I play them in a fun mardu burn deck but it's because the manabase is a lot different and focus around red and white with black as a splash.
In this deck I find it clunky with only 2 white sources and if you play blood moon and only secred foundry without a plain you just maybe can't cast it. Too risky for the help it could bring without a mana base changes at least for me.
2-0 vs Traverse Shadow - Token blockers lined up vs threats very well, finished him off with burn and flyers.
0-2 vs Storm - Mulled down to 4 G1 and got run over. Kept a disruptive hand G2 but looted into Pyro in the mid game and was one turn too slow on my clock. Didn't see any of my SB cards either game. /shrug
2-0 vs G Tron - No Blood Moons in sight but hit T1 discard into T2 Pyro both games. G1 he ended with two World Breakers on board but I kept slipping Elementals and burn past until he died. G2 he drew into two Mines and two Towers but I kept him off of tutoring up the Power Plant. Got super lucky.
2-0 vs Naya Midrange Pile - He outpaced my removal with a huge army of Knights, Trackers, Courser, BBE, Voice, etc and I blocked him with Elemental tokens for 40 minutes while swinging in the air and burning him out. Kessig Wolf Run threatened the chump-block plan but Blood Moon covered it. G2 I drew into Ensnaring Bridge which would've locked up the game but he topdecked Qasali Pridemage next turn XD... So I just stuck to the block and chip plan to take the game.
Overall I was pretty happy with the deck's performance for my first night playing it at an event. Stealing a win vs Tron was the icing on the cake.
A common theme in my matches that I was often blocking some huge threats with Pyro tokens while trying to close the game with reach. Lightning Helix sounds interesting as additional reach, and I figure that I might as well get more value out of the Plains that I was running (still mostly happy with this btw, casting both halves of Souls through BM came up a few times during the night). I'm not sure what I'd cut, though, maybe the 2nd Dreadbore and 3rd MB Brutality.
I feel that if you're playing a mainboard Plains, Helix is reasonable... but even in that case, Collective Brutality is just more flexible and better against decks that want to burn you out anyway. Brutality is a hell of a card - the fact that it's a modal card to begin with and you can use multiple modes by binning cards that wouldn't be excellent in a given situation gives it so much variability and usefulness that I'd probably never run Helix over it.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
What do you guys think of Lightning Helix in this deck? I've seen several lists playing 2 copies of it recently. It helps us against more aggressive decks like Humans and Burn to stabilize but these kind of decks are already good matchups (except Burn which is even or slightly unfavored for us). It makes our matchup against control and big mana decks worse (you could play more copies of Dreadbore instead for example) though. It's probably not worth it but I thought I'd ask since I've seen plenty decks playing it lately.
I honestly don't see a good reason to run it, as you said our Big Mana matchup gets worse and I strongly believe that this matchup is the deck's biggest problem overall. I think Burn is not an issue at all. I am also a big fan of having an edge against control, if you skimp on it too much you can certainly loose to that matchup as well. I would really try to beat Big Mana and Control more consistantly than having a better Burn matchup or more percent against Humans, which is I think decent enough already.
I don't see a good reason to do that. We want answers to Azcanta, Leyline of the Void, Detention Sphere, RIP, any enchantment from Bogles and any other random enchantment that could come up.
We are the nightmare matchup for affinity itself. Against Tron we have limited time to stick a Stony Silence when we need to stick a clock backed up with BM. And KCI as a deck is not that oppressive at the moment that would justify Stony Silence. Kambal, Wear // Tear, Spellbomb, Surgical are all pretty effecitve against the deck already. So I think you would significantly weaken the SB if you replace Wear//Tear with Silence.
What do you guys think of Lightning Helix in this deck? I've seen several lists playing 2 copies of it recently. It helps us against more aggressive decks like Humans and Burn to stabilize but these kind of decks are already good matchups (except Burn which is even or slightly unfavored for us). It makes our matchup against control and big mana decks worse (you could play more copies of Dreadbore instead for example) though. It's probably not worth it but I thought I'd ask since I've seen plenty decks playing it lately.
