With Regionals right upon, I was hoping to get a list of tips and tricks for taking the BW Eldrazi to victory and bring forth it into the tier 1 it deserves to be in. So anyone with tips, please feel free to list and contribute to them. I'm just going to list what I've had personal interactions with, but will expand.
When playing against the infinite melira combo or kitchen finks, you can surgical extraction it or break the relic while the persist trigger is on the stack to remove it and stop those shenanigans.
I've dealt with a goyfs by processing a strangler,flaying tendrils, and a surgical extraction. They combo well together to break apart any graveyard synergy creatures.
Wasteland strangler is great at processing rift bolts and lotus blooms.
In the mirror match, I've found reality smasher to be game breaking and the opponent was convinced to add them to his deck. I cannot stress how awesome the smasher is. I love Oblivion sower, but the threat is real.
I've dropped my number of Eye/Urborg/Map to 2/1/2. Land destruction doesn't cripple me as much as they want. The real weakness is the temples. But as long as they think they can remove 4 eyes or urborgs, I'm more than happy to reveal less. It's also a reason I've been playing less full playsets. Makes surical and slaughter games less effective.
Tutoring up bojuka bog is a thing.(or any land for that matter) Totally changed my mind and made me include a couple of maps since we have some decent lands.
When using GQ or Surgical often try to hold off until their draw step when they've passed priority. For example against Tron most lists run 1 some times 2 forests IF you GQ in their draw step there is a possibly of them getting strip mine'd. Similar with surgical extraction if you're going to take something if possible wait until their draw step to possibly nullify that draw.
I don't really understand this. Is there any other way you can explain how this works?
With Regionals right upon, I was hoping to get a list of tips and tricks for taking the BW Eldrazi to victory and bring forth it into the tier 1 it deserves to be in. So anyone with tips, please feel free to list and contribute to them. I'm just going to list what I've had personal interactions with, but will expand.
When playing against the infinite melira combo or kitchen finks, you can surgical extraction it or break the relic while the persist trigger is on the stack to remove it and stop those shenanigans.
I've dealt with a goyfs by processing a strangler,flaying tendrils, and a surgical extraction. They combo well together to break apart any graveyard synergy creatures.
Wasteland strangler is great at processing rift bolts and lotus blooms.
In the mirror match, I've found reality smasher to be game breaking and the opponent was convinced to add them to his deck. I cannot stress how awesome the smasher is. I love Oblivion sower, but the threat is real.
I've dropped my number of Eye/Urborg/Map to 2/1/2. Land destruction doesn't cripple me as much as they want. The real weakness is the temples. But as long as they think they can remove 4 eyes or urborgs, I'm more than happy to reveal less. It's also a reason I've been playing less full playsets. Makes surical and slaughter games less effective.
Tutoring up bojuka bog is a thing.(or any land for that matter) Totally changed my mind and made me include a couple of maps since we have some decent lands.
One thing I'd say is that remember your processor interactions with ANYTHING in exile. You reminded folks about Suspend cards which is 1 aspect. Remember that you can process spells with Rebound, Imprinted cards on Isochron Scepter and cards put in "hideaway" via windbrisk heights.
Remember that you can respond to Snapcaster targeting a spell in order to exile their yard (or the spell itself) to leave them unable to cast it.
Against goyf decks, keep a note of what cards you have or could have in your graveyard and be sure to process those same card types back into your opponents GY. This will ensure opposing Goyfs are as small as possible. As usual, try and avoid creatures if able due to Scavenging Ooze.
With less and less Oblivion Sowers being ran.. remember to process lands over other gas when able.
When in doubt on sideboarding, bring in Surgical Extraction.
The order in which you drop your lands is EXTREMELY important. You don't want to lead off with Cave of Koilos when you are sitting on a Temple and TKS in hand with no T1 Discard. The reasoning for this is there is a CHANCE you could draw into an Eye or Temple and be able to turn 2 TKS which is a crazy powerful play. Along this same line, the best way to dodge land destruction is to delay dropping important lands until you need them. I have had some games where I get to 7 mana and can drop Eye and tutor on the same turn. Eye is very situationally dependant as to when you play it straight up or when you lag it out. You mainly have to get a feel for it. One of the most notorious lands I do this with in the deck is Vault of the Archangel. If you jam it early, you let your opponent see that you are 1 land away from activation and they might play around this. (Burn in particular might hold up Skullcrack/Atarka Command in game 1). Instead I hold onto it until Turn 5 where I can just drop it, swing and activate. This can catch people off-guard and force them to make bad trades as well as let you gain a lot of life. Subtle interactions like this can make the difference in some games.
That land one is something I use a lot and takes a lot of time to get used to. You have to remember what is in your hand and what you could potentially draw that would change your mind on your land drops. If your opponent drops an early GQ and you have a Map in hand... feel free to throw out an eye of ugin and not reveal the map. Let them GQ it, get you ahead in a land and then tutor it up the next turn.
When using GQ or Surgical often try to hold off until their draw step when they've passed priority. Similar with surgical extraction if you're going to take something if possible wait until their draw step to possibly nullify that draw.
I can vouch for all of these tricks except the last, which I wasn't clever enough to figure out for myself. The land sequencing is indeed extremely important. I sometimes hold back info about my deck, to keep my opponent guessing, if that is appropriate; for instance if I plan to T1 IoK, T2 Thoughtseize, T3 Lingering Souls, I might not play a Caves or Temple if I can avoid it, unless a draw makes doing so a better play, of course.
Don't forget that a second main phase Strangler can clean up after what looked to the opponent like an easy block. Planning for this can pay off very well. If you can connect with this, you can then bluff it later in the match.
Of course we can fetch or GQ ourselves in response to Blood Moon, or GQ ourselves to dodge a Crumble to Dust or Spreading Seas.
As has been mentioned, vs. GW decks, watch out for the Smiter/Liege discard onto the battlefield during removal of Smasher. Play around it, because it is a huge tempo swing.
Can't think of any more right now but thought I'd chime in with what I got.
Okay I have a few questions for the masses. In my playtesting as of late, I am starting to see some real abuse in playing the mid-range aggro game. I am actually looking at dropping oblivion sowers and going more token rush. On the other note I like having the sowers available to abuse ghost-quarters too.
Use this as the base for a more aggro focused clock. This can be supported with 1-2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Vault of the Archangel. TKS supports smasher pretty well (including making him almost unkillable without a huge card advantage lose for your opponent). Now I am looking at solutions like Eldrazi Mimic as a T1-2 drop with eye. I am also looking at the options to run Lingering souls to reach over.
Pretty standard, run 4-6 hand hate and 4x PTE. This is a pretty solid control package, which can be optimized by the sideboard for each individual match.
The hardest part IMHO is getting white sources out. Once we have a black and white source mana is easy at that point.
This or something very similar is what I feel like our core needs to be. Ghost quarters are starting to gain more importance given Tron popularity, helps with infect and all the manlands, and helps to keep scapeshift in check (killing valakut's is a good thing) plus what happens when he only has a few mountains left after you make him play them? I am on the fence with moving eye down to 4, just because temple/eye in your opener is such a strong play. Might move it down to 3 and play a map in its place. I also want to abuse Grim discovery in the board against matches like tron, infect, Scapeshift. Right now I prefer it to crucible due to the fact I can play a T2 or T3 ghost quarter, and loop it again. This is a key hit against tron, as hitting them twice is much more of a slowdown to their deck than just one land. Plus if something somehow died, bring it back and smash face.
Against the Tron match, I would recomend 2 main targets in their deck, Oblivion stone and Karn. We can handle a wurmcoil, and he has more fixing pieces than we know what to do with. I have won matches against tron by duressing or TKS a Ostone or Karn away and all they have is gas and nothing to drive it with. Another note is if they have eye out, GQ that before the tron lands as the can play ulamog easier than we can. In addition they will normally only play one, so if you hit it, then it is done. TKS followed by reality smasher is a huge play as well, as they will loose unless they have an optimal counter. (this match sorin leaves, and grim discovery enters)
With Regionals right upon, I was hoping to get a list of tips and tricks for taking the BW Eldrazi to victory and bring forth it into the tier 1 it deserves to be in. So anyone with tips, please feel free to list and contribute to them. I'm just going to list what I've had personal interactions with, but will expand.
When playing against the infinite melira combo or kitchen finks, you can surgical extraction it or break the relic while the persist trigger is on the stack to remove it and stop those shenanigans.
I've dealt with a goyfs by processing a strangler,flaying tendrils, and a surgical extraction. They combo well together to break apart any graveyard synergy creatures.
Wasteland strangler is great at processing rift bolts and lotus blooms.
In the mirror match, I've found reality smasher to be game breaking and the opponent was convinced to add them to his deck. I cannot stress how awesome the smasher is. I love Oblivion sower, but the threat is real.
I've dropped my number of Eye/Urborg/Map to 2/1/2. Land destruction doesn't cripple me as much as they want. The real weakness is the temples. But as long as they think they can remove 4 eyes or urborgs, I'm more than happy to reveal less. It's also a reason I've been playing less full playsets. Makes surical and slaughter games less effective.
Tutoring up bojuka bog is a thing.(or any land for that matter) Totally changed my mind and made me include a couple of maps since we have some decent lands.
When using GQ or Surgical often try to hold off until their draw step when they've passed priority. For example against Tron most lists run 1 some times 2 forests IF you GQ in their draw step there is a possibly of them getting strip mine'd. Similar with surgical extraction if you're going to take something if possible wait until their draw step to possibly nullify that draw.
I don't really understand this. Is there any other way you can explain how this works?
If the tron player draws their forest, when you GQ their land, they have nothing to search for. So basically you destroy their land and they don't get a replacement.
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12 creatures might seem lite, but most GBx decks run 13 + this list is packing 4 copies of souls, 2 wail and 1 sorin to generate creatures. & turning on herder on is fairly easy (4 relic, 4 PtE, 2 Wail, 1 Surgical).
I've been really impressed with both Sorin, its not uncommon to curve herder with process trigger into sorin +1 and usually the game is out of reach.
The manabase breaks down to 14 (11 non tapped) & 12 :symw:. I've reduced GQ from 4 to 3 still affording you the ability to draw it naturally by T3 at 43% of the time, while adding vault.
By removing both sowers and upping herder and bringing in Sorin; I've the effective curve has been reduced. As for the sideboard Flaying has been great but ratchet bomb has continually over performed and left me wanting another copy so I made the switch. I still prefer rest for the weary over timely because of instant speed and interacting with a skullcrack on the stack.
I can't imagine going in with only 12 creatures though. That seems way too light for me (bearing in mind that Wasteland Strangler is a pseudo removal spell as well). All in all I think we are on the same lines (though maybe cutting an inquisition for TKS solves both problems of creature count and still gives you a discard style effect).
Here is my list once again.. gonna see if I can pick up some leylines and run them in the sideboard for Regionals.
Just had the realization that the majority of my ratchet bombs are for Artifacts or Enchantments. I think I'm going down to 1 and upping my Disenchants to 2. Again tweaks will happen along the way and I'll have a tournament report tomorrow for tonight's tournament. As I have said before, I am uber comfortable with where my deck is at. It's by no means perfect but my results speak for themselves that I think I have enough versatile answers to answer whatever gets thrown at me. Here is hoping it happens on Saturday.
Ratchet bomb has been so good against tokens, boggles and affinity and zoo that while flaying certainly has a spot in the 75 ratchet just offers so much value.
12 creatures might seem lite, but most GBx decks run 13 + this list is packing 4 copies of souls, 2 wail and 1 sorin to generate creatures. & turning on herder on is fairly easy (4 relic, 4 PtE, 2 Wail, 1 Surgical).
I've been really impressed with both Sorin, its not uncommon to curve herder with process trigger into sorin +1 and usually the game is out of reach.
The manabase breaks down to 14 (11 non tapped) & 12 :symw:. I've reduced GQ from 4 to 3 still affording you the ability to draw it naturally by T3 at 43% of the time, while adding vault.
By removing both sowers and upping herder and bringing in Sorin; I've the effective curve has been reduced. As for the sideboard Flaying has been great but ratchet bomb has continually over performed and left me wanting another copy so I made the switch. I still prefer rest for the weary over timely because of instant speed and interacting with a skullcrack on the stack.
I can't imagine going in with only 12 creatures though. That seems way too light for me (bearing in mind that Wasteland Strangler is a pseudo removal spell as well). All in all I think we are on the same lines (though maybe cutting an inquisition for TKS solves both problems of creature count and still gives you a discard style effect).
Here is my list once again.. gonna see if I can pick up some leylines and run them in the sideboard for Regionals.
Just had the realization that the majority of my ratchet bombs are for Artifacts or Enchantments. I think I'm going down to 1 and upping my Disenchants to 2. Again tweaks will happen along the way and I'll have a tournament report tomorrow for tonight's tournament. As I have said before, I am uber comfortable with where my deck is at. It's by no means perfect but my results speak for themselves that I think I have enough versatile answers to answer whatever gets thrown at me. Here is hoping it happens on Saturday.
Ratchet bomb has been so good against tokens, boggles and affinity and zoo that while flaying certainly has a spot in the 75 ratchet just offers so much value.
hi I played the list you ran earlier from the event you top8ed with with great results last fnm 30 people went 3-2 losing to affinity and merfolk chalk that up to just picking up the deck a few days before ...I will run one of your lists again in my meta all the top decks and a few developing decks will be there like blue moon and Koth.deck Wich of the 2 lists you've shown do you think would be the best? I also have been wanting more wbombs. It gets around so much for the deck
Relics are very good. Creature removals/wraths are very good. Lingering souls are not as much. Surgicals are fine.
Not sure if I'll bring in Memoricide though. And you should probably name Chord of Calling with them.
So my plan is this: -2 Lingering Souls +2 Surgical Extraction
I know he's not an Eldrazi, but any thought on running a single Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet somewhere in the 75? I feel like he's super good at shoring up the aggro matchups, but possibly too slow (also, the BB cost). I'm tempted to run a singleton at regionals.
With Regionals right upon, I was hoping to get a list of tips and tricks for taking the BW Eldrazi to victory and bring forth it into the tier 1 it deserves to be in. So anyone with tips, please feel free to list and contribute to them. I'm just going to list what I've had personal interactions with, but will expand.
When playing against the infinite melira combo or kitchen finks, you can surgical extraction it or break the relic while the persist trigger is on the stack to remove it and stop those shenanigans.
I've dealt with a goyfs by processing a strangler,flaying tendrils, and a surgical extraction. They combo well together to break apart any graveyard synergy creatures.
Wasteland strangler is great at processing rift bolts and lotus blooms.
In the mirror match, I've found reality smasher to be game breaking and the opponent was convinced to add them to his deck. I cannot stress how awesome the smasher is. I love Oblivion sower, but the threat is real.
I've dropped my number of Eye/Urborg/Map to 2/1/2. Land destruction doesn't cripple me as much as they want. The real weakness is the temples. But as long as they think they can remove 4 eyes or urborgs, I'm more than happy to reveal less. It's also a reason I've been playing less full playsets. Makes surical and slaughter games less effective.
Tutoring up bojuka bog is a thing.(or any land for that matter) Totally changed my mind and made me include a couple of maps since we have some decent lands.
When using GQ or Surgical often try to hold off until their draw step when they've passed priority. For example against Tron most lists run 1 some times 2 forests IF you GQ in their draw step there is a possibly of them getting strip mine'd. Similar with surgical extraction if you're going to take something if possible wait until their draw step to possibly nullify that draw.
I don't really understand this. Is there any other way you can explain how this works?
If the tron player draws their forest, when you GQ their land, they have nothing to search for. So basically you destroy their land and they don't get a replacement.
I think in an open field where you're expecting 30+% of the meta to be very linear jam the updated list with sorin + vault & MD skite they all go a long way.
I've had solid success against kiki-chord but thats in part because of warping wail and MD surgical; it wrecks so much of their deck and exiles it, if you can drop relic and keep their yard in check scooze and e-wit lose so much of their value. as for memorcide and depending if i have an active relic i will name resto.
Can I ask people for advice on the kiki-chord-restoration angel deck that's out there? I'm 0-3 0-4 against it in competitive play.
Kiki-Chord is a complex deck because it has so many lines of play. Kind of like pod used to, it has lots of single creatures and focuses on value. The way they beat you a lot of the time is via out valuing you. They have 2 main engines to creating value: Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki. Obviously when those two cards come together you lose the game.
Ok the first basic line of play they have is chord for witness, chord goes back in hand. Chord for resto, blinks witness, chord goes back in hand and then next turn chord for Kiki and gg. To break this up you need to use surgical extraction on chord with the witness ability on the stack. Chord is your best SE target imo.
Kiki chord gets to critical mass via dorks and voices. Dorks obviously let them chord faster so those are prime removal targets with strangler, wails, dismembers and go for the throats. Save you paths for voice if you can.
Memoricide is you best proactive weapon against them. As I said in earlier posts you want to hit Kiki first, and then chord. Even though they only run 2 kiki's, that card can crush you with value if you are not careful. Kiki+voice produces tons of large creature. Kiki + wall of omens produces tons of card advantages while stalking your attacks. It can create addition spell skites to redirect your paths to ramp them. Basically a ton of badness happens once Kiki hits the field.
Overall when you face th deck, keep the board as clear as you can. They are similar to Abzan combo and pod of yester year. Once they establish a board they pretty much take over by out valuing you. All Is Dust is almost an instant win against them.
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My deck is almost agro, that the reason i was using BR, im thinking to add Ratchet Bomb or Tendrils to MB instead 1x Lingering or 1x Go for the throat.
The other option will be wait with BR a couple of weeks until Pro tour to see how deck is evolving, the Marsh Flats are not cheap xd.
What kind of removal suite should I be running? Currently, I have 4 PtE's, 1 Dismember, and 1 Warping Wail. Should I go with Go for the Throat over Warping Wail mainboard, and is 6 removal spells MB enough?
What kind of removal suite should I be running? Currently, I have 4 PtE's, 1 Dismember, and 1 Warping Wail. Should I go with Go for the Throat over Warping Wail mainboard, and is 6 removal spells MB enough?
I've personally liked Warping Wail enough that I'm never moving off it. It hits enough things early game, exiles instead of kills and doesn't become dead late game.
What kind of removal suite should I be running? Currently, I have 4 PtE's, 1 Dismember, and 1 Warping Wail. Should I go with Go for the Throat over Warping Wail mainboard, and is 6 removal spells MB enough?
6 spells and 2-3 stranglers and 3-4 board wipes in the SB seems about right to me.
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Round 1 Storm (2-1) [1-0]:
Game 1 he had a very slow hand that I ripped with a little bit with early discard and got in with Reality Smashers to close out the game. Game 2 I had a T0 Leyline and pulled a Blood Moon out of his hand with a T2 TKS (Lead with Temple->Map without another Temple or Eye in hand. Topdecked Eye for T2... I mentioned yesterday about setting your future draws up with your land drops. Paid off again.) Hindsight I could have take Pyromancers Ascension but oh well. I had him facing lethal onboard so he attempted to combo off. Took him 12 minutes but eventually he got to an Empty the Warrens with 18 Storm count. I didn't topdeck an answer so gg. Yay Storm... Game 3 I ripped his hand apart twice, this time letting him Blood Moon but taking 2 Pyromancers Ascension. The key difference is I had Relic this game so if he tried to cast Past in Flames, I'd crack the relic and it'd be gg anyway. He blanked and I won.
Round 2 Esper Control (2-1) [2-0]:
This is one of my good friends and he is very angry at the BW Eldrazi deck and insists Eye of Ugin will be banned when SOI gets released. Besides not listening to reason, here is how the matchup went. Game 1 I came out of the game swinging extremely hard and destroyed him. I did over extend towards the end but I wasn't punished for it (thankfully). Realized as soon as I did it that it was likely a mistake (It was turn 5 and I played a second reality Smasher. Second mainphase (I knew he had a cryptic in hand so I let him tap down my team and draw vs counter and tap them down). I should have just held onto Smasher because he was at 5 and if he casts Verdict, I then reality smasher and kill him. Didn't hurt me in the end so whatever. Game 2 I had some pretty bad draws. I got him down to 4 life but he topdecked a Sphinx Rev. This hurt because his only "out" onboard was to block one of the 3 scion tokens I had with his Shambling Vent. I then Sac the blocked token and the 2 remaining Scions and 2 spirits I have kill him. Instead he gained 6 and then took 5. He then cast a verdict. I was in topdeck mode so during my draw step he Esper Charmed me forcing me to discard my draw (it was a path). He then untapped and cast Bribery for my Newlamog (I scooped before he searched my library, so I assume that's what he grabs). I did the math and essentially I had to hope that I could topdeck a Path, hope he doesn't have a counter (still had 4 mana open and had just Sphinx Rev so it was likely). If I didn't have a path, I could take 1 swing and then hope to draw a Reality Smasher (still hope he doesn't have a counter) and crack in for lethal. The odds were way too low for me to draw out of it and I wanted to save time for game 3 in case it went long. Game 3 I grinded him out of things in hand. My sideboarded Celestial Purge came up big on an Ashiok. He did get a Runed Halo on Reality Smasher which stranded 2 in my hand. I still got through for enough pressure and damage to take care of business though. Key play in this game was I used Surgical Extraction on Supreme Verdict removing all 4 he had. This allowed me to go wide and not worry about a sweeper. I didn't put in Leyline of Sanctity for this match but I wonder if I should have. He doesn't run discard but it blanks Esper Charm (other than him blowing up Leyline himself), Bribery, and Ashiok. I think it could still be pretty relevant. This also makes me think it's relevant for the Jeskai control matchup as well because Bolts can't go at my face and if they have a resolved Keranos on an empty board. They have to bolt themselves on Keranos trigger. (or flash in a creature to get bolted.. either way, profit for us). Interesting thoughts.
Round 3 Infect (2-1) [3-0]:
Game 1 We both had extremely awful draws all things considered but I eventually drew into Lingering Souls and that bought me enough time to win. Game 2 I drew really really poorly. He drew a pretty slow hand overall but since I had to GQ my own Urborg for a Plains so I could Path his thing. The main issue was he got 3 Inkmoth Nexus out.. ug. Whatever this is the one game where running only 8 white sources hurt me but the deck has ran really smoothly most of the time so whatever. Game 3 I had a terrible 7. so as I was mulling to 6, one of the best players in the area that I know personally (plays a lot of Jund) and I were talking about how whenever he watches the deck it seems to have bad draws and awful mulligans. I joked that maybe he shouldn't watch Eldrazi players anymore because it was likely his fault. I then drew my 6... man what a 6. 2x Path to Exile 1x Warping Wail, 1x Cave of Kolios, 1x Eldrazi Temple, 1x Urborg... No actual gas but I could kill the first 3 Creatures he played. I drew into TKS and Lingering souls and pretty much won the game from there.
Round 4 Temur Delver (2-0) [4-0]:
Admittedly he had slowish draws but I really took this guy to the woodshed. I ripped his hand apart with discard and TKS. Blight Herder closed out game 1 and Reality Smasher x2 closed out game 2. Game 2 was especially unique because while I wasn't having the greatest draws, I did have a relic in play to keep his GY from being flash backed and I had a Ratchet Bomb on 0. Because of this he was beating me in the face with an unflipped Delver and Snapcaster. He was trying NOT to flip Delver so I couldn't just crack bomb and kill it. This bought me enough time to resolve a lingering Souls w/ flashback on 5 lands and then double Reality Smasher for 6 lands (Eye and Urborg in play... for a 2:1 they come up a lot.. to be fair I did map). he didn't have an answer so he scooped. He said he beat another BW Eldrazi list round 1 and felt pretty good about the matchup overall. Unfortunately, I don't know that guys list though. If it was the guy I faced last thursday, his sideboard was severely deficient in my mind and maybe he just got bad draws or kept bad hands.
Welp.... That is another 4-0. I am now 17-3 over my last 5 tournaments and have won $210 over in store credit over that span (which for me dates back to last Thursday). I think my list is set for Regionals and I am very confident going in. Things in my area have shifted (as expected) to Infect, Affinity, Jund and other various aggro decks with Burn and Tron taking back seats as they get hated out. I think if I can win my first several rounds on Saturday, I might be in a very good position to take advantage of the meta. On the downside, I fear that if I drop a couple early.. I might shift to the hostile back end of the room where Burn and Tron players will reside. I have one more tournament tonight to test out the Leylines (they only came in once tonight against Storm and duress would have been better on the night overall but I still won without duress so I think they stay in for now). Happy Friday yall!
I don't really understand this. Is there any other way you can explain how this works?
Don't forget that a second main phase Strangler can clean up after what looked to the opponent like an easy block. Planning for this can pay off very well. If you can connect with this, you can then bluff it later in the match.
Of course we can fetch or GQ ourselves in response to Blood Moon, or GQ ourselves to dodge a Crumble to Dust or Spreading Seas.
As has been mentioned, vs. GW decks, watch out for the Smiter/Liege discard onto the battlefield during removal of Smasher. Play around it, because it is a huge tempo swing.
Can't think of any more right now but thought I'd chime in with what I got.
My question is going to be firstly creatures
Use this as the base for a more aggro focused clock. This can be supported with 1-2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Vault of the Archangel. TKS supports smasher pretty well (including making him almost unkillable without a huge card advantage lose for your opponent). Now I am looking at solutions like Eldrazi Mimic as a T1-2 drop with eye. I am also looking at the options to run Lingering souls to reach over.
Pretty standard, run 4-6 hand hate and 4x PTE. This is a pretty solid control package, which can be optimized by the sideboard for each individual match.
Lands
The hardest part IMHO is getting white sources out. Once we have a black and white source mana is easy at that point.
This or something very similar is what I feel like our core needs to be. Ghost quarters are starting to gain more importance given Tron popularity, helps with infect and all the manlands, and helps to keep scapeshift in check (killing valakut's is a good thing) plus what happens when he only has a few mountains left after you make him play them? I am on the fence with moving eye down to 4, just because temple/eye in your opener is such a strong play. Might move it down to 3 and play a map in its place. I also want to abuse Grim discovery in the board against matches like tron, infect, Scapeshift. Right now I prefer it to crucible due to the fact I can play a T2 or T3 ghost quarter, and loop it again. This is a key hit against tron, as hitting them twice is much more of a slowdown to their deck than just one land. Plus if something somehow died, bring it back and smash face.
Against the Tron match, I would recomend 2 main targets in their deck, Oblivion stone and Karn. We can handle a wurmcoil, and he has more fixing pieces than we know what to do with. I have won matches against tron by duressing or TKS a Ostone or Karn away and all they have is gas and nothing to drive it with. Another note is if they have eye out, GQ that before the tron lands as the can play ulamog easier than we can. In addition they will normally only play one, so if you hit it, then it is done. TKS followed by reality smasher is a huge play as well, as they will loose unless they have an optimal counter. (this match sorin leaves, and grim discovery enters)
If the tron player draws their forest, when you GQ their land, they have nothing to search for. So basically you destroy their land and they don't get a replacement.
Ratchet bomb has been so good against tokens, boggles and affinity and zoo that while flaying certainly has a spot in the 75 ratchet just offers so much value.
0-30-4 against it in competitive play.Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
Not sure if I'll bring in Memoricide though. And you should probably name Chord of Calling with them.
So my plan is this: -2 Lingering Souls +2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Memoricide
1 Vampiric Link
2 Rest for the Weary
2 Disenchant
1 Celestial Purge
2 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
Ok thanks for explanation.
Kiki-Chord is a complex deck because it has so many lines of play. Kind of like pod used to, it has lots of single creatures and focuses on value. The way they beat you a lot of the time is via out valuing you. They have 2 main engines to creating value: Restoration Angel and Kiki-Jiki. Obviously when those two cards come together you lose the game.
Ok the first basic line of play they have is chord for witness, chord goes back in hand. Chord for resto, blinks witness, chord goes back in hand and then next turn chord for Kiki and gg. To break this up you need to use surgical extraction on chord with the witness ability on the stack. Chord is your best SE target imo.
Kiki chord gets to critical mass via dorks and voices. Dorks obviously let them chord faster so those are prime removal targets with strangler, wails, dismembers and go for the throats. Save you paths for voice if you can.
Memoricide is you best proactive weapon against them. As I said in earlier posts you want to hit Kiki first, and then chord. Even though they only run 2 kiki's, that card can crush you with value if you are not careful. Kiki+voice produces tons of large creature. Kiki + wall of omens produces tons of card advantages while stalking your attacks. It can create addition spell skites to redirect your paths to ramp them. Basically a ton of badness happens once Kiki hits the field.
Overall when you face th deck, keep the board as clear as you can. They are similar to Abzan combo and pod of yester year. Once they establish a board they pretty much take over by out valuing you. All Is Dust is almost an instant win against them.
Im using BR version right now, but im thinking in purchase some Marsh flats and Godless Shrine to make a BW version too.
This is the MB that i was thinking
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Eye of Ugin
3x Godless Shrine
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Marsh Flats
4x Caves of Koilos
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Plain
1x Swamp
2x Go for the throat
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x All is dust
4x Path to exile
4x Lingering Souls
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Artifacts 4
4x Relic of Progenitus
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Reality Smasher
2x Oblivion Sower
3x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Blight Herder
3x Wasteland Strangler
My deck is almost agro, that the reason i was using BR, im thinking to add Ratchet Bomb or Tendrils to MB instead 1x Lingering or 1x Go for the throat.
The other option will be wait with BR a couple of weeks until Pro tour to see how deck is evolving, the Marsh Flats are not cheap xd.
BWC Processors Eldrazi CWB
UBC Emerge EldraziCBU
C Tron Eldrazi C
RBC Meld Eldrazi CBR
GU Tokens Eldrazi UG
I've personally liked Warping Wail enough that I'm never moving off it. It hits enough things early game, exiles instead of kills and doesn't become dead late game.
6 spells and 2-3 stranglers and 3-4 board wipes in the SB seems about right to me.
3x Wasteland Strangler
3x Thought-knot Seer
4x Blight Herder
3x Reality Smasher
1x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorceries(8):
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
Instants(6):
4x Path to Exile
2x Warping Wail
Artifacts(6):
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Expedition Map
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Lands(24):
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
1x Urborg, Tomb of the Yawgmoth
3x Godless Shrine
4x Cave of Koilos
2x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Waste
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Shambling Vent
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Stony Silence
1x Disenchant
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Celestial Purge
2x Ratchet Bomb
Round 1 Storm (2-1) [1-0]:
Game 1 he had a very slow hand that I ripped with a little bit with early discard and got in with Reality Smashers to close out the game. Game 2 I had a T0 Leyline and pulled a Blood Moon out of his hand with a T2 TKS (Lead with Temple->Map without another Temple or Eye in hand. Topdecked Eye for T2... I mentioned yesterday about setting your future draws up with your land drops. Paid off again.) Hindsight I could have take Pyromancers Ascension but oh well. I had him facing lethal onboard so he attempted to combo off. Took him 12 minutes but eventually he got to an Empty the Warrens with 18 Storm count. I didn't topdeck an answer so gg. Yay Storm... Game 3 I ripped his hand apart twice, this time letting him Blood Moon but taking 2 Pyromancers Ascension. The key difference is I had Relic this game so if he tried to cast Past in Flames, I'd crack the relic and it'd be gg anyway. He blanked and I won.
