Sorry, as I unfortunately did not get to attend this event, I was unable to ask or speak to him about his deck, and therefore cant comment on his list. If I get the chance to go to his shop, I will ask him about his input and share his insights here.
Thanks! I'll probably just shoot him a message on FB. Looked pretty close to the list he'd 5-0'd with with the inclusion of MD Meddling Mage.
He'd noted that Meddling Mage was specifically to interact more with non-interactive combo G1, and he'd removed Pridemage as he's not afraid of Ensnaring Bridge now that he's playing Jace.
He'd noted that Meddling Mage was specifically to interact more with non-interactive combo G1, and he'd removed Pridemage as he's not afraid of Ensnaring Bridge now that he's playing Jace.
I'm usually not too impressed with non-Retreat lists (too many linear decks that I have to go under at my LGS), but the point about Mage is well taken. The fact that you drop Kessig and the R mana also means the mana base is less warped, which makes Clique and Jace look more appealing.
Might have to give this variant a shot.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I'm not a huge fan of having only one copy of Ghost Quarter. I play a second one on SB.
About Jace: I do not own any Jaces, and I would really like him to be worse than Nissa, Steward of Elements. But I simply cannot believe that will turn out to be true =(
The Brainstorm ability is better than Nissa's Scry 2, Fateseal may be relevant against Tron, bouncing is quite good too, and the ultimate is an awesome kill condition even through ensnaring bridge.
Sweet list, but it looks dead in the water against Affinity with 0 Kataki 0 Stony... No ways to remove Artifacts or enchantments also can't be right, even with a way to play around Bridge. Then again, Kelvin may be just making a conscious choice to improve some matchups at the expense of others.
Sweet list, but it looks dead in the water against Affinity with 0 Kataki 0 Stony... No ways to remove Artifacts or enchantments also can't be right, even with a way to play around Bridge. Then again, Kelvin may be just making a conscious choice to improve some matchups at the expense of others.
I agree that that's risky. I've had times at my LGS where I was matched up against 3 different Affinity players in the 4-round tournament, so I'm always biased in favor of more artifact hate.
That said, it could just be a "stick Worship" plan. I think that's a harder lock vs. Affinity than Stony (which can still attack through it or Grid you down slowly), so he may be banking on that.
Also bricking half of Tron just makes Stony too valuable though, IMO.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Sweet list, but it looks dead in the water against Affinity with 0 Kataki 0 Stony... No ways to remove Artifacts or enchantments also can't be right, even with a way to play around Bridge. Then again, Kelvin may be just making a conscious choice to improve some matchups at the expense of others.
I agree, some copies of Stony/Kataki would likely find their way into my board when I get to trying this list out. It's worth noting that Affinity should take a substantial hit with BBE Jund and Grixis/UWx rising in popularity.
He'd noted that Meddling Mage was specifically to interact more with non-interactive combo G1, and he'd removed Pridemage as he's not afraid of Ensnaring Bridge now that he's playing Jace.
I'm usually not too impressed with non-Retreat lists (too many linear decks that I have to go under at my LGS), but the point about Mage is well taken. The fact that you drop Kessig and the R mana also means the mana base is less warped, which makes Clique and Jace look more appealing.
Might have to give this variant a shot.
That's almost identical to what I was playing when I was trying out Jace in Bant Company, never thought about having Meddling Mage be a mb card. I just realized how insane it'd be to Company into Meddling Mage and V-Clique.
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Modern: GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy: GWB Maverick
EDH: GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
Took out mantis riders for a third path, a single lighting helix, and two Ghor Clan Rampager which are super great with geist. Mana was just not working out with the mantis riders all the time. Replaced the steam vents with another forest to help with the life cost of the knightfall combo and to help with the ponza bbe decks I'm seeing in my meta. Feels tight so far.
Considering a third geist as it's one of the strongest creatures in the deck. We have dorks to turn 2 it and grant it exalted triggers, tons of removal to keep it swinging, pump to push it through combat, and burn to finish the job.
He'd noted that Meddling Mage was specifically to interact more with non-interactive combo G1, and he'd removed Pridemage as he's not afraid of Ensnaring Bridge now that he's playing Jace.
I'm usually not too impressed with non-Retreat lists (too many linear decks that I have to go under at my LGS), but the point about Mage is well taken. The fact that you drop Kessig and the R mana also means the mana base is less warped, which makes Clique and Jace look more appealing.
Might have to give this variant a shot.
That's almost identical to what I was playing when I was trying out Jace in Bant Company, never thought about having Meddling Mage be a mb card. I just realized how insane it'd be to Company into Meddling Mage and V-Clique.
You have to name a card with Mage before Clique gets to see their hand.
How big are your Goyfs on average?
Like yeah a 2 mana 3/4 is still pretty decent but maybe you run some number of Tarfire just to pump Goyf?
3/4 is about how large I can get tarmo on average by turn 3 to 4 but the fact that tribal flames is a sorcery and Ghor clan Rampager is a creature in the yard when used helps out, I can potentially get him to a 4/5 by myself without making any particularly out of place plays. I feel like a 3/4 on average is already better than the two drop alternatives in a deck this aggressive. Also there are enough decks in the meta that help him get huge anyway he's a must include. People so often forget that the cool thing about running tarmo in a zoo deck with nobles is that your tarmos can swing through theirs with only one exalted trigger. I've played about a million different variations on naya/four color zoo, bant company, and Knightfall over the years to know that I like him in the two drop slot more than voice, at least in this kind of aggressive list.
As far as tarfire goes, I've also played jund death shadow and let me just say that card sucked even in a deck that was trying to achieve delerium as well as pump goyfs. There's a reason why most people are on 1 to none in jund based lists now. Shock in modern is a no go.
Is it fair to say that we're one of the biggest beneficiaries of this Unban? It seems both Jace and Bloodbraid Elf are viable in our deck, albeit in different versions. I think Jace should drop in price a bit after M25, so I'm looking forward to getting a couple of copies.
Is it fair to say that we're one of the biggest beneficiaries of this Unban? It seems both Jace and Bloodbraid Elf are viable in our deck, albeit in different versions. I think Jace should drop in price a bit after M25, so I'm looking forward to getting a couple of copies.
Well we benefit from the fact that Jace and BBE fit in both bant Knightfall, bant company, and 4c retreat so we are fortunate enough to slot them in and see how it works. Only time will tell. Personally I'm currently testing 4c retreat with bolts and bbe instead of Coco.
@deus837 I think plugging 2 Jace in typical Knightfall lists does give us an edge over most other midrange decks. The -1 bounce seems really big. I think Bloodbraid Elf decks are different from Bant that they are another archetype altogether. As I've previously mentioned though, Knightfall's problem was never in fair matchups, but playing against unfair ones. That's why Spell Queller is such a big deal, and why Bloodbraid Elf is the wrong direction. One concession would be that BBE into Blood Moon seems pretty good.
I'm still on the regular Knightfall list, and with a big tournament coming up, I've been revisiting my sideboard strategy. Before, my philosophy was to pick a weak match-up and fill my sideboard with cards. So I had lots of anti-Tron and Valakut: 4 Unified Will, 1-2 Disdainful Stroke, etc. However, reading a recent article on sideboarding, I'm going to try doing a more versatile sideboard strategy. Here's my list: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-company-march-118/
Any thoughts on sideboard approach or utility cards are welcome!
Question: Is Bojuka Bog necessary in my sideboard with 2 mainboard Scavenging Oozes?
I think 22 lands 7 dorks is a trap. I would suggest cutting one of your Trackers for a land. I also disagree with not mainboarding Reflector mage, but it could just be that your meta is more than half non-creature MUs?
If you expect to face a lot of uninteractive unfair decks like Tron, scapeshift, and storm I have no clue why you wouldn't be playing Retreat since its your best shot at winning those games. Teeg is also great for those matchups.
No Gavony Township?
Sideboard still seems a little narrow. I'm assuming Ewit is for the grindy matches? I'd opt for more hard to deal with Midrange threats instead (Thrun, Gideon Ally, Sigarda, etc) but if you really like Ewit, I'd run one in the main instead. Hitting her off a CoCo is insane value, but I feel like there's more impactful cards you can SB.
I'd also push for Reflector Mage #3 over Revoker #3. The decks Reflector is good against, it's REALLY good against (pretty much any Midrange deck. Sometimes bouncing an opposing dork turn 2 can be a big enough tempo swing to run away with a game before it starts)
Also I personally don't like Bog, but if you see a lot of Dredge and Griselbrand, it should be decent
@Witty_Banterer I think having Knight as a Grave-Hate card is so valuable in the MU where Grave-Hate is a premium. Even if you have 2 Scavenging Ooze, a Bojuka Bog in the sideboard is so free when you have 4 cards (or drawing it) that can tutor it.
I don't know how valuable it is to have 2 Eternal Witness in your sideboard. Those are valuable slots to have when the meta is infested with a slurry of bull***** lmao. Think about the mana you have to invest to make an Eternal Witness useful as a SB card. IF you really want Eternal Witness, make some cuts in the main for it.
I also think Nissa is MUCH more valuable when you have main deck Reflector Mages to "0" into. Getting a free creature and removing creatures from their board is sickening.