I'd think Manamorphose is better than lightning helix, and I'm even on edge about Manamorphose. Collective Brutality is the "life gain" card. Plus it has the added benefits of discarding for additional effects. Helix is okay. It just doesn't seem to be needed.
You're probably right about that and given the fact that I don't like Manamorphose it's better to play something else. I'll stick with LtLH for now although I'm not the biggest fan of MD planeswalkers in Mardu but I haven't find anything better so far.
I have the same feeling as yours about MD planeswalker but after changing my MD a bit these days to try something different after watching Reid video, seeing some lists that top8 recent tournaments I tried again MD lili of the veil in place of 3rd blood moon and 3rd brutality (as I begin to find that 3 moon is a bit too much but maybe it's because of my meta and 3rd brutality goes in SB) and it feels not that bad this time.
Sometimes even great as with our discard she helps to destroy completly opponents hand and helps against low number big creatures decks (against hollow one she helped me with a Kcommand to clean a board with flameblade+hollow one+angler and offered the win after opponent was out of gas because every topdeck he made was discarded or killed). I pretty like her flexibility these days. Maybe it will change in the futur but for now I'm proud of her
Because I had nothing else built and had already taken the time off, I went to a modern SCG IQ today. Somehow finished 3-2, which is amazingly better than I was expecting
Round 1: vs Jund (L 0-2)
He wins the dieroll and thoughtseizes, seeing me with 2 land, faithless looting, pyro, push, souls, reveler. He takes looting, I never find a third land until he's stripped out everything else. Game 2 he gets stuck on three lands, but even after I clear his board, he gets a 4th land, drops bloodbraid, cascades into a 6/7 goyf, and I can't find my last terminate in the top 2 cards. This was exaclty how I've felt all my previous matches go - our opponent plays bigger threats that cost less, while having all the same burn and discard we do.
Round 2: vs Mono-Black Pile (W 2-0)
Honestly I should not have won this game. He landed a gifted aetherborn and two vampire nighthawk early that ignore my collective brutality and fatal push opening, the only reason I did win was he followed it all up with an invocation No Mercy. Game 2 he also loads up, but I manage to draw enough removal for the tokens to come in while he floods out.
Round 3: vs Bogles (W 2-1)
Game 1 he goes turn 1 gladecover scout, turn 2 double hyena umbra, turn 3 etheral armor daybreak coronet, turn 4 rancor. Not a damn thing I can do about it. Game 2 on the play I manage to get a turn 1 thoughtseize, finding triple windswept heath, kor spiritdancer, ethereal armor, rancor, and path. I take dancer hoping he bricks on creatures long enough to make a board. Thankfully he does. Game 3 he very aggressively plays around Liliana of the veil, despite having never seen it in the first two games. Thankfully YP goes entirely unmolested in this matchup, and I make enough tokens to trade with all but 1 of his dudes, lily comes down and sweeps away that one, and he scoops.
Round 4: vs Dredgevine (W 2-1)
Another game 1 where he draws the nuts. Turn 1 looting, discard double vengevine, turn 2 neonate memnite to bring back the vines and smash for 8, turn 3 bloodghast for lethal. Game 2 is much more sedate as he never finds his discard outlets, and a very early reveler shuts him out. Game 3 he does the same looting pitching vengevine, but this time I have surgical extraction to rip it out with the trigger on the stack. I get another early reveler (turn 5) and lignering souls puts on the last points of damage.
Round 5: vs Burn (L 0-2)
Game 1 he gets triple eidolon. Nothing more needs to be said. Game 2 I'm trying to rush to a 3-mana reveler after wiping his board, he tops rest in peace the turn before I could cast it. I flood for 6 turns and he draws enough bolts to finish.
My Thoughts:
Blood moon, once again, never made any impact whatsoever, and I boarded it out in 3 of the five matches (kept it in against jund and dredge, never drew it in those games.)
The extra pushes felt really good even though I didn't see 3 in any one game. Might be switchable with something else.
Nihil spellbomb isn't GREAT compared to leyline, but it's good enough.
Molten rain was never sided in, but that's for a few particulat matchups and that's it.