Round 2 Esper Control (2-1) [2-0]:
This is one of my good friends and he is very angry at the BW Eldrazi deck and insists Eye of Ugin will be banned when SOI gets released. Besides not listening to reason, here is how the matchup went. Game 1 I came out of the game swinging extremely hard and destroyed him. I did over extend towards the end but I wasn't punished for it (thankfully). Realized as soon as I did it that it was likely a mistake (It was turn 5 and I played a second reality Smasher. Second mainphase (I knew he had a cryptic in hand so I let him tap down my team and draw vs counter and tap them down). I should have just held onto Smasher because he was at 5 and if he casts Verdict, I then reality smasher and kill him. Didn't hurt me in the end so whatever. Game 2 I had some pretty bad draws. I got him down to 4 life but he topdecked a Sphinx Rev. This hurt because his only "out" onboard was to block one of the 3 scion tokens I had with his Shambling Vent. I then Sac the blocked token and the 2 remaining Scions and 2 spirits I have kill him. Instead he gained 6 and then took 5. He then cast a verdict. I was in topdeck mode so during my draw step he Esper Charmed me forcing me to discard my draw (it was a path). He then untapped and cast Bribery for my Newlamog (I scooped before he searched my library, so I assume that's what he grabs). I did the math and essentially I had to hope that I could topdeck a Path, hope he doesn't have a counter (still had 4 mana open and had just Sphinx Rev so it was likely). If I didn't have a path, I could take 1 swing and then hope to draw a Reality Smasher (still hope he doesn't have a counter) and crack in for lethal. The odds were way too low for me to draw out of it and I wanted to save time for game 3 in case it went long. Game 3 I grinded him out of things in hand. My sideboarded Celestial Purge came up big on an Ashiok. He did get a Runed Halo on Reality Smasher which stranded 2 in my hand. I still got through for enough pressure and damage to take care of business though. Key play in this game was I used Surgical Extraction on Supreme Verdict removing all 4 he had. This allowed me to go wide and not worry about a sweeper. I didn't put in Leyline of Sanctity for this match but I wonder if I should have. He doesn't run discard but it blanks Esper Charm (other than him blowing up Leyline himself), Bribery, and Ashiok. I think it could still be pretty relevant. This also makes me think it's relevant for the Jeskai control matchup as well because Bolts can't go at my face and if they have a resolved Keranos on an empty board. They have to bolt themselves on Keranos trigger. (or flash in a creature to get bolted.. either way, profit for us). Interesting thoughts.
Round 3 Infect (2-1) [3-0]:
Game 1 We both had extremely awful draws all things considered but I eventually drew into Lingering Souls and that bought me enough time to win. Game 2 I drew really really poorly. He drew a pretty slow hand overall but since I had to GQ my own Urborg for a Plains so I could Path his thing. The main issue was he got 3 Inkmoth Nexus out.. ug. Whatever this is the one game where running only 8 white sources hurt me but the deck has ran really smoothly most of the time so whatever. Game 3 I had a terrible 7. so as I was mulling to 6, one of the best players in the area that I know personally (plays a lot of Jund) and I were talking about how whenever he watches the deck it seems to have bad draws and awful mulligans. I joked that maybe he shouldn't watch Eldrazi players anymore because it was likely his fault. I then drew my 6... man what a 6. 2x Path to Exile 1x Warping Wail, 1x Cave of Kolios, 1x Eldrazi Temple, 1x Urborg... No actual gas but I could kill the first 3 Creatures he played. I drew into TKS and Lingering souls and pretty much won the game from there.
Round 4 Temur Delver (2-0) [4-0]:
Admittedly he had slowish draws but I really took this guy to the woodshed. I ripped his hand apart with discard and TKS. Blight Herder closed out game 1 and Reality Smasher x2 closed out game 2. Game 2 was especially unique because while I wasn't having the greatest draws, I did have a relic in play to keep his GY from being flash backed and I had a Ratchet Bomb on 0. Because of this he was beating me in the face with an unflipped Delver and Snapcaster. He was trying NOT to flip Delver so I couldn't just crack bomb and kill it. This bought me enough time to resolve a lingering Souls w/ flashback on 5 lands and then double Reality Smasher for 6 lands (Eye and Urborg in play... for a 2:1 they come up a lot.. to be fair I did map). he didn't have an answer so he scooped. He said he beat another BW Eldrazi list round 1 and felt pretty good about the matchup overall. Unfortunately, I don't know that guys list though. If it was the guy I faced last thursday, his sideboard was severely deficient in my mind and maybe he just got bad draws or kept bad hands.
Welp.... That is another 4-0. I am now 17-3 over my last 5 tournaments and have won $210 over in store credit over that span (which for me dates back to last Thursday). I think my list is set for Regionals and I am very confident going in. Things in my area have shifted (as expected) to Infect, Affinity, Jund and other various aggro decks with Burn and Tron taking back seats as they get hated out. I think if I can win my first several rounds on Saturday, I might be in a very good position to take advantage of the meta. On the downside, I fear that if I drop a couple early.. I might shift to the hostile back end of the room where Burn and Tron players will reside. I have one more tournament tonight to test out the Leylines (they only came in once tonight against Storm and duress would have been better on the night overall but I still won without duress so I think they stay in for now). Happy Friday yall!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5d1KNNFArSMj0Js5MZEn2pm3EZcgf6xT
Some explosive draws with Eldrazi that we all know and love to see!
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots