I think that Wall of Omens and Fatal Push could potentially shore that weakness and the deck already plays:
2x L.Helix, 3x PtE, 1x C.Brutality and 5x discard spells to begin with.
Made some changes to my Caw Blade build. Monastery Swiftspear wasn't impactful enough often enough so they've been cut. Anguished Unmaking has also been cut to put Collective Brutality back in the list. I want to find room for another Grim Lavamancer but not entirely sure what to cut. Batterskull is back in the lineup as well for some much needed lifelink and big body.
#Without Stoneforge it isn't exactly Caw-Blade though, if you can't tutor up the equipment and just hope to draw it naturally in a deck without any card draw or cantrips.
#I also don't think that cards like Squadron Hawk and Nether Traitor are good enough, they're just very weak and not mana efficient (as 1/1's for 2-mana).
#I'd also suggest going with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar over Ajani for this build as it works better with all the tokens and can present a fast clock on an empty board.
Another good option would be Sorin, Solemn Visitor which can also create/buff tokens and can gain a lot of life and swing the game.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is also a good option to buff a creature and I'd prefer it to an equipment piece.
Considering sleeving this deck up. Was looking for something a little different than the Nahiri, the Harbinger / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn style. Please critique and provide your thoughts!
Note: There are minor budget concerns here, hence the 1 Liliana of the Veil. I'm trying to trade into 1 or 2 more.
@xelerate I guess shave off some helixes unless you plan to use it for the reach. Swap disenchant with Wear/Tear and 3 LotV is what I use with that build. Good to see someone still using that. Also try to add 1 Crumble to Dust and 2 more Fulminator Mage in the sb for tron matchups
@xelerate I guess shave off some helixes unless you plan to use it for the reach. Swap disenchant with Wear/Tear and 3 LotV is what I use with that build. Good to see someone still using that. Also try to add 1 Crumble to Dust and 2 more Fulminator Mage in the sb for tron matchups
Thanks for the suggestions. As soon as I can get more Lili's I'll definitely be adding them.
Did a little play-testing online last night and boy does this list lose hard to control/combo. Is it wrong to run a few Eidolon of Rhetoric or something in the side?
Has there ever been much discussion over Mardu Charm? All three modes seem relevant to recent lists, especially the Bushwhacker stuff.
All three are severely over-costed for what they do. An Instant Flame Slash, a slightly better Raise the Alarm, and an instant Duress are not interesting for 3 mana. And they are all 1 for 1, except for a very narrow use of the second option. Compared to Kolaghan's Command, which is basically assured to be a 2 for one, it's simply not worth it.
#Without Stoneforge it isn't exactly Caw-Blade though, if you can't tutor up the equipment and just hope to draw it naturally in a deck without any card draw or cantrips.
#I also don't think that cards like Squadron Hawk and Nether Traitor are good enough, they're just very weak and not mana efficient (as 1/1's for 2-mana).
#I'd also suggest going with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar over Ajani for this build as it works better with all the tokens and can present a fast clock on an empty board.
Another good option would be Sorin, Solemn Visitor which can also create/buff tokens and can gain a lot of life and swing the game.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is also a good option to buff a creature and I'd prefer it to an equipment piece.
I used to run Mardu Tokens because BW Tokens provided the best midrange shell compared to what's been discussed here with Butcher/ Confidant / Pyromancer etc. However, there is really no reason to run red now because Fatal Push is more relevant than Lightning Bolt and that deck does not need Kolaghan's Command. Nahiri is kind of a nonbo with the token strategy (you could argue tokens make good blockers but then you're investing too much in an anthem strategy already). The sideboard does not improve significantly with red.
Has there ever been much discussion over Mardu Charm? All three modes seem relevant to recent lists, especially the Bushwhacker stuff.
All three are severely over-costed for what they do. An Instant Flame Slash, a slightly better Raise the Alarm, and an instant Duress are not interesting for 3 mana. And they are all 1 for 1, except for a very narrow use of the second option. Compared to Kolaghan's Command, which is basically assured to be a 2 for one, it's simply not worth it.
I don't think anyone is doubting that it is overcosted for each effect, the same way Collective Brutality is a terrible card in terms of its individual effects. But I literally have seen a build that's been successful at a big tournament jamming 4 Mardu Charm in the deck, although I can't find it at the moment. The card has potential because it does almost everything a control deck wants to do, similar to Esper Charm for Esper Control. Yes Kolaghan's Command is better in a vacuum but it is not really worth running outside of Snapcaster and Tarmogoyf/ Death Shadow decks.
The biggest strike against Mardu Charm at the moment is its Flame Sash ability. Right now dealing 4 damage is just not good enough: Tarmogoyf, Death's Shadow, half of Eldrazi creatures, Tasigur, Angler, etc. I highly doubt you can jam 4 of these in a deck but again, I wouldn't dismiss it too quickly as it has potential in a control build with Nahiri.
Mardu Charm isn't worth it, I'd argue that even Start // Finish is a better card (as blockers + removal).
Waht makes Collective Brutality good (and Kolaghan's Command) is that you get to choose multiple modes which you can't do with Mardu Charm whose every mode is very weak individually (especially for 3-mana).
I quit playing Mardu after playing against Lantern control a few times. Mardu straight up folds to that deck. What this deck is missing is a 2cmc catch all card like Abrupt Decay that you can main deck. Anguished costs too much.
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FREE MODERN. Break the Standard link.
I play Magic: the Gathering, not Magic: the Commandering.
Considering sleeving this deck up. Was looking for something a little different than the Nahiri, the Harbinger / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn style. Please critique and provide your thoughts!
Note: There are minor budget concerns here, hence the 1 Liliana of the Veil. I'm trying to trade into 1 or 2 more.
I am more on the midrange plan like yourself and I have been for months so I'd love to comment on this list. This is my current list, heavily tweaked after months of playing.
I used to have Abbot but a one time card advantage card that isn't a huge threat later wasn't cutting it for me. Also once Death's Shadow became a thing, Lightning Helix became an awful card. I used to have 3 but holding two Helix against a Death's Shadow and a Tasigur was just awful.
Other instants/sorceries and their count in your deck are how you feel against what you play locally so I can respond to any questions on differences between our lists. I have been down on Collective Brutality personally as I've found it very underwhelming lately.
I can say that the cycling cards from Amonkhet have been great and I would recommend at least trying them. I had issues with flooding so having the cycle land was a nice touch and having an additional fetch target has been nice. Also of note Sweltering Suns has given me outs I didn't have before which includes game ones against Storm who have Empty the Warrens.
Hazoret is best clock I've found for this deck as it's been great so far and is a stellar topdeck. Don' be afraid to cast her without her being a creature as most opponents who see that won't be scared of it so you get free shocks with bad draws you may have later. Other intricacies include Chandra+SFGM makes it super easy to buyback spells.
Sideboarding against combo has led me to two Surgical and two Lost Legacy. The speed which Lost Legacy can be played far outweights any downside the card is supposed to have. Using Lost Legacy on a Living End is totally worth any card draw they'd get. Same with Ad Nauseam, etc. I almost want three now. Note that my manabase can be Blood Moon proof so I am able to run it in the side which is also great against combo, among other things. I did read the Kabal suggestion and I am interested in trying that out. Also I can vouch that Rakdos Charm is nuts against a lot of decks and of course is incredibly versatile. I've stopped Living End/Storm/other Graveyard combos with it at instant speed and I've even killed opponents with the last mode, notably against RW Prison and an Elspeth who kept ticking up until they had nine tokens and I killed them.
I quit playing Mardu after playing against Lantern control a few times. Mardu straight up folds to that deck. What this deck is missing is a 2cmc catch all card like Abrupt Decay that you can main deck. Anguished costs too much.
How can they not ban card from that deck? I really don't know how anyone can have fun playing with or against that deck. And it's a solid tier two deck...
Anyway, what decks are good against that deck?
Well, what I was looking at it for, in the Bushwhacker builds is that it's a way to squeeze a little more damage into the deck (not that 2 1/1's is a giant threat), they play offense or defense like Lingering Souls, they're an "ok" curve with Bushwhackers, and it always has a live mode. 3 mana for a card that can be used to create a clock, or discard a card (draw step discard, just like Kolaghan's), or kill a creature isn't that bad. It would basically be taking the role of my lone Orzhov Charm.
Tron, Burn, Storm, Jund, often Abzan, and sometimes Infect can be pretty difficult matchups for Lantern. Anything with an early Chalice can be difficult as well. Oh, and the mirror for obvious reasons.
Basically most of Tier 1. They're not impossible for Lantern to beat, but the redundancy and/or speed of those decks can be problematic for it if it can't answer what they're doing fast enough.
Honestly, the only reason it did as well as it did, imo, back in the day was that twin made the format favorable for it.
2x L.Helix, 3x PtE, 1x C.Brutality and 5x discard spells to begin with.
2 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
2 Canyon Slough
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Inspiring Vantage
2 Shambling Vents
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Nether Traitor
3 Butcher of the Horde
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
2 Bitterblossom
1 Collective Brutality
1 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Batterskull
Man what I'd give for Stoneforge Mystic to be legal again.
#I also don't think that cards like Squadron Hawk and Nether Traitor are good enough, they're just very weak and not mana efficient (as 1/1's for 2-mana).
Even Young Pyromancer (or Monastery Mentor) would be better despite being very easy to remove and Brimaz, King of Oreskos is beefier but slower at making tokens.
#Other token generators also seem more efficient, like the new Start // Finish which can create tokens and act as removal later or other cards like Midnight Haunting/Spectral Procession/Timely Reinforcements
(even Hidden Stockpile can be playable here with more fetches to trigger revolt reliably).
#I'd also suggest going with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar over Ajani for this build as it works better with all the tokens and can present a fast clock on an empty board.
Another good option would be Sorin, Solemn Visitor which can also create/buff tokens and can gain a lot of life and swing the game.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is also a good option to buff a creature and I'd prefer it to an equipment piece.
Considering sleeving this deck up. Was looking for something a little different than the Nahiri, the Harbinger / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn style. Please critique and provide your thoughts!
Note: There are minor budget concerns here, hence the 1 Liliana of the Veil. I'm trying to trade into 1 or 2 more.
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Dark Confidant
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Spells
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
3 Lightning Helix
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Arid Mesa
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Disenchant
1 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Stony Silence
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Crackling Doom
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Damnation
U Merfolk
UBR Delver
Thanks for the suggestions. As soon as I can get more Lili's I'll definitely be adding them.
Did a little play-testing online last night and boy does this list lose hard to control/combo. Is it wrong to run a few Eidolon of Rhetoric or something in the side?
U Merfolk
UBR Delver
Played a couple against UW control and lost a set against Ad Nauseam.
U Merfolk
UBR Delver
All three are severely over-costed for what they do. An Instant Flame Slash, a slightly better Raise the Alarm, and an instant Duress are not interesting for 3 mana. And they are all 1 for 1, except for a very narrow use of the second option. Compared to Kolaghan's Command, which is basically assured to be a 2 for one, it's simply not worth it.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
I used to run Mardu Tokens because BW Tokens provided the best midrange shell compared to what's been discussed here with Butcher/ Confidant / Pyromancer etc. However, there is really no reason to run red now because Fatal Push is more relevant than Lightning Bolt and that deck does not need Kolaghan's Command. Nahiri is kind of a nonbo with the token strategy (you could argue tokens make good blockers but then you're investing too much in an anthem strategy already). The sideboard does not improve significantly with red.
I don't think anyone is doubting that it is overcosted for each effect, the same way Collective Brutality is a terrible card in terms of its individual effects. But I literally have seen a build that's been successful at a big tournament jamming 4 Mardu Charm in the deck, although I can't find it at the moment. The card has potential because it does almost everything a control deck wants to do, similar to Esper Charm for Esper Control. Yes Kolaghan's Command is better in a vacuum but it is not really worth running outside of Snapcaster and Tarmogoyf/ Death Shadow decks.
The biggest strike against Mardu Charm at the moment is its Flame Sash ability. Right now dealing 4 damage is just not good enough: Tarmogoyf, Death's Shadow, half of Eldrazi creatures, Tasigur, Angler, etc. I highly doubt you can jam 4 of these in a deck but again, I wouldn't dismiss it too quickly as it has potential in a control build with Nahiri.
Waht makes Collective Brutality good (and Kolaghan's Command) is that you get to choose multiple modes which you can't do with Mardu Charm whose every mode is very weak individually (especially for 3-mana).
If I pay 3-mana for a removal spell I expect something on the level of Anguished Unmaking (or Maelstrom Pulse).
I play Magic: the Gathering, not Magic: the Commandering.
I am more on the midrange plan like yourself and I have been for months so I'd love to comment on this list. This is my current list, heavily tweaked after months of playing.
4 Dark Confidant
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Soulfire Grand Master
Instant
2 Fatal Push
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Terminate
Sorcery
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sweltering Suns
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
2 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canyon Slough
1 Godless Shrine
2 Marsh Flats
1 Needle Spires
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Blood Moon
1 Crackling Doom
2 Damnation
2 Lost Legacy
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear
I used to have Abbot but a one time card advantage card that isn't a huge threat later wasn't cutting it for me. Also once Death's Shadow became a thing, Lightning Helix became an awful card. I used to have 3 but holding two Helix against a Death's Shadow and a Tasigur was just awful.
Other instants/sorceries and their count in your deck are how you feel against what you play locally so I can respond to any questions on differences between our lists. I have been down on Collective Brutality personally as I've found it very underwhelming lately.
I can say that the cycling cards from Amonkhet have been great and I would recommend at least trying them. I had issues with flooding so having the cycle land was a nice touch and having an additional fetch target has been nice. Also of note Sweltering Suns has given me outs I didn't have before which includes game ones against Storm who have Empty the Warrens.
Hazoret is best clock I've found for this deck as it's been great so far and is a stellar topdeck. Don' be afraid to cast her without her being a creature as most opponents who see that won't be scared of it so you get free shocks with bad draws you may have later. Other intricacies include Chandra+SFGM makes it super easy to buyback spells.
Sideboarding against combo has led me to two Surgical and two Lost Legacy. The speed which Lost Legacy can be played far outweights any downside the card is supposed to have. Using Lost Legacy on a Living End is totally worth any card draw they'd get. Same with Ad Nauseam, etc. I almost want three now. Note that my manabase can be Blood Moon proof so I am able to run it in the side which is also great against combo, among other things. I did read the Kabal suggestion and I am interested in trying that out. Also I can vouch that Rakdos Charm is nuts against a lot of decks and of course is incredibly versatile. I've stopped Living End/Storm/other Graveyard combos with it at instant speed and I've even killed opponents with the last mode, notably against RW Prison and an Elspeth who kept ticking up until they had nine tokens and I killed them.
I've kept a small changelog of my changes over time here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-03-16-gal-mardu/
Cards are always in flux for me so don't think I'm not equally open to suggestions.
PS Rabblemaster is awesome, never cutting it.
How can they not ban card from that deck? I really don't know how anyone can have fun playing with or against that deck. And it's a solid tier two deck...
Anyway, what decks are good against that deck?
Well, what I was looking at it for, in the Bushwhacker builds is that it's a way to squeeze a little more damage into the deck (not that 2 1/1's is a giant threat), they play offense or defense like Lingering Souls, they're an "ok" curve with Bushwhackers, and it always has a live mode. 3 mana for a card that can be used to create a clock, or discard a card (draw step discard, just like Kolaghan's), or kill a creature isn't that bad. It would basically be taking the role of my lone Orzhov Charm.
Tron, Burn, Storm, Jund, often Abzan, and sometimes Infect can be pretty difficult matchups for Lantern. Anything with an early Chalice can be difficult as well. Oh, and the mirror for obvious reasons.
Basically most of Tier 1. They're not impossible for Lantern to beat, but the redundancy and/or speed of those decks can be problematic for it if it can't answer what they're doing fast enough.
Honestly, the only reason it did as well as it did, imo, back in the day was that twin made the format favorable for it.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW