I don't think it's bad. It's just not as aggressive as the Jund build. I think the guy that was testing the Naya version said Knight was usually just a beater and generally the deck was a bit slow. I think you could definitely do well with Naya as the individual cards are strong and there is synergy there. We still need someone to work on and refine a Naya list though. So if you feel like working on it and sharing your results, I'd be glad to get a list set up in the Primer for you and some match up results.
Heh, I feel a bit guilty now as I just went ahead and switched to the Jund version. Lol between Bob access and Lili's self-discard being a potential upside, I had to try it. Though I did want to ask what you guys thought about the slight change I made:
Basically, it's Bronson Magnan's list (or at least his 60) exactly, but with -4 Blackleave Cliffs, +1 Stomping Ground, +1 Overgrown Tomb, and +2 Faithless Looting. Aside the land preference specifically, the main theory is that 26 land rather than 28 should be sufficient. Hopefully that hunch turns out accurate, I guess we'll see.
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Formerly JacobsCabin, thank god the new site let me change it.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern: GWGW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR R Robots with burn R
Lots o' talk about Living End, wow! I was saying that the matchup is probably good for me (although I haven't tested against it) because the creatures I'd bring back trump my opponent's. What graveyard hate do they play, Faerie Macabre?
@mykatdied, thanks for confirming my suspicion about Pyroclasm. I feel like they're good when they're good but horrible every other time. I like the idea of having instant-speed removal against Twin, so I may keep the Lightning Axes in and swap out one Flame Jab for another Drown in Filth. Like you said, I don't think I need a ton of Jabs because of my diversity of land-pitchers, but having access to one would probably be nice just in case things go south.
What if I played one or two Zombie Infestations as an alternative way to utilize my resources? Some of the Goryo's Vengeance deckbuilders have talked about including Infestation, and I'm starting to think it would be better than Jab because I now have my sweepers in the sideboard. Then again, if I'm gonna go the creature route, I might as well play Lingering Souls, which I never really loved in the deck.
Magic is hard.
Goryo's vengeance seems much more effective for you especially if you can lighting axe end of your opponent's turn rather than waiting on rites. Not sure if running a couple of those would be better or just completely change your deck too much.
Heh, I feel a bit guilty now as I just went ahead and switched to the Jund version. Lol between Bob access and Lili's self-discard being a potential upside, I had to try it. Though I did want to ask what you guys thought about the slight change I made:
Basically, it's Bronson Magnan's list (or at least his 60) exactly, but with -4 Blackleave Cliffs, +1 Stomping Ground, +1 Overgrown Tomb, and +2 Faithless Looting. Aside the land preference specifically, the main theory is that 26 land rather than 28 should be sufficient. Hopefully that hunch turns out accurate, I guess we'll see.
Haha, don't worry about it. I've been thinking about sleeving up a Jund list and giving it a try. The GB core cards are really powerful. Tack on Assault+Loam, and it seems like it should be a really solid deck. I love my RUG list but I think getting some experience with different variations of the deck will help get some perspective on it.
I personally found 25 lands to be right for my RUG list. Others have come to a similar conclusion with other builds. Somewhere around 25-26 is usually pretty good. Depends on the build though. The Creatureless builds can get away with more lands because of their higher numbers of Retrace. There are more aggro builds that run 21-23. I think you'll be fine with that number. Though I think you shouldn't cut Blackcleave Cliffs. The fast lands are extremely helpful in color-fixing and I can't imagine running one of these decks without them.
Lots o' talk about Living End, wow! I was saying that the matchup is probably good for me (although I haven't tested against it) because the creatures I'd bring back trump my opponent's. What graveyard hate do they play, Faerie Macabre?
@mykatdied, thanks for confirming my suspicion about Pyroclasm. I feel like they're good when they're good but horrible every other time. I like the idea of having instant-speed removal against Twin, so I may keep the Lightning Axes in and swap out one Flame Jab for another Drown in Filth. Like you said, I don't think I need a ton of Jabs because of my diversity of land-pitchers, but having access to one would probably be nice just in case things go south.
What if I played one or two Zombie Infestations as an alternative way to utilize my resources? Some of the Goryo's Vengeance deckbuilders have talked about including Infestation, and I'm starting to think it would be better than Jab because I now have my sweepers in the sideboard. Then again, if I'm gonna go the creature route, I might as well play Lingering Souls, which I never really loved in the deck.
Magic is hard.
Getting back one or two creatures off of a Living End won't really stop the horde that they'll bring back. Griselbrand might be enough to hold them off but it won't be a certain thing. Also, Street Wraith has Swampwalk. Which is mildly relevant.
I run sideboard Volcanic Fallout for the UWR Geist of St Win type decks. Keeps them from countering it and kills off the Geist. It's also an instant, which is more relevant for my RUG list but I've liked it more than Pyroclasm. Unless you really need something that costs 2 mana, I'd recommend that.
I don't know if Zombie Infestation is really where you want to be. I've played with it a couple times in other decks. Even with Loam, you aren't going to get the activations out of it that you want. Maybe with Squee and making your deck operate almost entirely out of the graveyard, you could pitch almost every card you pick up and that would equate to maybe 6 or 7 zombies over the course of the game? Is 2 mana and being Hellbent all the time really worth 6 2/2s?
Haha, don't worry about it. I've been thinking about sleeving up a Jund list and giving it a try. The GB core cards are really powerful. Tack on Assault+Loam, and it seems like it should be a really solid deck. I love my RUG list but I think getting some experience with different variations of the deck will help get some perspective on it.
I personally found 25 lands to be right for my RUG list. Others have come to a similar conclusion with other builds. Somewhere around 25-26 is usually pretty good. Depends on the build though. The Creatureless builds can get away with more lands because of their higher numbers of Retrace. There are more aggro builds that run 21-23. I think you'll be fine with that number. Though I think you shouldn't cut Blackcleave Cliffs. The fast lands are extremely helpful in color-fixing and I can't imagine running one of these decks without them.
Well, tell me if I'm way off base here, but it just seems like the idea that they come into play tapped unless it's your first or second land drop is what seems to make it 'expendable.' I did replace them with duals for said fixing. Yes, they're shock lands, but if Cliffs coming in tapped w/ 3+ lands in play is OK, then it stands to reason (so I I'm thinking) that if the life loss from the shocks is bad news, let them come into play tapped too. Seems the only real 'refutation' of this if we have to play the shock on turn 1 or 2. And it seems that:
a. not that big a deal
b. once 2 lands are in play, there's no reason to ever prefer Cliffs over the shocks.
Is there something I'm missing? It seems the color fixing isn't affected in the slightest, and we already have color vesatility early without needing 4 comes-into-play-tapped lands, no?
Unrelated to the land discussion, but I stumbled upon an old LSV vid running Jund Loam, though for some reason it's unavailable and I cant watch it! BUT.. it does show his list typed out. And based on that list, and the card choice rationales, I replaced my 4th Raven's Crime with a single Worm Harvest. LSV even says of Harvest, "it's so imporant, I'm surprised it didn't appear in the original list." <shrug> Seems like a good enough reason to me to at least try it out. His list also had some Faithless Lootings, which made me happy since I threw in two of those upon going from 28 to 26 lands. Whoo hoo! lol
He also ran zero Countryside Crushers. Bleh, not a fan of that move at all, even though I'm sure the deck can run fine without em.
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Formerly JacobsCabin, thank god the new site let me change it.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern: GWGW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR R Robots with burn R
Those lists are coming out of a time before Deathrite Shaman. Before a lot of stuff actually. They are fairly out of date. Wurm Harvest isn't a bad card but with Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman, your individual Retrace cards are less likely to give you value. On top of that, it is a 5cmc sorcery that doesn't necessarily win you the game.
The difference between LSV's list and Magnon's list were all in the play style. Magnon was going for a port of Aggro Loam, looking to apply more mid-game pressure with the grindy Assault-Loam combo to finish off games. LSV was going for a more control aspect that relied more heavily on the grinding out of games. Countryside Crusher as well as a couple other cards were cut to refine the deck to that strategy. I think both versions have merit but I fall more under LSV's opinion that CC is a bit clunky and not quite as powerful as you want it to be.
