Yeah, while the idea of an opener with double Eye scares me, 23 lands seems a little tight. What other lands are you running, Vault of the Archangel, Caves of Koilos, Shambing Vent?
With an Urborg in play, duplicate Eye's work as Lotus petal. So it's not all bad.
But that's still bad isn't it.
Actually duplicate Eyes are Black Lotuses in that analogy (assuming of course an Urborg in play). Having duplicates isn't always bad either if it gets destroyed (the land is all ready worth 2 lands for every other deck at the minimum....).
You cannot get the extra 2 mana off of a second Eye, it's just a generic bonus granted whenever the card is on the field, so yes, additional eyes are just lotus petals.
Also, I am a huge advocate of having 2 Shambling Vent in the deck. They help recover from the burn match up, and can provide the longest of long game plans, especially in the mirror.
I was looking through cards in gatherer today and i found stonecloaker. Is it any good? Exile enabler with, flying beater, can buy back etb/cast abilities of eldrazis...
Very interesting StoneCloaker! I think 1 copy could be interesting to buy back Blight Herder/Oblivion Sower during end phase or save them from a removal.Not bad even if you "return" a token or counteringSnapcaster Mage target.Even if you keep returning Itself to remove one card It's not bad.
Stonecloaker does not work with Herder, Sower, Ulamog, or any Eldrazi except the Wasteland Strangler.
It costs 3 mana, for a 3/2 which isnt that big. And just exiles a card. Less likely to work well as a "trick" as it just wont come up that often. I would rather run a scrabbling claw cause that cantrips.
Stonecloaker does not work with Herder, Sower, Ulamog, or any Eldrazi except the Wasteland Strangler.
It costs 3 mana, for a 3/2 which isnt that big. And just exiles a card. Less likely to work well as a "trick" as it just wont come up that often. I would rather run a scrabbling claw cause that cantrips.
You may have misread stonecloaker, it doesn't flicker the creature it bounces it back to your hand, allowing you to recast it so yes it works with the bigger eldrazis.
EDIT: it works well with processed tidehollow sculler as well, allowing you to pick another of your opponent's card.
I am liking this Stonecloaker idea a lot, but the list already feels super tight to me. I can see running a one-of instead of a Wasteland Strangler, especially because I cast that card too often without a target in exile to turn it on. Good idea, Ace1.
I'm looking forward to seeing the deck optimized over the next months, especially after Oath comes out.
I picked up a few copies of Sacred Ground for the side, in anticipation of land destruction strategies emerging against us. Thoughts? Crucible of Worlds is another option but costs $50+.
Crucible is just way better. If you don't have Sacred Ground in your opening hand, you're ****ed. You can land a crucible turn 6 and get insane value off of it. Crucible also allows you to reuse ghost quarters which is huge game vs tron. Sacred Ground just isn't good. It also doesn't stop crumble to dust which is the red destruction card of choice in most decks.
Crucible is amazing with Ghost Quarter, and your point about the timeliness of it is good, though it wouldn't stop Crumble to Dust either. (And I think Sacred Ground could work if it were played any time in the first few turns, in most games.) We would also need to be thinking about playing around the nonbo with Relic while we were waiting for Crucible to show up in hand.
It can be tough to spend more than $50 on sideboard cards like Crucible and Damnation, as well. (Are we supposed to avoid discussing card expense in these threads?)
So this is being discussed on the B<> thread but a BW version of processors piloted by Dilks just finished 12-3 in 10th place at SCG. I feel that is a very strong showing from such a new deck and gives me even more confidence that BW is the correct direction to take w/ this archetype (for my play style at any rate).
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Yeah, while the idea of an opener with double Eye scares me, 23 lands seems a little tight. What other lands are you running, Vault of the Archangel, Caves of Koilos, Shambing Vent?
With an Urborg in play, duplicate Eye's work as Lotus petal. So it's not all bad.
But that's still bad isn't it.
You also have to compare it with being able to draw the three land combo. Playing more copies guarantee that you can tap for multiple mana. I have been a proponent of running less than 4 copies of eye and urborg, but lately I think i understand this reasoning more and now i think the payoffs are bigger than the cons.
I just wish we find a something to discard extra cards too so that they retain some value if we draw multiples.
Liliana, if you've got her or are willing to shell out.
I think maybe the 4-of Urborgs and Eyes are best left to the Mono-B build. Path and Lingering Souls mean that we need white available early. But I agree that Liliana could make them work out much better in that shell.
Vault is so amazingly good with tokens that it makes me really want to find room for a one-of Expedition Map, but right now I don't have any Maps in my 75. It really feels like a tight list to me. I could take out my two MB Surgical Extractions and one Strangler for two Stonecloakers and one Map, maybe.
The main board is great. The problem is just tuning the sideboard to some of the less desirable match ups. Tron is arguably my worst match up when playing this deck. Sometimes you just don't get to interact with their lands and they go bigger than you. I also think that 2 main board Ulamog is the way to go. If one bites the dust, you definitely want a back up.
Mono B is trying to have every land they play worth effectively 2 mana. Obviously, Temple taps for 2, Eye reduces cost by 2, and Urborg (With Eye in play) nets you 2 mana. So their gameplan is to cast a sower on T3. Thats their explosive play. In Bx, our splash color lands will NEVER tap for 2. Therefor, most of our powerful draws require our splash color early meaning we can only hope for 5 mana on T3. Thus, there isn't as huge an incentive to jam a bunch of lands that are terrible late game for that T3 consistency. We aren't looking for 6 mana on T3, so we aren't looking to jam 12 lands that all net 2. That said, Lili is a great card. Either in Mono B where she is easy to cast, or in BW where she can pitch a souls. My only qualm is that she seems to make good matchups better and not do much in bad matchups.
This is true, but Celestial Purge and Disenchant can also take care of Moon, and we can get to a Plains we don't have yet through responding to Blood Moon by cracking a Ghost Quarter on our own land, or by using a fetch held in reserve under Urborg. (Blood Moon is another reason to run Expedition Map, too.)
EE seems like a better option against Infect, Elves, Affinity, and Bogles, and is just as good against opponent's tokens as Bomb is. Though it is also true that getting BW early can be pretty tough with this land package if we want X=2.
Actually duplicate Eyes are Black Lotuses in that analogy (assuming of course an Urborg in play). Having duplicates isn't always bad either if it gets destroyed (the land is all ready worth 2 lands for every other deck at the minimum....).
Also, I am a huge advocate of having 2 Shambling Vent in the deck. They help recover from the burn match up, and can provide the longest of long game plans, especially in the mirror.
Legacy: GWB Rhino Fit
Commander: RKurkesh Onakke AncientR
ps: It's me or is this a perverted gargoyle?
It costs 3 mana, for a 3/2 which isnt that big. And just exiles a card. Less likely to work well as a "trick" as it just wont come up that often. I would rather run a scrabbling claw cause that cantrips.
You may have misread stonecloaker, it doesn't flicker the creature it bounces it back to your hand, allowing you to recast it so yes it works with the bigger eldrazis.
EDIT: it works well with processed tidehollow sculler as well, allowing you to pick another of your opponent's card.
I'm looking forward to seeing the deck optimized over the next months, especially after Oath comes out.
I picked up a few copies of Sacred Ground for the side, in anticipation of land destruction strategies emerging against us. Thoughts? Crucible of Worlds is another option but costs $50+.
It can be tough to spend more than $50 on sideboard cards like Crucible and Damnation, as well. (Are we supposed to avoid discussing card expense in these threads?)
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I was wondering about the deck list too, I asked the same question and was told they would go online later today so I guess just keep our eyes open.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Liliana, if you've got her or are willing to shell out.
Vault is so amazingly good with tokens that it makes me really want to find room for a one-of Expedition Map, but right now I don't have any Maps in my 75. It really feels like a tight list to me. I could take out my two MB Surgical Extractions and one Strangler for two Stonecloakers and one Map, maybe.
Blood moon
EE seems like a better option against Infect, Elves, Affinity, and Bogles, and is just as good against opponent's tokens as Bomb is. Though it is also true that getting BW early can be pretty tough with this land package if we want X=2.