I don't think red is really that necessary, but it could be if wild nacatl is added.
I like the idea of having goyf/geist as a back up plan incase we never draw retreat.
I also think every land other than steppe, should be sacable by knight, that is really important.
26 land plus 10 mana dorks looks like overkill/flood city to my eyes. I understand that they will be thinned once knight is online, but if you don't hit knight early, you're in trouble.
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I'll say it again, if you want the deck to be consistent the card you want isnt Chord of Calling or collected company. You want Commune with the Gods. The card is legit, especially in a bant midrange shell that can combo out.
I get Commune with the Gods. It works well in a GW Toughness matters Enchantment deck I've brewed up. I also like the fact that if it would catch KotR then whatever lands get put in the graveyard from CwtG buff him up. I will keep it in mind especially if I go towards the combo side over the Bant shell side.
Great ideas being thrown around. Keep them coming all.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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If Retreat to Coralhelm is a part of the win-con engine. Wouldn't we want to be able to retrieve that integral part of the engine using say an Idyllic Tutor? If its about going "infinite" as quickly as possible, we would need to go find/fetch the pieces as quickly as possible and not wait around for top-decking them right?
I would think Collected Company would need to be a must have 3 or 4 in the main deck as well.
Wouldn't we need to protect the fragile nature of removal of our 1 key piece from things like Surgical Extraction in our sideboard as well?
Are there any W U or G spells out there that offer protection to enchantments OR let us tutor them out of our library?
Hi guys, I'm just here to give you the friendly reminder that you can use Flagstones of Trokair to net you mana off of Knight.... Hope you have fun brewing!
Hi guys, I'm just here to give you the friendly reminder that you can use Flagstones of Trokair to net you mana off of Knight.... Hope you have fun brewing!
Knight of the Reliquary can only sacrifice a Forest or Plains sadly so I'm not sure that would work, unless there's some interaction I've missed.
Hi guys, I'm just here to give you the friendly reminder that you can use Flagstones of Trokair to net you mana off of Knight.... Hope you have fun brewing!
Knight of the Reliquary can only sacrifice a Forest or Plains sadly so I'm not sure that would work, unless there's some interaction I've missed.
Nope my bad... I'm sick today and totally forgot about that clause with her. I guess you could run that enchantment that makes all lands all types (like ive seen some scapeshift/through the breach valakut decks use). oh well....
I'll say it again, if you want the deck to be consistent the card you want isnt Chord of Calling or collected company. You want Commune with the Gods. The card is legit, especially in a bant midrange shell that can combo out.
I agree completely to this. I run a Junk Midrange deck with Knights as budget Goyfs and was having trouble making Knight bigger especially within the early turns. I had 4 Birds of Paradise which felt awkward in the deck. Eventually I switched them for 4 Grisly Salvage, which made Knight consistently at least a 5/5 by turn 3.
This brew looks interesting and will be keeping a close eye on how this turns out.
I actually do like the idea of commune with the gods. It's also a sorcery for tarmogoyf. I think if that is a legit option, then bant colors is the way to go.
I'd lean towards Drift of Phantasms as it can tutor up several of the relevant cards in the deck and not just enchantments. Also the UU isn't hard to accomplish with our mana base and the dorks.
If we are going combo, Coralhelm+Knight is pretty much a sure win unless they have a specific answer to it the moment you put it down, since you can tap all their lands and blockers with coralhelm using fetchlands to double landfall coralhelm while only having to tap knight once, getting you a tap per fetchland. It's honestly not necessary to have any more combos based around knight since she wins on her own, so everything should be there solely in case you don't get your combo on the first couple hands.
You'll probably have some sort of sub-archetype, either that or focus entirely around tutoring it out, though I don't know we have the tool box to do so efficiently outside of legacy. I imagine you could go with Bant midrange or Bant control sub-types, though I don't quite know myself.
Edit: Drift of Phantasms and commune with the gods are pretty much staple in this deck, I think.
If we are going combo, Coralhelm+Knight is pretty much a sure win unless they have a specific answer to it the moment you put it down, since you can tap all their lands and blockers with coralhelm using fetchlands to double landfall coralhelm while only having to tap knight once, getting you a tap per fetchland. It's honestly not necessary to have any more combos based around knight since she wins on her own, so everything should be there solely in case you don't get your combo on the first couple hands.
You'll probably have some sort of sub-archetype, either that or focus entirely around tutoring it out, though I don't know we have the tool box to do so efficiently outside of legacy. I imagine you could go with Bant midrange or Bant control sub-types, though I don't quite know myself.
Edit: Drift of Phantasms and commune with the gods are pretty much staple in this deck, I think.
Drift of Phantasm is super slow. You're spending 9-12 mana to set up the combo around turn 4-6 without doing anything else. A single Path or Decay sets you so far behind (if you haven't been killed before then).
I agree with the folks that just wanna jam the combo into a Bant midrange shell. The combo is nice but it's also pretty slow and vulnerable. No reason to go overboard with it.
Bound // Determined Combo turn protection with a card draw after you've scry topdecked the card you need... with a combo piece failsafe plan builtin with Determined; sac to return a card after it was hit with abrupt decay.
I'm trying KotR Retreat in a Stubborn Denial Bant shell. Yup, that's the sound of 4 KotR, 4 Goyf, 4 Loxodon Smiter, 2 Scavenging Ooze...give me more ideas for 4+-power dudes...
IMO, Stubborn Denial is the best protection instant for this combo whenever you can make it work, as it also stops mean stuff like that Grishoalbrand guy trying to combo off in response and it costs only 1 mana.
A few games of testing later against Junk Midrange, and the combo has been surprisingly good and achievable in a deck that can't dig for it so far. Pre-combo Retreat to Coralhelm was at its best tapping Junk's fatties and blockers--the Scry 1 was OK but pointless when needing to crack that newly played fetch in order to tap that fatty.
Yeah, the nonbo between fetches and scry is kinda upsetting, but it is really nice to have the option to dig incrementally for your Knight when you just want to kill them.
I'm glad it's working out for you, and Stubborn Denial is a very solid option to protect it. It seems pretty solid against combo decks, and you don't really need game against creature decks since you have bigger creatures.
I'm worried about Twin, though. Denial only stops Splinter Twin, and Retreat only stalls them.
If lifeloss is an issue, how about 3-4 Courser of Kruphix?
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4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
2 Stomping Ground
2 Breeding Pool
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Sejiri Steppe
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Geist of Saint Traft
12 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
I don't think red is really that necessary, but it could be if wild nacatl is added.
I like the idea of having goyf/geist as a back up plan incase we never draw retreat.
I also think every land other than steppe, should be sacable by knight, that is really important.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
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Azorius Control UW
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I get Commune with the Gods. It works well in a GW Toughness matters Enchantment deck I've brewed up. I also like the fact that if it would catch KotR then whatever lands get put in the graveyard from CwtG buff him up. I will keep it in mind especially if I go towards the combo side over the Bant shell side.
Great ideas being thrown around. Keep them coming all.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Idyllic Tutor
Knight of the Reliquary can only sacrifice a Forest or Plains sadly so I'm not sure that would work, unless there's some interaction I've missed.
Nope my bad... I'm sick today and totally forgot about that clause with her. I guess you could run that enchantment that makes all lands all types (like ive seen some scapeshift/through the breach valakut decks use). oh well....
I agree completely to this. I run a Junk Midrange deck with Knights as budget Goyfs and was having trouble making Knight bigger especially within the early turns. I had 4 Birds of Paradise which felt awkward in the deck. Eventually I switched them for 4 Grisly Salvage, which made Knight consistently at least a 5/5 by turn 3.
This brew looks interesting and will be keeping a close eye on how this turns out.
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You'll probably have some sort of sub-archetype, either that or focus entirely around tutoring it out, though I don't know we have the tool box to do so efficiently outside of legacy. I imagine you could go with Bant midrange or Bant control sub-types, though I don't quite know myself.
Edit: Drift of Phantasms and commune with the gods are pretty much staple in this deck, I think.
Retreat to Coralhelm only taps or untaps creatures sadly, not permanents.
I agree with the folks that just wanna jam the combo into a Bant midrange shell. The combo is nice but it's also pretty slow and vulnerable. No reason to go overboard with it.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
2 Temple Garden
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Sejiri Steppe
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Eternal Witness
4 Path to Exile
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Retreat to Coralhelm
4 Collected Company
IMO, Stubborn Denial is the best protection instant for this combo whenever you can make it work, as it also stops mean stuff like that Grishoalbrand guy trying to combo off in response and it costs only 1 mana.
A few games of testing later against Junk Midrange, and the combo has been surprisingly good and achievable in a deck that can't dig for it so far. Pre-combo Retreat to Coralhelm was at its best tapping Junk's fatties and blockers--the Scry 1 was OK but pointless when needing to crack that newly played fetch in order to tap that fatty.
I'm losing massive amounts of life to my own combo, though, so I'm playing one Canopy Vista, and I'm playing Cinder Glade instead of Stomping Ground.
I'm glad it's working out for you, and Stubborn Denial is a very solid option to protect it. It seems pretty solid against combo decks, and you don't really need game against creature decks since you have bigger creatures.
I'm worried about Twin, though. Denial only stops Splinter Twin, and Retreat only stalls them.
If lifeloss is an issue, how about 3-4 Courser of Kruphix?
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
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