Round 1: UB Mill
W 2-1, And the player went 3-1 after 4th round. Me being the only lost.
Went after his life total fast has I could;Tarmogoyf, Grim flayer andseismic assault getting the job done. Still got me to one card in library in third game. We agreed it was a fun round.
Fun fact: conjurer's Bauble,cast Life from the loam, sacrifice conjurer's Bauble to dredge Life from the loam and throw 12 damages for 4 mana in one turn is fair.
@Mazereon: I took a more aggro path, leaving the combo secondary but still finished at least half my game with Seismic Assault kill. Conjurer's Bauble is maybe not optimal in every meta, but it filled its roll in my fnm beautyfully. Dredging Life from the loamfor free so casting two times for 4 mana is great value for me. Or the worse is you draw a card, boosting weather goyf or flayer. I am going to put fourth assault, cutting third Thoughtseize, but getting 3 red is relativly easy IMO. LFTL gets there pretty easy withFaithless Looting,Grim Flayer, Dark Confidant so don't know what I could cut for a fourth one. Let me know if everything make sense to yall. Thanks
@lord hazanko:
This could definitely work but as I said in my latest post, I do think that running 4 loams is crucial to get the engine going.
With 4 loams and snapcasters you could maybe abandon white and go for shadow of the grave for a more combo-ish approach.
Adding black would grant you access to removalspells and more importantly handdisruption.
Basically playing a grixis control shell, splashing green for loam and tarmogoyf.
Gifts Ungiven can find Loam whenever you need it just by sticking it into a value pile.
Gifts can actually set up the entire combo by itself with (Assault, Loam, Revival, Snap)
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Played modern for the first time in probably a year. Didn't go great as my first two rounds were skred and burn. Burn in my experience is tough, but I was able to push to 3 ganes.skred was able to resolve their walkers while I couldn't find an assault. Had a bye and beat grixis control. What a great welcome back to modern.
Here is the 73 I "settled" on. That's right, I was digging through my board round 1 against skred and thought it was a bit light, turns out I forgot the 2 Krosan Grip I was going to play.
Overall the deck was fairly smooth. Had some slight issues with game play mostly. Should have stolen a second game off burn to win the match but I missed a potential 6 damage by not dredging loam a turn. Won't make that mistake again. Shadows unfortunately was never there when assault was there so I'm really unsure if it is as good as I want it to be and I will likely trim 1 for another unburial rites if I stick to this build. Liliana of the Veil should likely just be bolt as I often found myself wanting an easy answer to specific creatures like goblin guide and young pyromancer.
I may open up 2 slots in the board for 2 iona. Given my matches and a lot of what I saw around the room iona shutting down a color would have been real good in the meta.
Odds are I'll be back on a young pyromancer build though.
I'm gonna start playing this deck again, using Killer_Manfred's list as a starting point.
@Killer_Manfred as for your question about sideboards, I used to play this deck long ago, and Tron was a big problem. I'll be including at least 4 things that kill lands in the board, probably starting with 4 Fulminator Mage, and maybe a Crumble to Dust or 2. Yard hate can also be a problem, so I'll be including the 3rd and 4th Abrupt Decays to deal with Rest in Peace or force them to crack an artifact hate piece. Ancient Grudge is another easy include, as it can hit all of Affinity, some Tron pieces, and is a card that operates from the graveyard.
I don't own any Vessel of Nascency or cycling lands, so I'll be using Faithless Looting and some dual lands/man lands in their place. While coming into play tapped definitely sucks, Raging Ravine (and even Lava Claw Reaches) can really help when Seismic Assault won't get the job done for whatever reason.
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Modern: BW Zombies / BGR Assault Loam / BUR Control
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
Hey there everyone. It's been like a million years, but I've actually gotten some time to open up for MTG again. I made some changes to my RUG Loam deck and took it to second place of ~20 people this past weekend. How's Shadow of the Grave been working for everyone? It looks sweet. Has any one tested Tasigur, the Golden Fang out at all? He seems decent as an efficient threat with how quickly we bin things, not to mention EoT recursion with his ability.
@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.
Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.
I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.
Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.
I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter'sServantCombo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.
