'll open up the S.B. spot you want and Coll. Brut. is pretty solid against a lot of decks. It somewhat alleviates those situations where you draw a discard and it's a dead card, brutality has utility which is really good.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
My H/W list
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Wasteland Stangler
1 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
Other Spells (19)
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Expedition Map
4 Path to Exile
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Anguished Unmaking
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
2 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Shambling Vent
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 All is Dust
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Curse of Death's Hold
I swapped out the Hallowed Moonlights for Flaying Tendrils, figured I'd rather topdeck Tendrils if there was stuff already on the board that I needed to deal with than to topdeck Hallowed Moonlight. Took 1st and went 4-0, still not missing the Blight Herders.
Round 1 vs. Merfolk (2-0)
Inquisition, Sculler, and TKS ripped apart his hand, and it was quite easy to stomp in from there. Game 2 was much the same. His Cursecatchers just didn't match up with Matter Reshaper, TKS, and Strangler.
All Stars: Inquisition, Sculler, Strangler, TKS.
Round 2 vs. Affinity (2-1)
It's amazing what happens when I actually get my lingering souls in this matchup. Souls delt with a lot of stuff he had, after that I assembled a board of Matter Reshaper, Displacer, and Strangler (which I was able to blink at one point to kill his Etched Champion). Added a Sorin to the mix and that was that. Game 2 he got a turn 1 Steel Overseer, so that wasn't good. Turn 2 I opted to use my Engineered Explosives to kill 2 Ornithopters and an Opal, which took him off of colored mana. In the end, I just couldn't overcome that Overseer, as he got more stuff to pump, and I never saw any more removal for it. Game 3 we got to a board state of me having 4 spirit tokens, a Matter Reshaper, 2 Ghost Quarters, and Vault of the Archangel. I had to mulligan down to 5 this game too, and he never did damage to my life total. He had a Ravager, a few man lands, a couple Ornithopters, and a Signal Pest. The Vault was active, so I just kept swinging in with the Reshaper and holding back the spirits. He even managed to find 2 Platings, and it just didn't matter. When he finally did decide to trade his equiped ornithopter for my reshaper, it got me a Stangler, so that was amusing. Meanwhile, I draw a couple extra lands and a ton of gas with TKSs and Smasher, should I have needed it.
All Stars: Strangler, Lingering Souls, Reshaper, Displacer, Disenchant, Vault.
Round 3 vs. U-Tron (2-1)
Game 1 I had to trade a couple Paths with his TKSs. When things settled down I had 2 spirits and 2 Stranglers atempting to push damage through. He got a Wurmcoil Engine and then an Ugin, and I just could not ultimately combat that stuff. Game 2 and 3 played out similar. Hand disruption was key, especially Scullers, Thoughtseize, and TKS. With his hand decimated and pressure on the board, he wasn't able to find any lasting answers. I also did a trick game 2 where I had Displacer, Sculler, and Strangler on the field and swung in with Displacer and Sculler. He blocked with his TKS, then I blinked my Strangler, processed the card exiled by Sculler, and gave his TKS -3/-3 to kill it in combat. That was pretty neat.
All Stars: Sculler, Thoughtseize, TKS, Path
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Control (2-0)
Game 1 I made so many mistakes but still ended up winning. At one point I had Displacer and TKS, but I screwed things up because I didn't Path his Spellskite first. This was also after ramming a 2nd TKS into a snapped Mana Leak when I knew he had the Snap in hand from a Thoughtseize (and I'm pretty sure I screwed up and forgot to relic some stuff out of his graveyard). When the dust cleared and we were both topdecking, I had 3 spirit tokens and a Reshaper, he had a Wall of Omens and Niblis of Frost. He topdecks nothing but lands, and I pull a Strangler off the top and beat him down will the spirits and eldrazi. Game 2 I wasn't playing nearly that bad, except I did flashback Souls early, and all four spirits met an end of turn Kozilek's Return. Still, TKS brought disruption, and Smasher brought some beats. Pithing Needle had his Colonnades locked down. Lots of back and forth in this matchup. Game 2 I also kept a hand with 2 lands and a map, using the map to get a much needed 3rd land (Eldrazi Temple).
All Stars: TKS, Expedition Map.
Overall, I really like where this list is at. Not too sure about the All is Dusts in the board. They're primarily for midrange decks like Jund/Abzan, and B/W tokens to clear away creatures, enchantments, and planeswalkers. I suppose I didn't use them all night because I didn't run into those matchups, but that U-tron felt like it could have gone much worse than it did.
Round 2 Jeskai Control with main deck sweepers and a unusual assortment of man lands.
Game 1 Relic and disruption and ghost quarter got there.
Game 2 Endbringer did a lot of work, in addition to blinking TKS with displacer.
2-0
2-0
Round 3 Jund
Game 1 relic forced him to attempt to abrupt decay allowing me draw a card and exile the yards to that point, path his bob, and tks just beats down.
Game 2 Double tidehollow, first taking his K-command then his pulse, he never draws his green source and i'm able to constantly blink my tidehollow that has maelstrom under it to keep his draw steps in hand. Eventually cast blight herder eating both kommand and pulse from underneath the scullers.
2-0
3-0
Round 4 Burn
Game 1 on the play take 2 from godless take another 2 from thoughtseize take his seering blaze, next turn play caves play relic and thoughtseize again, next turn process killing his cat with strangler, and get there going down to 7 total.
Game 2 don't draw a single sideboard card but no big deal, his draw was more creature heavy, souls holds down the fort till I can cast TKS, also at some point in this game i ghost quarter his stomping grounds denying any atarka's commands.
2-0
4-0
These are my current changes, I'm still torn between both Liliana of the veil & Liliana, the last hope. the last hope makes our coin flips better but the veil helps us against our terrible match ups so as it stands now i'm more inclined to play two LotV. Additionally Blessed Alliance is an amazing card but how my 75 currently sits I feel I can move down to 2 copies in the sideboard and reintroduce an endbringer.
2 tidehollow sculler
2 wasteland strangler
3 eldrazi displacer
3 blight herder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Spells 22
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Liliana of the veil
2 Thoughtseize
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Declaration in Stone
1 Collective Brutality
4 Marsh Flats
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Shambling Vent
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
2 Damnation
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Endbringer
1 Collective Brutality
1 Disenchant
1 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
The question is, how many do we run? Should every list run 6 discard spells now?
We typically run 24 lands:
Mandatory:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
Typical others:
3-4 Marsh Flats (To help with blood moon)
2-3 Shambling Vent
2-4 Ghost Quarter
1-2 Plains
1-2 Swamp
0-1 Vault of the archangel
0-1 Wastes
Possible open spots:
X Godless Shrine
X Concealed Courtyard
With a list running tidehollow and liliana, I would try:
But the mana is still bad.... Ideally one wants: 12 C, 20 B, and 20 W to cast matter reshaper on turn 3 and tidehollow sculler on turn 2. Running tidehollow, liliana, and a lot of colorless creatures makes it very difficult to get the correct mana distribution.
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Shambling Vent
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 Swamp
Going this route and treating fetid heath just as a colorless brings us to the following 14 black & white sources + 12 colorless, which puts us at 90% probability for T1 black & white & T3 colorless while getting an additional edge with fetid heath and urborg, tomb of yawgmoth.
blood moon is a very small part of modern right now and we've got ghost quarter and emergency path to exile if we really need to get a basic plains or swamp. If it becomes that prevalent you can consider adding basic wastes as well.
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy