Infect: i already knew what deck he was on, so i mulled a 7 with no interaction and kept a 6 with a bolt, a Chandra and some ramp. I bolted the first creature, did Chandra -3 on the second one, then killed him with Tracker and Shaman. Boarded in more removal (roast, dismember, anger), mulled again, kept 5 with a Dismember, then same as game 1 but with an Inferno Titan clearing the board then finishing him. Have to say he mulled to 6 both games too, and didn't probably find the best 6.
Spirits: i remember less about this, it involved a Blood Moon and some beasts in game 1, and a 7/7 Stormbreath Dragon in game 2. I drew some removal in both games, he didn't hit a critical mass of creatures and then my creatures were just bigger. Guess he also didn't get the most explosive Bant Spirits hands. After all, it takes some luck to win all the matches
Right now, i feel like i'm better off casting one of these instead.
Congrats on the good result. Glad to see another person using Glorybringer, I'm also using it because it's ability to get rid of a threat while dealing damage has been useful lately. Very few PTE users right now in my meta, so the pro white of Stormbreath is not as useful as it was before.
Was the Shaman able to hit your opponent? Or did you just use it for the counters / card draw ability? My testings with Shaman ended not so good, but seeing your list made me decide to try it out again.
Ok, fair enough. fight with Fire does kill the Hollow one and the zombie fish as well.
Flooding is an issue.. I've playtested a lot and this deck has a bad habit to draw lands midgame. So far my attempt to solve this is 2 lootings which works well. I've tried 3 lootings, but 3 is too many.. it felt like the deck is just trying to loot and not do anything else at 3, so went back to 2.
Interesting. I've been testing out Faithless Looting as well. I've been fascinated with Chancellor of the Tangle as of late, specifically in regards to whether or not it could be used in Ponza to help crap out a T1 Blood Moon without straying too far from the game plan or compromising too much in terms of overall efficacy. I've only started playing around with the idea very recently, so still trying to find the right balance, but here's what I'm currently trying out that's pertinent to what I'm trying to do:
First off, I'm definitely not advocating that anybody else try this out or even that it's effective; more so just a bored Ponza player with a penchant for Blood Moon and degeneracy. With that being said, constructive criticism and/or suggested are very much welcomed. The goal is to find a way to pop off a T1 moon without needing too many "unnecessary" cards dedicated to making it happen. This is why I'm intrigued by Chancellor and Looting; we have ramp, so Chancellor isn't completely worthless outside of our opening hand and looting helps during those times when it actually is worthless in addition to smoothing out potential mana floods/lack of threats/needless dorks/etc. I originally had all 4 Chancellors in the MB along with another copy of manamorphose, but I took them out and adjusted the mana base to include filter lands to help improve consistency/reduce redundancy. Lastly, the reason for Grim out of the SB is to essentially get some sort of additional value from looting.
As I mentioned, this ended up being more of a fun experiment, but I'm all ears to any suggestions/criticisms.
Take this with a grain of salt as it's more of my personal experience playing the deck. One game I looted it got a land and arbor elf, on the flashback it got 2 more land.. that would have been 4 dead draws if faithless looting was something else. Similar situations of looting saving me from dead draws have come up, although not as severe as that. Also sure that my opponents were not stacking my deck. With information acquired, 2 faithless have earned a permanent spot in the main. Although as have said already, tried 3 looting but with negative results.. 2 is the right number for my build.
Interesting with the Chancellor approach... although I feel that makes the deck more all-in and have less power in the mid game grind. What things did chancellor replace in your deck?
Congrats on the good result. Glad to see another person using Glorybringer, I'm also using it because it's ability to get rid of a threat while dealing damage has been useful lately. Very few PTE users right now in my meta, so the pro white of Stormbreath is not as useful as it was before.
Was the Shaman able to hit your opponent? Or did you just use it for the counters / card draw ability? My testings with Shaman ended not so good, but seeing your list made me decide to try it out again.
Yep, Shaman hit some people and buffed himself and Trackers
Definitely i'd not run a playset of it, but as a one-of i think it's a viable option: it's a fast clock on an empty board, and still has relevant abilities if it can't attack
Thanks for that info on Shaman. Agreed in the shaman only being a one-of, might give him a try again if I find some wiggle room in the flex slots. Oh, and I've tested some Standard cards just for fun, Territorial Allosaurus and Ripjaw Raptor.. and the raptor is much better simply because modern is a bolt format. The "let goblin guide block a 5 toughness creature then bolt doesn't work well against raptor, it becomes a 4 for 1 = they lost 2 cards, the guide and the bolt while I draw 2 cards from the enrage. The times I kicked allosaurus are so few, maybe less than 20% kick rate on the times I played it. Right now, I'm pretty much testing things cmc 4 that can kill a Hollow One.. or at least be able to trade with a Hollow One.
Hmm, what do you need Thundermaw for? Plenty of spirits, lingering souls decks in your area?
Ripjaw has been performing well so far. It is bigger than a Hollow One, and many people in my meta are bolt users. Sure, sometimes it get's dreadbore'd, but still it has drawn me plenty of cards in some match ups because they have to block it.
Abrade... I found it very useful against hollow ones, removing mana dorks in elves, and hierarch in bant decks. However, it's almost a dead card against some match ups like GDS and UW control. Currently have 3 in the main, but could move them to the sideboard depending on what decks I encounter often.
Forgot to say, I tried going back to using acid moss, the reason is the forest fetching can possibly help minimize land flood. However, molten rain is still better.. because 3 cmc allows to blow up lands on turn 2 with the help of a dork. And blowing up a land sooner is the better thing to do.
I saw a Naya Ponza list in mtgtop8 and streaming on youtube and found the lists interesting because SB-plan with 3 RIPs and 2 Stonyies.
What do you think about that gameplan?
Can you share the link or the deck list?
White is always a good addition to the sideboard, rest in peace and stony silence are always better than relics and shatter effects. I would also love to add ajani vengeant in my main. My concern is about the consistency of the mana base, did you watch any problems on the stream?
Same here, ponza is not my main deck, I only play it sometimes to see the face of my friends when I land a turn two blood moon followed by a stone rain on the basic, this deck can be very annoying.
I will test this naya version and hope to improve it!
I've been playing deck for a year and half, about 2 fnm at week. I usually visit this forum to get new ideas and try them out. I have finally decided to participate.
I have tried many variants of the ponza but I usually play the next one: (The shaman I added recently, before I used 2 hazoret or 1 huntmaster)
We are usually between 12/18 players and most of the time I hover in the 4/5 positions and occasionally in the top 3. It all depends if I face Humans or Affinity Hardened Scales, they are usually bad pairing but sometimes my side love me. Where game there is usually tron, uw/jeskai control, humans, titanshift, hardened scales, bant company, grixis death shadow and grixis delver.
Now I preparing a Naya version, based on the youtuber of the recent post but more focused on the bloodbraid elf. I also consider that the grim lavamancer doesn't fit on the deck. I'm considering Thalia (big) on main, she can support delaying the opponent's on T2 until LD, BM or Ajani arrives.
Has anyone tried the Blood Moon/8-Rabblemaster build that popped-up in a few 5-0 Leagues? It's not Ponza, since there is no land destruction aspect, but it shares a ton of cards and appears to be faster at closing games.
@asmodeus666 That's it, sometimes the moon doesn't interrupt enough. I have my hope placed on Domri and the dual card
If everything arrives on time, I will be able to try the naya version the following week but I will have to put the birds of paradise to avoid the incosistence with the mana.
@pf_mtg Birds of paradise make our game plan more consistent but sometimes it's not enough to win. I've lost games after T2 moon and 3 LD consecutive for lack of agroo.
I decided to leave them aside for 3 main reasons:
1) When I used the side, I almost always took them out, very few times they were left inside.
2) Bloodbraid Elf to utopia sprawl/arbor elf/birds of paradise is too bad, removing them I've lowered that possibility a bit.
3) So much flooding and bad top deck.
Very few times I have had hand without a mana dork, I would consider that it has lowered a 5% or less the consistency of T2 LD or BM but I have increased in a 10/15% the pressure in game.
So I was on this deck a while ago and thought I'd take it for a spin at FNM tonight. I've made a few variations to the deck to play it a little more like a hatebears deck tuned to the current meta. Here is what I sleeved up.
I know theres a pretty big divergence from the standard build. Lightning bolts came out in favor of flame slash because of the rise in thing in the ice and the increaded prevalence of spirits. In too many matches the bolt just iant doing enough dmg. Which is also why I upped the shandra found and switched from inferno titan to glorybringer. It hurts to move the Scooze to the MD, but with dredge on the rise post creeping chill, and arclight Phoenix being everywhere, you need to have something MD to deal with it. Not to mention the value it has against a host of other decks. As im sure has been stated the BBE had to go, it has too many feels bad cascades in the current build. My biggest concern is the same concern I jad playimg this deck before and that's lack of closing speed and the ability to finish the game. Id really lile to be able to free another spot or maybe 2 for threats but I'm not sure what I'd cut to get there. I could maybe trim 1 molten rain but that's about it.
The SB mostly speaks for it self. I opt for 4 baloth. I just like the card a lot and think it's value is understated. Trinisphere count is a ticl higher, again because of arclight Phoenix decks. The only thing i am contemplation changing is not going with relic and opting for grafdiggers cage instead.