It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!
Hey there everyone. It's been like a million years, but I've actually gotten some time to open up for MTG again. I made some changes to my RUG Loam deck and took it to second place of ~20 people this past weekend. How's Shadow of the Grave been working for everyone? It looks sweet. Has any one tested Tasigur, the Golden Fang out at all? He seems decent as an efficient threat with how quickly we bin things, not to mention EoT recursion with his ability.
@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.
Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.
I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.
Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.
I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter'sServantCombo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.
It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!
What is the reason for the 4 off deprive? Any use for the land coming back to your hand?
What is the reason for the 4 off deprive? Any use for the land coming back to your hand?
It's a 2cmc hard counter. There is the upside with an Assault out that it turns into "Counter target spell. Deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It's been very useful more times than I can remember. It can be a bit awkward if you have to pop it turn 2 or 3 but usually if you are doing that, you're stopping a combo from going off. So you have time to rebuild a board state afterward.
@tarmotwin - I'm glad your FNM went well. I like the Grim Flayer tech. How often was he coming down as a 4/4? Did you find he was connecting often enough to warrant his inclusion over more consistent numbers on the core cards (Loam/Assault/Lands)? Also, Blood Moon in the board seems like an odd inclusion since it usually hoses our mana intensive deck. I know that you being the one playing means you get to play around it, but it isn't usually until turn 4+ that you can really swing a basic land and still hit the colors you need. What matches are you bringing it in for?
@mykatdied - Is your Young Pyromancer build similar to what I remember it being; with Smallpox and a lot of Retrace? In your current build, I think your idea of Iona is a good call. Maybe run her as a 1-of over Elesh Norn? I don't know your meta and the -2/-2 hosing may be better suited but cutting off a core color for most decks seems really good most of the time. Or maybe just replace Archfiend, since Elesh and him accomplish roughly the same thing.
@Lord Hazanko - Gifts might have some tech to it, though I'm personally a fan of playing more proactive spells rather than tutoring. Feels like wasted turns. What is the point of the white in the deck list that you posted? Sideboard options makes some sense but I think you could get a much stronger RUG manabase and run with it from there. Knight of the Reliquary can get big I guess but it forces you to play more aggressively with Assault (eg throwing lands unnecessarily into the yard to keep up Knight's size) rather than holding them for potentially more valuable situations.
Yeah my young pyromancer build is similar to the one you remember. I have since dropped smallpox and added dark confidant since it provides multiple must answer creatures and a way to leverage overall additional card advantage. It worked fairly well the one time I ran it though burn continues to be an issue. I think I am neglecting an obvious card choice in collected brutality. Really works in the deck and allows more use out of my lands and life from the loam for value. I'll have to pick up a few copies and test them out.
I was playtesting a bit against Dredge and Affinity yesterday, but I decided to make some tweaks based off how my deck felt. Here's the list I'll be testing now:
Still not really sure about the sideboard. Seems like we already have a reasonable affinity match up, so I'm not sure if Ancient Grudge is totally needed but I'll see. Any feedback?
Edit: I also want to say that RUG version looks sweet. The Deprive inclusion is really clever. I'd build it to try if I had the cash for 'goyfs.
@mykatdied - I'd be interested to hear how testing with Collective Brutality goes. I do like the synergy it has with Loam and it seems solid enough on it's own to be of value. Without seeing a list, it's hard to recommend something that could work v. burn. My general 2-for-1 card in Green is Obstinate Baloth. You don't get the free cast against burn but a 4/4 that gains you 4 life puts a big damper on their gameplan. And it has the upside of being good against 8-Rack and Jund.
@Mazereon - I don't have a problem with KotR. I think it can lead to awkward situations where you'll feel obligated to leave lands in the 'yard to get more damage through or to have a large blocker. My playstyle with the deck is to sit on lands and build up damage over several turns so I can drop game ending damage in one go rather than pings here and there. I like having my options open and KotR pushes you into wanting lands in a specific (and basically unusable) place.
I don't know if any version of the deck is really equipped to handle 4 colors very well. I personally have a ton of trouble on the first few turns planning out my mana requirements and how that limits my plays for known cards in my hand as well as potentially drawn cards later on in the game. So, the idea Snap'ing back a Shadow of the Grave sounds enticing, I think it may be too strenuous for the mana base.
