MTG Salvation

I think Thundermaw is a decent card, but overall the best card for the mirror which also has multi purpose is Hazoret.

Is there any way around needing Engineered Explosives? The pricetag of that one card is still a big thorn in my side - the singleton LotV I was able to cash in most of a A25 box I won for the value trade, but shelling out $180 for EEs is a rough bullet to bite on.

How important is it, and is there anything that could work as an alternative?

The closest alternative to Engineered Explosives is Ratchet Bomb, but it is probably too slow in several matchup (mainly boggles).

I'd love to see which decks the guys from Sao Paulo Top8 had to play against...

Quote from Algernone25 »

Is there any way around needing Engineered Explosives? The pricetag of that one card is still a big thorn in my side - the singleton LotV I was able to cash in most of a A25 box I won for the value trade, but shelling out $180 for EEs is a rough bullet to bite on.

How important is it, and is there anything that could work as an alternative?

It depends what you are expecting to face. If you see lots of Bogles, then try to play Bridges/Crackling Dooms instead. If you see lots of Humans and creature based decks, Anger could work.

I think you cannot replace EE with a similar versatile card. You need to metagame and sacrifice some flexibility by running more specific cards.

@Paradox Omega: great job with the video and thank you for posting! Im looking forward to seeing more of your content.

I've been seeing more lists running helix in the main or the board. Including selfiesek who plays on modo a lot with the deck. He took out 2 brutality for it. I like helix especially with basic plains in the deck now. How do you guys feel about it. And I've been seeing nahiri a little bit too.

Quote from Jgard87 »

I've been seeing more lists running helix in the main or the board. Including selfiesek who plays on modo a lot with the deck. He took out 2 brutality for it. I like helix especially with basic plains in the deck now. How do you guys feel about it. And I've been seeing nahiri a little bit too.

Well, its not something new, Mardu Pyromancer had originally Helixes instead of CBs main, since Selfeisek (the person who created the deck) always ran it, it didn't change at all, so selfeisek still runs them, its nothing new from him.

I personally like the option, but am not sure whether we want that more dedication to white. But after all Selfeisek keeps doing well with his version, which he never really changed (despite cutting the Swiftspears, which was just weird to include in the first place)

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Well, its not something new, Mardu Pyromancer had originally Helixes instead of CBs main, since Selfeisek (the person who created the deck) always ran it, it didn't change at all, so selfeisek still runs them, its nothing new from him.

I personally like the option, but am not sure whether we want that more dedication to white. But after all Selfeisek keeps doing well with his version, which he never really changed (despite cutting the Swiftspears, which was just weird to include in the first place)

It's probably a meta decision more than anything. Sometimes you need a little extra oomph to the face or an extra Bolt removal to get the game done. The Lightning Helix version probably is a tad more aggressive depending on the #s, whereas Manamorphose lets us be a bit grindier. Against Humans, D&T, or other small creature decks it can be good. Meanwhile Goyf, Hollow One, Angler, Shadow, etc. that Helix won't be all that helpful where card draw + a free chump might buy you enough extra time.

Its actually not a meta decision. If you look at selfeiseks league history you will se he always ran Helixes. Since the beginning. And pretty much nobody else does this. So this is not a new tech or anything, its just selfeisek doing his own thing. Not to say its a bad decision, but its interesting that he seems to be only one running this exact version and still doing well with it.

Quote from Ayiluss »

There are lists of other people playing Lightning Helix besides Selfeisek but he's indeed the only one to do this since the beginning. It's definitely an interesting approach but I'm not sure how good it is. Lightning Helix definitely helps against more aggressive decks like Humans or Burn but it doesn't hit bigger threats and I'm more concerned with these.

Helix is in the slot that is normally taken up by Collective Brutality, which is even worse at dealing with big threats.

On balance, I think that Brutality is better due to a less prohibitive casting cost and the ability to remove threatening instants and sorceries, however in a situation where mana is not an issue against a creature based deck Helix is stronger.

I also like CB instead of helix. I'd love helix in addition to CB against certain decks but not instead of CB.

Selfeisek also plays a second Sacred Foundry over the second Blood Crypt to help cast Helix. There's also three Blood Moon in the 75. Seems like the mana is getting stretched too far to accommodate all of it.

Quote from Paradox Omega »

Hey folks, I just wanted to let you all know I recently recorded some MTGO gameplay videos with Mardu Pyromancer. I recorded 4 matches that you can find here: Mardu Pyromancer Mini-Series (Deck Tech + Matches).

This isn't the first time I've recorded with it, so if you're interested in more content, you can check out my channel for many more videos. I can't claim to be anything special when it comes to piloting the deck, but if you're new to the deck and want to see someone else run through a bunch of matches and trying different things, then my videos may be helpful.

For those who are wondering if Liliana of the Veil is worth it, after testing 8 or so matches with her in the main, she has overperformed. I don't think I'm playing less than 1 of her moving forward, but I really have been enjoying her as a 2-of. I'm also not too keen on the basic Plains, but can understand why some run it. Lastly, I'm on 0 Manamorphose, but am interested in starting to experiment with 1 in the maindeck. Anyways, if you watch the videos, I appreciate it! Cheers

Thanks for the great video! Enjoyed it and will watch the other mardu video's soon. I play 3 manamorphose (I did cut a land and 2 Blood Moons). Works pretty well for me!

I'm glad Liliana of the Veil performmed so well for you. I'm also playing 2 of her and she's really fantastic in this deck. In my opinion: Liliana of the Veil > Blood Moon. When Blood Moon is good, it's game winning good. But when it's bad, it's a dead card. Liliana is somewhere in the middle. And therefore, in my opinion, Blood Moon is the perfect sideboard material. I play 2 LotV mainboard, 2 Blood Moons sideboard.

Moreover, I play magic for fun. Liliana of the Veil is so much more interactive than Blood Moon

While I agree LoTV is great, Blood Moon is at its best in the maindeck in my mind. Especially if you think about the big mana matchup. Tron doesn't have Natures Claim in game 1, so BM is a lot stronger in that matchup. BM is tougher to remove in general in game 1. Also, if you are on the draw and you opponent doesn't know what you are playing yet, BM can also get decks which are maybe not that suceptible to BM since they might won't play around BM (by fetching for basics). Especially that surprise factor in the maindeck can really get people. THerefore, if I am running BM, I want it maindeck.

Also in my mind, when you look at the top decks of the format, there is not really a deck BM is completely dead against at least, against affinity you can shut down manlands, against burn you can shut down white, against Hollow One/Mardu you can also shut them off white or black. Against KCI you can turn off Inventors Fair. So the downside of having BM main is not that low in my mind. At least not too low to not run BM maindeck due to the way higher upside.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Also in my mind, when you look at the top decks of the format, there is not really a deck BM is completely dead against at least, against affinity you can shut down manlands, against burn you can shut down white, against Hollow One/Mardu you can also shut them off white or black. Against KCI you can turn off Inventors Fair. So the downside of having BM main is not that low in my mind. At least not too low to not run BM maindeck due to the way higher upside.

I do want to point out, though, that against several of these decks (Affinity, Burn, and KCI especially) slamming a turn 3 blood moon can very much be a recipe for dying on turn 4. Yes it's a powerful card, but in matchups where we always need to hold up mana for removal (or tap out for removal as the case may be) blood moon loses a lot of its bite. I'd still keep it against KCI but I'm immediately cutting it every time againt burn - though that's also because of all the white cards I bring in that can't be cast under blood moon (Many more burn decks locally play Rest in Peace as their hate enchantment of choice over Stony Silence which warrants boarding in Wear//Tear. I also need white for Kambal.

Quote from Algernone25 »

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Also in my mind, when you look at the top decks of the format, there is not really a deck BM is completely dead against at least, against affinity you can shut down manlands, against burn you can shut down white, against Hollow One/Mardu you can also shut them off white or black. Against KCI you can turn off Inventors Fair. So the downside of having BM main is not that low in my mind. At least not too low to not run BM maindeck due to the way higher upside.

I do want to point out, though, that against several of these decks (Affinity, Burn, and KCI especially) slamming a turn 3 blood moon can very much be a recipe for dying on turn 4. Yes it's a powerful card, but in matchups where we always need to hold up mana for removal (or tap out for removal as the case may be) blood moon loses a lot of its bite. I'd still keep it against KCI but I'm immediately cutting it every time againt burn - though that's also because of all the white cards I bring in that can't be cast under blood moon (Many more burn decks locally play Rest in Peace as their hate enchantment of choice over Stony Silence which warrants boarding in Wear//Tear. I also need white for Kambal.

Slamming blood moon turn 3 is almost always correct against burn. They tend to deploy their cheaper spells and creatures during the first two turns, so you have a good chance of stranding some number of Lightning Helix/ Boros Charm/ Atarka's Command in hand, which can really pump the breaks on their momentum. Worth noting that their only answer to moon (Destructive Revelry) cannot be cast under moon because they run no non-mountain basics.

Any tips or tricks for the mirror? Specifically are there any "trump" sideboard cards you've liked or been testing?
The obvious one I guess would be Leyline of the Void, but in theory I think Hazoret should be pretty good. I'm also considering Orzhov Pontiff (or Zealous Persecution) to win the tokens mirror, but maybe the white splash is a little difficult?

Quote from hakkaimtg »

Any tips or tricks for the mirror? Specifically are there any "trump" sideboard cards you've liked or been testing?
The obvious one I guess would be Leyline of the Void, but in theory I think Hazoret should be pretty good. I'm also considering Orzhov Pontiff (or Zealous Persecution) to win the tokens mirror, but maybe the white splash is a little difficult?

Hazoret, Bedlam Reveler, Souls, YP, Leyline, Spellbomb, Surgical pretty much in that order. Hazoret is unbeatable if no CB is involved. And above all of course there is Looting to find those cards.

Liliana, the Last Hope is commonly brought up as one of the better mirror breakers (that's still good in a lot of other matchups) but I haven't gotten to play with her yet. I imagine her +1 is good at handling Pyro / Elementals / Spirits if you aren't too far behind on board, her -2 helps recur your threats, and her ultimate wins through a board stall, no?

Regarding graveyard hate in the mirror, I agree that Leyline and Spellbomb are easily the best options, but how would you prioritize Rakdos Charm vs Surgical?

• Surgical grabbing Souls and Faithless looting are at least card-neutral, which is good. Is Extracting a Reveler worth the immediate card disadvantage?
• Surgical is "free" so you can get an earlier tempo advantage on Elemental production or Reveler cost-reduction
• However, Extraction doesn't clear the whole graveyard, so you aren't really slowing their Revelers down that much
• Searching hand & library gives you extra information

• Rakdos Charm costs BR upfront so there's a higher tempo cost to deploying it
• It does wipe the whole graveyard
• Its damage mode could also potentially win the game if your opponent has a wider board state

I haven't played with both enough to tell which is better here. Thoughts?