Any other comments, please ask.
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Well those matchups you stated don't really are the best ones when we talk about BM. Indeed BM is awful in every match there, except for maybe Bogles, but ultimately BM is not the best here either.
I would not keep BM against a midrange deck, only against 3 colour control decks since Azcanta is too powerful.
Well those matchups you stated don't really are the best ones when we talk about BM. Indeed BM is awful in every match there, except for maybe Bogles, but ultimately BM is not the best here either.
I would not keep BM against a midrange deck, only against 3 colour control decks since Azcanta is too powerful.
That's a fair assessment now that I've had a nap to sort things out. I think the reason I kept it against jund was he never saw a single basic or fetchland game 1, and maybe if I get lucky I can just lock him out. Most of the time I was bringing in the other 2 fatal push and anger of the gods, only twice did wear//tear come in (bogles and burn), only once did kambal come in (burn), and only once did surgical come in (dredge). I also suppose there is some value in having a card you can discard with no real consequences game 1.
The field, surprisingly enough, had a TON of storm decks - of the 32 players there I want to say 5 or 6 were on storm. Never faced it though I expect the matchup is really good. We have plenty of discard to keep them from going critical, ways to mess with their graveyard if not remove it entirely, and they have relatively few ways to deal with YP tokens (and exactly one way to deal with a resolved reveler - bounce it.) I'm not afraid to admit that part of my board being the way it is comes from not wanting to spend $150 on Engineered explosives and another $150 on leyline of the void. I would probably find ways to buy or borrow them for a bigger event, but until then the last two pushes and the three bombs get there.
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You're probably right about that and given the fact that I don't like Manamorphose it's better to play something else. I'll stick with LtLH for now although I'm not the biggest fan of MD planeswalkers in Mardu but I haven't find anything better so far.
I have the same feeling as yours about MD planeswalker but after changing my MD a bit these days to try something different after watching Reid video, seeing some lists that top8 recent tournaments I tried again MD lili of the veil in place of 3rd blood moon and 3rd brutality (as I begin to find that 3 moon is a bit too much but maybe it's because of my meta and 3rd brutality goes in SB) and it feels not that bad this time.
Sometimes even great as with our discard she helps to destroy completly opponents hand and helps against low number big creatures decks (against hollow one she helped me with a Kcommand to clean a board with flameblade+hollow one+angler and offered the win after opponent was out of gas because every topdeck he made was discarded or killed). I pretty like her flexibility these days. Maybe it will change in the futur but for now I'm proud of her
I tried LtLH after playing some game without her (in the md) and she did some job. Managed to ultimate her against Hollow One which helped me to win the game. I prefer LtLH at the moment but perhaps I should give a try to LoTV. I admit that playing 1-2 planeswalkers doesn't feel so bad and sometimes it's really helpful although probably not needed. I had the same issue of 3x Blood Moon being a bit too much (most lists are moving back to 2) and 3x Collective Brutality in md feels a bit too much as well. I prefer Liliana over both of these at the moment.
One thing I have to say about Liliana is that I read it on Twitter and also listened Podcast of Gerry Thompson where he talked about Mardu and his GP Vegas. One of the key points I remembered was that he was very happy with MD LoTV and coming from such a pro as he is this definitely means something.
Unpopular opinion, it seems, but the planeswalkers MD seem entirely worth it. After watching the Reid Duke video, I became more convinced. His Liliana did work on the opponents' hands often time leaving them empty or with almost no answers. The constant pressure of discarding a card is impactful. Also, Liliana's -2 can force an opponent to sacrifice which means it gets around protection/indestructible effects. Last Hope provides her own card advantage. Her plus effect can ping creatures or reduce damage to protect her/when in a tight spot. I consider her ultimate to be sort of in line with Lingering Souls and Pyromancer tokens too. Either one is strong, but provides benefits in different metas.
After seeing them in action, I'm beginning to shift my previous train of thought. I have become more convinced they are almost entirely necessary.
That's a fair assessment now that I've had a nap to sort things out. I think the reason I kept it against jund was he never saw a single basic or fetchland game 1, and maybe if I get lucky I can just lock him out. Most of the time I was bringing in the other 2 fatal push and anger of the gods, only twice did wear//tear come in (bogles and burn), only once did kambal come in (burn), and only once did surgical come in (dredge). I also suppose there is some value in having a card you can discard with no real consequences game 1.
For which reason did you bring in Wear//Tear against Burn? I only could imagine hitting Eidolon, but since we are basically a mono removal deck this doesn't make much sense imo.
That's a fair assessment now that I've had a nap to sort things out. I think the reason I kept it against jund was he never saw a single basic or fetchland game 1, and maybe if I get lucky I can just lock him out. Most of the time I was bringing in the other 2 fatal push and anger of the gods, only twice did wear//tear come in (bogles and burn), only once did kambal come in (burn), and only once did surgical come in (dredge). I also suppose there is some value in having a card you can discard with no real consequences game 1.
For which reason did you bring in Wear//Tear against Burn? I only could imagine hitting Eidolon, but since we are basically a mono removal deck this doesn't make much sense imo.
wear//tear was in to countercall the rest in peace I knew he had in his board, hitting eidolon was incidental value. It was just bad luck on my part that he tops his second after I rip out the first turn 1. I brought in that, kambal and the other two pushes, cutting thoughtseize (paying life in this MU is terrible) blood moon (can't cast kambal through it) and dreadbore (no walkers and all his threats are already covered by bolt/brutality)
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That's a fair assessment now that I've had a nap to sort things out. I think the reason I kept it against jund was he never saw a single basic or fetchland game 1, and maybe if I get lucky I can just lock him out. Most of the time I was bringing in the other 2 fatal push and anger of the gods, only twice did wear//tear come in (bogles and burn), only once did kambal come in (burn), and only once did surgical come in (dredge). I also suppose there is some value in having a card you can discard with no real consequences game 1.
For which reason did you bring in Wear//Tear against Burn? I only could imagine hitting Eidolon, but since we are basically a mono removal deck this doesn't make much sense imo.
wear//tear was in to countercall the rest in peace I knew he had in his board, hitting eidolon was incidental value. It was just bad luck on my part that he tops his second after I rip out the first turn 1. I brought in that, kambal and the other two pushes, cutting thoughtseize (paying life in this MU is terrible) blood moon (can't cast kambal through it) and dreadbore (no walkers and all his threats are already covered by bolt/brutality)
Makes sense, if you know of RIP you can bring it in in that case, since taking out TS is top priority.
I also don't like the Godless Shrine, especially since all of our fetches can get basic swamps anyway and our fast lands produce black as well.
I admittedly don't like Liliana in the Mardu deck at all, since I don't want to be adding more three drops and I think the deck is just as good without her, but it could be a specific meta dependent thing.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I am thinking of putting together Mardu pyromancer, but I am not a very serious constructed player so I tend to mize on expensive lands and $50 planeswalkers. I play 90% limited but it's cool to have a modern deck around. I loved playing boros burn in standard with YP.
How bad is it to sub 2 Dragonskull Summit for 2 Blackcleave Cliffs? Is 10 fetches enough or do I need 12? (mizing 2 of mesa/flats, keeping the 8 cheap ones)
I am thinking of putting together Mardu pyromancer, but I am not a very serious constructed player so I tend to mize on expensive lands and $50 planeswalkers. I play 90% limited but it's cool to have a modern deck around. I loved playing boros burn in standard with YP.
How bad is it to sub 2 Dragonskull Summit for 2 Blackcleave Cliffs? Is 10 fetches enough or do I need 12? (mizing 2 of mesa/flats, keeping the 8 cheap ones)
Apologies for not reading 241 pages above this...
The liliana people are on the fence about, you can probably get away with not running it, and either running a 3rd push, a 3rd bloodmoon, or a 2nd dreadbore in its place. I splurged for one, but only one.
I never really considered using Dragonskull summit as a budget cliffs, I'd have to run some hands with it. Traditionally the budget fill in is 3rd blood crypt, 2nd sacred foundry, and one extra swamp and mountain.