@inwiththenoose - I like Goyf as a sizeable beater and is able to hold off things I can't Bolt or Assault easily but I think Young Pyromancer would be an acceptable replacement in that slot.
I've been thinking about my color fixing and Capt. Nick's comment on whether we can run 4 colors. I was thinking about replacing my Countryside Crushers with 4 Birds of Paradise (and removing 1 Shadow of the Grave) because 1) we can power out Seismic Assault, and other stuff, at least a turn earlier and 2) fix colors better. Has anyone tried this? Mostly I'm just trying to justify playing KoTR in the more Jund version because I really like the options in black.
Early game bolt answers most every card that I want it to answer. Later in the game a single bolt with 3 lands on assault is 3 mana for 9 damage. Enough to kill an opponent on Death's Shadow when bolt isn't enough to kill it. With how much they tax their own life total even a bolt or two plus a couple assault activations is more than enough. Fatal Push and bolt could likely be split. I would consider going 2-2 bolt/push by dropping the 3rd decay which may be correct to have more early game interaction
Playing a 4 color deck definitely is challenging, in this deck most likely even more so, but it is not something I would just write off. I dont remember that many games where I got manascrewed so heavily that I couldnt put up a fight at least. The manabase in a 4 color deck has to be perfect, that is the challenge.
And I for one just love to be greedy and I love my KotRs, especially post board they can be a major factor in a game, because creature removal just ísnt very good against us.
Agreed, having 3R on turn 3 along with at least one G,W, and B can be tough. I've decided to go more in on fetches with red and get all my Rx shocks out first to make sure I have the mana available for Assault and whatever my hand dictates. I'm thinking I might remove the Godless Shrine and Temple Garden for another Rx shock I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea in a 4c deck. Also moving the Ghost Quarter to the SB to only bring in for more grindy match ups.
I love my KotRs too and I don't wanna give up the discard and removal in black so I'm gonna stick with 4c for now.
The idea of including collective brutality is very tempting. The synergy it has with basically everthing we are trying to accomplish cant be denied and I am going to test out 2 copies instead of the 2 Thoughtseize I was running, but loosing 2 life in combination with the damage dealt by my manabase always left a bitter taste.
I've actually been thinking about taking Thoughtseize out since the 4c mana base is especially painful. I was thinking either Collective Brutality or Bolt in those spots. I like that bolt gives us reach and removal for 1 mana, and mykatdied gives a good argument for it as well. Brutality gives us a little bit more flexibility, another pesudo-IOK/TS, and is a house against burn. I'll test out both and see how they do.
@inwiththenoose:
Acutally I do not really like either of those 2 creatures. Birds would make the deck more explosive, but we need some time to assemble our value engine regardless. Drawing a Bird in later stages off the game does not feel very good either, it can just be discarded to faithless looting but thats not really why you want to include a card, except for loam and lands. We can not take advantage of playing mana dorks as CoCo or Chord decks can. Playing bird also makes removal better, cards that would have been kind of dead otherwise.
Regarding the crusher, I do think that its just an overcosted beater that gets blocked all day by anything.
But I am not that experienced with this deck as the majority of the people in this thread, maybe someone has already tried out birds and can give you a better feedback.
I think making the deck more explosive is probably a bigger benefit that we'd think. Getting our engine online ASAP feels like it can really pull us back into the game if we're behind. But I totally agree, drawing a birds later in the game is possibly the worst thing we could draw. Maybe that is balanced by getting our engine on sooner so we can just dredge it anyway? I'm gonna test them out in place of Crusher and see how they do.
I played @killer_manfred's list tonight, with 2 Faithless Lootings instead of 2 Vessel of Nascency. It's basically Jund Assault Loam, with 4 Dark Confidant in the main as the only creatures.
3 round FNM, went as follows.
Round 1 vs. B/g 8 Rack
Game 1: A buddy of mine who plays 8 rack on occasion decided to add green for Loam (Raven's Crime value) and Abrupt Decay. He wins the roll, and plays a Rack effect on turn 1. I Raven's Crime him, which in retrospect was a mistake, but he was on the mulligan and I thought there was a chance I could ruin his hand before he ruined mine. Bob #1 gets Liliana Edicted, but #2 sticks around to get a card and kill Liliana before being Fatal Pushed. He runs out of cards, and finds a second Rack effect, so I have to start keeping cards in hand. I find a Loam to help fill the hand to get me out of Rack range, and Bob #3 shows up to trade with a Mutavault. He keeps drawing discard, but Loam saves me from Racks until I'm able to find Seismic Assault and win.
Game 2: He starts on Forest, Rack. I start with Faithless, find a Confidant which draws an Abrupt Decay. His draw is slow, and I find a second Confidant on turn 4 or 5. I Inquisition him before casting Bob, see 2 Decays, take 1 and then the other, play Bob. It draws a card or 2 dies, he plays Gurmag Angler. I take 5 a couple times before finding my sideboard Maelstrom Pulse to kill it, and again a 3rd Bob which again trades with Mutavault. On the turn before I will die to 2 Racks, I draw Seismic Assault. I cycle a land, Dredge Loam, Loam up some lands, play Sesimic. He doesn't play anything, and says go at 19 life. I dredge Loam, 12 him, Shadow of the Grave to 12 him again.
Round 2 vs. Esper Mentor Control
Game 1: Another buddy of mine, and the games he tells me this list went 9/0 on day 1 of GP Kobe. This is NOT the Painful Truths/Glory-Bound list that top 8'd, but a different sweet Japanese Esper brew. Anywho, I win the roll, and my opening hand has 3 lands, 3 Bobs, and a Faithless Looting. Despite seeing more than 30 cards, I never see a Seismic Assault, and I die to Lingering Souls/Sorin/Smuggler's Copter.
Game 2: A good opener with discard, land, Loam, and Faithless. I Anger of the Gods on my turn 5 to kill 2 Lingering Souls, Mentor, and Jace. He rebuilds, but I've found Seismic Loam and have 6 shots this turn. I kill his 2 tokens, his flipped Jace (which was threatening to flashback Celestial Purge), and take his Sorin down to 1 so it can't make a token to crew a lethal Smuggler's Copter. He topdeck's Tasigur, and Copter kills me.
Game 3: Even though I lost 2/0, I felt like I was pretty close to winning both games. He disagrees, and humors me to a 3rd game for funsies. I go Bob, Seismic, cast Life from the Loam, and there is no way he can win. Faith in the deck restored !!
Round 3 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: He has only 1 discard spell, and 1 Death's Shadow which eats a Fatal Push. I'm able to assemble Seismic Loam, and kill him. Obvious note: you really want to 1-shot Death's Shadow players. Stubborn Denial can catch a Loam, and you really don't want to pump their Shadow until it's time to win the game.
Game 2: I open with Black Cleave Cliffs, Graven Cairns, Sesmic, Faithless, Terminate and 2x Abrupt Decay. I keep despite not having green, as I think this hand has a reasonable chance at surviving until I get green. He discards my Faithless Looting to attempt to stall me off green. I draw another Seismic, pass, he Thought Scours and Serum Visions. I draw Bob and slam it on turn 2. Of course it dies, but when he goes to discard me again, he sees 2 Seismics, so he takes the Terminate. I draw a land, slam Seismic Assault. From here, we both stall pretty hard. I'm holding my second Seismic, 2 Decays, and every land I draw, waiting to find Loam to 1-shot him. Eventually he Kolaghan's me, and I discard the Seismic. I keep drawing lands and inconsequential spells, and he durdles around with Snapcasters which I shoot before they can attack. After several turns he plays a Shadow, I Decay it, and I finally rip Loam. I know he has at least 1 Stubborn Denial in hand, but I have 4 mana which could pay for 2 Denials, and I shoot him for 12 winning the match.
So I go 2/1, pretty happy with the result. I felt like I could have easily beat the Esper player had it worked out a little differently, but on the other hand I feel like I got pretty lucky against Grixis Shadow. The mainboard felt very good. Shadow of the Grave didn't do a lot (I never got to use it to "counter" a discard spell), but the one time I did use, it won the game on the spot. The cycling lands felt very good, and I want at least 1 more in the deck. This deck often just needs to find Loam or Seismic as soon as possible, and the cycling lands add a little bit of digging while also being a good way to save a Loam from the yard. If they try to Spellbomb/Surgical/Scooze with only 1 mana, you can Dredge at instant speed with is pretty sweet.
That's all for now!
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Modern: BW Zombies / BGR Assault Loam / BUR Control
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
@Mazereon - I didn't mean to say that we can't run 4 colors, just that it's taxing on the mana base, life total and to some extent limits your early game plays depending on your draws and those card's color requirements. Like, a 1-off white splash for a late game Unburial Rites is much easier to swing than trying to have access to Green, White, and Black on top of triple Red by turn 3. Especially if you're looking at cards like Abrupt Decay, Terminate, Looting/Inquisition, KotR, and Assault amidst a couple lands in your first few turns. It requires you to do some mental gymnastics to plan out how you're going to roll out your turns and what the opponent is going to do. Which is mentally straining over time and leaves you open to your opponent breaking plan and forcing you into other options.
Also, I don't see how KotR is that much different from Crusher in your latest post. I'd say KotR is a better top deck late game because its buffing ability is always active, instead of the hoops you have to go through for Crusher. Though Crusher can potentially get much bigger than KotR. But in general, they are both going to be big beaters with no real evasion. Which seemed to be the point you were making. I would concede that Knight is a better card in a vacuum, mainly because of the tutoring ability working to smooth out your mana and finding utility lands. But it comes at a pretty heavy cost, as I mentioned above. For me personally, unless KotR and your sideboard cards drastically increases your percentages against key match ups for your meta, I would consider trimming down to a more streamlined core for your deck in your primary colors and focus on making that line of play stronger.
All that being said, I do know that MtG is a game and everyone's primary goal is to have a good time while playing. So if you like playing KotR and making a 4 color mana base work, then more power to you. I don't want to come across as tearing apart something you enjoy. I'd just like you to have the most successful deck you can play and if there is reasoning you have for why the White splash is the best option, I'd be interested in hearing about it and having a discussion on that topic.
@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.
I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.
@Krond2 - Thanks for sharing your gameplay with us! Doming someone for 24 must have felt really great. I'm glad Shadow of the Grave worked out for you like that. Has it come up in other areas and been useful for you other than combo'ing out? Tough break on the Esper match up, sounds like he was playing a pretty spicy list. I'll keep in mind making sure to try and 1-shot the Death's Shadow players. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to pump their DSs more than you have to. Especially since I don't have access to Fatal Push or Aburpt Decay in my RUG list.
That's the only time Shadow of the Grave came in handy.
Theoretically it can be "Thoughtseize Insurance" though. They target you with discard, and if you have something important, Shadow can get it back. It can also be handy on a late game turn where you Faithless and/or cycle some lands, then Shadow them back.
It's possible the card is just too cute, but I'm going to play it for a few more rounds before I make a judgment on it.
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Yeah, I know how bonkers Leyline of Sanctity can be. Which actually you should be running 4 of it if you are going to run the card at all because it becomes so game breaking in the match ups where you want it. Lingering Souls sounds good but I don't know if the sideboard is the best place for it. If you really want a card that functions well against Burn or RDW, Timely Reinforcements does a ton of work in those match ups. Basically reading "Negate 2 Burn spells and prevent 3 attacks." However, in Jund colors, you can always run Dragon's Claw does a surprising amount of work. As does Obstinate Baloth with the upside of being good against 8 Rack decks as well.
I started playing RUG from when modern became a thing because there was so much combo and having counterspells against Storm, Twin, Living End, and other such combo decks. It feels more secure than discard and hoping to hit their combo pieces. Plus, you get to play Counterspell 2.0 with its downside being an upside, Serum Visions is a very solid way to smooth draws early on and is a 1cmc Dredge enabler, and Snapcaster Mage + Lightning Bolt is a proven combination.
Delver seems contradictory to the gameplan of the deck. Delver is more of a tempo card rather than an attrition card. I'd be interested in seeing the list that you saw because it'd have to be built fairly different to accommodate a more aggressive play style. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted big butt most of the time. I don't know what would be a reasonable substitute for it. That's the reason it's such an expensive card unfortunately. Baral, Chief of Compliance, Augur of Bolas, Moldgraf Scavenger, Omenspeaker, Scavenging Ooze, Thing in the Ice, and Young Pyromancer are all potentially ok replacements with YP being the most likely best option. The most recent Modern Master's version of Goyf are only ~$80, which seems reasonable for such a staple card and they'll only go up in price in the future. If you're considering playing Modern for years to come, it may not be a bad idea to try and scrounge trades for them.
I played 2 more rounds this weekend, couldn't finish the tournament but left at 2/0.
Round 1 vs Merfolk.
I was concerned about Spreading Seas, which he did have 4 of, but this match seems very favorable. If we draw Seismic Assault, our deck is playing about 40 removal spells. Cycling lands came in very handy post board to instant speed Dredge Loam in response to Relic pop. After casting Seismic, it felt like I couldn't lose. Win 2/0.
Round 2 vs Esper Death's Shadow.
I keep 5 land, Seismic, Abrupt Decay, thinking he would be on infect because he plays that a lot. My cards get discarded, but Cycling Lands + Faithless + Shadow of the Grave let me dig deep. A couple removal spells along the way let me survive to find Seismic and I 14 him. Game 2 I make a huge mistake that nearly costs me the game. After trading discard spells, I begin my turn 3 with Seismic Loam in hand, Blood Crypt and Stomping Ground in play, and Blood Crypt and Verdant Catacombs in hand. I play Verdant, fetch... Can't find an untapped red source. Of course he rips Thoughtseize and discards my Seismic, and I reveal my huge blunder. I got greedy, trying to put more lands in the yard, when I should have just played Seismic. Anywho, the game goes long with my Bob drawing me removal for his guys, and eventually Worm Harvest bails me out of my punt. Win 2/0 despite my egregious error. I have since burned the exact 26 lands I run into my memory.
I think I'll be going down to 2 Shadow of the Grave, and I might move Raven's Crime to the board. Shadow is very strong in the right place, but it's often not very good. Raven's Crime is extremely good in long control games, but also often dead. This will leave more room for 2 more Faithless Looting and maybe a maindeck Pulse or Dread Bore.
Having lots of fun with this deck, especially when I burst down Death's Shadow players. More updates to come on Wednesday.
Of note, I haven't played against any haymaker sideboard cards. Relic is bad, but not game over. I'm more concerned about beating RIP and Leyline of Sanctity. I'm playing 2 Nature's Claim in the board, and 1-2 Pulses. I hope it's enough.
@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.
Fair point. My concession was to the fact that I'm a Jund + small white splash so an extra colored land might be more helpful than a GQ. I'll try out both and see if the extra colored land helps at all. Other than GQ, Tectonic Edge, and Raging Ravine, what other utility lands would be useful in this deck? I've thought about adding in something like Slayers' Stronghold as a tutor target for KotR but it seems a little slow/clunky.
I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.
I played some on MTGO last night testing out BoP and while I don't think "win-more" is quite the right category, I'm definitely coming to the conclusion that I'd probably want a more "action" card than BoP. I actually really like it turn 1 as it really helps smooth out the curve/color fixing. Other than that, I never ever want to see it after turn 1 and I have all my colors. I'm trying to figure out what to replace them with now.
I think, per Mazeron, a 1-of Huntmaster MD is super useful. Lifegain against some decks is super useful, the extra blocker, and the ability to kill a small creature and your opp are actually quite good in most circumstances I've been able to play them.
@Krond2 Thanks for your reports! I've cut down to 2 Shadows of the Grave too and thinking about cutting them both. They're amazing when drawn after you have your engine online, as you can easily combo most decks down in 1 turn with a loam + grave, but I feel like I end up discarding them to Faithless Looting more often than not.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow URG Amulet Titan
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First: Sideboard
Round 1: UB Mill
W 2-1, And the player went 3-1 after 4th round. Me being the only lost.