I also had a notion of going to a suite of more plainswalkes and running ensnaring bridge im the SB but that might be too jank.
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Spirits: i remember less about this, it involved a Blood Moon and some beasts in game 1, and a 7/7 Stormbreath Dragon in game 2. I drew some removal in both games, he didn't hit a critical mass of creatures and then my creatures were just bigger. Guess he also didn't get the most explosive Bant Spirits hands. After all, it takes some luck to win all the matches
WB BW Control
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Modern
UC UTron
RG Karn Metal Ponza
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Congrats on the good result. Glad to see another person using Glorybringer, I'm also using it because it's ability to get rid of a threat while dealing damage has been useful lately. Very few PTE users right now in my meta, so the pro white of Stormbreath is not as useful as it was before.
Was the Shaman able to hit your opponent? Or did you just use it for the counters / card draw ability? My testings with Shaman ended not so good, but seeing your list made me decide to try it out again.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Interesting. I've been testing out Faithless Looting as well. I've been fascinated with Chancellor of the Tangle as of late, specifically in regards to whether or not it could be used in Ponza to help crap out a T1 Blood Moon without straying too far from the game plan or compromising too much in terms of overall efficacy. I've only started playing around with the idea very recently, so still trying to find the right balance, but here's what I'm currently trying out that's pertinent to what I'm trying to do:
MB:
x3 Chancellor of the Tangle
x1 Simian Spirit Guide
x3 Faithless Looting
x2 Manamorphose
x3 Fire-Lit Thicket
SB:
x1 Simian Spirit Guide
x2 Grim Lavamancer
First off, I'm definitely not advocating that anybody else try this out or even that it's effective; more so just a bored Ponza player with a penchant for Blood Moon and degeneracy. With that being said, constructive criticism and/or suggested are very much welcomed. The goal is to find a way to pop off a T1 moon without needing too many "unnecessary" cards dedicated to making it happen. This is why I'm intrigued by Chancellor and Looting; we have ramp, so Chancellor isn't completely worthless outside of our opening hand and looting helps during those times when it actually is worthless in addition to smoothing out potential mana floods/lack of threats/needless dorks/etc. I originally had all 4 Chancellors in the MB along with another copy of manamorphose, but I took them out and adjusted the mana base to include filter lands to help improve consistency/reduce redundancy. Lastly, the reason for Grim out of the SB is to essentially get some sort of additional value from looting.
As I mentioned, this ended up being more of a fun experiment, but I'm all ears to any suggestions/criticisms.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Take this with a grain of salt as it's more of my personal experience playing the deck. One game I looted it got a land and arbor elf, on the flashback it got 2 more land.. that would have been 4 dead draws if faithless looting was something else. Similar situations of looting saving me from dead draws have come up, although not as severe as that. Also sure that my opponents were not stacking my deck. With information acquired, 2 faithless have earned a permanent spot in the main. Although as have said already, tried 3 looting but with negative results.. 2 is the right number for my build.
Interesting with the Chancellor approach... although I feel that makes the deck more all-in and have less power in the mid game grind. What things did chancellor replace in your deck?
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
4 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Ground
1 Mountain
7 Forest
3 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
4 Stone Rain
2 Molten Rain
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Inferno Titan
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
9 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Stone Rain
3 Blood Moon
3 Molten Rain
3 Abrade
2 Faithless Looting
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Glorybringer
1 Batterskull
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Yep, Shaman hit some people and buffed himself and Trackers
Definitely i'd not run a playset of it, but as a one-of i think it's a viable option: it's a fast clock on an empty board, and still has relevant abilities if it can't attack
WB BW Control
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Modern
UC UTron
RG Karn Metal Ponza
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Thanks for that info on Shaman. Agreed in the shaman only being a one-of, might give him a try again if I find some wiggle room in the flex slots. Oh, and I've tested some Standard cards just for fun, Territorial Allosaurus and Ripjaw Raptor.. and the raptor is much better simply because modern is a bolt format. The "let goblin guide block a 5 toughness creature then bolt doesn't work well against raptor, it becomes a 4 for 1 = they lost 2 cards, the guide and the bolt while I draw 2 cards from the enrage. The times I kicked allosaurus are so few, maybe less than 20% kick rate on the times I played it. Right now, I'm pretty much testing things cmc 4 that can kill a Hollow One.. or at least be able to trade with a Hollow One.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
For now, I just ordered a couple Abrades, a Ricochet Trap and especially a Thundermaw Hellkite, so i'll have more tools to test
WB BW Control
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Modern
UC UTron
RG Karn Metal Ponza
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Ripjaw has been performing well so far. It is bigger than a Hollow One, and many people in my meta are bolt users. Sure, sometimes it get's dreadbore'd, but still it has drawn me plenty of cards in some match ups because they have to block it.
Abrade... I found it very useful against hollow ones, removing mana dorks in elves, and hierarch in bant decks. However, it's almost a dead card against some match ups like GDS and UW control. Currently have 3 in the main, but could move them to the sideboard depending on what decks I encounter often.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Yeah, many Bant Spirits and some Mardu Pyromancer. Also, 5 hasty damage can kill most planeswalkers even after a +1/+2
WB BW Control
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Modern
UC UTron
RG Karn Metal Ponza
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Can you share the link or the deck list?
White is always a good addition to the sideboard, rest in peace and stony silence are always better than relics and shatter effects. I would also love to add ajani vengeant in my main. My concern is about the consistency of the mana base, did you watch any problems on the stream?
I also prefer the youtuber list. I like knight of autumn, very versatile and BBE can cast it, I had never thought about it. I'm not sure about grim lavamancer and experimental frenzy. I will try to include inferno titan or some dragon. I will also keep 2 pia and kiran nalaar, I love the interaction with clues.
I will test this naya version and hope to improve it!
I've been playing deck for a year and half, about 2 fnm at week. I usually visit this forum to get new ideas and try them out. I have finally decided to participate.
I have tried many variants of the ponza but I usually play the next one: (The shaman I added recently, before I used 2 hazoret or 1 huntmaster)
4 Arbor Elf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Shaman of the Great Hunt
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Inferno Titan
Enchantment
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Blood Moon
1 Courser of Kruphix
Land
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
8 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
2 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery
4 Stone Rain
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Molten Rain
1 Sweltering Suns
Planeswalker
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Mizzium Mortars
We are usually between 12/18 players and most of the time I hover in the 4/5 positions and occasionally in the top 3. It all depends if I face Humans or Affinity Hardened Scales, they are usually bad pairing but sometimes my side love me. Where game there is usually tron, uw/jeskai control, humans, titanshift, hardened scales, bant company, grixis death shadow and grixis delver.
Now I preparing a Naya version, based on the youtuber of the recent post but more focused on the bloodbraid elf. I also consider that the grim lavamancer doesn't fit on the deck. I'm considering Thalia (big) on main, she can support delaying the opponent's on T2 until LD, BM or Ajani arrives.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
If everything arrives on time, I will be able to try the naya version the following week but I will have to put the birds of paradise to avoid the incosistence with the mana.
@pf_mtg Birds of paradise make our game plan more consistent but sometimes it's not enough to win. I've lost games after T2 moon and 3 LD consecutive for lack of agroo.
I decided to leave them aside for 3 main reasons:
1) When I used the side, I almost always took them out, very few times they were left inside.
2) Bloodbraid Elf to utopia sprawl/arbor elf/birds of paradise is too bad, removing them I've lowered that possibility a bit.
3) So much flooding and bad top deck.
Very few times I have had hand without a mana dork, I would consider that it has lowered a 5% or less the consistency of T2 LD or BM but I have increased in a 10/15% the pressure in game.
4 arbor elf
2 birds of paradise
4 tireless tracker
3 scavenging ooze
2 glorybringer
Sorcery
4 stone rain
4 molten rain
4 flameslash
4 blood Moon
4 utopia sprawl
Plainswalkes
3 Chandra, torch of defiance
Lands
8 forest
1 mountain
4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
2 kessig wolf run
3 stomping grounds
3 Abrade
4 obstinant baloth
2 relic of progenitus
3 trinisphere
2 anger of the gods
1 Flex Spot
I know theres a pretty big divergence from the standard build. Lightning bolts came out in favor of flame slash because of the rise in thing in the ice and the increaded prevalence of spirits. In too many matches the bolt just iant doing enough dmg. Which is also why I upped the shandra found and switched from inferno titan to glorybringer. It hurts to move the Scooze to the MD, but with dredge on the rise post creeping chill, and arclight Phoenix being everywhere, you need to have something MD to deal with it. Not to mention the value it has against a host of other decks. As im sure has been stated the BBE had to go, it has too many feels bad cascades in the current build. My biggest concern is the same concern I jad playimg this deck before and that's lack of closing speed and the ability to finish the game. Id really lile to be able to free another spot or maybe 2 for threats but I'm not sure what I'd cut to get there. I could maybe trim 1 molten rain but that's about it.
The SB mostly speaks for it self. I opt for 4 baloth. I just like the card a lot and think it's value is understated. Trinisphere count is a ticl higher, again because of arclight Phoenix decks. The only thing i am contemplation changing is not going with relic and opting for grafdiggers cage instead.
I also had a notion of going to a suite of more plainswalkes and running ensnaring bridge im the SB but that might be too jank.