Yes i got your point about redundacy and i agree that 4 jab would be necessary with helix. My point was that i'm not sure helix is worth running since we need to play 4 jabs.
EDIT: helix would also be fine with lingering souls imprinted. 2 tokens for every flame jab? Yes please! This is tempting, i'll have to think of an optimal configuration.
This is what I'm thinking of as an initial test. I was also considering a 1-of Blightning for value but I don't like that many 3 drops. No instants kind of sucks but Decay could easily be sided in for Twin match ups.
I like it, helix really has some neat applications with sideboarding too. Have you thought about adding some higher cc stuff to «cheat»? Like maybe plow under or absorb vis? There might be some potential to do crazy things here...
I was thinking about doing something like that, but I wasn't sure how far to go with it. Absorb Vis is nice because cycling puts it in the graveyard without clogging up the hand too much. I don't know how effective it'd be for winning the game though. I'll give it a try though. I was thinking of going bigger with a spell like Violent Ultimatum or Worst Fears. Worldfire with Flame Jab straight wins the game with how Helix stacks the spells. I was also thinking something like Blightning might be fun.
EDIT: Or just go balls to the wall with off color spells since I'll never cast them realistically in a game. Time Stretch, Storm Herd, or All is Dust.
That is pretty nuts. Great thoughts on the possible uses on Helix. I really like worst fears idea the best I think. Blightning would equal essentially 4 damage a turn. Also, I forgot that helix removes from the yard, not from the hand so that is really good to be able to start loaming immediately to get those spells into our yards.
Basically added a 3rd inquisition and a 4th assault. I want to draw assault every game and i lose some games due to drawing them too late. Keeping pharaoh because he was pretty good yesterday. I faced a lot of scavenging ooze though, like 3 junk decks in a row the first ooze is managable, the 2nd is annoying but the 3rd late game is very hard. Still, games were tight and i think assault is very good vs ooze since we won't have much creature to feed them and usually just discarding a land or 2 is enough to kill it.
Seems a lot more streamlined with a lot of redundancy which is great. I like the list. Let us know how the testing goes. Would you consider a second bow mainboard to make blocking and trading with pyromancer tokens even less desirable?
I was thinking about doing something like that, but I wasn't sure how far to go with it. Absorb Vis is nice because cycling puts it in the graveyard without clogging up the hand too much. I don't know how effective it'd be for winning the game though. I'll give it a try though. I was thinking of going bigger with a spell like Violent Ultimatum or Worst Fears. Worldfire with Flame Jab straight wins the game with how Helix stacks the spells. I was also thinking something like Blightning might be fun.
EDIT: Or just go balls to the wall with off color spells since I'll never cast them realistically in a game. Time Stretch, Storm Herd, or All is Dust.
Damn I came here to mention a singleton Worldfire but you beat me to it. I think that it would be pretty funny to cast it off of a Flame Jab as there was a deck floating around months ago dedicated to this combo.
You could even put in a singleton Buried Ruin to get it out of your graveyard if you dredge it, and the Loam could get the Ruin if that is ever dredged.
Worldfire and flame jab definitely seem pretty nice together. Personally I'd probably set a set list and then add 3 flex slots for whatever tech I wanted to run as possible helix imprints.
Do you think bow is worthy of a slot main deck? I haven't played a lot with it, there are a lot less burn decks then there were when i decided to put bow in my board. I do side it in from time to time but i never seem to draw it... I've heard a lot of positive comment on bow on this forum. The only card i could possibly cut for it is pharaoh but it has been pretty good, not sure if a singleton bow would be better, pharaoh at least does its work from the grave.
I played junk this last week with a 1 of bow for the main and it was amazing. 1 of in the board is probably fine though. It was awesome when I saw it but I only saw it once in 4 rounds of playing.
Do you think bow is worthy of a slot main deck? I haven't played a lot with it, there are a lot less burn decks then there were when i decided to put bow in my board. I do side it in from time to time but i never seem to draw it... I've heard a lot of positive comment on bow on this forum. The only card i could possibly cut for it is pharaoh but it has been pretty good, not sure if a singleton bow would be better, pharaoh at least does its work from the grave.
I feel that in game one we want our deck to be as resilient as possible. If we can have as much of it operating form the grave when there is no hate in the game then that is good for us. Game 2 and 3 the grave hate comes in so Bow gives us a way to still function a bit without using the graveyard which the opponent won't be expecting. It can also save some cards from grave hate, and that mode isn't as useful in the first game. Overall I think it has the most value after sideboarding so that is when I like to use it.
I did some goldfishing with the Spellweaver Helix deck. The advantage that card creates is insane. It doesn't matter what you pair with a Retrace spell, it just goes crazy. Though without playing against an opponent I'm not sure how useful Imprinting Maelstrom Pulse would be. I changed the list up a bit though. I wasn't crazy about Smallpox as the mana constraints are already a little tough and I'm running Bob because he's awesome and I never get to play with him. The list seems pretty solid and looks like this:
Anyways, figured I'd share what I had gotten to with the deck. It's pretty fun and seems consistent. The main plan of Assault Loam is still good and has the Bob/Liliana power with it. But it can just go nuts with a Spellweaver's Helix. Which is a really cool aspect to the card. I'm excited to play it next Wednesday.
No worldfir as a 1 of. That seemed like a pretty good idea. Just curious as to what happened to that idea. Maybe you found it too cute? I like the idea of a blightning over a maelstrom pulse. Flame jab with blightning seems good. Earlier in a match raven's crime and blightning seems pretty good as well. I still love the idea of just topping Loam and jab or crime on it, then going nuts with however much mana you have for the retrace. Really great idea. I can't wait to test it when I can pick up helix.
I did some goldfishing with the Spellweaver Helix deck. The advantage that card creates is insane. It doesn't matter what you pair with a Retrace spell, it just goes crazy. Though without playing against an opponent I'm not sure how useful Imprinting Maelstrom Pulse would be. I changed the list up a bit though. I wasn't crazy about Smallpox as the mana constraints are already a little tough and I'm running Bob because he's awesome and I never get to play with him. The list seems pretty solid and looks like this:
Anyways, figured I'd share what I had gotten to with the deck. It's pretty fun and seems consistent. The main plan of Assault Loam is still good and has the Bob/Liliana power with it. But it can just go nuts with a Spellweaver's Helix. Which is a really cool aspect to the card. I'm excited to play it next Wednesday.
That list looks goood, but what happens the time you reveal Worst Fears off of Bob?? You're probably going to loose some games too it haha. It almost makes an infinite combo though, because with a retrace spell you could Loam each turn and cast a Worst Fears every turn. You can't expect to deck the opponent this way, but clearing their board and swinging in with some creatures could be a gameplan.
Haha. I didn't even think about that. But as a random 1-of in the deck it shouldn't be a problem. The one game it does happen will be full of lulz and I don't think I could be upset with that. It's also aptly named for if that does happen. The upside to running Bob here is too good since the card quality is a bit low because of so many retrace spells. I decided against Worldfire because you can only imprint it with Flame Jab. Which is a bit too narrow and taking every turn for your opponent puts them in goldfish mode. Eventually you'll just burn them out with an Assault. It seems more consistent and can auto win for you on turn 4.
Slaughter games in the board would be good, extracting something for every jab you cast is crazy. I'd try to maybe add more sorceries in your sideboard for added synergy with helix. No young pyro? Seems like he would be nuts with helix...
The sideboard was just thrown together from what I had laying around/from my RUG Loam deck. I agree Slaughter Games should be in there. I don't know if I have any though but I'm sure I can get a couple. Is there anything else that would be worth including? I can't think of any other good sorcery sideboard cards. Damnation?
The big problem with the Helix is, that the "big" sorcery cards e.g. Worldfire are just garbage without the Helix. You will never be able to cast one of these. If you have it in your opening 7 it is basically a mulligan. Since you are playing Liliana of the Veil it is not that bad, because you can pitch it to the +1 ability. Otherwise you have no real option to get it into the grave.
But if you really want to play a big sorcery finisher for the helix, you could play Cruel/Violent Ultimatum since they are most of the times just gg if they are resolving.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The big problem with the Helix is, that the "big" sorcery cards e.g. Worldfire are just garbage without the Helix. You will never be able to cast one of these. If you have it in your opening 7 it is basically a mulligan. Since you are playing Liliana of the Veil it is not that bad, because you can pitch it to the +1 ability. Otherwise you have no real option to get it into the grave.
But if you really want to play a big sorcery finisher for the helix, you could play Cruel/Violent Ultimatum since they are most of the times just gg if they are resolving.
Greetings,
Kathal
Not true. You have Lily, Faithless Looting, and if the situation calls for it you can Raven's Crime yourself. Basically you have 10-11 cards that can discard the spell and you're not upset about it, and 8 of those can work from the grave.
EDIT: helix would also be fine with lingering souls imprinted. 2 tokens for every flame jab? Yes please! This is tempting, i'll have to think of an optimal configuration.
4 Faithless Looting
4 Raven's Crime
4 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
3 Smallpox
2 Dreadbore
2 Maelstrom Pulse
Permanents: 12
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Spellweaver Helix
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Seismic Assault
1 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Graven Cairns
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
This is what I'm thinking of as an initial test. I was also considering a 1-of Blightning for value but I don't like that many 3 drops. No instants kind of sucks but Decay could easily be sided in for Twin match ups.
EDIT: Or just go balls to the wall with off color spells since I'll never cast them realistically in a game. Time Stretch, Storm Herd, or All is Dust.
4 Faithless Looting
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
4 Life From The Loam
4 Lingering Souls
instants: 5
1 Darkblast
4 Abrupt Decay
enchantments: 4
4 Seismic Assault
creatures: 5
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Liliana of the Veil
lands: 25
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
1 Graven Cairns
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Treetop Village
2 Raging Ravine
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Anger Of The Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Slaughter Games
1 Bow of Nylea
Basically added a 3rd inquisition and a 4th assault. I want to draw assault every game and i lose some games due to drawing them too late. Keeping pharaoh because he was pretty good yesterday. I faced a lot of scavenging ooze though, like 3 junk decks in a row the first ooze is managable, the 2nd is annoying but the 3rd late game is very hard. Still, games were tight and i think assault is very good vs ooze since we won't have much creature to feed them and usually just discarding a land or 2 is enough to kill it.
You could even put in a singleton Buried Ruin to get it out of your graveyard if you dredge it, and the Loam could get the Ruin if that is ever dredged.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Faithless Looting
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Worst Fears
Permanents: 12
4 Dark Confidant
2 Spellweaver Helix
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Seismic Assault
1 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Graven Cairns
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Crucible of Worlds
Anyways, figured I'd share what I had gotten to with the deck. It's pretty fun and seems consistent. The main plan of Assault Loam is still good and has the Bob/Liliana power with it. But it can just go nuts with a Spellweaver's Helix. Which is a really cool aspect to the card. I'm excited to play it next Wednesday.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
But if you really want to play a big sorcery finisher for the helix, you could play Cruel/Violent Ultimatum since they are most of the times just gg if they are resolving.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge