As for the Commune the Gods comment... I think that it could potentially be good, maybe if the deck is running more creatures or maybe lots of enchantments in the sideboard. Outside of that case, I feel like it is just a little too slow. Looting fulfills a similar role, but is a possible T1 play, while also having the benefit of having flashback and the ability of pitching two cards from our hand and gaining two cards.
Here is my list, so that people can see why I make the claims I do. As for possible changes... I am considering going for the creature-heavy build, with Tarmogoyf and Bob/Pain Seer, but Young Pyromancer is really making me think heavily against it. It would also make me want to run a few more instants other than Abrupt Decay, so that we can more consistently fuel the Goyfs.
To prevent certain comments like "MOAR LILI'S" I am on a budget, and I currently have access to two lili's, so I figured two is better than none.
Most of my testing so far has been against Burn, Affinity, Small-Zoo, UR Delver, American Control and Melira Pod. I feel weak against Affinity and Burn, hence the sideboard being heavily geared towards those decks.
Small-Zoo tends to be a pretty even match-up from what I can see. Pod can be hard, but if I hit a Flame Jab or Seismic it's mostly in my hands. Burn is terribly difficult, which is why I decided to test the Coursers. UR Delver and American go about the same, and they are heavily lopsided in my favor.
So, I've noticed that not many people have commented on Courser of Kruphix. It's absolutely insane in the deck. I've noticed that I tend to deal a lot of damage to myself, and this negates a decent amount of that damage. Courser provides so much utility in the deck that it's just almost not worth playing the deck without it. It is a 2/4, so it can live through Anger, bolt, helix, Nacatl, and blocks a number of other smaller creatures. Another thing to note, that I noticed someone said earlier, was that the revealing the top of our library actually helps us a lot. It gives us knowledge on if we want to draw or dredge so that we don't miss something like a much needed Decay or Seismic. While on the flip side, it allows us to mill those cards away with dredge if they are dead. One last thing about Courser, that seems fairly obvious, but sometimes people forget, we can play land off the top instead of from our hand, so that we can get access to more cards. That part of Courser is basically just draw a card if there is a land on top. It's absolutely crazy how good this card is in Loam.
The only problem I've run into with it is that I believe I'm not running enough fetches or shocks, and I could use maybe one more filter. Needing to be able to cast Inquisition of Kozilek on T1, then Young Pyromancer, then Courser of Kruphix, while having the capability of a T4 Seismic Assault is relatively difficult.
One last comment before I sign off, Quicksand is secret tech. I love it in most match-ups. It hits so much in most decks. The colorless does hurt, but I think that it's worth it.
Disclaimer, I have not tested any of the other color combos for the deck, so I'm not saying that this is the best list out there, but I do REALLY like Courser.
Lately I have been looking for some way to gain life. WUR control, which is supposed to be a really good matchup (raven's crime + loam usually is enought)turned to be a nightmare when he realizes that burning our face is actually a very good gameplan. Burn is almost impossible.
Syphon Life seems too slow and expensive, ofen we can't afford to spend 1bb for 2 life when we are facing burn spells and we have to pay attention to the board to deal with creatures.
Courser is good at gain life at the same time that we develope our board and generates card advantage, but it doesn't gain life quickly and overload our mana base badly if we want to be able to retrace the spells that we need, play assault, play tectonic edge... every time we need it. Also, when facing remand, is difficult to put courser on the table.
The baloth in the SB doesn't always make it, resolving a 4 mana spell through pesmission is rough and burn ofen have a skullcrack waiting fot it.
I have to admit that I haven't test Quicksand, but lose a landrop to deal with a small guy doesn't seem a big deal when we have things like assault, flame jab and decay. Also the mana base is too
Commune with the gods seems fine, but what do you cut?
PS: Sorry about my bad english
Read back a page. I had already brought this up and looked into Bow of Nylea as a source of repeatable life gain. I played vs Burn a couple times with it and every time I cast it I was able to stabilize and win. It has so much utility in this deck that it is ridiculous.
Looking into Courser it seems to add a lot of utility to our deck. Letting us know when to dredge, loot, fetch and tings like that seems to be a great advantage for us even if the opponent can see what we are getting next. It'll probably end up in our yard the next turn anyways so they're going to see it eventually!
If I were to guess, Courser should be in a more midrande shell right? Playing the creatureless version with Young Pyro's may not warrant enough spells if we have to drop 3-4 of them for the Coursers, but since they are recurrable I'm not that worried.
On the one hand courser seems very good, on the other hand it seems to not go well with smallpox. So it comes down to smallpox vs courser of kruphix... though call. I think i'd rather keep pox but maybe i'm wrong.
On the one hand courser seems very good, on the other hand it seems to not go well with smallpox. So it comes down to smallpox vs courser of kruphix... though call. I think i'd rather keep pox but maybe i'm wrong.
Have you been having success with Smallpox? I first tried it out in a creatureless build but could never seem to get there in games because of the loss in tempo it game me. I was always just that [i]one land[i] too short to make the best plays. Once I added the Young Pyromancers it started to get better, but then the reduction of burn spells seemed like I missed them a bit too often. The Pyromancers never seemed to represent a big enough threat to really pressure people into focusing on them instead of disrupting the Assualt-Loam engine, so I tried to move to a more creature centric build that used the graveyard and the Loam engine. I have had some success with it, but then Blood moon too over my meta and it seemed unplayable for a time. I have had by far the most success with the creature build compared to anything else which is why I ask. Do you have a list you have been using that I could compare mine with?
EDIT: -1 graven cairns, -1 treetop village, +1 copperline gorge, +1 bojuka bog, mono green non basics are bad for mana.
If blood moon was a thing in my meta i could swap treetop for a 2nd forest.
Smallpox has been fine, it really helps having more self discard to ditch lingering souls when i don't have white or when vengeful pharaoh ends up in my hand. I've won many games with souls/pyro, i'd say 50/50 with tokens vs assault.
Not hitting with commune with the gods seems awful, you basically do nothing for a turn just to fill up the grave. For my part i haven't had any trouble filling my grave, and with things like pox and loam you at least do something in the process. Besides i have no idea what i would cut for them.
If blood moon was a thing in my meta i could swap treetop for a 2nd forest.
Smallpox has been fine, it really helps having more self discard to ditch lingering souls when i don't have white or when vengeful pharaoh ends up in my hand. I've won many games with souls/pyro, i'd say 50/50 with tokens vs assault.
Ok thanks for the list. I never even thought of the Vengeful Pharoh. I see you're only running 1 fetchable white source too, but I'm assuming this have been working out for you right? Right now I only have a playset of Catacombs and Marsh Flats, so the I am able to grab the white, but your Arid Mesas seem to give a bit more value in this deck seeing as my land base will be taking 2-3 more damage per game than yours.
Is there any reason for the 3 Smallpox and not 4? I just feel as though you may not have one in your opening hand or draw and miss the opportunity to gain a tempo advantage. Or do you see them often enough that it doesn't really matter?
May last question is on the 25 lands. That is less, speaking to the traditional 27-28 that some successful builds have ran before. Any reason for this? (aka do you still have enough to Loam to the full potential each time?)
Yeah i really like arid mesa, this gives me a way to fetch my basic mountain when i have every color i need but the 3rd red source for assault. I prefer diversity in my fetches. One white fetchable source has been working, in many games i don't even need it.
3 pox is because i found having multiple kind of awkward, smallpoxing after smallpoxing can make the game hard for me as well, especially if i don't have loam. 3 is good enough.
As for the 25 lands many pyromancer lists run about that amount. 27 is okay with bob, crusher and courser since you'll see more of your deck but without them i think 25 is fine, i haven't been lacking lands yet.
Yeah i really like arid mesa, this gives me a way to fetch my basic mountain when i have every color i need but the 3rd red source for assault. I prefer diversity in my fetches. One white fetchable source has been working, in many games i don't even need it.
3 pox is because i found having multiple kind of awkward, smallpoxing after smallpoxing can make the game hard for me as well, especially if i don't have loam. 3 is good enough.
As for the 25 lands many pyromancer lists run about that amount. 27 is okay with bob, crusher and courser since you'll see more of your deck but without them i think 25 is fine, i haven't been lacking lands yet.
Ok cool. I'm going to be looking into some of the differences in your list and mine, and seeing what changes I can make over the next week. I'll also test Commune with the Gods in a bunch of match ups and get back to people about it.
So i'm thinking of trying the courser of kruphix version, i feel the deck could use some more digging. I'll have to let go of smallpox, the card is sometimes amazing and gives free wins and sometimes it is pretty dead, namely versus pod (mid-late game), which is everywhere in my meta. I like that courser just seems more stable and consistent rather than hit or miss. Also taking out poxes changes nothing for young pyro, pox doesn't really count as a sorcery in the deck because you sac the token when pox resolves. I'll do some testing with courser and see if i like it. Arguments in its favor are convincing.
I would test it in a naya focused build. It would at least give you access to ajani and lightning helix should you choose to run them. Maybe splash a fetchble black shock land for flashback on souls if you wanted to run them.
Ran the following list yesterday and went 4-1 to take second place yesterday.
Round 1: Lost in 3 to Scapeshift. He ended up getting first. Thought about having two copies of Slaughter Games in the SB but decided against it in the end. May need to rethink this.
Round 2: B/g Zombies. Won in 3. Had Courser of Kruphix in the SB which helped a lot in this match up.
Round 3: W/b Tokens. Won in 2. Loam engine too strong with either Assult or Flame Jab.
Round 4: Affinity. Won in 3. Ancient Grudges and sweepers out of the SB helped me win this match up.
Round 5: Death and Taxes. Won in 2. Depending on the opening hand, this could have done either way. He was not playing Mirran Crusader or swords. If he had, I think he may have won. I have seen these style of decks also adept Green for Scavening Ooze. He was playing a mono-white version.
Below is my list. It is more traditional Jund color version.
The deck is a blast to play even though I made numerous mistakes with missed triggers and not dredging when I should. That will come with time but overall, satisfied with my performance since it was the first time I have played the deck semicompetively. Would be willing to answer questions. Any comments are welcome.
Alright maybe courser would be better in naya. The few games i played with courser he just eats all the removal. This also weakens my huntmaster sideboard plan because when the opp sees courser he doesn't side out removal. He'd be better along KotR and friends rather than the pyro version. I'll keep my poxes for now.
How's Countryside Crusher been working for you? I always found him rather clunky in my testing but I haven't touched him in a long time. I like having as few 3-drops in the deck to keep consistency up and having him, with Liliana and Assault lead to slow hands and less pressure.
My store has been transitioning to more players and more competitive decks (finally!). So I'm going to be switching back to MB Goblin Guides instead of the more grindy Young Pyromancer. I'll see how that goes this Wednesday. Unless I feel like running my Wildfire deck... Regardless, eventually I will give the deck a run with the changes and let you guys know how it goes.
Has anyone considered running Blood Moon main deck? I have been toying with the idea since I was put into a corner playing 4C Gifts and think if we run a couple mana dorks it might be doable.
If wooded foothills does get reprinted I think blood moon would be fine since it would increase the chance of finding your basic forest alongside catacombs to find your basic swamp or forest.
It's potentially possible but I've lost to Blood Moon while piloting this deck. We run so many non-basics and other color intensive cards that it makes Blood Moon backbreaking against us. You could tailor a deck to be primarily GR and run it main and probably get some decent mileage out of it in a more competitive environment. Though I think going two colors means foregoing a lot of powerful cards that are gained by splashing another color.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
RUG Forever A Loam
Counter CatUWRG
RGTitan Fall
QuestSteelUW
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Here is my list, so that people can see why I make the claims I do. As for possible changes... I am considering going for the creature-heavy build, with Tarmogoyf and Bob/Pain Seer, but Young Pyromancer is really making me think heavily against it. It would also make me want to run a few more instants other than Abrupt Decay, so that we can more consistently fuel the Goyfs.
To prevent certain comments like "MOAR LILI'S" I am on a budget, and I currently have access to two lili's, so I figured two is better than none.
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Young Pyromancer
Sorcery: 18
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Life From the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
1 Syphon Life
Instant: 3
3 Abrupt Decay
Enchantment: 3
3 Seismic Assault
Planeswalker: 2
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 26
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Raging Ravine
2 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Graven Cairns
2 Twilight Mire
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Quicksand
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Syphon Life
1 Damnation
1 Ghost Quarter
Most of my testing so far has been against Burn, Affinity, Small-Zoo, UR Delver, American Control and Melira Pod. I feel weak against Affinity and Burn, hence the sideboard being heavily geared towards those decks.
Small-Zoo tends to be a pretty even match-up from what I can see.
Pod can be hard, but if I hit a Flame Jab or Seismic it's mostly in my hands.
Burn is terribly difficult, which is why I decided to test the Coursers.
UR Delver and American go about the same, and they are heavily lopsided in my favor.
So, I've noticed that not many people have commented on Courser of Kruphix. It's absolutely insane in the deck. I've noticed that I tend to deal a lot of damage to myself, and this negates a decent amount of that damage. Courser provides so much utility in the deck that it's just almost not worth playing the deck without it. It is a 2/4, so it can live through Anger, bolt, helix, Nacatl, and blocks a number of other smaller creatures. Another thing to note, that I noticed someone said earlier, was that the revealing the top of our library actually helps us a lot. It gives us knowledge on if we want to draw or dredge so that we don't miss something like a much needed Decay or Seismic. While on the flip side, it allows us to mill those cards away with dredge if they are dead. One last thing about Courser, that seems fairly obvious, but sometimes people forget, we can play land off the top instead of from our hand, so that we can get access to more cards. That part of Courser is basically just draw a card if there is a land on top. It's absolutely crazy how good this card is in Loam.
The only problem I've run into with it is that I believe I'm not running enough fetches or shocks, and I could use maybe one more filter. Needing to be able to cast Inquisition of Kozilek on T1, then Young Pyromancer, then Courser of Kruphix, while having the capability of a T4 Seismic Assault is relatively difficult.
One last comment before I sign off, Quicksand is secret tech. I love it in most match-ups. It hits so much in most decks. The colorless does hurt, but I think that it's worth it.
Disclaimer, I have not tested any of the other color combos for the deck, so I'm not saying that this is the best list out there, but I do REALLY like Courser.
Current Modern:
BRGAssault LoamBRG
WUKrark Eggs(Balls of Steel)WU
Current EDH:
GSeshiro SnakesG//GEzuri ElvesG
WUBRGHorde of PlaneswalkersWUBRG
UBRNekusar the MindwheelerUBR
WUGRoon FlickerWUG
Read back a page. I had already brought this up and looked into Bow of Nylea as a source of repeatable life gain. I played vs Burn a couple times with it and every time I cast it I was able to stabilize and win. It has so much utility in this deck that it is ridiculous.
Looking into Courser it seems to add a lot of utility to our deck. Letting us know when to dredge, loot, fetch and tings like that seems to be a great advantage for us even if the opponent can see what we are getting next. It'll probably end up in our yard the next turn anyways so they're going to see it eventually!
If I were to guess, Courser should be in a more midrande shell right? Playing the creatureless version with Young Pyro's may not warrant enough spells if we have to drop 3-4 of them for the Coursers, but since they are recurrable I'm not that worried.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Have you been having success with Smallpox? I first tried it out in a creatureless build but could never seem to get there in games because of the loss in tempo it game me. I was always just that [i]one land[i] too short to make the best plays. Once I added the Young Pyromancers it started to get better, but then the reduction of burn spells seemed like I missed them a bit too often. The Pyromancers never seemed to represent a big enough threat to really pressure people into focusing on them instead of disrupting the Assualt-Loam engine, so I tried to move to a more creature centric build that used the graveyard and the Loam engine. I have had some success with it, but then Blood moon too over my meta and it seemed unplayable for a time. I have had by far the most success with the creature build compared to anything else which is why I ask. Do you have a list you have been using that I could compare mine with?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Faithless Looting
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
3 Smallpox
4 Life From The Loam
4 Lingering Souls
instants: 5
1 Darkblast
4 Abrupt Decay
enchantments: 3
3 Seismic Assault
creatures: 5
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
lands: 25
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
1 Graven Cairns
2 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Raging Ravine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Duress
2 Anger Of The Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Bow of Nylea
EDIT: -1 graven cairns, -1 treetop village, +1 copperline gorge, +1 bojuka bog, mono green non basics are bad for mana.
If blood moon was a thing in my meta i could swap treetop for a 2nd forest.
Smallpox has been fine, it really helps having more self discard to ditch lingering souls when i don't have white or when vengeful pharaoh ends up in my hand. I've won many games with souls/pyro, i'd say 50/50 with tokens vs assault.
Ok thanks for the list. I never even thought of the Vengeful Pharoh. I see you're only running 1 fetchable white source too, but I'm assuming this have been working out for you right? Right now I only have a playset of Catacombs and Marsh Flats, so the I am able to grab the white, but your Arid Mesas seem to give a bit more value in this deck seeing as my land base will be taking 2-3 more damage per game than yours.
Is there any reason for the 3 Smallpox and not 4? I just feel as though you may not have one in your opening hand or draw and miss the opportunity to gain a tempo advantage. Or do you see them often enough that it doesn't really matter?
May last question is on the 25 lands. That is less, speaking to the traditional 27-28 that some successful builds have ran before. Any reason for this? (aka do you still have enough to Loam to the full potential each time?)
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
3 pox is because i found having multiple kind of awkward, smallpoxing after smallpoxing can make the game hard for me as well, especially if i don't have loam. 3 is good enough.
As for the 25 lands many pyromancer lists run about that amount. 27 is okay with bob, crusher and courser since you'll see more of your deck but without them i think 25 is fine, i haven't been lacking lands yet.
Ok cool. I'm going to be looking into some of the differences in your list and mine, and seeing what changes I can make over the next week. I'll also test Commune with the Gods in a bunch of match ups and get back to people about it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Round 1: Lost in 3 to Scapeshift. He ended up getting first. Thought about having two copies of Slaughter Games in the SB but decided against it in the end. May need to rethink this.
Round 2: B/g Zombies. Won in 3. Had Courser of Kruphix in the SB which helped a lot in this match up.
Round 3: W/b Tokens. Won in 2. Loam engine too strong with either Assult or Flame Jab.
Round 4: Affinity. Won in 3. Ancient Grudges and sweepers out of the SB helped me win this match up.
Round 5: Death and Taxes. Won in 2. Depending on the opening hand, this could have done either way. He was not playing Mirran Crusader or swords. If he had, I think he may have won. I have seen these style of decks also adept Green for Scavening Ooze. He was playing a mono-white version.
Below is my list. It is more traditional Jund color version.
4 Faithless Looting
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
3 Seismic Assault
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Worm Harvest
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Countryside Crusher
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
2 Graven Cairns
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Raging Ravine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Jund Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Torpor Orb
1 Raven's Crime
1 Maelstrom Pulse
The deck is a blast to play even though I made numerous mistakes with missed triggers and not dredging when I should. That will come with time but overall, satisfied with my performance since it was the first time I have played the deck semicompetively. Would be willing to answer questions. Any comments are welcome.
Thanks.
My store has been transitioning to more players and more competitive decks (finally!). So I'm going to be switching back to MB Goblin Guides instead of the more grindy Young Pyromancer. I'll see how that goes this Wednesday. Unless I feel like running my Wildfire deck... Regardless, eventually I will give the deck a run with the changes and let you guys know how it goes.