It's good to see our lists all starting to converge. Here's what I'm locked into playing for the next month. I want to get data on a couple flex spots and how well they're performing, specifically the Dismember over the 4th Fatal Push, adding a Treetop Village to go up to 20 lands, and testing a 3/3 discard split.
Been playing some games with a more leaner version of the delirium deck by saintdoom on redit, only to discover the amazing synergy of Grim Flayer and Nissa, Steward of Elements.
Wanted to play with this card in modern for a while and i must say it's pretty sweet.
Obviously, she goes well with Bob too, but the other way around
Great card and a worthwile adition to the deck.
I'm currently back on my more control centric version of Sultai - and I can tell you that even in that version Nissa Steward of Elements is arguably the most dangerous card in there. She hits ultimate insanely fast and doing this while digging for additional threats is strong. She has insane synergy with both Grim Flayer and Jace, the Mind Sculptor I personally like her more then Liliana of the Veil these days because she turns the corner quickly if left on the field for more then a turn. People at my LGS attempt to remove her almost immediately for this reason.
I will say that she is best vs Control and Midrange. Tapping out for her against aggro in early turns isn't advised as turn 3 tends to be really critical against hyper fast decks like Affinity or Burn.
You have a list to share? I'm also opting to go for Nissa and some good mix of 2 and maybe 3 drops. Don't want to go all in delirium, because it's hated out too easily I feel.
I don't really have a firm list and even since this last post what I play has changed a lot (hovering back and forth between numbers of LotV vs Nissa for instance.) I'll put something up after this fnm, but I'm basically running a version that utilizes thoughtscour.
I'll make a suggestion to anyone using a full discard suite. Don't dilute it with counters, with or without LotV its not good (I found this out the hard way.) Jeskai will eat you alive if you attempt to play a weaker version of their control game.
Currently Jeskai is really huge in my Meta, and as such just like during GP a lot of players locally are bringing out the colorless big guns with Tron. You need to have a unified gameplan, and not try to play both sides of the field.
Either I'm attempting to maximize hand interaction so that I can stick a threat in the first 3 turns and close with it + a manland. Or I am looking to deny my opponent advancement of his board state+advantage so that I can stick a walker or 2 and ride that to victory.
Sultai Control is viable....but it definitely is a very different game plan. Very much unlike most of the Sultai decks I've seen here.
This is what I am on currently. It is a bit unorthodox. It is definitely an experiment meant to maximize potential blowouts by Jace, the Mind Sculptor It is more controlling than the typical midrange shell - I am looking to create fissures in my opponents game plan by isolating cards in their deck and either exiling them to cripple what they're doing allowing walkers to take over, or - I am cutting their answers to a threat in my hand and simply beating them down.
The concept behind my "Black Hole" version of this deck is that I am using thought scours in line with hand disruption as a bridge to gain intel while strengthening my tarmogoyfs, and giving me lines of play that cripple my opponents strategy.
- Tarmogoyfs are pumped, often at instant speed. Thought scour allows additional turn 1 plays that curve well into tarmogoyf, open my opponent to a surprise surgical extraction, ditch their scryed topdecks, or in late game give me more ammo for snapcaster, or ditch unwanted cards placed on top of my deck with Jtms brainstorms.
- Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, and JtmS create a large card advantage engine to offset the card disadvantage potentially created through surgical extraction.
- I punch holes in my opponents plan with Surgical Extraction allowing JtmS to more frequently use fateseal on curve while placing himself outside of bolt range.
Right now my sideboard is far from set. Though my meta is mostly Jeskai/UWx and Tron, with a splash of artifact based strategies like Affinity, KCI, and Tezzerator along with a frequent Bogles player.
Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions. I'm a very creative player who likes to play aggressive disruption based strategies rather then leaning on creatures heavily in my builds. I like to take away my opponents toys!
I have this BUG list I’ve played about 10 games with and enjoy it a lot, but DO admit it can be difficult to sequence. Depending on what you have in play, you can have the top 3-6 cards of your library as an extension of your hand so there are a lot of decision making and future planning to set up the right topdeck, leave a land on top, or a creature 2nd-3rd from the top, or whether you should activate a PW or swing first. I still haven’t gotten that down yet but I would hope someone else could give it a try and see how complex the lines and decision making is.
I haven’t come up with a SB plan yet as I’ve only tested the MB. The cards listed in SB are just thoughts and not real.
Some adjustments I’m thinking of making are adding scavenging ooze x2 over the tireless tracker x2 to lower the curve and gain a little more life. I noticed I’m dealing myself a lot of damage from lands and confidant flips. I like tracker in the long games because of the value and extra card draw, as I can easily know what I will draw, but noticed tracker is a little clunky at 3cmc and 2 to draw the card. I wouldn’t mind a 1 of though. Also cutting 1x dark confidant for 1x snapcaster mage. I’d like maybe 1 more snap but not sure what to cut.
CURRENTLY PLAYING Legacy: BWG Junk Modern: BGR Jund BUG BUG URW American Control BWG Junk BWR Dega midrange GWR Naya Zoo EDH: BWG Teneb, the Harvester Pauper EDH: WG Sigil Captain Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
I hear many people saying Liliana of the Veil is not great in the current meta. But i stumble to understand why. Can anyone explain this?
Also, i think Liliana of the Veil DOES synergize with Snapcaster Mage, as long as you discard instant and sorcery spells. Sure, you lose the 2for1 but gain the single sided effect on liliana's +1, pretty much the same way Junk uses it with Lingering Souls sometimes.
The same applies to the following statement: Grim Flayer fits a deck with Snapcaster Mage better than Dark Confidant in that it pitches the spells you can flash back to the graveyard sans the lifeloss. Especially in the traverse based builds.
I agree. Discarding Snapcaster Mage feels very wrong, and i strongly advise not to do that obviously :).
I ment it in the way that you can cast your discarded spell with Snapcaster Mage the same way as Junk uses Lingering Souls.
It must be said though, that in my build i have discarded powerfull cards to activate delirium and use that advantage immediately, by either attacking with flayer to fix my top or fetch a needed land or creature card.
I'm on the lean version of the deliriumdeck for a few weeks now and i must admit, it's pretty strong and more disruptive but a lot harder to pilot than the grindy midrange version i ran before. It's also very weak to EE on 2 so i fixed my flex creature slots to broaded the scope somewhat.
The fact that this deck is leaner and lower on lands also means LotV has less spare lands to discard, so if i have to, i pitch spells.
What I was running was too cute - as Velthov suggested. When things lined up it would just win the game on the spot (any hand with turn 1 discard and surgical was pretty hilarious and often put my opponent on tilt immediately.) When they didn't - surgical just became a bad top deck which is not what I wanted at all. I also felt light on threats which is also not a good feeling.
I've done a lot of testing - and losing. But I'm going to share some ideas here, and truth be told Jund might even benefit from some of the things I picked up on. 1 card in particular.
This card is just stupid good right now in the current meta. It absolutely eats control alive - they either have path or get ran down hard by it. For those of you who aren't crazy about Dark Confidant. This little a-hole really gets things done as he takes 2 removal spells to ditch and he has haste. Earlier there was some talk of UGx with black being the splash as opposed to UBg. Going forward I think this card may be a fantastic way to evolve what mid range is doing when green is in the picture. Basically anytime you aren't dropping a goyf, he can be a real pain. He is GG. So that is an issue. But I highly suggest trying him out. He's an all-star against control, other midrange decks (He was quite good against Mardu Pyromancer) and most importantly he's fast and only gets bigger, so he isn't exactly bad against decks you want to race either.
I am playing around with a list - I'll see where it goes. I will say he probably runs better with red in the picture. But I still think he can do work here too.
The curve you describe here costs you 8 life points pretty often (Fetch, Obligatory shock, Thoughtseize, Surgical +T2 Fetch). That's probably 10 life more often if you want to hit LotV or Snap+Discard on T3. Is that really worth it?
By that time you could probably run Death's Shadow.
In the past, I played kiki chord and then esper control a lot. I have top 8'd a mid to small-size (200 players) event with the first and never did any results with the second outside of a 4-1 in competitive league Somehow this deck is a better mix of the two, in the sense that I kept a substantial amount of draw-go (esper), I have a toolbox with traverse (kiki), with on top a good clock and plays at a discounted mana cost (compared to esper and kiki).
Here are a few explanations on the card choices:
Engine:
The engine to accelerate to delirium is pretty straightforward: 8 fetchlands, 4 mishra's bauble and 4 thought scour.
Delirium gives access to our tools (creatures and lands) and tarmogoyf, snapcaster mage, liliana, the last hope and pulse of murasa are there to recycle the trash. Pulse of murasa is frankly flex slot but it has so much impact on aggro games that I could not live without it
The engine being cheap it is also possible to go as low as 20 lands without noticing any slow down (of course you can get mana screwed occasionally but who never does ).
removals
Going away from the remove (nearly)-all path to exile was a shock. Fatal push is good but has a lot of misses in the current format. So I decided to diversify removal with cast down, abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, liliana of the veil and sultai charm in one of. It gave the advantage to be flexible and to have nearly an answer to anything.
Ballista (our delirium friend), jace (yes I prefer architect of thoughts one for its impact on the board, notably with lingering souls being a very played card) and liliana, the last hope are also decent at removing little dudes.
Sideboard comes with more mass options, ie EE, bontu, damnation and golgari charm. Shriekmaw is a nice tutorable answer to titans, reveler and the like and can be a clock in the late game.
Disruption
I have often seen a traditional discard package in those decks, being 3 iok and 3 thoughtseize. While I totally appreciate the effect of discard to avoid certain stupidity of this format while getting information, I often found the thoughtseize a liability (outside of big mana decks, which is the reason why my sideboard has some cards dedicated to these MUs) with the loss of life and how bad they are in top deck mode. That's why I reduced these effects and favoured counterspells, a.o. 2 cryptic command (which notably stall boards, can deal with problematic and resolved permanent and/or draw a card, on top of value created with snapcaster mage in the late game) and which are generally in time for the high cmc you would have taken with TS, while the removal package is flexible enough to deal with the rest (and again outside of big mana decks such as tron ...).
Our tools
scavenging ooze to slowly lock the opponent's graveyard and in the sideboard bojuka bog to have an instant remove all opponent's graveyard button against fast graveyard-centric strategy.
tireless tracker won so many games. once the dust is settled, tutor it and she will do the rest.
vendilion clique is the only flyer in the deck, which is very handy in several MUs. The disruption that it has is also very much appreciated in several MUs.
walking ballista: good removal and way to deal the final blows. Noticeable favorable effect on delirium.
A ghost quarter (because some lands in modern are cancer) and some other creatures in the sideboard (most of them being pretty much self-explanatory).
There you go. I totally appreciate that people tend to like a more tapped-out version of thisdeck but I believe I reached a good compromise between tap and draw go that fits my playstyle better. At the end of the day, I do not know or believe this deck is the best achievable version of a sultai deck but I have a lot of fun with it and the results are so far good; so that's all that matters to me
After a small hiatus from posting, I only ever posted once lol, I decided to come back strong with a tournament report and some insight...
First, the decklist
Second, the results...
Overall 3-1-2 (6-3-2) 2 I.D.
Let me say, I'm not going to go over every turn by turn, but I will make some key observations and mention key turning points or plays. Match 1 GW Lands (2-0)
My opponent played wooded foothills, grabbed a basic forest and played noble... I was fearful of Blood moon so I sniped the noble with push and fetched accordingly. I soon realized it was GW Lands/Value after I saw ghost quarters and Ramunap Excavator. The matchup feels favorable. So long as you don't let them stick a way to recur lands (i.e. Ghost Quarter) from the grave... essentially line up removal properly and let Liliana/flaying tendrils deal with birds and nobles in the midgame... win the game. Match 2 UW Teferai Gideon Control (2-1)
This match went to time but I won game 3 in turns... I had him on the backfoot game 1; however; he stuck a Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to tuck my six loyalty Liliana, The Last Hope... I couldn't find my pulse in time to stop the Teferi from ultimate to which he then just exiled all my stuff and beat me to death with Gideon of the Trials and Celestial Colonnade. Game 2 I landed 2 Pithing Needle early first one naming Celestial colonnade, as I Thoughtseized away a copy of Teferi. the second naming Teferi. I was at 14. Couldn't draw my threats to apply pressure though I was can-tripping through my whole deck... just lands. Eventually, he finds a detention sphere to steal my needles and get two hits in with his colonnade. I finally find a Liliana, the last hope though my opponent has Celestial Purge in hand and facing down a colonnade I blind -2 and find Kitchen Finks I cast the finks which gain me life back up to 8, he colonnade beats Lili. then I find another Liliana, the Last Hope for another blind -2 which finds me a Snapcaster to decay the sphere and get the needles down again. he verdicts the board. I go back to 10 and have a 2/1 finks and start beating down... I eventually find Tasigur and Goyf and he draws air as i start getting cards back with tasi. game 3 i mull to 6 with three goyf, 1 lili, 1 land, 1 decay, 1 forest on the draw i keep, risky.. i know... but i had to end the game fast or risk the draw. Eventually my third resolved goyf and a tasi get there on turn 3 of 5. Matchup feels.... kinda 45/55 their way game 1 due to Verdict, but post-board when you add needles, and disdainful stroke it feels pretty 60/40 my way. Match 3 Esper Thopter Sword (2-0)
Game 1 he fetched delta for an island and played Expedition Map, the fear of mono-blue Tron, even though they don't normally play fetches, forced me to stub his expedition map on turn 1, then he played swamp and I stubbed his collective brutality on two, he started picking apart my hand with thoughtseize... he plays a couple artifacts, a timely topdeck thoughtseize lets me take his Thopter foundry and he topdecks Sword of the Meek I find Goyf and start beating for 5 and he draws running lands.
Game 2 I keep a 7 with 4 lands, decay, snapcaster, pithing needle. He turn 1 thoughtseized and was forced to take needle due to not siding in the abrupt decays in his board... I am able to hold up decay for the rest of the game and find Scavenging Ooze and a Tarmogoyf and a second needle to lock him out of winning. He finds ensaring bridge which meets my decay and he floods on lands. This matchup feels 60/40 my way game one due to decay being a house against what his deck is trying to do. Only going further in my favor with a 70/30 split post board due to Needles and Night of Souls' Betrayal we can win past infinite life with Jace, the Mind Sculptor ultimate... is it ideal? no, but I've won more than my fair share of games with it. Match 4 Mardu Pyromancer (1-1-1)ID
Intentional Draw, I was happy as this matchup every time I play it feels pretty difficult to pilot Match 5 UR Wizards (1-1-1) ID
Intentional Draw, this matchup seems impossible to lose for me... decays are a house against any Delver strategy, it's more about managing my life total than anything else. as they have limited answers for Goyf and Tasigur, and post board with disfigure, brutality, 3 finks, and Thragtusk coming in... its neigh unlosable. Top 8
Match 1 Ad Nauseam (1-2)
G1, I stick an early Goyf and realize early on I am playing against Ad Nauseam and already have a stub in hand so I dig for the second one in case he has the Pact of Negation... he find Phyrexian Unlife as I find my second stub. he attempts to go off and I stub his Ad Naus, he pacts my stub, I stub his Ad Naus again. he scoops.
G2, I mull to 6 looking for either needle or disruption. I find a stub but no ferocious enabler. long story short, I find a brutality the turn before he is supposed to go off. I attempt to brutality he has the pact, un-taps angels grace, Ad Naus on turn 4. I was on 3 lands and couldn't interact.
G3, I mull to 6, find Snapcaster, chart a course, stub, 2 lands, serum... I dig for threats but don't find any. he serum visions once! the only cantrip he played all game. turn 4 comes up I find a thoughtseize. Attempt to thoughtseize... he pacts, I snap thoughtseize, he pacts again... un-tap angels grace, lotus bloom off suspend, 1 land untapped... sac bloom, tap the land, exile simian spirit guide Ad Naus... GG...
A matchup I feel like if my opponent doesn't have a nut draw. I can win. But does require some finagling. I would say 45/55 their way. due to lack of counterspells, plus lack of 2-drop pressure if Goyf isn't in the opening hand.
Third, Overall thoughts and changes...
Overall my history with this deck over the past month or so I've lost legit 6 games of magic... over the past month I'm riding high on 22-6-2 record that's a 73% win rate between FNM and 2 major 5+ round events with 1k payouts, I went (4-2) and missed top 8 on breakers, and then (3-0-2) losing in the first round of top 8... I've missed the cut for top 8 prizes at FNM ONCE. This deck feels like the real deal, the only matchups I would say are difficult or losing matchups would be Humans, only cause I haven't jammed against them enough to really truly know the best route of action to take to beating them; However, reflector mage game 1 is back-breaking if you have multiple Goyfs in hand or just resolved a Tasi and if they can land a Thalia's Luietenant before you can Flaying Tendrils away a good majority of their things.. the matchup obviously is bad...
I would also say Mardu Pyromancer is bad, because of how effectively they churn through their deck, as well as chump blocking Goyf for days game 1 anyway... post board with Night of Souls' Betrayal, tokens and YP no longer matter, but Hazoret the Fervent is a pain to deal with...
I would also say Tron is a pain, only cause inevitability obviously and also Titan-shift decks are a pain cause we don't interact with lands effectively and we have no counters for primetime mainboard and again chumps with Sakura-Tribe Elder are highly annoying... Other than those matchups every other matchup feels either 50/50 or better in my opinion. Of course, it could be that I am playing an unknown deck and surprising some with no real idea of how to attack this deck or it could be the deck is that good. I'm willing to bet on the latter.
The only changes I really want to make to this deck are fixing some sideboard numbers, I often overcompensate for the burn match, mainly cause I hate losing to it. So my immediate thoughts to change were trimming finks down to 2 and removing thragtusk and brutality from the board... for 3 other cards that i'm not sure of yet.
The few changes I want to make to the mainboard is maybe switching the number of Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions... So sleight will be 4 and visions will be 2-of, Taking scavenging ooze out and trimming Tasigur to 1-of for 2 Tireless Tracker. and maybe sending the third Thoughtseize to the sideboard for something else. I'm not 100% sure yet... I'll keep everyone posted.
At first glance I would say that the mana base needs some work. Other than that, would it work as a starting point for a midrange BUG deck? If not, what should be replaced?
Thanks!
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Just finished a league with the above list, plus an FNM. Humans and Bridgevine are unfavorable, you can beat humans but Bridgevine is real bad. Burn, Bogles, anything midrange, Affinity, and a few others were even to favorable.
A lot of Sultai criticism is having to justify why put blue in the deck. Assassin's Trophy is a very good reason to go blue with Snapcaster mage. Sultai can possibly be the best GBx combination now in Modern. Thoughts?
EDIT: Also, gives us a HUGE answer to Tron, which is very exciting!
Snap + Trophy is great indeed. Now I ain't sure Snap brings enough to the table in comp to the other BG(x) archetypes. What other blue card has been a reason to play blue over pther colors so far ?
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
In non-LotV versions, having access to mainboard stubs is really nice. Plays a lot like painless deaths shadow. Honestly, even with lily, its got a knack for just 'catching' certain decks and throwing a wrench in tje works. Serum visions is also card quality, and shouldn't be discounted. Abzan, Jund and Rock all insta-mull 1 land hands. If i see one land and a castable serum, i keep. Having jace at the top end is... ok i guess. Lotta folks dont even bother, but he is at his best in a deck thay can protect him, which Bg is good at. Counters out of the side give you game against a completely different list of decks than traditional Bg.
Will the surveil mechanic (think: azcanta + thought erasure etc) and snapcaster mage + assasin's trophy beckon a renaissance in modern Sultai? I mean, if you can glean information from your opponent's hand, plan your surveil accordingly PLUS manipulate/access to graveyard cards (traverse the underworld/delirium activation?) , i think Sultai stands a real chance of resurgence.
BUT, in what shell though? Mid-range with goyfs? Or, although i am a little skeptical of, control?(feels like Sultai is still lacking good board wipe and some inevitability like celestial colonnade in the control build). I believe Sultai is now just missing ONE bonkers 3-4 mana game closing threat to ascend to tier 1 and we can hope that with more dimir and golgari cards to come, that might come into fruition sooner rather than later!
Snap + Trophy is great indeed. Now I ain't sure Snap brings enough to the table in comp to the other BG(x) archetypes. What other blue card has been a reason to play blue over pther colors so far ?
Snap + Trophy is great indeed. Now I ain't sure Snap brings enough to the table in comp to the other BG(x) archetypes. What other blue card has been a reason to play blue over pther colors so far ?
Thought Scour plus Angler/Tasigur is also an edge. Goyf + Stubs is strong too. I worry that Trophy doesn't fully make up for Sultai's underlying and historic weaknesses, but I do think that Snap/Trophy on its own is a potent one-for-one removal strategy.
Thought Scour plus Angler/Tasigur is also an edge. Goyf + Stubs is strong too. I worry that Trophy doesn't fully make up for Sultai's underlying and historic weaknesses, but I do think that Snap/Trophy on its own is a potent one-for-one removal strategy.
Trophy won't be a 4 of, but it's pretty good. It's going in my BUG list for sure, and my list can hold it's own well enough.
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4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Treetop Village
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Island
// Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Mishra's Bauble
// Creature (13)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Grim Flayer
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
// Instant (8)
3x Fatal Push
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Cast Down
1x Dismember
// Sorcery (11)
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Negate
1x Golgari Charm
1x Damnation
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Shriekmaw
I don't really have a firm list and even since this last post what I play has changed a lot (hovering back and forth between numbers of LotV vs Nissa for instance.) I'll put something up after this fnm, but I'm basically running a version that utilizes thoughtscour.
Currently Jeskai is really huge in my Meta, and as such just like during GP a lot of players locally are bringing out the colorless big guns with Tron. You need to have a unified gameplan, and not try to play both sides of the field.
Either I'm attempting to maximize hand interaction so that I can stick a threat in the first 3 turns and close with it + a manland. Or I am looking to deny my opponent advancement of his board state+advantage so that I can stick a walker or 2 and ride that to victory.
Sultai Control is viable....but it definitely is a very different game plan. Very much unlike most of the Sultai decks I've seen here.
This is what I am on currently. It is a bit unorthodox. It is definitely an experiment meant to maximize potential blowouts by Jace, the Mind Sculptor It is more controlling than the typical midrange shell - I am looking to create fissures in my opponents game plan by isolating cards in their deck and either exiling them to cripple what they're doing allowing walkers to take over, or - I am cutting their answers to a threat in my hand and simply beating them down.
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (9)
3 Dark Confidant
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
Instants (11)
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Cast Down
3 Fatal Push
3 Thought Scour
2 Surgical Extraction
Sorcery (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Serum Visions
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Breeding Pool
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Lost Legacy
2 Dampening Sphere
2 Spreading Seas
2 Damnation
2 Spellskite
You may ask why 2 surgical extractions main board? Why thought scours without Delve threats?
The concept behind my "Black Hole" version of this deck is that I am using thought scours in line with hand disruption as a bridge to gain intel while strengthening my tarmogoyfs, and giving me lines of play that cripple my opponents strategy.
- Tarmogoyfs are pumped, often at instant speed. Thought scour allows additional turn 1 plays that curve well into tarmogoyf, open my opponent to a surprise surgical extraction, ditch their scryed topdecks, or in late game give me more ammo for snapcaster, or ditch unwanted cards placed on top of my deck with Jtms brainstorms.
- Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, and JtmS create a large card advantage engine to offset the card disadvantage potentially created through surgical extraction.
- I punch holes in my opponents plan with Surgical Extraction allowing JtmS to more frequently use fateseal on curve while placing himself outside of bolt range.
Right now my sideboard is far from set. Though my meta is mostly Jeskai/UWx and Tron, with a splash of artifact based strategies like Affinity, KCI, and Tezzerator along with a frequent Bogles player.
Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions. I'm a very creative player who likes to play aggressive disruption based strategies rather then leaning on creatures heavily in my builds. I like to take away my opponents toys!
I haven’t come up with a SB plan yet as I’ve only tested the MB. The cards listed in SB are just thoughts and not real.
Some adjustments I’m thinking of making are adding scavenging ooze x2 over the tireless tracker x2 to lower the curve and gain a little more life. I noticed I’m dealing myself a lot of damage from lands and confidant flips. I like tracker in the long games because of the value and extra card draw, as I can easily know what I will draw, but noticed tracker is a little clunky at 3cmc and 2 to draw the card. I wouldn’t mind a 1 of though. Also cutting 1x dark confidant for 1x snapcaster mage. I’d like maybe 1 more snap but not sure what to cut.
3 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Tireless Tracker
Spells:23
3 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cast Down
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Forest
2 Hissing Quagmire
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Hostage Taker
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Damping Sphere
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Damnation
CURRENTLY PLAYING
Legacy:
BWG Junk
Modern:
BGR Jund
BUG BUG
URW American Control
BWG Junk
BWR Dega midrange
GWR Naya Zoo
EDH:
BWG Teneb, the Harvester
Pauper EDH:
WG Sigil Captain
Standard:
Well I used to play standard...
El_snoope's haves and wants list
Also, i think Liliana of the Veil DOES synergize with Snapcaster Mage, as long as you discard instant and sorcery spells. Sure, you lose the 2for1 but gain the single sided effect on liliana's +1, pretty much the same way Junk uses it with Lingering Souls sometimes.
The same applies to the following statement:
Grim Flayer fits a deck with Snapcaster Mage better than Dark Confidant in that it pitches the spells you can flash back to the graveyard sans the lifeloss. Especially in the traverse based builds.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I ment it in the way that you can cast your discarded spell with Snapcaster Mage the same way as Junk uses Lingering Souls.
It must be said though, that in my build i have discarded powerfull cards to activate delirium and use that advantage immediately, by either attacking with flayer to fix my top or fetch a needed land or creature card.
I'm on the lean version of the deliriumdeck for a few weeks now and i must admit, it's pretty strong and more disruptive but a lot harder to pilot than the grindy midrange version i ran before. It's also very weak to EE on 2 so i fixed my flex creature slots to broaded the scope somewhat.
The fact that this deck is leaner and lower on lands also means LotV has less spare lands to discard, so if i have to, i pitch spells.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I've done a lot of testing - and losing. But I'm going to share some ideas here, and truth be told Jund might even benefit from some of the things I picked up on. 1 card in particular.
Strangleroot Geist
This card is just stupid good right now in the current meta. It absolutely eats control alive - they either have path or get ran down hard by it. For those of you who aren't crazy about Dark Confidant. This little a-hole really gets things done as he takes 2 removal spells to ditch and he has haste. Earlier there was some talk of UGx with black being the splash as opposed to UBg. Going forward I think this card may be a fantastic way to evolve what mid range is doing when green is in the picture. Basically anytime you aren't dropping a goyf, he can be a real pain. He is GG. So that is an issue. But I highly suggest trying him out. He's an all-star against control, other midrange decks (He was quite good against Mardu Pyromancer) and most importantly he's fast and only gets bigger, so he isn't exactly bad against decks you want to race either.
I am playing around with a list - I'll see where it goes. I will say he probably runs better with red in the picture. But I still think he can do work here too.
By that time you could probably run Death's Shadow.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Here is my attempt at a more control focused list.
https://deckstats.net/decks/20993/1034638-sultai-control?saved=1&lng=fr
In the past, I played kiki chord and then esper control a lot. I have top 8'd a mid to small-size (200 players) event with the first and never did any results with the second outside of a 4-1 in competitive league Somehow this deck is a better mix of the two, in the sense that I kept a substantial amount of draw-go (esper), I have a toolbox with traverse (kiki), with on top a good clock and plays at a discounted mana cost (compared to esper and kiki).
Here are a few explanations on the card choices:
Engine:
The engine to accelerate to delirium is pretty straightforward: 8 fetchlands, 4 mishra's bauble and 4 thought scour.
Delirium gives access to our tools (creatures and lands) and tarmogoyf, snapcaster mage, liliana, the last hope and pulse of murasa are there to recycle the trash. Pulse of murasa is frankly flex slot but it has so much impact on aggro games that I could not live without it
The engine being cheap it is also possible to go as low as 20 lands without noticing any slow down (of course you can get mana screwed occasionally but who never does ).
removals
Going away from the remove (nearly)-all path to exile was a shock. Fatal push is good but has a lot of misses in the current format. So I decided to diversify removal with cast down, abrupt decay, maelstrom pulse, liliana of the veil and sultai charm in one of. It gave the advantage to be flexible and to have nearly an answer to anything.
Ballista (our delirium friend), jace (yes I prefer architect of thoughts one for its impact on the board, notably with lingering souls being a very played card) and liliana, the last hope are also decent at removing little dudes.
Sideboard comes with more mass options, ie EE, bontu, damnation and golgari charm. Shriekmaw is a nice tutorable answer to titans, reveler and the like and can be a clock in the late game.
Disruption
I have often seen a traditional discard package in those decks, being 3 iok and 3 thoughtseize. While I totally appreciate the effect of discard to avoid certain stupidity of this format while getting information, I often found the thoughtseize a liability (outside of big mana decks, which is the reason why my sideboard has some cards dedicated to these MUs) with the loss of life and how bad they are in top deck mode. That's why I reduced these effects and favoured counterspells, a.o. 2 cryptic command (which notably stall boards, can deal with problematic and resolved permanent and/or draw a card, on top of value created with snapcaster mage in the late game) and which are generally in time for the high cmc you would have taken with TS, while the removal package is flexible enough to deal with the rest (and again outside of big mana decks such as tron ...).
Our tools
scavenging ooze to slowly lock the opponent's graveyard and in the sideboard bojuka bog to have an instant remove all opponent's graveyard button against fast graveyard-centric strategy.
tireless tracker won so many games. once the dust is settled, tutor it and she will do the rest.
vendilion clique is the only flyer in the deck, which is very handy in several MUs. The disruption that it has is also very much appreciated in several MUs.
walking ballista: good removal and way to deal the final blows. Noticeable favorable effect on delirium.
A ghost quarter (because some lands in modern are cancer) and some other creatures in the sideboard (most of them being pretty much self-explanatory).
There you go. I totally appreciate that people tend to like a more tapped-out version of thisdeck but I believe I reached a good compromise between tap and draw go that fits my playstyle better. At the end of the day, I do not know or believe this deck is the best achievable version of a sultai deck but I have a lot of fun with it and the results are so far good; so that's all that matters to me
Have fun all !
First, the decklist
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Scavenging Ooze
Fifteen Sorceries
4 Serum Visions
3 Chart a Course
3 Thoughtseize
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Eleven Instants
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Stubborn Denial
1 Dismember
1 Cast Down
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Twenty-Two Lands
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Disfigure
1 Collective brutality
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Thragtusk
2 Pithing Needle
2 Damping Sphere
2 Disdainful Stroke
3 Kitchen Finks
Second, the results...
Overall 3-1-2 (6-3-2) 2 I.D.
Let me say, I'm not going to go over every turn by turn, but I will make some key observations and mention key turning points or plays.
Match 1 GW Lands (2-0)
My opponent played wooded foothills, grabbed a basic forest and played noble... I was fearful of Blood moon so I sniped the noble with push and fetched accordingly. I soon realized it was GW Lands/Value after I saw ghost quarters and Ramunap Excavator. The matchup feels favorable. So long as you don't let them stick a way to recur lands (i.e. Ghost Quarter) from the grave... essentially line up removal properly and let Liliana/flaying tendrils deal with birds and nobles in the midgame... win the game.
Match 2 UW Teferai Gideon Control (2-1)
This match went to time but I won game 3 in turns... I had him on the backfoot game 1; however; he stuck a Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to tuck my six loyalty Liliana, The Last Hope... I couldn't find my pulse in time to stop the Teferi from ultimate to which he then just exiled all my stuff and beat me to death with Gideon of the Trials and Celestial Colonnade. Game 2 I landed 2 Pithing Needle early first one naming Celestial colonnade, as I Thoughtseized away a copy of Teferi. the second naming Teferi. I was at 14. Couldn't draw my threats to apply pressure though I was can-tripping through my whole deck... just lands. Eventually, he finds a detention sphere to steal my needles and get two hits in with his colonnade. I finally find a Liliana, the last hope though my opponent has Celestial Purge in hand and facing down a colonnade I blind -2 and find Kitchen Finks I cast the finks which gain me life back up to 8, he colonnade beats Lili. then I find another Liliana, the Last Hope for another blind -2 which finds me a Snapcaster to decay the sphere and get the needles down again. he verdicts the board. I go back to 10 and have a 2/1 finks and start beating down... I eventually find Tasigur and Goyf and he draws air as i start getting cards back with tasi. game 3 i mull to 6 with three goyf, 1 lili, 1 land, 1 decay, 1 forest on the draw i keep, risky.. i know... but i had to end the game fast or risk the draw. Eventually my third resolved goyf and a tasi get there on turn 3 of 5. Matchup feels.... kinda 45/55 their way game 1 due to Verdict, but post-board when you add needles, and disdainful stroke it feels pretty 60/40 my way.
Match 3 Esper Thopter Sword (2-0)
Game 1 he fetched delta for an island and played Expedition Map, the fear of mono-blue Tron, even though they don't normally play fetches, forced me to stub his expedition map on turn 1, then he played swamp and I stubbed his collective brutality on two, he started picking apart my hand with thoughtseize... he plays a couple artifacts, a timely topdeck thoughtseize lets me take his Thopter foundry and he topdecks Sword of the Meek I find Goyf and start beating for 5 and he draws running lands.
Game 2 I keep a 7 with 4 lands, decay, snapcaster, pithing needle. He turn 1 thoughtseized and was forced to take needle due to not siding in the abrupt decays in his board... I am able to hold up decay for the rest of the game and find Scavenging Ooze and a Tarmogoyf and a second needle to lock him out of winning. He finds ensaring bridge which meets my decay and he floods on lands. This matchup feels 60/40 my way game one due to decay being a house against what his deck is trying to do. Only going further in my favor with a 70/30 split post board due to Needles and Night of Souls' Betrayal we can win past infinite life with Jace, the Mind Sculptor ultimate... is it ideal? no, but I've won more than my fair share of games with it.
Match 4 Mardu Pyromancer (1-1-1)ID
Intentional Draw, I was happy as this matchup every time I play it feels pretty difficult to pilot
Match 5 UR Wizards (1-1-1) ID
Intentional Draw, this matchup seems impossible to lose for me... decays are a house against any Delver strategy, it's more about managing my life total than anything else. as they have limited answers for Goyf and Tasigur, and post board with disfigure, brutality, 3 finks, and Thragtusk coming in... its neigh unlosable.
Top 8
Match 1 Ad Nauseam (1-2)
G1, I stick an early Goyf and realize early on I am playing against Ad Nauseam and already have a stub in hand so I dig for the second one in case he has the Pact of Negation... he find Phyrexian Unlife as I find my second stub. he attempts to go off and I stub his Ad Naus, he pacts my stub, I stub his Ad Naus again. he scoops.
G2, I mull to 6 looking for either needle or disruption. I find a stub but no ferocious enabler. long story short, I find a brutality the turn before he is supposed to go off. I attempt to brutality he has the pact, un-taps angels grace, Ad Naus on turn 4. I was on 3 lands and couldn't interact.
G3, I mull to 6, find Snapcaster, chart a course, stub, 2 lands, serum... I dig for threats but don't find any. he serum visions once! the only cantrip he played all game. turn 4 comes up I find a thoughtseize. Attempt to thoughtseize... he pacts, I snap thoughtseize, he pacts again... un-tap angels grace, lotus bloom off suspend, 1 land untapped... sac bloom, tap the land, exile simian spirit guide Ad Naus... GG...
A matchup I feel like if my opponent doesn't have a nut draw. I can win. But does require some finagling. I would say 45/55 their way. due to lack of counterspells, plus lack of 2-drop pressure if Goyf isn't in the opening hand.
Third, Overall thoughts and changes...
Overall my history with this deck over the past month or so I've lost legit 6 games of magic... over the past month I'm riding high on 22-6-2 record that's a 73% win rate between FNM and 2 major 5+ round events with 1k payouts, I went (4-2) and missed top 8 on breakers, and then (3-0-2) losing in the first round of top 8... I've missed the cut for top 8 prizes at FNM ONCE. This deck feels like the real deal, the only matchups I would say are difficult or losing matchups would be Humans, only cause I haven't jammed against them enough to really truly know the best route of action to take to beating them; However, reflector mage game 1 is back-breaking if you have multiple Goyfs in hand or just resolved a Tasi and if they can land a Thalia's Luietenant before you can Flaying Tendrils away a good majority of their things.. the matchup obviously is bad...
I would also say Mardu Pyromancer is bad, because of how effectively they churn through their deck, as well as chump blocking Goyf for days game 1 anyway... post board with Night of Souls' Betrayal, tokens and YP no longer matter, but Hazoret the Fervent is a pain to deal with...
I would also say Tron is a pain, only cause inevitability obviously and also Titan-shift decks are a pain cause we don't interact with lands effectively and we have no counters for primetime mainboard and again chumps with Sakura-Tribe Elder are highly annoying... Other than those matchups every other matchup feels either 50/50 or better in my opinion. Of course, it could be that I am playing an unknown deck and surprising some with no real idea of how to attack this deck or it could be the deck is that good. I'm willing to bet on the latter.
The only changes I really want to make to this deck are fixing some sideboard numbers, I often overcompensate for the burn match, mainly cause I hate losing to it. So my immediate thoughts to change were trimming finks down to 2 and removing thragtusk and brutality from the board... for 3 other cards that i'm not sure of yet.
The few changes I want to make to the mainboard is maybe switching the number of Sleight of Hand and Serum Visions... So sleight will be 4 and visions will be 2-of, Taking scavenging ooze out and trimming Tasigur to 1-of for 2 Tireless Tracker. and maybe sending the third Thoughtseize to the sideboard for something else. I'm not 100% sure yet... I'll keep everyone posted.
I just stumbled upon this list (link), and thought that playing some BUG midrange may be fun:
3 Blooming Marsh
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Field of Ruin
2 Forest
2 Hissing Quagmire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cast Down
2 Collective Brutality
1 Eternal Witness
4 Fatal Push
1 Hostage Taker
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Natural State
1 Negate
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Yahenni's Expertise
Thanks!
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Field of Ruin
Creatures 13
3 Stitcher's Supplier
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Grim Flayer
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Hooting Mandrills
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Jace, Cunning Castaway
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Spells 19
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Opt
2 Serum Visions
1 Despise
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Fatal Push
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Bitterblossom
1 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Collective Brutality
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Pulse of Murasa
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damping Sphere
Went 4-1 in the league.
EDIT: Also, gives us a HUGE answer to Tron, which is very exciting!
UWRUWR MidrangeUWR
BUGSultai MidrangeBUG
BUGRTraverse MidrangeBUGR (currently brewing)
BUT, in what shell though? Mid-range with goyfs? Or, although i am a little skeptical of, control?(feels like Sultai is still lacking good board wipe and some inevitability like celestial colonnade in the control build). I believe Sultai is now just missing ONE bonkers 3-4 mana game closing threat to ascend to tier 1 and we can hope that with more dimir and golgari cards to come, that might come into fruition sooner rather than later!
Jace and Azcanta.
Thought Scour plus Angler/Tasigur is also an edge. Goyf + Stubs is strong too. I worry that Trophy doesn't fully make up for Sultai's underlying and historic weaknesses, but I do think that Snap/Trophy on its own is a potent one-for-one removal strategy.
Trophy won't be a 4 of, but it's pretty good. It's going in my BUG list for sure, and my list can hold it's own well enough.