What about the crappy fetches that ETB tapped? Would those be worth looking into? I'm talking about Evolving Wilds and friends.
Graven Cairns is interesting, maybe I can get 1 or 2. I figure that Smallpox and Faithless Looting put enough lands in the graveyard, plus Loam dredge, so from goldfishing, right now I'm not having too much trouble filling the graveyard. Also, why an extra Flame Jab over Lightning Bolt? Also, how do you feel about Noxious Revival?
Kher Keep was just another random land I thought might be useful. I'll let you know how the ascension lists works when I test it out. I'm gonna start with a more basic list then try the ascension flame jab combo after I get a feel for the deck. This is what I'm thinking of starting with.
What about the crappy fetches that ETB tapped? Would those be worth looking into? I'm talking about Evolving Wilds and friends.
Graven Cairns is interesting, maybe I can get 1 or 2. I figure that Smallpox and Faithless Looting put enough lands in the graveyard, plus Loam dredge, so from goldfishing, right now I'm not having too much trouble filling the graveyard. Also, why an extra Flame Jab over Lightning Bolt? Also, how do you feel about Noxious Revival?
I don't really like noxious revival but I understand why you would play it. I suggest the additional flame jab and raven's crime because all the lands you are loaming back end up giving you additional value should you not come by an assault easily. It still gives us the chance to control the board with what we have without relying on assault for everything. Especially since it allows up to answer a revoker naming assault. Also when dredged away you still get value out of a flame jab, whereas bolt is just a dead card after being dredged.
I don't think there has been a consensus on either of them. I prefer Ghost Quarter personally though. It interacts with tron prior to them getting all of their pieces. It is also useful in color fixing your own lands in a pinch. Both of them are bad against mono colored decks. Tec Edge is a better against the GBx decks though. So it depends on your meta. If you get Ghost Quarter online with Loam against a deck that doesn't have a ton of basics, you can strip mine their mana base in the late game. A lot of the reasons I like GQ is for the closet case value engines it generates over Tec Edge but they're both fine cards.
I certainly favor ghost quarter since if you wreck their hand with raven's crime and start thinning the land out of their deck they are more likely to get mana screwed. If they are playing multiple colors targeting the lands that produce the color you are mainly concerned with is definitely a decent game plan. As Nick said, it is definitely the better option against tron since you can immediately cripple their game plan and shut them down.
After some testing this is what I'm moving towards. Eternal Witness has been great to get Assaults back, while Countryside Crusher just seems very lackluster as a 3 drop. There are a lot of games I can just go aggro and finish someone off with Kird/GG/Pyro. I definitely want to add another low cc creature, and Rakdos Cackler might be it until I can get some goyfs.
Those all seem like sweet choices. I'm thinking more along the lines of another 2 power 1 drop because being able to get 2 or 3 of them swinging makes a quick clock. Although there are some good 2 drops that would fill out the curve nicely.
1 drops Rakdos Cackler - Not being able to block sucks Experiment One - Might not be enough creatures to support him Grim Lavamancer - Could be anti-synergistic Goblin Bushwhacker - Might be sweet with Pyromancer, but could be a dead card more often than not(but that's what faithless looting is for
2 drops Burning-Tree Emissary - Leads to some real explosive plays early game, and not necessarily dead later on Flinthoof Boar - Might be pretty good because it's a 2 drop and a 3 drop Stormblood Berserker - Great evasion plus good with flame jab/bolt and the 1 drops Scavenging Ooze - Havn't really played with him to know whether he would be a good beater, but he can seriously hate on some decks and be a great late game finisher after we dredge our own creatures. Also he's a descent counter against goyf
Maybe the direction this version should go is white for a kind of zoo loam hybrid. White would add loam lion, knight of the reliquary, and a lot of other support.
I think with flame jabs and loam, kiln fiend seems like a great choice. Almost auto win if on turn 4 you are pitching lands to flame jab a blocker or 2 away.
Yeah didn't even think about flame jab I'll definitely test them out tonight. As for what to cut maybe 1-2 gitaxian probe, possibly go down to 22 lands although I'd rather not, 1 eternal witness, or either a flame jab/faithless looting. Not entirely sure though.
Yeah didn't even think about flame jab I'll definitely test them out tonight. As for what to cut maybe 1-2 gitaxian probe, possibly go down to 22 lands although I'd rather not, 1 eternal witness, or either a flame jab/faithless looting. Not entirely sure though.
Given the nature of your list I would drop 1 assault and 2 eternal witness for 3 kiln fiend. If you are on the aggro plan, you probably don't need assault so much. But if you get held off the aggro plan assault is still a nice card to draw in to.
I like this deck quite a bit and really want to expand to another color as RG just isn't good enough without goyf. It's either between blue for delver goblin guide pyromancer snapcaster, or white for steppe lynx knight of the reliquary. White would be more aggressive, and blue would be more focused on spells.
I like this deck quite a bit and really want to expand to another color as RG just isn't good enough without goyf. It's either between blue for delver goblin guide pyromancer snapcaster, or white for steppe lynx knight of the reliquary. White would be more aggressive, and blue would be more focused on spells.
I like black for raven's crime, smallpox and liliana of the veil. But I think white would be the better splash. Nick has a lot of luck with his RUG list though. It really depends on flavor, what do you prefer?
My RUG deck is pretty reliant on Goyf to put up a decent defense and close out games. So that probably won't work out for what you're looking for. I'd say work on a Naya version. I think it could be strong but I haven't gotten around to working on anything more than some rough drafts. Knight of the Reliquary just seems too good there though.
I would cut helix completely and add 4 loam lion. Then change the treetop for stomping ground. Maybe cut 1 assault for a singleton waves of aggression. If you're using steppe lynx you want land drops so you'll be dropping more land in which case that card could be nuts to close out a game. Maybe just test that. Lightning helix kinda changes your decks dynamic a little more in the boros landfall route.
Would dropping the guides and going 4x ape 4x lion be the way to go? Goblin guide is awesome but giving free cards to your opponent kind of sucks, and it adds some resilience to pyroclasm. I'll test waves of aggression although 5 mana is a lot, it likely wins the game on the spot.
I've also tested this pyromancer loam list and it definitely has some cool interactions like being able to put counters on ascension with just 2 flame jabs, but it's rather clunky.
Would dropping the guides and going 4x ape 4x lion be the way to go? Goblin guide is awesome but giving free cards to your opponent kind of sucks, and it adds some resilience to pyroclasm. I'll test waves of aggression although 5 mana is a lot, it likely wins the game on the spot.
As a 1 of it would literally be a silver bullet game winner if it goes late game. Swinging with a knight and zoo animals twice is just back breaking and could clear your opponents board at the very least. Dropping guides makes playing pyroclasm main deck better since all your creatures would have 3+ toughness.
Graven Cairns is interesting, maybe I can get 1 or 2. I figure that Smallpox and Faithless Looting put enough lands in the graveyard, plus Loam dredge, so from goldfishing, right now I'm not having too much trouble filling the graveyard. Also, why an extra Flame Jab over Lightning Bolt? Also, how do you feel about Noxious Revival?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Flame Jab
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
3 Countryside Crusher
1 Eternal Witness
Lands 22
4 Arid Mesa
4 Stomping Ground
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Treetop Village
1 Raging Ravine
I don't really like noxious revival but I understand why you would play it. I suggest the additional flame jab and raven's crime because all the lands you are loaming back end up giving you additional value should you not come by an assault easily. It still gives us the chance to control the board with what we have without relying on assault for everything. Especially since it allows up to answer a revoker naming assault. Also when dredged away you still get value out of a flame jab, whereas bolt is just a dead card after being dredged.
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Flame Jab
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
2 Eternal Witness
Lands 23
4 Arid Mesa
4 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
5 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Treetop Village
1 Raging Ravine
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Torpor Orb
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Nature's Claim
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Dismember
1 Combust
1 Destructive Revelry
1 drops
Rakdos Cackler - Not being able to block sucks
Experiment One - Might not be enough creatures to support him
Grim Lavamancer - Could be anti-synergistic
Goblin Bushwhacker - Might be sweet with Pyromancer, but could be a dead card more often than not(but that's what faithless looting is for
2 drops
Burning-Tree Emissary - Leads to some real explosive plays early game, and not necessarily dead later on
Flinthoof Boar - Might be pretty good because it's a 2 drop and a 3 drop
Stormblood Berserker - Great evasion plus good with flame jab/bolt and the 1 drops
Scavenging Ooze - Havn't really played with him to know whether he would be a good beater, but he can seriously hate on some decks and be a great late game finisher after we dredge our own creatures. Also he's a descent counter against goyf
Maybe the direction this version should go is white for a kind of zoo loam hybrid. White would add loam lion, knight of the reliquary, and a lot of other support.
Given the nature of your list I would drop 1 assault and 2 eternal witness for 3 kiln fiend. If you are on the aggro plan, you probably don't need assault so much. But if you get held off the aggro plan assault is still a nice card to draw in to.
I like black for raven's crime, smallpox and liliana of the veil. But I think white would be the better splash. Nick has a lot of luck with his RUG list though. It really depends on flavor, what do you prefer?
3 Faithless Looting
2 Flame Jab
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
Creatures 13
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Eternal Witness
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Scared Foundry
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Rugged Prairie
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Raging Ravine
I would cut helix completely and add 4 loam lion. Then change the treetop for stomping ground. Maybe cut 1 assault for a singleton waves of aggression. If you're using steppe lynx you want land drops so you'll be dropping more land in which case that card could be nuts to close out a game. Maybe just test that. Lightning helix kinda changes your decks dynamic a little more in the boros landfall route.
I've also tested this pyromancer loam list and it definitely has some cool interactions like being able to put counters on ascension with just 2 flame jabs, but it's rather clunky.
4 Faithless Looting
4 Flame Jab
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Manamorphose
2 Pyroclasm
4 Young Pyromancer
Lands 23
4 Arid Mesa
4 Stomping Ground
8 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
As a 1 of it would literally be a silver bullet game winner if it goes late game. Swinging with a knight and zoo animals twice is just back breaking and could clear your opponents board at the very least. Dropping guides makes playing pyroclasm main deck better since all your creatures would have 3+ toughness.
3 Faithless Looting
2 Flame Jab
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
Creatures 16
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Stomping Ground
2 Scared Foundry
1 Temple Garden
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Raging Ravine
3 Path to Exile
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Torpor Orb
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Back to Nature
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter