Well, played RUG Loam at my LGS this evening to a dismal 1-2 in a tourney of 8 people. The games I won, I crushed but I think I just forgot how to mulligan properly. I kept some kind of loose hands and got punished for it. I can post more info on the evening but it isn't really all that exciting. I either had control into the combo and won, or I didn't see jack and lost. Played against BW Tokens, 5 color Defenders?, and MonoG Devotion Combo. Lost to Tokens and Devotion. The deck feels powerful still, just my poor piloting.
Unfortunate to hear. Have you tried Young Pyromancer in your build? I've found it to be quite powerful in spell heavy builds. It can be aggressive, and defensive at the same time. I've been considering trying out some RUG lists I'll probably post a rough draft soon.
I dropped the morphs out of this lists and added commute with the gods as well as an extra fire-lit Thicket and this rg list is running extremely fast. I'm just now getting into modern and have been playing the Jund version of assault Loam -goyf +dryads, this version seems to just run way faster and the communes help fill the yard up faster. I really like the deck and hope to make it a competitor.
I had kind of forgotten about that list. I had given up on it, then found Commune with the Gods a little bit later. I didn't even give a second thought to using it in an Pyromancer Ascension build. I think with Commune with the Gods you could probably run 3 Pyromancer Ascension. Not sure if Tarmogoyf has a spot in the deck, but it could be alright with Commune pumping it up and finding it.
I run ravings and at instant speed you can completely blank surgicals on your loams if necessary. With loam you tend to have quite a few cards in hand so the odds of discarding necessary cards is very unlikely.
I played in a small modern tournament last night, running the creatureless Jund version.
0-2 vs Jund
1-2 vs affinity
Bye
I was kind of bummed, against Jund I poxed away the first goyf and seared his 2 bob's then fell to the second goyf. Never got the engine going. Second game, I played my lands out wrong and was sick without a green source.
I won game 1 against affinity with a t3 assault. Game 2 I just got ran over. Game 3 should have been mine but I dredged at the wrong time and binned my assault.
Of anyone is planning to pick up this deck in general I feel you want to get quite a good amount of practice in. I've goldfished mine a lot because there is no modern players at my lgs. Had to drive out of town for this small tournament. Can some of you guys go over your rules when playing the deck?
Seared away creatures? Not sure what you used there. Searing blaze? Just bad. If you want particular match up advice I have been piloting it for 5 months now. Just let me know what match ups. Affinity is an odd 1 to have trouble with. All of our flame jabs are very live against them and our assault is usually game over.
Flame Jab is what I used just can't ever remember the name. Posting from my phone so autocorrects plague my posts. He sided in spellskites which I thought were awkward for me to try and play around. Wondering mainly about the Jund match up. Seems like we grow goyf really fast with discard and dredging/digging.
Flame Jab is what I used just can't ever remember the name. Posting from my phone so autocorrects plague my posts. He sided in spellskites which I thought were awkward for me to try and play around. Wondering mainly about the Jund match up. Seems like we grow goyf really fast with discard and dredging/digging.
Goyf Is usually where smallpox and liliana come to the rescue for us. We use flame jab to keep their field clear otherwise, then hit the goyf with sac effects. Because they also run decent disruption this can be a hard match up. If you are concerned with goyf then cards like dismember, go for the throat can be put into your board. There is definitely room. Engineered explosives can also be an answer for the goyf. Hitting a spellskit twice with assault deals with the problem so that shouldn't take you too long to handle. If you see a skite you can always build up land in hand that way you can handle the skite and then whatever other creature they drop. The good thing there is that skite takes up a turn of your opponents and allows you time to dig for assault or other answers you may need to handle whatever it is they are throwing at you. It seems like you just need practice in play testing. Maybe you can befriend a couple people who play modern and they would be interested in helping you grind out a bit. Against jund it is probably correct to not dredge out your deck until you do have a lock going with assault or liliana since that only grows the goyf as we give the enchantment and planewalker they need for an extra 2 points. The good thing is we don't have creatures so if they are relying on our creatures we can keep them back. Also hitting a goyf twice off assault and then casting life from the loam to get back lands will help if they have no land in their yard. Should that be an option to shrink a goyf to 4 toughness it will then die to the 4 damage previously dealt to it. Think of things like that and be creative as jund is a very disruptive deck to play against. You can also try ensnaring bridge to keep them back why you assemble your board. If you feel I missed anything let me know and I can hopefully help you
You can also attempt at going with Haakon, stromgald scourge as a 3 of creature in your list and using nameless innervision as a double casting of that will usually kill a goyf. On the flipside it is sadly a tribal card and will also grow a goyf, 4 mana is somewhat our sweet spot as it allows us to cast life from the loam twice in a turn, if you are running innervision you can cast that twice in a turn after playing haakon from your yard. There is a lot of room for creative and innovative thought as the primer suggests. Don't be afraid to try something new that may work. Bring any new ideas to the page here and I will happily test them with you.
I just picked up a couple of Haakon's, and none of the shops around had Nameless inversion so I ordered some up. I figured that would be a great combo out of the sb considering the Jund deck sided out of creature removal g2. I'll try and find some people to test soon just to get games in to learn the deck. Thanks
I just picked up a couple of Haakon's, and none of the shops around had Nameless inversion so I ordered some up. I figured that would be a great combo out of the sb considering the Jund deck sided out of creature removal g2. I'll try and find some people to test soon just to get games in to learn the deck. Thanks
Always here. I am addicted to this site, I love talking magic. Post here or PM whenever and I will most likely respond within an hour or 2. I definitely think haakon, inversion is strong enough to be main board. I just tried making changes and I wasn't all that happy with them. I think the extra dig in the form of desperate ravings it really good and I tried to get rid of it but went right back.
Haakon + Inversion is better in mainboard. If the opponent has any gravehate in side, he'll side it in against us. You don't want to increase your grave reliance at that point.
Lotleth Troll is something I've been looking at a bit lately. It seems like it could fit the deck, you can pitch Haakon to it, the regeneration is cheap and if you play Imp like I do, he can also be binned for +1/+1 when there's nothing that needs to be deathtouched.
You'd have to retool the deck pretty radically to make Lotleth Troll good. He does have moderate synergy with Haakon but outside of that, he can't pitch spells or lands. So you'll be looking at a 2/1 or 3/2 regen'ing trampler. Which isn't bad but isn't amazing either.
Dredge outside of Loam is pretty mediocre to be honest. The reason Loam is good is because with an Assault in play, there are practically no other cards better than Loam and you can draw it every turn. Dredge in this deck doesn't read "fill your yard for value" it reads "draw 1G: 6 damage" every turn. Haakon rides the line of playable here because he gets value off of actions you'd already be playing in the deck. Imp just doesn't do enough to justify play here in my opinion.
If you are building your deck to use him, then you should probably be running him MB. Though the benefit of most decks taking out their removal against the creatureless deck and you bringing in creatures is not to be underestimated. I could see the deck being set up to benefit from both lines of though.
Hey, y'all, I run Borborygmos Reanimator and started a separate thread, but I figured I might post a list here and get your thoughts. If you'd rather me keep this archetype in a separate thread, no problem - just let me know.
Here's a list I played to a 4-0 finish at my LGS, beating Infect, Melira Pod, Burn, and BG Rock:
The mana is surprisingly decent for a deck that plays Liliana AND Ajani. Three basics helps mitigate life loss from lands. I'm a little concerned about the three enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands, though. Since I'm not as red-heavy as the Assault Loam build, I can't run Flame Jab. It may be worth trying to tweak the list to accommodate that card.
We can definitely compete with Burn and Aggro in game 1. Granted, I was down to 1 life, but it wasn't 0. Dragon's Claw and Timely Reinforcements were all-stars in game 2, especially when you play the latter and animate Elesh Norn. Sick game.
Smallpox seems unnecessary in your list. I know it can be a blow out, but the opportunities where that comes up are few and far between, and with only 2 copies in the deck, it hardly seems worth it. I'd say cut it for 3 MB Pyroclasm as you don't have any real early interaction until you hit 3 mana and I don't think Lingering Souls or Liliana is going to stabilize you against Affinity. Lightning Bolts should probably be Flame Jabs, since you are going more for a heavy self-mill theme. Mulch would probably be a good inclusion like you were thinking. The only slots I really see it fitting in are either cutting Lingering Souls for it or shaving off some numbers from other cards. Like, do you really have to have 4 Unburial Rites if reanimating one of your creatures will end the game? Conflagrate might be a bit too cute and could offer up a slot. You could also consider going to 25 lands or 2 Liliana or 3 Lingering Souls. Things like that.
The list looks pretty solid as is though. I'm glad it's working out for you. I've never been keen on the reanimation plan though. Since you have to have the creatures in your graveyard to realistically compete and have to target it with another spell to get value, Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze are much more potent against you.
Random last thought, you may want to look into Maelstrom Pulse in place of Abrupt Decay. You are going to be aiming for a bit higher of a curve anyways, and not being limited to hitting 3cmc or less permanents is slightly more relevant in the current meta than it used to be. It might be worth looking into or not. They are both fine cards.
- Smallpox is probably a bit weaker in my list, you're right. It's harder to make BB on T2 than, say, the creature-less Assault Loam lists, too. I'll try some other removal for them.
- Flame Jab is a great card in this deck. I didn't include it initially because I didn't think the deck, as presently constructed, could support all that R. I do like having some number of Lightning Bolts, though, 'cuz having the ability to kill T1 Deathrite Shamans on the draw or a single-pumped Scavenging Ooze seems right. I'll see what I can do.
- 1 or 2 Mulches are going in. In testing, they've done everything I've wanted: bin cards, get me lands for guaranteed Borborygmos Enraged activations.
- I used to run 3 Unburial Rites and 3 monsters, but I upped each to 4 because I wanted to help ensure that I could animate something. One stray Ooze activation could conceivably lose me the game, so I think maximizing my odds of reanimation is correct.
- Conflagrateis probably too cute, but it definitely won me a couple games on the spot that I wouldn't've otherwise. Gonna try cutting it for a more consistent spell.
- Abrupt Decay has been great for me, but I think having a Maelstrom Pulse in the main is a great idea. It gives me game against Tron, Leyline of the Void (if anyone plays them), and myriad other nasties. It would've gotten me out of a double Goblin Guide mess I faced in that tournament as well.
- I may drop a Liliana of the Veil, as my deck wants to flip into my graveyard a lot. She doesn't do much in the bin. Gonna test it and see how it goes.
Lingering Souls is great when it's good and horrendous when it's bad, so perhaps 3 main and 1 in the side is correct (or just 3 in the 75 - I do run Timely Reinforcements). I'll shuffle that up and see what happens.
While I agree that Lightning Bolt is a good card, I don't know if it is something that you run less that 4 of. If it's filling a useful role in your deck, it is the best card for it. I try not to look at cards as an all-or-nothing situation, but with Bolt... I just can't see running less than 4 if you are going to run it at all. Exception that proves the rule sort of thing.
Never thought about Lightning Bolt like that, Capt. Nick - interesting. I've been using it as I would a Disfigure or something: efficient, instant speed creature removal early. Also, with those changes I made previously, I didn't have enough red sources to effectively use Flame Jab, so here is the new list:
- I think 7 fetches might be better than 8, as in the late game I'm reluctant to crack them and take damage. 4 basics might be too many, but I want to try them.
- I'm moving Pyroclasms to the side because they interfere with my Lingering Souls backup plan. This may be incorrect, but I think having the flexibility of a card like Engineered Explosives in the main could help this deck deal with myriad game 1 threats - I'm lookin' at you, Tarmogoyf.
- Terminate is also a nod to Tarmogoyf as well as a maindeck answer to Splinter Twin. It also hits Scavenging Oozes that get outside of Bolt range. I may cut it, but I want to try it.
I like having 4 Basics in my list. It makes interactions with Ghost Quarter better (either self-inflicted or from the opponent) and gives you the option to avoid some damage if the situation comes up off of a fetch land. On the note of fetch lands, they are pretty key in getting value out of Life from the Loam. While I'm sure it won't be a huge deal, I think having at least two sets is where I'd want to be with them.
Engineered Explosives is a sweet card and I could see the benefits to running it MB. However, the best counter I've come up with for Goyf is Goyfs of my own. Pulse, Decay and Terminate are good but you can't save them just for Goyfs all the time. Dismember may be something to look into. It'll kill bigger Goyfs and is better at interacting with Twin decks.
Have you thought about Iona, Shield of Emeria in the side? It'll give you a better trump to mono-colored decks than Elesh or Griselbrand.
I may go back up to 8 fetches after some testing - haven't gotten to shuffle this 75 up with the holidays and all. Engineered Explosives just seems awesome in this deck. I'm surprised to not see many (or any) other lists running it. Then again, I haven't tested it yet.
I don't currently own Goyfs or Iona, which is why they haven't appeared in my 75. If I were to run Goyfs, I feel like I should just play ten creatures and include Dark Confidants and Countryside Crushers or Haakon, Stromgald Scourges. Iona should definitely be in the list - I'll acquire one. I've also considered a miser's Ashen Rider for matchups like Tron, siding out Elesh Norn. You think that could be any good?
I have Engineered Explosives for Bogel in RUG because I don't have an effective way of dealing with Hexproof as all of my removal targets. Any list running black has ways of forcing a sacrifice. Which is significantly better than Explosives. It does have uses in other match ups but it isn't an extremely efficient answer but makes up for it by being a catch all card.
I hope that adding in Bob and Goyf involves cutting the reanimator package. Doming yourself for 8 sounds terrible. The straight Jund variant is really strong though.
Ashen Rider doesn't really do anything against Tron that Path to Exile doesn't do for you. You'd be better off going for the Ghost Quarter + Loam lock on them. Exiling a Wurmcoil is about all you'll be able to do. They either kill you by casting Emrakul, or pop Oblivion Stone in response to it being targeted, or have already gotten value out of Karn. Rider doesn't really help improve the match up. I don't think there really is anything that hoses Tron by itself. I could do some searching though.
EDIT: Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, and Vorinclex are decent bombs vs Tron.
I may put Engineered Explosives in the board, but I want to see how it performs in testing. It's a little mana intensive, but it can get lots of problem cards or X-for-1 our opponent. Might be better as a third Liliana of the Veil, though.
Yeah, to me, it's either play creatures, play no creatures, or reanimate idiots. Combining those strategies seems anti-synergistic. If I owned a set of Goyfs (only have one currently), I'd be very tempted to run the Jund build, as, well, that shard seems to be pretty good in this format.
Ashen Rider seems better vis-a-vis Woodfall Primus. It exiles ANY permanent - creatures, Karn Liberated, lands, whatever - when it enters and dies. And it flies. I can see Terastodon doing work, though, especially if I Explosives for 0 afterward. I'm going to consider the elephant. I don't think I'm interested in Vorinclex because I want to reanimate a guy and just win the game that turn or a turn later.
Woodfall Primus will leave you with a 5/5 Trampler after it dies though. Whereas Ashen Rider will just be dead. That was the thought there. Depends on your meta though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
RUG Forever A Loam
Counter CatUWRG
RGTitan Fall
QuestSteelUW
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Unfortunate to hear. Have you tried Young Pyromancer in your build? I've found it to be quite powerful in spell heavy builds. It can be aggressive, and defensive at the same time. I've been considering trying out some RUG lists I'll probably post a rough draft soon.
I had kind of forgotten about that list. I had given up on it, then found Commune with the Gods a little bit later. I didn't even give a second thought to using it in an Pyromancer Ascension build. I think with Commune with the Gods you could probably run 3 Pyromancer Ascension. Not sure if Tarmogoyf has a spot in the deck, but it could be alright with Commune pumping it up and finding it.
0-2 vs Jund
1-2 vs affinity
Bye
I was kind of bummed, against Jund I poxed away the first goyf and seared his 2 bob's then fell to the second goyf. Never got the engine going. Second game, I played my lands out wrong and was sick without a green source.
I won game 1 against affinity with a t3 assault. Game 2 I just got ran over. Game 3 should have been mine but I dredged at the wrong time and binned my assault.
Of anyone is planning to pick up this deck in general I feel you want to get quite a good amount of practice in. I've goldfished mine a lot because there is no modern players at my lgs. Had to drive out of town for this small tournament. Can some of you guys go over your rules when playing the deck?
Goyf Is usually where smallpox and liliana come to the rescue for us. We use flame jab to keep their field clear otherwise, then hit the goyf with sac effects. Because they also run decent disruption this can be a hard match up. If you are concerned with goyf then cards like dismember, go for the throat can be put into your board. There is definitely room. Engineered explosives can also be an answer for the goyf. Hitting a spellskit twice with assault deals with the problem so that shouldn't take you too long to handle. If you see a skite you can always build up land in hand that way you can handle the skite and then whatever other creature they drop. The good thing there is that skite takes up a turn of your opponents and allows you time to dig for assault or other answers you may need to handle whatever it is they are throwing at you. It seems like you just need practice in play testing. Maybe you can befriend a couple people who play modern and they would be interested in helping you grind out a bit. Against jund it is probably correct to not dredge out your deck until you do have a lock going with assault or liliana since that only grows the goyf as we give the enchantment and planewalker they need for an extra 2 points. The good thing is we don't have creatures so if they are relying on our creatures we can keep them back. Also hitting a goyf twice off assault and then casting life from the loam to get back lands will help if they have no land in their yard. Should that be an option to shrink a goyf to 4 toughness it will then die to the 4 damage previously dealt to it. Think of things like that and be creative as jund is a very disruptive deck to play against. You can also try ensnaring bridge to keep them back why you assemble your board. If you feel I missed anything let me know and I can hopefully help you
You can also attempt at going with Haakon, stromgald scourge as a 3 of creature in your list and using nameless innervision as a double casting of that will usually kill a goyf. On the flipside it is sadly a tribal card and will also grow a goyf, 4 mana is somewhat our sweet spot as it allows us to cast life from the loam twice in a turn, if you are running innervision you can cast that twice in a turn after playing haakon from your yard. There is a lot of room for creative and innovative thought as the primer suggests. Don't be afraid to try something new that may work. Bring any new ideas to the page here and I will happily test them with you.
Always here. I am addicted to this site, I love talking magic. Post here or PM whenever and I will most likely respond within an hour or 2. I definitely think haakon, inversion is strong enough to be main board. I just tried making changes and I wasn't all that happy with them. I think the extra dig in the form of desperate ravings it really good and I tried to get rid of it but went right back.
You'd have to retool the deck pretty radically to make Lotleth Troll good. He does have moderate synergy with Haakon but outside of that, he can't pitch spells or lands. So you'll be looking at a 2/1 or 3/2 regen'ing trampler. Which isn't bad but isn't amazing either.
Dredge outside of Loam is pretty mediocre to be honest. The reason Loam is good is because with an Assault in play, there are practically no other cards better than Loam and you can draw it every turn. Dredge in this deck doesn't read "fill your yard for value" it reads "draw 1G: 6 damage" every turn. Haakon rides the line of playable here because he gets value off of actions you'd already be playing in the deck. Imp just doesn't do enough to justify play here in my opinion.
If you are building your deck to use him, then you should probably be running him MB. Though the benefit of most decks taking out their removal against the creatureless deck and you bringing in creatures is not to be underestimated. I could see the deck being set up to benefit from both lines of though.
Here's a list I played to a 4-0 finish at my LGS, beating Infect, Melira Pod, Burn, and BG Rock:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (26)
4 Faithless Looting
2 Raven's Crime
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroclasm
2 Smallpox
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
4 Unburial Rites
1 Conflagrate
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Deathmark
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Stony Silence
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Pyroclasm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Timely Reinforcements
Drawing cards with Griselbrand, then flashing back Conflagrate is real. It won me a game. Who doesn't love Channel/Fireball?!
In the tournament I played, my burn and edicts were enough to handle Deathrite Shamans and Scavenging Oozes. Relic of Progenitus is hard to beat, though, but the Ancient Grudges and Stony Silence helped a lot.
The mana is surprisingly decent for a deck that plays Liliana AND Ajani. Three basics helps mitigate life loss from lands. I'm a little concerned about the three enters-the-battlefield-tapped lands, though. Since I'm not as red-heavy as the Assault Loam build, I can't run Flame Jab. It may be worth trying to tweak the list to accommodate that card.
We can definitely compete with Burn and Aggro in game 1. Granted, I was down to 1 life, but it wasn't 0. Dragon's Claw and Timely Reinforcements were all-stars in game 2, especially when you play the latter and animate Elesh Norn. Sick game.
Cards I'm considering:
Horizon Canopy (but afraid of more land damage), Mulch, Inquisition of Kozilek maindeck, Lightning Axe
Any other Loam Reanimator players out there? What do y'all think? Would really appreciate some input from some seasoned dredgers.
Thanks!
The list looks pretty solid as is though. I'm glad it's working out for you. I've never been keen on the reanimation plan though. Since you have to have the creatures in your graveyard to realistically compete and have to target it with another spell to get value, Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze are much more potent against you.
Random last thought, you may want to look into Maelstrom Pulse in place of Abrupt Decay. You are going to be aiming for a bit higher of a curve anyways, and not being limited to hitting 3cmc or less permanents is slightly more relevant in the current meta than it used to be. It might be worth looking into or not. They are both fine cards.
- Smallpox is probably a bit weaker in my list, you're right. It's harder to make BB on T2 than, say, the creature-less Assault Loam lists, too. I'll try some other removal for them.
- Flame Jab is a great card in this deck. I didn't include it initially because I didn't think the deck, as presently constructed, could support all that R. I do like having some number of Lightning Bolts, though, 'cuz having the ability to kill T1 Deathrite Shamans on the draw or a single-pumped Scavenging Ooze seems right. I'll see what I can do.
- 1 or 2 Mulches are going in. In testing, they've done everything I've wanted: bin cards, get me lands for guaranteed Borborygmos Enraged activations.
- I used to run 3 Unburial Rites and 3 monsters, but I upped each to 4 because I wanted to help ensure that I could animate something. One stray Ooze activation could conceivably lose me the game, so I think maximizing my odds of reanimation is correct.
- Conflagrate is probably too cute, but it definitely won me a couple games on the spot that I wouldn't've otherwise. Gonna try cutting it for a more consistent spell.
- Abrupt Decay has been great for me, but I think having a Maelstrom Pulse in the main is a great idea. It gives me game against Tron, Leyline of the Void (if anyone plays them), and myriad other nasties. It would've gotten me out of a double Goblin Guide mess I faced in that tournament as well.
- I may drop a Liliana of the Veil, as my deck wants to flip into my graveyard a lot. She doesn't do much in the bin. Gonna test it and see how it goes.
So I'm looking at these changes:
-1 Conflagrate, -2 Smallpox, -1 Lingering Souls, -1 Liliana of the Veil, -1 Bojuka Bog (moving to the side)
+1 Pyroclasm, +2 Mulch, +1 Maelstrom Pulse, +1 Flame Jab, +1 Graven Cairns
Lingering Souls is great when it's good and horrendous when it's bad, so perhaps 3 main and 1 in the side is correct (or just 3 in the 75 - I do run Timely Reinforcements). I'll shuffle that up and see what happens.
Thanks again!
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Graven Cairns
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
2 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Artifacts (1)
1 Engineered Explosives
Spells (24)
4 Faithless Looting
2 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
2 Mulch
1 Terminate
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Deathmark
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Stony Silence
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Pyroclasm
2 Timely Reinforcements
- I think 7 fetches might be better than 8, as in the late game I'm reluctant to crack them and take damage. 4 basics might be too many, but I want to try them.
- I'm moving Pyroclasms to the side because they interfere with my Lingering Souls backup plan. This may be incorrect, but I think having the flexibility of a card like Engineered Explosives in the main could help this deck deal with myriad game 1 threats - I'm lookin' at you, Tarmogoyf.
- Terminate is also a nod to Tarmogoyf as well as a maindeck answer to Splinter Twin. It also hits Scavenging Oozes that get outside of Bolt range. I may cut it, but I want to try it.
Engineered Explosives is a sweet card and I could see the benefits to running it MB. However, the best counter I've come up with for Goyf is Goyfs of my own. Pulse, Decay and Terminate are good but you can't save them just for Goyfs all the time. Dismember may be something to look into. It'll kill bigger Goyfs and is better at interacting with Twin decks.
Have you thought about Iona, Shield of Emeria in the side? It'll give you a better trump to mono-colored decks than Elesh or Griselbrand.
I don't currently own Goyfs or Iona, which is why they haven't appeared in my 75. If I were to run Goyfs, I feel like I should just play ten creatures and include Dark Confidants and Countryside Crushers or Haakon, Stromgald Scourges. Iona should definitely be in the list - I'll acquire one. I've also considered a miser's Ashen Rider for matchups like Tron, siding out Elesh Norn. You think that could be any good?
Thanks for the suggestions!
I hope that adding in Bob and Goyf involves cutting the reanimator package. Doming yourself for 8 sounds terrible. The straight Jund variant is really strong though.
Ashen Rider doesn't really do anything against Tron that Path to Exile doesn't do for you. You'd be better off going for the Ghost Quarter + Loam lock on them. Exiling a Wurmcoil is about all you'll be able to do. They either kill you by casting Emrakul, or pop Oblivion Stone in response to it being targeted, or have already gotten value out of Karn. Rider doesn't really help improve the match up. I don't think there really is anything that hoses Tron by itself. I could do some searching though.
EDIT: Terastodon, Woodfall Primus, and Vorinclex are decent bombs vs Tron.
I may put Engineered Explosives in the board, but I want to see how it performs in testing. It's a little mana intensive, but it can get lots of problem cards or X-for-1 our opponent. Might be better as a third Liliana of the Veil, though.
Yeah, to me, it's either play creatures, play no creatures, or reanimate idiots. Combining those strategies seems anti-synergistic. If I owned a set of Goyfs (only have one currently), I'd be very tempted to run the Jund build, as, well, that shard seems to be pretty good in this format.
Ashen Rider seems better vis-a-vis Woodfall Primus. It exiles ANY permanent - creatures, Karn Liberated, lands, whatever - when it enters and dies. And it flies. I can see Terastodon doing work, though, especially if I Explosives for 0 afterward. I'm going to consider the elephant. I don't think I'm interested in Vorinclex because I want to reanimate a guy and just win the game that turn or a turn later.