10-12 fetches is way too many, the stock list plays 4 bloodstained mire and 4 marsh flats. Since the key point of our fetches is that they all get swamps, polluted delta's $19 price tag compared decently to the $39 of marsh flats.
If you're wanting to play this deck this way, you're also going to need replacements for the stock 3 leyline of the void and 2 engineered explosives in the sideboard. I had reasonable success with Nihil spellbomb as my GY hate of choice, and for a sweeper your best bet on the cheap would be Anger of the Gods.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I think there may be some potential. On one hand, it's amazing against tron because it shuts off the tronlands turn 1 (This is going to come up a lot, but it does stop the tron lands because they check for land's type, not the land's name. The easy way to prove this is that mine and tower refer to controlling an "Urza's Power-plant" with a hyphen. The card name doesn't have the hyphen, the typeline does.) Since it comes down turn 1, it actaully gives us enough time to otherwise mess with their ability to just turn the corner at 6 mana. It also has some relevance against several other decks - it stops inkmoth nexus, it stops celestial colonnade, it stops Azcanta, it stops valakut, it stops gavony township. It also doesn't gum up our own mana like BM does.
On the flip side, the decks that we use blood moon to lock out multiple lands instead of just needing to kill one land (read: humans) this doesn't work against. Jeskai can actually use it in this MU to shut off cavern of souls, but it's got no value for us in that. If there's tons of humans blood moon is better, but if they're all absent then alpine moon may be worth trying.
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In this deck I find it clunky with only 2 white sources and if you play blood moon and only secred foundry without a plain you just maybe can't cast it. Too risky for the help it could bring without a mana base changes at least for me.
Went 3-1 with this list:
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Bedlam Reveler
Instant (10)
3x Fatal Push
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Kolaghan's Command
Sorcery (20)
4x Faithless Looting
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
3x Collective Brutality
2x Dreadbore
4x Lingering Souls
2x Blood Moon
Land (20)
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Marsh Flats
2x Blood Crypt
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Plains
2x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Collective Brutality
3x Wear
1x Blood Moon
3x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2x Goblin Rabblemaster
0-2 vs Storm - Mulled down to 4 G1 and got run over. Kept a disruptive hand G2 but looted into Pyro in the mid game and was one turn too slow on my clock. Didn't see any of my SB cards either game. /shrug
2-0 vs G Tron - No Blood Moons in sight but hit T1 discard into T2 Pyro both games. G1 he ended with two World Breakers on board but I kept slipping Elementals and burn past until he died. G2 he drew into two Mines and two Towers but I kept him off of tutoring up the Power Plant. Got super lucky.
2-0 vs Naya Midrange Pile - He outpaced my removal with a huge army of Knights, Trackers, Courser, BBE, Voice, etc and I blocked him with Elemental tokens for 40 minutes while swinging in the air and burning him out. Kessig Wolf Run threatened the chump-block plan but Blood Moon covered it. G2 I drew into Ensnaring Bridge which would've locked up the game but he topdecked Qasali Pridemage next turn XD... So I just stuck to the block and chip plan to take the game.
Overall I was pretty happy with the deck's performance for my first night playing it at an event. Stealing a win vs Tron was the icing on the cake.
A common theme in my matches that I was often blocking some huge threats with Pyro tokens while trying to close the game with reach. Lightning Helix sounds interesting as additional reach, and I figure that I might as well get more value out of the Plains that I was running (still mostly happy with this btw, casting both halves of Souls through BM came up a few times during the night). I'm not sure what I'd cut, though, maybe the 2nd Dreadbore and 3rd MB Brutality.
I honestly don't see a good reason to run it, as you said our Big Mana matchup gets worse and I strongly believe that this matchup is the deck's biggest problem overall. I think Burn is not an issue at all. I am also a big fan of having an edge against control, if you skimp on it too much you can certainly loose to that matchup as well. I would really try to beat Big Mana and Control more consistantly than having a better Burn matchup or more percent against Humans, which is I think decent enough already.
We are the nightmare matchup for affinity itself. Against Tron we have limited time to stick a Stony Silence when we need to stick a clock backed up with BM. And KCI as a deck is not that oppressive at the moment that would justify Stony Silence. Kambal, Wear // Tear, Spellbomb, Surgical are all pretty effecitve against the deck already. So I think you would significantly weaken the SB if you replace Wear//Tear with Silence.
I'd think Manamorphose is better than lightning helix, and I'm even on edge about Manamorphose. Collective Brutality is the "life gain" card. Plus it has the added benefits of discarding for additional effects. Helix is okay. It just doesn't seem to be needed.
I have the same feeling as yours about MD planeswalker but after changing my MD a bit these days to try something different after watching Reid video, seeing some lists that top8 recent tournaments I tried again MD lili of the veil in place of 3rd blood moon and 3rd brutality (as I begin to find that 3 moon is a bit too much but maybe it's because of my meta and 3rd brutality goes in SB) and it feels not that bad this time.
Sometimes even great as with our discard she helps to destroy completly opponents hand and helps against low number big creatures decks (against hollow one she helped me with a Kcommand to clean a board with flameblade+hollow one+angler and offered the win after opponent was out of gas because every topdeck he made was discarded or killed). I pretty like her flexibility these days. Maybe it will change in the futur but for now I'm proud of her
Round 1: vs Jund (L 0-2)
He wins the dieroll and thoughtseizes, seeing me with 2 land, faithless looting, pyro, push, souls, reveler. He takes looting, I never find a third land until he's stripped out everything else. Game 2 he gets stuck on three lands, but even after I clear his board, he gets a 4th land, drops bloodbraid, cascades into a 6/7 goyf, and I can't find my last terminate in the top 2 cards. This was exaclty how I've felt all my previous matches go - our opponent plays bigger threats that cost less, while having all the same burn and discard we do.
Round 2: vs Mono-Black Pile (W 2-0)
Honestly I should not have won this game. He landed a gifted aetherborn and two vampire nighthawk early that ignore my collective brutality and fatal push opening, the only reason I did win was he followed it all up with an invocation No Mercy. Game 2 he also loads up, but I manage to draw enough removal for the tokens to come in while he floods out.
Round 3: vs Bogles (W 2-1)
Game 1 he goes turn 1 gladecover scout, turn 2 double hyena umbra, turn 3 etheral armor daybreak coronet, turn 4 rancor. Not a damn thing I can do about it. Game 2 on the play I manage to get a turn 1 thoughtseize, finding triple windswept heath, kor spiritdancer, ethereal armor, rancor, and path. I take dancer hoping he bricks on creatures long enough to make a board. Thankfully he does. Game 3 he very aggressively plays around Liliana of the veil, despite having never seen it in the first two games. Thankfully YP goes entirely unmolested in this matchup, and I make enough tokens to trade with all but 1 of his dudes, lily comes down and sweeps away that one, and he scoops.
Round 4: vs Dredgevine (W 2-1)
Another game 1 where he draws the nuts. Turn 1 looting, discard double vengevine, turn 2 neonate memnite to bring back the vines and smash for 8, turn 3 bloodghast for lethal. Game 2 is much more sedate as he never finds his discard outlets, and a very early reveler shuts him out. Game 3 he does the same looting pitching vengevine, but this time I have surgical extraction to rip it out with the trigger on the stack. I get another early reveler (turn 5) and lignering souls puts on the last points of damage.
Round 5: vs Burn (L 0-2)
Game 1 he gets triple eidolon. Nothing more needs to be said. Game 2 I'm trying to rush to a 3-mana reveler after wiping his board, he tops rest in peace the turn before I could cast it. I flood for 6 turns and he draws enough bolts to finish.
My Thoughts:
Blood moon, once again, never made any impact whatsoever, and I boarded it out in 3 of the five matches (kept it in against jund and dredge, never drew it in those games.)
The extra pushes felt really good even though I didn't see 3 in any one game. Might be switchable with something else.
Nihil spellbomb isn't GREAT compared to leyline, but it's good enough.
Molten rain was never sided in, but that's for a few particulat matchups and that's it.
Any other comments, please ask.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I would not keep BM against a midrange deck, only against 3 colour control decks since Azcanta is too powerful.
That's a fair assessment now that I've had a nap to sort things out. I think the reason I kept it against jund was he never saw a single basic or fetchland game 1, and maybe if I get lucky I can just lock him out. Most of the time I was bringing in the other 2 fatal push and anger of the gods, only twice did wear//tear come in (bogles and burn), only once did kambal come in (burn), and only once did surgical come in (dredge). I also suppose there is some value in having a card you can discard with no real consequences game 1.
The field, surprisingly enough, had a TON of storm decks - of the 32 players there I want to say 5 or 6 were on storm. Never faced it though I expect the matchup is really good. We have plenty of discard to keep them from going critical, ways to mess with their graveyard if not remove it entirely, and they have relatively few ways to deal with YP tokens (and exactly one way to deal with a resolved reveler - bounce it.) I'm not afraid to admit that part of my board being the way it is comes from not wanting to spend $150 on Engineered explosives and another $150 on leyline of the void. I would probably find ways to buy or borrow them for a bigger event, but until then the last two pushes and the three bombs get there.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Unpopular opinion, it seems, but the planeswalkers MD seem entirely worth it. After watching the Reid Duke video, I became more convinced. His Liliana did work on the opponents' hands often time leaving them empty or with almost no answers. The constant pressure of discarding a card is impactful. Also, Liliana's -2 can force an opponent to sacrifice which means it gets around protection/indestructible effects. Last Hope provides her own card advantage. Her plus effect can ping creatures or reduce damage to protect her/when in a tight spot. I consider her ultimate to be sort of in line with Lingering Souls and Pyromancer tokens too. Either one is strong, but provides benefits in different metas.
After seeing them in action, I'm beginning to shift my previous train of thought. I have become more convinced they are almost entirely necessary.
For which reason did you bring in Wear//Tear against Burn? I only could imagine hitting Eidolon, but since we are basically a mono removal deck this doesn't make much sense imo.
wear//tear was in to countercall the rest in peace I knew he had in his board, hitting eidolon was incidental value. It was just bad luck on my part that he tops his second after I rip out the first turn 1. I brought in that, kambal and the other two pushes, cutting thoughtseize (paying life in this MU is terrible) blood moon (can't cast kambal through it) and dreadbore (no walkers and all his threats are already covered by bolt/brutality)
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Makes sense, if you know of RIP you can bring it in in that case, since taking out TS is top priority.
I admittedly don't like Liliana in the Mardu deck at all, since I don't want to be adding more three drops and I think the deck is just as good without her, but it could be a specific meta dependent thing.
How bad is it to sub 2 Dragonskull Summit for 2 Blackcleave Cliffs? Is 10 fetches enough or do I need 12? (mizing 2 of mesa/flats, keeping the 8 cheap ones)
Apologies for not reading 241 pages above this...
The liliana people are on the fence about, you can probably get away with not running it, and either running a 3rd push, a 3rd bloodmoon, or a 2nd dreadbore in its place. I splurged for one, but only one.
I never really considered using Dragonskull summit as a budget cliffs, I'd have to run some hands with it. Traditionally the budget fill in is 3rd blood crypt, 2nd sacred foundry, and one extra swamp and mountain.
10-12 fetches is way too many, the stock list plays 4 bloodstained mire and 4 marsh flats. Since the key point of our fetches is that they all get swamps, polluted delta's $19 price tag compared decently to the $39 of marsh flats.
If you're wanting to play this deck this way, you're also going to need replacements for the stock 3 leyline of the void and 2 engineered explosives in the sideboard. I had reasonable success with Nihil spellbomb as my GY hate of choice, and for a sweeper your best bet on the cheap would be Anger of the Gods.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
On the flip side, the decks that we use blood moon to lock out multiple lands instead of just needing to kill one land (read: humans) this doesn't work against. Jeskai can actually use it in this MU to shut off cavern of souls, but it's got no value for us in that. If there's tons of humans blood moon is better, but if they're all absent then alpine moon may be worth trying.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP