I know this thread is more for traditional knightfall, but I know some of you in here play the vizier version and those who don't, I still value everybody's insight and opinion in this thread. I'm going to a PPTQ with this: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/counters-knightfall-1/
I'm curious what you guys think. For the SB I'm tempted to play more hate for scapeshift or other big mana decks, or I'm also wondering if I'm too vulnerable to burn too. Any thoughts are extremely appreciated!!!!
Vizier Knightfall is still Knightfall and therefore is fair game on this thread. I'm playing it myself at the moment, though I go back and forth between versions. It's somewhat less grindy and resilient but has MUCH better combo and Dredge matchups IMO. Personally my list is pretty similar to yours but -1 Ghost Quarter +1 Botanical Sanctum (the deck is very colored-mana hungry, especially on 21 lands), -1 Vizier of Remedies (card is miserable on its own), -1 Walking Ballista (I want to increase CoCo hits and Rhonas is actually really solid with Knight of the Reliquary) and +1 Reflector Mage because that card is amazing in this meta - literally good against every top deck with the exceptions of Titanshift and UW Control.
Hey thanks Deus, your point on botanical is especially well taken---what are you replacing vizier with main?
Is your board the same or any cards that you like that are different than mine?
Oh right. I've been running a single Selfless Spirit to save things with Chord of Calling and stop wraths. I don't have my list handy, but my sideboard is similar to yours except that I have the Ghost Quarter in there as well as Bojuka Bog for graveyard matchups (over one of the Oozes). I also run two Nissa, Steward of Elements(I'm always singing that card's praises - it's possibly the most powerful turn 2 play in our deck in grindy matchups, and also an excellent top-deck). I don't have Kataki at the moment because I think this deck is actually really good against Affinity, because they run little interaction. I seem to combo them out like 5 times out of 6. Also, Staticaster is a bomb in that matchup.
I ran some test games with the GP Sao Paulo winning list, just to gauge how good or bad those interesting card decisions impacted the game. I'll comment my impressions and do a quick report to raise discussion here
Rounds: Lose 1-2 vs titanshift
Lose 1-2 vs titanshift
Both rounds went in a similar fashion. Won one game due to the combo, lost the other ones because I didn't have enough answers. Here I missed gaddock teeg a lot, he's worth 1.5 or 2 counterspells (even though breach has fallen out of favor, new lists include chandra/nahiri/hour of promise so it's still as usefull) Won 2-0 vs burn
Maindeck kitchen finks helped a lot game one. Game two variance hits and my opponent mulligans into oblivion and loses. Won 2-0 vs BG tron
While the other matchups felt the same or even worse than with my list, here I really felt much better. Big Thalia buys at least one turn, ceremonious rejection is as good as expected and three retreats made going for the combo much more likely.
Card choices: Manabase
Sejiri was never useful, and one game it was detrimental because I drew it. I was able to kill without kessig perfectly fine, but kessig is a good magic card and I like running it. Having forest instead of canopy and island instead of botanical lead to some mulligans because I didn't have the right colors, which felt bad. I think that the conventional manabase is strictly better. Two drops
Games played in a really weird way without more two drops (this list only has 3). Games were like "play a dork and hope that it doesn't die, play a 3 drop and hope it doesn't die" and if that didn't happen I would loose lots of tempo. Selfless was decent though, I'm not playing it right now in my list but I would reconsider it if the meta somehow changes. Three drops
Three retreats were amazing vs tron and valakut (as expected) and I was able to combo more frequently than usual. I drew multiples a few times, which wasn't optimal, but the combo kills outweighed the multiple retreat draws. I think that maybe the third retreat could be played in the sideboard... I think that the first two copies of retreat serve a different function than the third and fourth copies, and it wouldn't be crazy to include those latter copies in the sideboard of more stock lists, "defying" the usual "play all retreats maindeck" advice.
Big Thalia was amazing vs tron, and I expect her to be good vs eldrazi too (I'm not sure if I want her vs grixis shadow, I would need to test more). Anyway, Thalia looks like it's replacing reflector mage, and I prefer reflector over Thalia without a doubt. Three trackers is obviously overkill, I have no idea why the pilot thought that he needed so many of them. Path to exile
One path was moved to the sideboard to make room for all those three drops. The consensus is that knightfall needs more removal than 4 path, not less. Anyway, this list looks particularly skewed to fight certain matchups (like tron, eldrazi and valakut) and when thinking about it that way, it makes sense. Anyway, for an open meta I would play 4 path maindeck. Sideboard
Having 3 ceremonious+3 flashfreeze has the same effect as the stock counter suite (2-3 unified will + 2 negate), while being more efficient vs valakut/eldrazi and being worse vs random decks. Revoker is one weird inclusion, and I would love to know what deck he tries to fight on that angle. Same for fracturing gust, was he expecting lots of lantern control or bogles? that card is too slow vs affinity to be worth it.
Hey guys- this is my PPTQ write up on Devoted Knightfall. I just played an event today in Fairfax VA, I got all the way to the semifinals where I ended up losing. I wanted to share my thoughts.
Sideboard (15):
Unified Will x3
Path to exile x3
Izzet Staticaster x2
Scavenging ooze x2
Nissa, Steward of Elements x2
Eidolon of Rhetoric x1
Burrenton Forge Tender x1
Qasali Pridemage x1
So, I’ll get to changes later. First to quick, quick over view of matches. 6 rounds swiss, then two rounds in top 8:
Round 1- Big Red 2-0
This first game went quick, as he played reactive spells like blood moon after I fetched basics and chalice on one when I wasn’t planning on playing more ones. Big knights ended it. I didn’t see much other than that.
He gets to play early Chandra on turn 3 killing a knight, then lands Koth next turn. I company after he does that into the Druid and Vizier combo, and it ends quickly next turn after a chord hits Duskwatch.
Round 2- Grixis DS 0-2
He starts with 3 discard spells for company, chord, mage and even a knight later and I draw very slow. Only thing I really play is Rhonas, which felt terrible. He’ll get cut from my list after today.
So, not much to say. I end up having to mull to 4 since I couldn’t get any lands in my first draws. I actually did a decent job of topdecking and staying in the game, reflector mage was a big part of that and also he couldn’t find lands for a while. After almost sticking a druid 2 times, he gets there. I see him later again…..
Round 3- RUG midrange 2-1
This is a friend of mine, and we know our decks well. His build uses a mix of threats like tarmogoyf and huntmaster of the fells with counters, snapcaster, bloodmoon and burn spells. Fun deck! Game one I get the combo under him.
SB- -3 birds, -2 retreat, can’t remember what else and + burrenton, eidilon, ooze, pridemage, and some paths.
He grinds me out in game 2 with goyfs and I get going a bit with some companies. Can’t find the combo and start beating down. I have the win on board easily the next turn, but he finds a cryptic to tap the team and swing in with 5/6 goys and then bolts me dead as I was at 12 life. Welp. Game 3 was a grind for sure, and I had some real interesting interactions with eidolon and burrenton out at the same time, which stopped him from getting too much of his burn going, and he couldn’t get rid of the eidilon by double burn spell, as it’s 4 toughness. I end up winning on a kessig wolf run swing with the of eidolon of all creatures. It’s a great SB card.
Round 4- GW Valuetown 2-0
This is always strange going vs other company/knight decks. Game one goes pretty quickly as I have the combo of druid, vizier and duskwatch right at the start and just play it out and win on turn 3 as he couldn’t find a path or aven mindcensor to stop me.
SB- -1 retreat (I left one in just to break a grind mirror), -1 selfless spirit, -2 birds, - 2 chord, -1 vizier +3 path, 2 ooze, 2 Nissa (not exactly sure how to SB)
GRINDFEST. As you’d expect, he brough in great hate like surgical extraction and linvala, and he got them both right away surgicaling my druids away on turn 2 and my companies away away turn 3. Ouch. Then he drops linvala on turn 4 shutting off my ooze and duskwatch, and knights. He starts the asuza/ramunap thing killing my lands, yet growing my knight who starts attacking in and chipping away his creatures. I’m hoping for mages, path’s and nissa and end up getting the first two. I finally path linvala and get my mana dorks to cast some reflector mages and win the game. Intense game.
Round 5- Living End 2-0
Game one isn’t much to talk about, he can’t find lands and cycles a million creatures only to find nothing. He concedes early.
This game went really well, thanks to two unified will taking care of two living ends early in the game. It totally caught him off-guard. He lands a 3rd living end, but I company after and clean up the board with a reflector and knight. I land threat after threat and he spins his wheels and hard casts street wraiths and other big dumb creatures as I just start hammering him with knights and pathing his dudes. This game showed the sheer power of unified will in our SB, it’s the best SB card along with path.
Round 6- Jeskai Control 2-1
This was another good friend of mine I played. It turned out I got paired down, and we ended up having to play this out as there was no way to get us both in top 8. Game one he really wrecks me with tons of removal and counterspells, his deck hummed perfectly to the tune of electrolyze, izzet charm, bolt, path, logic knot and an unopposed geist killing me, also a queller on a company. What a beating.
Game 2 was one where I baited him into cryptic command countering a chord for 2 when I had 5 mana and two creatures on the board, I saved two mana for a unified will and combo out next turn. Game 3 was grindy, but I remember Eidolon being very useful here, and funny enough I got the combo to land for infinite mana on a kessig swing with Eidolon for the win. It was a tight game, didn’t have time for notes. Felt bad we both couldn’t top 8, but on I go.
TOP 8
Grixis DS (same player as earlier) 2-0
This went differently this time. After the usual discard and other things early in the game, I land dorks and company, and most notably knight. He didn’t kill knight, and it took over the game, stopping him from attacking much with his 2 shadows and tasigur, I let him thoughtsieze and shock himself down to 3, and then on that end step, got a tricky knight activation which allowed a gavony + on the knight and birds, and then next turn I kessiged him for exactly 3 in the air with birds. LOL
SB, same as earlier, but this time I didn’t bring in the nissa and it was better.
This was actually kind of an easy game. Reflector mage is really good in this matchup, and I think with the chord, witness and company package this deck has it’s inevitable you can start chaining these spells if they don’t have a million snap and counters.
Semi finals- Titanbreach 0-2
I had a slow moving hand to start, and ended up basically having a retreat and a company with 4 mana and a fetch. On his turn he quickly plays through the breach for a titan and swings giving him access to valakut and everything- a friend pointed out I didn’t stop him as he quick played and should have tapped his titan with retreat. I had a knight with the company, so I could have won this game. It was a mistake on my part not to notice this and he took advantage. I think I freak out a bit anytime it’s a titan deck.
SB- -3 reflector mage, -1 vizier, - rhonas + 3 unified will, burrenton, and widilon. Should have left some mage in.
I mulled to 6 on a slow slow hand but had a company and chord. Hoped for speeding up the mana, but it didn’t happen. I brinked on company and chord, and there was a point right when he was comboing with through the breach and titan where I could have chorded for 3 for reflector mage or AVEN MINDCENSOR if I had one. Didn’t so I lost.
All in all, the deck is awesome. It can win super fast, but with mage and knight has game in grindy matches.
MVPs: Knight, Mage, Witness, Unified Will
Cards to cut: Rhonas, Nissa in the board. I’m going to add a 4th mage main and 2 aven mindcensor in the board.
Nice tournament! How did the control and shadow matchups feel? When I tested abzan vizier they were miserable, but this deck is a whole different story, I might try some games with it.
If you plan on cutting rhonas, what do you plan to do with the infinite mana? just duskwatch to draw a new hand and kessig? Wouldn't you add a ballista at least?
Apologies RPD, I forgot to write ballista in my list. I have one. Fixing that now. I think it's the only needed creature like that and then of course the kessig as another mana sink with duskwatch. Rhonas might not be needed.
Shadow seems fine, if not quite winnable with all the mage and Ewit. I had terrible draws that first match, second felt pretty good overall. All 4 mages will help.
Control can be rough, but again, it's not so bad. Of course not having voice isn't great, but at the same time, playing around their spells with company and chord makes it very doable. I'm going to test more and more and possibly tune some. The selfless spirit I added last minute as a chord target for wrath effects, not certain it's amazing but it's a nod to control.
I think you'd dig the deck RPD. You're a smart player, and this gives you free wins.
Knightfall is one of my favorite decks so far, love the colors and the combination of creatures, but I'm struggling against Eldrazi Tron. I think it is a bad match, they have fast and powerful creatures, All is Dust, Karn, etc, even 4 Reflector Mage can't deal with that.
How do you guys side in and out against Eldrazi Tron? Is Sigarda a good option?
Stony Silence isn't that thing and sometimes just break your Collected Company.
Knightfall is one of my favorite decks so far, love the colors and the combination of creatures, but I'm struggling against Eldrazi Tron. I think it is a bad match, they have fast and powerful creatures, All is Dust, Karn, etc, even 4 Reflector Mage can't deal with that.
How do you guys side in and out against Eldrazi Tron? Is Sigarda a good option?
Stony Silence isn't that thing and sometimes just break your Collected Company.
The matchup is fine overall, especially for the Vizier version (they run very little interaction so it's relatively easy to combo). Reflector Mage is a monster against their TKS and Reality Smashers. Sigarda would be good as it cuts out their best path to victory (All is Dust) IMO you want Unified Will in this matchup to stop things like All is Dust and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
@Dreadnaught33 Congrats on a good finish! Glad to see a list so close to mine doing well. I think you should reconsider Rhonas though, he's actually pretty decent in grindy games (survives board wipes, etc.) and can be hit off of Company, unlike Ballista. He's better in this deck than in Abzan company because he gets activated by Knight.
@RPD thanks for confirming my suspicions. That list was just strange. I'm confused at how he was able to take down a GP with it, but maybe it was the unconventional nature of it that surprised people, who knows. Or mayube it's just optimal against Titanshift and he took aim at that matchup? Either way I doubt that list will be a new standard going forward.
Hey, all, I've played a few more local tourneys recently with this deck. Unfortunately, although there have been some big tourneys, I've been busy on Saturdays to truly test it on a larger event. But here are some thoughts on my current iteration. For me, the core of the deck will always be 4x KotR, 4x Spell Queller, 4x Reflector Mage, 4x Noble Hierarch, 3x Birds of Paradise, 2x Tireless Tracker, 3 Voice of Resurgence. Elspeth, Knight-Errant has been great, although in the very diverse meta, I've been facing less fair decks, and Elspeth sometimes feels redundant as a beatdown bonus and not versatile. However, I don't want to cater too much to an unpredictable meta, so I'm happy to keep her for now as 2 copies. Voice of Resurgence, imo, is also key to this deck, because you need 7-8 legit threats that can grow to over 6/6. Voice of Resurgence rewards you for Companying into 2 mana dorks, growing its Elemental. It is also a 2 drop.
I used to play with 3 Coursers of Kruphix, inspired by Bento's list, but I've cut it to make the deck more versatile in combo matchups. I've still been able to beat Burn w/o Kruphix by drawing counterspells and Spell Queller.
There are 4 flex spots, and I've been experimenting with 2 Stratus Dancers. It's a good card, but awkward in this deck. On turn 2-4, with a possible mana dork in mind, you want to hold up Spell Queller and Collected Company rather than play anything other than maybe a 4/4 KotR. So another flash creature is what this deck really wants. Flash creatures can be great when you have a Spell QUeller but opponent doesn't play anything on their turn, giving you something to play other than a Spell Queller that didn't do anything. Vendilion Clique is great but can be awkward at needing 2 blue mana early on. I'm settling with 2 Aven Mindcensor, which helps against Counters Company, Titanshift, and GB Tron. I've thought about Nimble Obstructionist, mainly cause it's a 3/1 body, but Mindcensor is more useful in more matchups.
Other 2 flex spots are 1 Qasali Pridemage, 1 Scavenging Ooze.
Yeah, someone on the Knightfall subreddit had a screenshot of his list: http://imgur.com/a/h9rba
3x Trackers, 2x Aven Mindcensors, 2x Selfless Spirits, 2x Ooze, 1x Vendilion Clique, 1x Eternal Witness are his main deviations. He also plays 3 Retreat to Coralhelms, which I like. If you go combo route, you might as well go with 3 copies.
I'm not sure about the 3rd tracker and Eternal Witness, but Selfless Spirits and Mindcensors are great versus Valakut decks.
I'm not sure if the sideboard is overkill, but it really goes answer lots of problems. Flashfreeze is also good versus Counters Company and even Jund. I'd really miss the Reflector Mages, but Flashfreeze and Ceremonious Rejection probably makes up for it in the matchups where you normally want Mages (like Eldrazi Tron).
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Thanks for this man, great write up for sure. I'm a little down on the Nissa though right now, and run an eidolon of rhetoric and now kataki in place of the two Nissa's. Also, 20 lands is scary AF to me, I at least need 21! This dude had great things to say though and I will be continuing to play this version of the deck for the foreseeable future, having that instant win factor is so huge, though I do miss queller sometimes...:-/
Thanks for this man, great write up for sure. I'm a little down on the Nissa though right now, and run an eidolon of rhetoric and now kataki in place of the two Nissa's. Also, 20 lands is scary AF to me, I at least need 21! This dude had great things to say though and I will be continuing to play this version of the deck for the foreseeable future, having that instant win factor is so huge, though I do miss queller sometimes...:-/
I haven't tried the Vizier version TBH, but I've been wondering why that version doesn't play Spell Queller. It is by far and away the best card in traditional Bant Knightfall and does everything you'd want it to do - is a creature, provides evasive damage, and of course most importantly "counters" important spells that your opponent casts (Karn, Scapeshift, etc.). Queller is an absolute blow-out card. How come people aren't finding a way to slot it into Vizier lists?
I still find the Vizier combo too fragile against creature removal. However, I've also been losing to the Vizier combo quite a bit. I'd thought Paths, Reflector Mage, and Spell Quellers would be enough to counter the combo, but I've had trouble drawing these 12 cards when needed. Has anyone had more luck against Counters Company with Bant Knightfall?
My sideboard usually is just Linvala, Keeper of Silence, and I have 1 extra Path to side in. Also, I mainboard 2 Aven Mindcensors which could theoretically slow it a bit.
Additionally, I used to play with 2 Staticasters in the side, but I found, unlike what Kelvin Chew had said in his article, that they don't help stop the combo, since Druid is 2 toughness and you can put the activation on the stack so they still have infinite mana after you kill Vizier of Remedies. (Unless I'm using Staticaster wrong?)
To be honest Theory, I might test it. I think mage is there to slow down opponents so you can assemble the combo and win but perhaps queller is better utility. Anybody tested this in the counters version?
Btw, nothing beats knight even queller. Without knight, the deck doesn't exist! She was love at first sight for me.
Currently the list i am going to try out for a few leagues on MTGO and see how i feel about it. Trying to decide how many counter options i want in the board and changing some numbers in the board. Maindeck i feel is fine. this is mostly a change to @RPD 's list from a few weeks back
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Modern: Bant Knightfall, Burn
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Vizier Knightfall is still Knightfall and therefore is fair game on this thread. I'm playing it myself at the moment, though I go back and forth between versions. It's somewhat less grindy and resilient but has MUCH better combo and Dredge matchups IMO. Personally my list is pretty similar to yours but -1 Ghost Quarter +1 Botanical Sanctum (the deck is very colored-mana hungry, especially on 21 lands), -1 Vizier of Remedies (card is miserable on its own), -1 Walking Ballista (I want to increase CoCo hits and Rhonas is actually really solid with Knight of the Reliquary) and +1 Reflector Mage because that card is amazing in this meta - literally good against every top deck with the exceptions of Titanshift and UW Control.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Is your board the same or any cards that you like that are different than mine?
Oh right. I've been running a single Selfless Spirit to save things with Chord of Calling and stop wraths. I don't have my list handy, but my sideboard is similar to yours except that I have the Ghost Quarter in there as well as Bojuka Bog for graveyard matchups (over one of the Oozes). I also run two Nissa, Steward of Elements(I'm always singing that card's praises - it's possibly the most powerful turn 2 play in our deck in grindy matchups, and also an excellent top-deck). I don't have Kataki at the moment because I think this deck is actually really good against Affinity, because they run little interaction. I seem to combo them out like 5 times out of 6. Also, Staticaster is a bomb in that matchup.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Rounds:
Lose 1-2 vs titanshift
Lose 1-2 vs titanshift
Both rounds went in a similar fashion. Won one game due to the combo, lost the other ones because I didn't have enough answers. Here I missed gaddock teeg a lot, he's worth 1.5 or 2 counterspells (even though breach has fallen out of favor, new lists include chandra/nahiri/hour of promise so it's still as usefull)
Won 2-0 vs burn
Maindeck kitchen finks helped a lot game one. Game two variance hits and my opponent mulligans into oblivion and loses.
Won 2-0 vs BG tron
While the other matchups felt the same or even worse than with my list, here I really felt much better. Big Thalia buys at least one turn, ceremonious rejection is as good as expected and three retreats made going for the combo much more likely.
Card choices:
Manabase
Sejiri was never useful, and one game it was detrimental because I drew it. I was able to kill without kessig perfectly fine, but kessig is a good magic card and I like running it. Having forest instead of canopy and island instead of botanical lead to some mulligans because I didn't have the right colors, which felt bad. I think that the conventional manabase is strictly better.
Two drops
Games played in a really weird way without more two drops (this list only has 3). Games were like "play a dork and hope that it doesn't die, play a 3 drop and hope it doesn't die" and if that didn't happen I would loose lots of tempo. Selfless was decent though, I'm not playing it right now in my list but I would reconsider it if the meta somehow changes.
Three drops
Three retreats were amazing vs tron and valakut (as expected) and I was able to combo more frequently than usual. I drew multiples a few times, which wasn't optimal, but the combo kills outweighed the multiple retreat draws. I think that maybe the third retreat could be played in the sideboard... I think that the first two copies of retreat serve a different function than the third and fourth copies, and it wouldn't be crazy to include those latter copies in the sideboard of more stock lists, "defying" the usual "play all retreats maindeck" advice.
Big Thalia was amazing vs tron, and I expect her to be good vs eldrazi too (I'm not sure if I want her vs grixis shadow, I would need to test more). Anyway, Thalia looks like it's replacing reflector mage, and I prefer reflector over Thalia without a doubt. Three trackers is obviously overkill, I have no idea why the pilot thought that he needed so many of them.
Path to exile
One path was moved to the sideboard to make room for all those three drops. The consensus is that knightfall needs more removal than 4 path, not less. Anyway, this list looks particularly skewed to fight certain matchups (like tron, eldrazi and valakut) and when thinking about it that way, it makes sense. Anyway, for an open meta I would play 4 path maindeck.
Sideboard
Having 3 ceremonious+3 flashfreeze has the same effect as the stock counter suite (2-3 unified will + 2 negate), while being more efficient vs valakut/eldrazi and being worse vs random decks. Revoker is one weird inclusion, and I would love to know what deck he tries to fight on that angle. Same for fracturing gust, was he expecting lots of lantern control or bogles? that card is too slow vs affinity to be worth it.
L: Maverick
Hey guys- this is my PPTQ write up on Devoted Knightfall. I just played an event today in Fairfax VA, I got all the way to the semifinals where I ended up losing. I wanted to share my thoughts.
Decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/counters-knightfall-1/
I’ll be changing this link to what I wanted to change after the event, so here is what I took written out:
Creatures (30)
Noble Hierarch x4
Birds of paradise x3
Devoted Druid x4
Vizier of remedies x3
Selfless spirit x1
Duskwatch Recruiter x2
Knight of the Reliquary x4
Reflector Mage x3
Rhonas the Indomitable x1
Eternal Witness x4
Walking Ballista x1
Enchantments and Instants (9)
Collected Company x4
Chord of Calling x3
Retreat to Coralhelm x2
Lands (21)
Windswept Heath x4
Misty Rainforest x4
Wooded Foothills x1
Breeding Pool x1
Temple Garden x1
Hallowed Fountain x1
Stomping Ground x1
Ghost Quarter x1
Kessig Wolf Run x1
Gavony Township x1
Horizon Canopy x1
Forest x3
Plains x1
Sideboard (15):
Unified Will x3
Path to exile x3
Izzet Staticaster x2
Scavenging ooze x2
Nissa, Steward of Elements x2
Eidolon of Rhetoric x1
Burrenton Forge Tender x1
Qasali Pridemage x1
So, I’ll get to changes later. First to quick, quick over view of matches. 6 rounds swiss, then two rounds in top 8:
Round 1- Big Red 2-0
This first game went quick, as he played reactive spells like blood moon after I fetched basics and chalice on one when I wasn’t planning on playing more ones. Big knights ended it. I didn’t see much other than that.
SB- -3 Reflector Mage, -2 Retreat. +Burrenton, Qasali, 3 Unified Will.
He gets to play early Chandra on turn 3 killing a knight, then lands Koth next turn. I company after he does that into the Druid and Vizier combo, and it ends quickly next turn after a chord hits Duskwatch.
Round 2- Grixis DS 0-2
He starts with 3 discard spells for company, chord, mage and even a knight later and I draw very slow. Only thing I really play is Rhonas, which felt terrible. He’ll get cut from my list after today.
SB- -2 chord, -2 retreat, -3 birds +3 Path, 2 ooze, 2 Nissa
So, not much to say. I end up having to mull to 4 since I couldn’t get any lands in my first draws. I actually did a decent job of topdecking and staying in the game, reflector mage was a big part of that and also he couldn’t find lands for a while. After almost sticking a druid 2 times, he gets there. I see him later again…..
Round 3- RUG midrange 2-1
This is a friend of mine, and we know our decks well. His build uses a mix of threats like tarmogoyf and huntmaster of the fells with counters, snapcaster, bloodmoon and burn spells. Fun deck! Game one I get the combo under him.
SB- -3 birds, -2 retreat, can’t remember what else and + burrenton, eidilon, ooze, pridemage, and some paths.
He grinds me out in game 2 with goyfs and I get going a bit with some companies. Can’t find the combo and start beating down. I have the win on board easily the next turn, but he finds a cryptic to tap the team and swing in with 5/6 goys and then bolts me dead as I was at 12 life. Welp. Game 3 was a grind for sure, and I had some real interesting interactions with eidolon and burrenton out at the same time, which stopped him from getting too much of his burn going, and he couldn’t get rid of the eidilon by double burn spell, as it’s 4 toughness. I end up winning on a kessig wolf run swing with the of eidolon of all creatures. It’s a great SB card.
Round 4- GW Valuetown 2-0
This is always strange going vs other company/knight decks. Game one goes pretty quickly as I have the combo of druid, vizier and duskwatch right at the start and just play it out and win on turn 3 as he couldn’t find a path or aven mindcensor to stop me.
SB- -1 retreat (I left one in just to break a grind mirror), -1 selfless spirit, -2 birds, - 2 chord, -1 vizier +3 path, 2 ooze, 2 Nissa (not exactly sure how to SB)
GRINDFEST. As you’d expect, he brough in great hate like surgical extraction and linvala, and he got them both right away surgicaling my druids away on turn 2 and my companies away away turn 3. Ouch. Then he drops linvala on turn 4 shutting off my ooze and duskwatch, and knights. He starts the asuza/ramunap thing killing my lands, yet growing my knight who starts attacking in and chipping away his creatures. I’m hoping for mages, path’s and nissa and end up getting the first two. I finally path linvala and get my mana dorks to cast some reflector mages and win the game. Intense game.
Round 5- Living End 2-0
Game one isn’t much to talk about, he can’t find lands and cycles a million creatures only to find nothing. He concedes early.
SB- -2 Retreat, - 1 selfless spirit, -1 vizier, -2 chord, -1 rhonas, -2 birds + 3 unified will, 2 ooze, 1 eidolon, 3 path.
This game went really well, thanks to two unified will taking care of two living ends early in the game. It totally caught him off-guard. He lands a 3rd living end, but I company after and clean up the board with a reflector and knight. I land threat after threat and he spins his wheels and hard casts street wraiths and other big dumb creatures as I just start hammering him with knights and pathing his dudes. This game showed the sheer power of unified will in our SB, it’s the best SB card along with path.
Round 6- Jeskai Control 2-1
This was another good friend of mine I played. It turned out I got paired down, and we ended up having to play this out as there was no way to get us both in top 8. Game one he really wrecks me with tons of removal and counterspells, his deck hummed perfectly to the tune of electrolyze, izzet charm, bolt, path, logic knot and an unopposed geist killing me, also a queller on a company. What a beating.
SB- -3 birds, -2 retreat, -1 reflector, -1 chord +3 unified will, burrenton forge tender, 2 ooze, 1 eidolon
Game 2 was one where I baited him into cryptic command countering a chord for 2 when I had 5 mana and two creatures on the board, I saved two mana for a unified will and combo out next turn. Game 3 was grindy, but I remember Eidolon being very useful here, and funny enough I got the combo to land for infinite mana on a kessig swing with Eidolon for the win. It was a tight game, didn’t have time for notes. Felt bad we both couldn’t top 8, but on I go.
TOP 8
Grixis DS (same player as earlier) 2-0
This went differently this time. After the usual discard and other things early in the game, I land dorks and company, and most notably knight. He didn’t kill knight, and it took over the game, stopping him from attacking much with his 2 shadows and tasigur, I let him thoughtsieze and shock himself down to 3, and then on that end step, got a tricky knight activation which allowed a gavony + on the knight and birds, and then next turn I kessiged him for exactly 3 in the air with birds. LOL
SB, same as earlier, but this time I didn’t bring in the nissa and it was better.
This was actually kind of an easy game. Reflector mage is really good in this matchup, and I think with the chord, witness and company package this deck has it’s inevitable you can start chaining these spells if they don’t have a million snap and counters.
Semi finals- Titanbreach 0-2
I had a slow moving hand to start, and ended up basically having a retreat and a company with 4 mana and a fetch. On his turn he quickly plays through the breach for a titan and swings giving him access to valakut and everything- a friend pointed out I didn’t stop him as he quick played and should have tapped his titan with retreat. I had a knight with the company, so I could have won this game. It was a mistake on my part not to notice this and he took advantage. I think I freak out a bit anytime it’s a titan deck.
SB- -3 reflector mage, -1 vizier, - rhonas + 3 unified will, burrenton, and widilon. Should have left some mage in.
I mulled to 6 on a slow slow hand but had a company and chord. Hoped for speeding up the mana, but it didn’t happen. I brinked on company and chord, and there was a point right when he was comboing with through the breach and titan where I could have chorded for 3 for reflector mage or AVEN MINDCENSOR if I had one. Didn’t so I lost.
All in all, the deck is awesome. It can win super fast, but with mage and knight has game in grindy matches.
MVPs: Knight, Mage, Witness, Unified Will
Cards to cut: Rhonas, Nissa in the board. I’m going to add a 4th mage main and 2 aven mindcensor in the board.
Hope this helps anybody out there!!! Cheers!
If you plan on cutting rhonas, what do you plan to do with the infinite mana? just duskwatch to draw a new hand and kessig? Wouldn't you add a ballista at least?
L: Maverick
Shadow seems fine, if not quite winnable with all the mage and Ewit. I had terrible draws that first match, second felt pretty good overall. All 4 mages will help.
Control can be rough, but again, it's not so bad. Of course not having voice isn't great, but at the same time, playing around their spells with company and chord makes it very doable. I'm going to test more and more and possibly tune some. The selfless spirit I added last minute as a chord target for wrath effects, not certain it's amazing but it's a nod to control.
I think you'd dig the deck RPD. You're a smart player, and this gives you free wins.
How do you guys side in and out against Eldrazi Tron? Is Sigarda a good option?
Stony Silence isn't that thing and sometimes just break your Collected Company.
The matchup is fine overall, especially for the Vizier version (they run very little interaction so it's relatively easy to combo). Reflector Mage is a monster against their TKS and Reality Smashers. Sigarda would be good as it cuts out their best path to victory (All is Dust) IMO you want Unified Will in this matchup to stop things like All is Dust and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
@Dreadnaught33 Congrats on a good finish! Glad to see a list so close to mine doing well. I think you should reconsider Rhonas though, he's actually pretty decent in grindy games (survives board wipes, etc.) and can be hit off of Company, unlike Ballista. He's better in this deck than in Abzan company because he gets activated by Knight.
@RPD thanks for confirming my suspicions. That list was just strange. I'm confused at how he was able to take down a GP with it, but maybe it was the unconventional nature of it that surprised people, who knows. Or mayube it's just optimal against Titanshift and he took aim at that matchup? Either way I doubt that list will be a new standard going forward.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
I used to play with 3 Coursers of Kruphix, inspired by Bento's list, but I've cut it to make the deck more versatile in combo matchups. I've still been able to beat Burn w/o Kruphix by drawing counterspells and Spell Queller.
There are 4 flex spots, and I've been experimenting with 2 Stratus Dancers. It's a good card, but awkward in this deck. On turn 2-4, with a possible mana dork in mind, you want to hold up Spell Queller and Collected Company rather than play anything other than maybe a 4/4 KotR. So another flash creature is what this deck really wants. Flash creatures can be great when you have a Spell QUeller but opponent doesn't play anything on their turn, giving you something to play other than a Spell Queller that didn't do anything. Vendilion Clique is great but can be awkward at needing 2 blue mana early on. I'm settling with 2 Aven Mindcensor, which helps against Counters Company, Titanshift, and GB Tron. I've thought about Nimble Obstructionist, mainly cause it's a 3/1 body, but Mindcensor is more useful in more matchups.
Other 2 flex spots are 1 Qasali Pridemage, 1 Scavenging Ooze.
MVP in my sideboard has been Bojuka Bog.
3x Trackers, 2x Aven Mindcensors, 2x Selfless Spirits, 2x Ooze, 1x Vendilion Clique, 1x Eternal Witness are his main deviations. He also plays 3 Retreat to Coralhelms, which I like. If you go combo route, you might as well go with 3 copies.
I'm not sure about the 3rd tracker and Eternal Witness, but Selfless Spirits and Mindcensors are great versus Valakut decks.
I'm not sure if the sideboard is overkill, but it really goes answer lots of problems. Flashfreeze is also good versus Counters Company and even Jund. I'd really miss the Reflector Mages, but Flashfreeze and Ceremonious Rejection probably makes up for it in the matchups where you normally want Mages (like Eldrazi Tron).
I might try it (without Retreats).
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/6wdurp/modern_1st_at_37_man_pptq_with_vizier_knightfall/
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I haven't tried the Vizier version TBH, but I've been wondering why that version doesn't play Spell Queller. It is by far and away the best card in traditional Bant Knightfall and does everything you'd want it to do - is a creature, provides evasive damage, and of course most importantly "counters" important spells that your opponent casts (Karn, Scapeshift, etc.). Queller is an absolute blow-out card. How come people aren't finding a way to slot it into Vizier lists?
My sideboard usually is just Linvala, Keeper of Silence, and I have 1 extra Path to side in. Also, I mainboard 2 Aven Mindcensors which could theoretically slow it a bit.
Additionally, I used to play with 2 Staticasters in the side, but I found, unlike what Kelvin Chew had said in his article, that they don't help stop the combo, since Druid is 2 toughness and you can put the activation on the stack so they still have infinite mana after you kill Vizier of Remedies. (Unless I'm using Staticaster wrong?)
Btw, nothing beats knight even queller. Without knight, the deck doesn't exist! She was love at first sight for me.
Legacy: Burn, UR Prowess