I don't know about your experience with the deck, but most of my games are spent on 3-4 lands in play. The others are used for fueling Assault and Looting effects. So in a game when you can drop an untapped dual land with no real drawback, then you are getting a lot of value. I'm not saying they are always the perfect thing for the deck but the utility is definitely there. I run three Copperline Gorge in my deck. I've rarely had times where it was disheartening to see them. Especially in decks that have no life gain, run Bob and are doing 2-3 damage to themselves to keep tempo with land drops against aggro decks. You are more or less giving free cards to your opponent by playing your lands. I personally think the fastlands are worth running if you have them.
Those lists are coming out of a time before Deathrite Shaman. Before a lot of stuff actually. They are fairly out of date. Wurm Harvest isn't a bad card but with Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman, your individual Retrace cards are less likely to give you value. On top of that, it is a 5cmc sorcery that doesn't necessarily win you the game.
The difference between LSV's list and Magnon's list were all in the play style. Magnon was going for a port of Aggro Loam, looking to apply more mid-game pressure with the grindy Assault-Loam combo to finish off games. LSV was going for a more control aspect that relied more heavily on the grinding out of games. Countryside Crusher as well as a couple other cards were cut to refine the deck to that strategy. I think both versions have merit but I fall more under LSV's opinion that CC is a bit clunky and not quite as powerful as you want it to be.
I don't know about your experience with the deck, but most of my games are spent on 3-4 lands in play. The others are used for fueling Assault and Looting effects. So in a game when you can drop an untapped dual land with no real drawback, then you are getting a lot of value. I'm not saying they are always the perfect thing for the deck but the utility is definitely there. I run three Copperline Gorge in my deck. I've rarely had times where it was disheartening to see them. Especially in decks that have no life gain, run Bob and are doing 2-3 damage to themselves to keep tempo with land drops against aggro decks. You are more or less giving free cards to your opponent by playing your lands. I personally think the fastlands are worth running if you have them.
Yeah I figured those lists were a bit outdated, but worthy of checking out nonetheless.
Really, it's been years since Ive gotten to sit down and really play the deck (or magic, really). Which is why I had the Naya version all sleeved up... it was an Extended deck! lol So really now I'm just trying to settle on a port for Modern, as Aggro Loam in general is my fav strategy to play overall. So as it stands, my personal "experience" isn't really of any value, at least not yet. Hence my asking questions of a mostly theoretcial nature.
I'm definitely a casual player, but take the game seriously as far as theory. So I guess you could say I'm a kitchen table player, but only literally. Hehe
Formerly JacobsCabin, thank god the new site let me change it.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern: GWGW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR R Robots with burn R
Getting back one or two creatures off of a Living End won't really stop the horde that they'll bring back. Griselbrand might be enough to hold them off but it won't be a certain thing. Also, Street Wraith has Swampwalk. Which is mildly relevant.
I run sideboard Volcanic Fallout for the UWR Geist of St Win type decks. Keeps them from countering it and kills off the Geist. It's also an instant, which is more relevant for my RUG list but I've liked it more than Pyroclasm. Unless you really need something that costs 2 mana, I'd recommend that.
Well if I bring back Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, all their dudes are dorks; Borborygmos Enraged can just chuck lands at them and Griselbrand can draw me answers and gain me life because I get to attack first. I haven't played against Living End, though, so maybe the onslaught really is a problem. Should I try and find room for a Bojuka Bog somewhere in the 75? I guess I could bring it in against Tarmogoyf and Snapcaster Mage, too.
I haven't tried Volcanic Fallout, but it looks really powerful. It can even be good against Pestermite. My mana base is kinda painful, though, so do you think the life loss is worth the effect in my build? I think three sweepers feels correct in my 75. Maybe a maindeck Damnation and two Fallouts in the side? I dunno. Is Pyroclasm insane against Affinity? I don't have much experience against the deck, as I've never drawn my Clasms in my few games against it.
Assuming we're running the Jund version (that I referrenced above), what sort of sideboard cards do we tend to want against Jund (traditional, I mean, not Jund Loam)? I'm assuming the couple Thoughtseizes I've seen in several 75s want to come in against Jund.. tryin' to think what else. Maybe a small number of Maelstrom Pulses and/or Abrupt Decays? Seems like Decay should be great against Jund, actually.
Lastly, if my sideboard has 2 Pyroclasms already, you think an additional Damnation or 2 would be a smart splt? Or needlessly redundant?
Since my friends/opponents are basically going to be using the decks I have already put together, that means my 'meta' will basically be Jund, Robots (I refuse to call it 'Affinity!!' lol), and a freakin' amazing** GW aggro deck of my own design that cheats in fatties. Might that be where the Damnations get a chance to shine?
(** OK, I'm a bit biased. But check the link in my sig if you're at all interested. It really is pretty bad ass)
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Formerly JacobsCabin, thank god the new site let me change it.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern: GWGW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR R Robots with burn R
If you want to go off of big tournament results, it was only in business once. It's been a small time player ever since Magnon's win. It was like that before Deathrite came out, was like that while Deathrite Shaman was out, and will most likely stay like that now that she's gone. The only thing that changes is that people might feel more inclined to pick up the deck and play it for their small tournaments. It's always been a strong strategy but it has its weaknesses. The few of us that have stuck with the deck have been working on making it better this whole time. Hopefully we can garner some more input from a change of perspective.
The only real benefit I see for us is that this ban makes Retrace a bit better than it was, though it was always viable. It does eliminate an annoyance for us, which is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm just opposed to the implication that the deck was unable to deal with graveyard hate. Especially, predominant graveyard hate.
Anyone care enough about Bitterblossom that we consider Illness in the Ranks or Night of Souls' Betrayal or anything like that? I don't think BB will be devastating against me, as I'm more combo-centric and can potentially win before the Faerie onslaught. Those Volcanic Fallouts are lookin' better already. What does concern me, though, is Zoo running me over before I get a chance to set up. I've struggled with the Merfolk matchup sometimes, and I think Zoo will be a more efficient beatdown strategy than that. Anyone's decks adjusting at all for this new meta?
I think your build doesn't really care about zoo as much since you do have the option of grislebrand to gain some life back as well as your other big guys to close out a game much faster. I also think you are better off against bitterblossum. I think blossum actually subtracts from our clock and we like that. It also means that flame jab is much more live as removal aside from in b/w tokens where they have the anthem effects. Thankfully it is 1 life a turn against them, only 1 token a turn and added with the fetchlands, shocklands and thoughtseize they do a lot more damage to themselves with it. Happily deathrite got the boot, I am not sure why... it really isn't all that game breaking. Most of the top tier decks these days do not run any... so there is that. But yay for us.
I don´t think, that Faerie decks make us any problem. The reasons for it are, that they have most of the times only X/1 bodys and we are playing Flame Jab. So we have kind of a Goblin Sharpshooter against their deck. Furthermore counters are most of the time useless (unless you want to resolve a Seismic Assault, Young Pyromancer or a Liliana), because we have the amazing Loam Engine against them. I played with the classic Creatureless Jundversion against UR "Fae", which should be the most similar deck to the will be UBx Fae. Flame Jab and Loam was just gg against them
I have a small question to the changes through the banlist upgrade. The DRS gave the players a mirage, that they need no more Graveyard hate. Do you think, that players will panik and slam tons of Graveyard Hate in the SB? DRS was nearly never a issue for me and there were not many players, which played more Hate in the Board.
I´m thinking, that the Naya Version got a great boost. The reason for that is, that the Knight is back in business of one of the biggest creatures in the format. Maybe I put the deck together and test it and report then here.
The Loam based decks were never populat (sadly) because many people can´t see, how amazing the deck is and how much fun it is to play with it.
Sencerly,
Kathal
PS: Sorry for my bad english.
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I really think our main issue is rest in peace. Leyline is quite annoying as well, but not as good of a top deck and RiP can be. Deathrite never really stopped me. It was always a 2 flame jab target and they can't respond in between so it should never have lost summoning sickness before dying. In my experience deathrite was still backed up by leyline of the void. Unlike RiP leyline leaves your deathrite and goyf completely vialble and difficult threats to handle. I also have run this deck for 6 months or so now and people had began boarding against me for the last 4 of them or so. So I most likely saw a lot more leyline of the void back up for a deathrite than most. So I don't think the loss of deathrite really increases our chances of seeing more yard hate. We'll most likely just see more cage or crypt than before in the b/g lists.
I really think our main issue is rest in peace. Leyline is quite annoying as well, but not as good of a top deck and RiP can be. Deathrite never really stopped me. It was always a 2 flame jab target and they can't respond in between so it should never have lost summoning sickness before dying. In my experience deathrite was still backed up by leyline of the void. Unlike RiP leyline leaves your deathrite and goyf completely vialble and difficult threats to handle. I also have run this deck for 6 months or so now and people had began boarding against me for the last 4 of them or so. So I most likely saw a lot more leyline of the void back up for a deathrite than most. So I don't think the loss of deathrite really increases our chances of seeing more yard hate. We'll most likely just see more cage or crypt than before in the b/g lists.
I agree that RiP is the only real problem card as far as graveyard hate. Leyline is always a post-board card. If it comes down turn 1, you can always play around it (either until you remove it or just play without the use of your 'yard). Cage doesn't stop Life from the Loam thankfully but it does hit Retrace. Tormod's Crypt and the other one-and-done graveyard hate cards aren't that bad either. Sandbagging an extra Loam or draw spell can pull you back from them. RiP is thankfully hit by Abrupt Decay (which I don't have access to in my RUG deck... :frown:) and I don't see a ton of it getting played. Though that may change. There is always Maelstrom Pulse as well. Counter spells or Enchantment hate from the SB are other options. I guess what I'm getting at is that the grave hate is annoying, but we have outs to it all. It'd be kind of silly for us not to expect it to come in.
It let's you get all the fun stuff with Seismic/Countryside/Flame Jab, but gives you a ghost quarter interaction that can just keep people from playing against you. It's a little slow so out of the board I'm thinking some number of Path to Exile, and Anger of the Gods or something comparable to shore up aggressive beatdown strategies.
It let's you get all the fun stuff with Seismic/Countryside/Flame Jab, but gives you a ghost quarter interaction that can just keep people from playing against you. It's a little slow so out of the board I'm thinking some number of Path to Exile, and Anger of the Gods or something comparable to shore up aggressive beatdown strategies.
That is a very neat list and idea. I like it a lot. I am gonna take some time to check it out and see if I can come up with any suggestions. But I like it a lot so far. It is like hate bears meets aggro loam. Really neat idea. I am think with Nacatl being unbanned that anger of the gods may be the better option seeing as it wipes the board of zoo and doesn't leave creatures behind to grow the goyf.
This hasn't been mentioned yet, so I might as well be the first. Is it worth it to play Naya for Wild Nacatl? Also Naya colors give you Tamanoa, which seems like it would be a decent option against burn and aggro. It turns every land and retraced Flame Jab into a mini Lightning Helix, and it turns every Lightning Bolt into a real one. It also has the toughness to block Wild Nacatl if Zoo becomes the dominant deck again. It does a lot of work against aggro and burn, but not much against control or combo.
Heh, I feel a bit guilty now as I just went ahead and switched to the Jund version. Lol between Bob access and Lili's self-discard being a potential upside, I had to try it. Though I did want to ask what you guys thought about the slight change I made:
Basically, it's Bronson Magnan's list (or at least his 60) exactly, but with -4 Blackleave Cliffs, +1 Stomping Ground, +1 Overgrown Tomb, and +2 Faithless Looting. Aside the land preference specifically, the main theory is that 26 land rather than 28 should be sufficient. Hopefully that hunch turns out accurate, I guess we'll see.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern:
GW GW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG
RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR
R Robots with burn R
Oh well look at that. I forgot how the card actually read. Thank you.
Goryo's vengeance seems much more effective for you especially if you can lighting axe end of your opponent's turn rather than waiting on rites. Not sure if running a couple of those would be better or just completely change your deck too much.
Haha, don't worry about it. I've been thinking about sleeving up a Jund list and giving it a try. The GB core cards are really powerful. Tack on Assault+Loam, and it seems like it should be a really solid deck. I love my RUG list but I think getting some experience with different variations of the deck will help get some perspective on it.
I personally found 25 lands to be right for my RUG list. Others have come to a similar conclusion with other builds. Somewhere around 25-26 is usually pretty good. Depends on the build though. The Creatureless builds can get away with more lands because of their higher numbers of Retrace. There are more aggro builds that run 21-23. I think you'll be fine with that number. Though I think you shouldn't cut Blackcleave Cliffs. The fast lands are extremely helpful in color-fixing and I can't imagine running one of these decks without them.
Getting back one or two creatures off of a Living End won't really stop the horde that they'll bring back. Griselbrand might be enough to hold them off but it won't be a certain thing. Also, Street Wraith has Swampwalk. Which is mildly relevant.
I run sideboard Volcanic Fallout for the UWR Geist of St Win type decks. Keeps them from countering it and kills off the Geist. It's also an instant, which is more relevant for my RUG list but I've liked it more than Pyroclasm. Unless you really need something that costs 2 mana, I'd recommend that.
I don't know if Zombie Infestation is really where you want to be. I've played with it a couple times in other decks. Even with Loam, you aren't going to get the activations out of it that you want. Maybe with Squee and making your deck operate almost entirely out of the graveyard, you could pitch almost every card you pick up and that would equate to maybe 6 or 7 zombies over the course of the game? Is 2 mana and being Hellbent all the time really worth 6 2/2s?
Well, tell me if I'm way off base here, but it just seems like the idea that they come into play tapped unless it's your first or second land drop is what seems to make it 'expendable.' I did replace them with duals for said fixing. Yes, they're shock lands, but if Cliffs coming in tapped w/ 3+ lands in play is OK, then it stands to reason (so I I'm thinking) that if the life loss from the shocks is bad news, let them come into play tapped too. Seems the only real 'refutation' of this if we have to play the shock on turn 1 or 2. And it seems that:
a. not that big a deal
b. once 2 lands are in play, there's no reason to ever prefer Cliffs over the shocks.
Is there something I'm missing? It seems the color fixing isn't affected in the slightest, and we already have color vesatility early without needing 4 comes-into-play-tapped lands, no?
Unrelated to the land discussion, but I stumbled upon an old LSV vid running Jund Loam, though for some reason it's unavailable and I cant watch it! BUT.. it does show his list typed out. And based on that list, and the card choice rationales, I replaced my 4th Raven's Crime with a single Worm Harvest. LSV even says of Harvest, "it's so imporant, I'm surprised it didn't appear in the original list." <shrug> Seems like a good enough reason to me to at least try it out. His list also had some Faithless Lootings, which made me happy since I threw in two of those upon going from 28 to 26 lands. Whoo hoo! lol
He also ran zero Countryside Crushers. Bleh, not a fan of that move at all, even though I'm sure the deck can run fine without em.
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern:
GW GW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG
RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR
R Robots with burn R
The difference between LSV's list and Magnon's list were all in the play style. Magnon was going for a port of Aggro Loam, looking to apply more mid-game pressure with the grindy Assault-Loam combo to finish off games. LSV was going for a more control aspect that relied more heavily on the grinding out of games. Countryside Crusher as well as a couple other cards were cut to refine the deck to that strategy. I think both versions have merit but I fall more under LSV's opinion that CC is a bit clunky and not quite as powerful as you want it to be.
I don't know about your experience with the deck, but most of my games are spent on 3-4 lands in play. The others are used for fueling Assault and Looting effects. So in a game when you can drop an untapped dual land with no real drawback, then you are getting a lot of value. I'm not saying they are always the perfect thing for the deck but the utility is definitely there. I run three Copperline Gorge in my deck. I've rarely had times where it was disheartening to see them. Especially in decks that have no life gain, run Bob and are doing 2-3 damage to themselves to keep tempo with land drops against aggro decks. You are more or less giving free cards to your opponent by playing your lands. I personally think the fastlands are worth running if you have them.
Yeah I figured those lists were a bit outdated, but worthy of checking out nonetheless.
Really, it's been years since Ive gotten to sit down and really play the deck (or magic, really). Which is why I had the Naya version all sleeved up... it was an Extended deck! lol So really now I'm just trying to settle on a port for Modern, as Aggro Loam in general is my fav strategy to play overall. So as it stands, my personal "experience" isn't really of any value, at least not yet. Hence my asking questions of a mostly theoretcial nature.
I'm definitely a casual player, but take the game seriously as far as theory. So I guess you could say I'm a kitchen table player, but only literally. Hehe
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern:
GW GW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG
RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR
R Robots with burn R
Well if I bring back Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, all their dudes are dorks; Borborygmos Enraged can just chuck lands at them and Griselbrand can draw me answers and gain me life because I get to attack first. I haven't played against Living End, though, so maybe the onslaught really is a problem. Should I try and find room for a Bojuka Bog somewhere in the 75? I guess I could bring it in against Tarmogoyf and Snapcaster Mage, too.
I haven't tried Volcanic Fallout, but it looks really powerful. It can even be good against Pestermite. My mana base is kinda painful, though, so do you think the life loss is worth the effect in my build? I think three sweepers feels correct in my 75. Maybe a maindeck Damnation and two Fallouts in the side? I dunno. Is Pyroclasm insane against Affinity? I don't have much experience against the deck, as I've never drawn my Clasms in my few games against it.
Lastly, if my sideboard has 2 Pyroclasms already, you think an additional Damnation or 2 would be a smart splt? Or needlessly redundant?
Since my friends/opponents are basically going to be using the decks I have already put together, that means my 'meta' will basically be Jund, Robots (I refuse to call it 'Affinity!!' lol), and a freakin' amazing** GW aggro deck of my own design that cheats in fatties. Might that be where the Damnations get a chance to shine?
(** OK, I'm a bit biased. But check the link in my sig if you're at all interested. It really is pretty bad ass)
Also very much into fighting games (mostly UMvC3) and chess, feel free to hit me up about either!
Modern:
GW GW Sovereigning Trap (my own design, feedback welcome!) WG
RGB Aggro Loam (does a more fun deck exist?) BGR
R Robots with burn R
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It was less in business.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The only real benefit I see for us is that this ban makes Retrace a bit better than it was, though it was always viable. It does eliminate an annoyance for us, which is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. I'm just opposed to the implication that the deck was unable to deal with graveyard hate. Especially, predominant graveyard hate.
I don´t think, that Faerie decks make us any problem. The reasons for it are, that they have most of the times only X/1 bodys and we are playing Flame Jab. So we have kind of a Goblin Sharpshooter against their deck. Furthermore counters are most of the time useless (unless you want to resolve a Seismic Assault, Young Pyromancer or a Liliana), because we have the amazing Loam Engine against them. I played with the classic Creatureless Jundversion against UR "Fae", which should be the most similar deck to the will be UBx Fae. Flame Jab and Loam was just gg against them
I have a small question to the changes through the banlist upgrade. The DRS gave the players a mirage, that they need no more Graveyard hate. Do you think, that players will panik and slam tons of Graveyard Hate in the SB? DRS was nearly never a issue for me and there were not many players, which played more Hate in the Board.
I´m thinking, that the Naya Version got a great boost. The reason for that is, that the Knight is back in business of one of the biggest creatures in the format. Maybe I put the deck together and test it and report then here.
The Loam based decks were never populat (sadly) because many people can´t see, how amazing the deck is and how much fun it is to play with it.
Sencerly,
Kathal
PS: Sorry for my bad english.
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I agree that RiP is the only real problem card as far as graveyard hate. Leyline is always a post-board card. If it comes down turn 1, you can always play around it (either until you remove it or just play without the use of your 'yard). Cage doesn't stop Life from the Loam thankfully but it does hit Retrace. Tormod's Crypt and the other one-and-done graveyard hate cards aren't that bad either. Sandbagging an extra Loam or draw spell can pull you back from them. RiP is thankfully hit by Abrupt Decay (which I don't have access to in my RUG deck... :frown:) and I don't see a ton of it getting played. Though that may change. There is always Maelstrom Pulse as well. Counter spells or Enchantment hate from the SB are other options. I guess what I'm getting at is that the grave hate is annoying, but we have outs to it all. It'd be kind of silly for us not to expect it to come in.
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Life of the Loam
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Flame Jab
3 Seismic Assault
4 Faithless Looting
3 Mulch
2 Fir-lit Thicket
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Ragging Ravine
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Sacred Foundry
5 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
It let's you get all the fun stuff with Seismic/Countryside/Flame Jab, but gives you a ghost quarter interaction that can just keep people from playing against you. It's a little slow so out of the board I'm thinking some number of Path to Exile, and Anger of the Gods or something comparable to shore up aggressive beatdown strategies.
That is a very neat list and idea. I like it a lot. I am gonna take some time to check it out and see if I can come up with any suggestions. But I like it a lot so far. It is like hate bears meets aggro loam. Really neat idea. I am think with Nacatl being unbanned that anger of the gods may be the better option seeing as it wipes the board of zoo and doesn't leave creatures behind to grow the goyf.