Also, if you have 3-4 copies of Reflector Mage among the 75, you won't need Dusk // Dawn. Having resets are nice, but a lot of the time you can invalidate their threats with a gigantic Knight of the Reliquary and bouncing. If you're going to play a reset button then play Settle the Wreckage. Dusk is sickening value, but it's 9 mana. where as Settle the Wreckage is 4 mana, instant speed, and the MU where you want a reset are against things like Humans, Affinity, Eldrazi, and other various aggro decks where they're pressuring you and the efficiency of your mana (your deck is full of 3 drops so only casting 1 creature a turn while they smash in with like 3 or 4 creatures with high power). Dusk is nice vs. Shadow or Jund/Abzan, but you can just play Reflector Mage and beat them through attrition.
I remember just my Last FNM I completely whiff'd on CoCo (5 lands and Jace) and still won after my friend had turn 2 (UNCONTESTED) Dark Confidant, 2 Bloodbraid Elves, timely Discard and Removal, with a Scavenging Ooze and Goyf slowly beating in. Even game 3, I got stuck on 1 land for like 3 turns, got a second land, got that blown up by fullminator, and still won because the deck is so adept at grinding. You don't need Dusk // Dawn as a reset/grind card but I can see the appeal for having it in the 75.
Aven Mindcensor sucks lmao but if you like the card then power to you!
The Phyrexian Revoker eats a lot of slots when you can just play 3-4 Reflector Mage. If that's your answer for various Tron decks and Creature combo, then I think you should reconsider. your whole deck is so soft to big mana AND combo decks even with 4 Unified Will.
I also think you're underestimating Burn because your deck seems like it will get roflstomped by them.
Thanks! I'll probably just shoot him a message on FB. Looked pretty close to the list he'd 5-0'd with with the inclusion of MD Meddling Mage.
Kelvin casts a Meddling Mage on game 1. The list from the 20-02 daily decks did not have any copies of Meddling Mage main deck (not even SB actually).
I sent him a message this morning, I'll post a list when he replies.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Meddling Mage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells (8)
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
2 Botanical Sanctum
1 Breeding Pool
2 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Blessed Alliance
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Unified Will
3 Reflector Mage
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Worship
He'd noted that Meddling Mage was specifically to interact more with non-interactive combo G1, and he'd removed Pridemage as he's not afraid of Ensnaring Bridge now that he's playing Jace.
I'm usually not too impressed with non-Retreat lists (too many linear decks that I have to go under at my LGS), but the point about Mage is well taken. The fact that you drop Kessig and the R mana also means the mana base is less warped, which makes Clique and Jace look more appealing.
Might have to give this variant a shot.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
About Jace: I do not own any Jaces, and I would really like him to be worse than Nissa, Steward of Elements. But I simply cannot believe that will turn out to be true =(
The Brainstorm ability is better than Nissa's Scry 2, Fateseal may be relevant against Tron, bouncing is quite good too, and the ultimate is an awesome kill condition even through ensnaring bridge.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
I agree that that's risky. I've had times at my LGS where I was matched up against 3 different Affinity players in the 4-round tournament, so I'm always biased in favor of more artifact hate.
That said, it could just be a "stick Worship" plan. I think that's a harder lock vs. Affinity than Stony (which can still attack through it or Grid you down slowly), so he may be banking on that.
Also bricking half of Tron just makes Stony too valuable though, IMO.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I agree, some copies of Stony/Kataki would likely find their way into my board when I get to trying this list out. It's worth noting that Affinity should take a substantial hit with BBE Jund and Grixis/UWx rising in popularity.
That's almost identical to what I was playing when I was trying out Jace in Bant Company, never thought about having Meddling Mage be a mb card. I just realized how insane it'd be to Company into Meddling Mage and V-Clique.
GW GW Hatebears |GWB Counters Company | GWU Bant Knightfall GW Value Town
Legacy:
GWB Maverick
EDH:
GWR Mayael | Rhys | Sisay | Ezuri | Titania
GWIf it doesn't have a toolbox I don't want anything to do with itGW
Took out mantis riders for a third path, a single lighting helix, and two Ghor Clan Rampager which are super great with geist. Mana was just not working out with the mantis riders all the time. Replaced the steam vents with another forest to help with the life cost of the knightfall combo and to help with the ponza bbe decks I'm seeing in my meta. Feels tight so far.
Considering a third geist as it's one of the strongest creatures in the deck. We have dorks to turn 2 it and grant it exalted triggers, tons of removal to keep it swinging, pump to push it through combat, and burn to finish the job.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Like yeah a 2 mana 3/4 is still pretty decent but maybe you run some number of Tarfire just to pump Goyf?
You have to name a card with Mage before Clique gets to see their hand.
3/4 is about how large I can get tarmo on average by turn 3 to 4 but the fact that tribal flames is a sorcery and Ghor clan Rampager is a creature in the yard when used helps out, I can potentially get him to a 4/5 by myself without making any particularly out of place plays. I feel like a 3/4 on average is already better than the two drop alternatives in a deck this aggressive. Also there are enough decks in the meta that help him get huge anyway he's a must include. People so often forget that the cool thing about running tarmo in a zoo deck with nobles is that your tarmos can swing through theirs with only one exalted trigger. I've played about a million different variations on naya/four color zoo, bant company, and Knightfall over the years to know that I like him in the two drop slot more than voice, at least in this kind of aggressive list.
As far as tarfire goes, I've also played jund death shadow and let me just say that card sucked even in a deck that was trying to achieve delerium as well as pump goyfs. There's a reason why most people are on 1 to none in jund based lists now. Shock in modern is a no go.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Well we benefit from the fact that Jace and BBE fit in both bant Knightfall, bant company, and 4c retreat so we are fortunate enough to slot them in and see how it works. Only time will tell. Personally I'm currently testing 4c retreat with bolts and bbe instead of Coco.
I'm still on the regular Knightfall list, and with a big tournament coming up, I've been revisiting my sideboard strategy. Before, my philosophy was to pick a weak match-up and fill my sideboard with cards. So I had lots of anti-Tron and Valakut: 4 Unified Will, 1-2 Disdainful Stroke, etc. However, reading a recent article on sideboarding, I'm going to try doing a more versatile sideboard strategy. Here's my list: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bant-company-march-118/
Any thoughts on sideboard approach or utility cards are welcome!
Question: Is Bojuka Bog necessary in my sideboard with 2 mainboard Scavenging Oozes?
If you expect to face a lot of uninteractive unfair decks like Tron, scapeshift, and storm I have no clue why you wouldn't be playing Retreat since its your best shot at winning those games. Teeg is also great for those matchups.
No Gavony Township?
Sideboard still seems a little narrow. I'm assuming Ewit is for the grindy matches? I'd opt for more hard to deal with Midrange threats instead (Thrun, Gideon Ally, Sigarda, etc) but if you really like Ewit, I'd run one in the main instead. Hitting her off a CoCo is insane value, but I feel like there's more impactful cards you can SB.
I'd also push for Reflector Mage #3 over Revoker #3. The decks Reflector is good against, it's REALLY good against (pretty much any Midrange deck. Sometimes bouncing an opposing dork turn 2 can be a big enough tempo swing to run away with a game before it starts)
Also I personally don't like Bog, but if you see a lot of Dredge and Griselbrand, it should be decent
I don't know how valuable it is to have 2 Eternal Witness in your sideboard. Those are valuable slots to have when the meta is infested with a slurry of bull***** lmao. Think about the mana you have to invest to make an Eternal Witness useful as a SB card. IF you really want Eternal Witness, make some cuts in the main for it.
I also think Nissa is MUCH more valuable when you have main deck Reflector Mages to "0" into. Getting a free creature and removing creatures from their board is sickening.
Also, if you have 3-4 copies of Reflector Mage among the 75, you won't need Dusk // Dawn. Having resets are nice, but a lot of the time you can invalidate their threats with a gigantic Knight of the Reliquary and bouncing. If you're going to play a reset button then play Settle the Wreckage. Dusk is sickening value, but it's 9 mana. where as Settle the Wreckage is 4 mana, instant speed, and the MU where you want a reset are against things like Humans, Affinity, Eldrazi, and other various aggro decks where they're pressuring you and the efficiency of your mana (your deck is full of 3 drops so only casting 1 creature a turn while they smash in with like 3 or 4 creatures with high power). Dusk is nice vs. Shadow or Jund/Abzan, but you can just play Reflector Mage and beat them through attrition.
I remember just my Last FNM I completely whiff'd on CoCo (5 lands and Jace) and still won after my friend had turn 2 (UNCONTESTED) Dark Confidant, 2 Bloodbraid Elves, timely Discard and Removal, with a Scavenging Ooze and Goyf slowly beating in. Even game 3, I got stuck on 1 land for like 3 turns, got a second land, got that blown up by fullminator, and still won because the deck is so adept at grinding. You don't need Dusk // Dawn as a reset/grind card but I can see the appeal for having it in the 75.
Aven Mindcensor sucks lmao but if you like the card then power to you!
The Phyrexian Revoker eats a lot of slots when you can just play 3-4 Reflector Mage. If that's your answer for various Tron decks and Creature combo, then I think you should reconsider. your whole deck is so soft to big mana AND combo decks even with 4 Unified Will.
I also think you're underestimating Burn because your deck seems like it will get roflstomped by them.