Went after his life total fast has I could;Tarmogoyf, Grim flayer andseismic assault getting the job done. Still got me to one card in library in third game. We agreed it was a fun round.
Fun fact: conjurer's Bauble,cast Life from the loam, sacrifice conjurer's Bauble to dredge Life from the loam and throw 12 damages for 4 mana in one turn is fair.
round 2: Rg Ponza
W 2-0, on the draw both game
He managed to castPrimal Command turn 3, putting my second land on top. But to get stormbreath Dragon, which I Terminated. He had a Inferno Titan in hand, but could not cast after I used Seismic Assault to killBirds of Paradise and Arbor Elf.
Conceded second game one a turn 5 two land, sorry Gerry.
round 3: Eldrazi D&T
First game one way; me getting Leonin Arbitered on one land, second land was a fetch, and never got third land to pay the cost.
second: He went 15tarmogoyf,10[/card]tarmogoyf[/card],7,2Tarmogoyf and closed with a Destructive revelryonaether Vial, nice.
Third got screwed keeping a one lander with aAether Vial, which I Kolaghan's Command. He dropped a Rest in Peaceafter having to Ghost Quarter is own Eldrazi Temple, meaning he missed lots of land drop, to late to stop Grim flayers andseismic Assault over Eldrazi Displacer left with the third round 3-0.
round 4: Esper Delver
L 0-2, But for my defense I usually am awake for the 16th hour of the day.loll
Still really close games, the Lingering Souls,Delver of Secrets flew over my defenses. Plus didn't thraw no Seismic Assault. Got Inquisition of Kozileked like three times first three turns on game one losing Seismic Assault,tarmogoyf,tarmogoyf kinda hand.
@Mazereon: I took a more aggro path, leaving the combo secondary but still finished at least half my game with Seismic Assault kill. Conjurer's Bauble is maybe not optimal in every meta, but it filled its roll in my fnm beautyfully. Dredging Life from the loamfor free so casting two times for 4 mana is great value for me. Or the worse is you draw a card, boosting weather goyf or flayer. I am going to put fourth assault, cutting third Thoughtseize, but getting 3 red is relativly easy IMO. LFTL gets there pretty easy withFaithless Looting,Grim Flayer, Dark Confidant so don't know what I could cut for a fourth one. Let me know if everything make sense to yall. Thanks
Gifts Ungiven can find Loam whenever you need it just by sticking it into a value pile.
Gifts can actually set up the entire combo by itself with (Assault, Loam, Revival, Snap)
Here is the 73 I "settled" on. That's right, I was digging through my board round 1 against skred and thought it was a bit light, turns out I forgot the 2 Krosan Grip I was going to play.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canyon Slough
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
3 Graven Cairns
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Archfiend of Ifnir
1 Borborygmos Enraged
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Spells 30
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Faithless Looting
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Raven's Crime
4 Seismic Assault
3 Shadow of the Grave
2 Terminate
1 Unburial Rites
1 Worm Harvest
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ray of Revelation
Overall the deck was fairly smooth. Had some slight issues with game play mostly. Should have stolen a second game off burn to win the match but I missed a potential 6 damage by not dredging loam a turn. Won't make that mistake again. Shadows unfortunately was never there when assault was there so I'm really unsure if it is as good as I want it to be and I will likely trim 1 for another unburial rites if I stick to this build. Liliana of the Veil should likely just be bolt as I often found myself wanting an easy answer to specific creatures like goblin guide and young pyromancer.
I may open up 2 slots in the board for 2 iona. Given my matches and a lot of what I saw around the room iona shutting down a color would have been real good in the meta.
Odds are I'll be back on a young pyromancer build though.
@Killer_Manfred as for your question about sideboards, I used to play this deck long ago, and Tron was a big problem. I'll be including at least 4 things that kill lands in the board, probably starting with 4 Fulminator Mage, and maybe a Crumble to Dust or 2. Yard hate can also be a problem, so I'll be including the 3rd and 4th Abrupt Decays to deal with Rest in Peace or force them to crack an artifact hate piece. Ancient Grudge is another easy include, as it can hit all of Affinity, some Tron pieces, and is a card that operates from the graveyard.
I don't own any Vessel of Nascency or cycling lands, so I'll be using Faithless Looting and some dual lands/man lands in their place. While coming into play tapped definitely sucks, Raging Ravine (and even Lava Claw Reaches) can really help when Seismic Assault won't get the job done for whatever reason.
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.
Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Spells: 27
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Life from the Loam
4 Deprive
4 Seismic Assault
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
Lands: 25
1 Breeding Pool
2 Cascade Bluffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Spirebluff Canal
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Back to Nature
1 Counterflux
2 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nature's Claim
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.
Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.
I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter's Servant Combo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.
It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!
What is the reason for the 4 off deprive? Any use for the land coming back to your hand?
It's a 2cmc hard counter. There is the upside with an Assault out that it turns into "Counter target spell. Deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It's been very useful more times than I can remember. It can be a bit awkward if you have to pop it turn 2 or 3 but usually if you are doing that, you're stopping a combo from going off. So you have time to rebuild a board state afterward.
@tarmotwin - I'm glad your FNM went well. I like the Grim Flayer tech. How often was he coming down as a 4/4? Did you find he was connecting often enough to warrant his inclusion over more consistent numbers on the core cards (Loam/Assault/Lands)? Also, Blood Moon in the board seems like an odd inclusion since it usually hoses our mana intensive deck. I know that you being the one playing means you get to play around it, but it isn't usually until turn 4+ that you can really swing a basic land and still hit the colors you need. What matches are you bringing it in for?
@mykatdied - Is your Young Pyromancer build similar to what I remember it being; with Smallpox and a lot of Retrace? In your current build, I think your idea of Iona is a good call. Maybe run her as a 1-of over Elesh Norn? I don't know your meta and the -2/-2 hosing may be better suited but cutting off a core color for most decks seems really good most of the time. Or maybe just replace Archfiend, since Elesh and him accomplish roughly the same thing.
@Lord Hazanko - Gifts might have some tech to it, though I'm personally a fan of playing more proactive spells rather than tutoring. Feels like wasted turns. What is the point of the white in the deck list that you posted? Sideboard options makes some sense but I think you could get a much stronger RUG manabase and run with it from there. Knight of the Reliquary can get big I guess but it forces you to play more aggressively with Assault (eg throwing lands unnecessarily into the yard to keep up Knight's size) rather than holding them for potentially more valuable situations.
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Countryside Crusher
Sorcery
4 Life from the Loam
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Faithless Looting
Instant
3 Fatal push
4 Terminate
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Shadow of the Grave
Enchantments
4 Seismic Assault
Lands
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Canyon Slough
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
2 Graven Cairns
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Raven's Crime
1 Scavenging Ooze
Still not really sure about the sideboard. Seems like we already have a reasonable affinity match up, so I'm not sure if Ancient Grudge is totally needed but I'll see. Any feedback?
Edit: I also want to say that RUG version looks sweet. The Deprive inclusion is really clever. I'd build it to try if I had the cash for 'goyfs.
UBR Grixis Shadow
URG Amulet Titan
@Mazereon - I don't have a problem with KotR. I think it can lead to awkward situations where you'll feel obligated to leave lands in the 'yard to get more damage through or to have a large blocker. My playstyle with the deck is to sit on lands and build up damage over several turns so I can drop game ending damage in one go rather than pings here and there. I like having my options open and KotR pushes you into wanting lands in a specific (and basically unusable) place.
I don't know if any version of the deck is really equipped to handle 4 colors very well. I personally have a ton of trouble on the first few turns planning out my mana requirements and how that limits my plays for known cards in my hand as well as potentially drawn cards later on in the game. So, the idea Snap'ing back a Shadow of the Grave sounds enticing, I think it may be too strenuous for the mana base.
@inwiththenoose - I like Goyf as a sizeable beater and is able to hold off things I can't Bolt or Assault easily but I think Young Pyromancer would be an acceptable replacement in that slot.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Canyon Slough
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
3 Graven Cairns
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Raging Ravine
1 Sheltered Thicket
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Borborygmos Enraged
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Life from the Loam
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Raven's Crime
3 Seismic Assault
2 Terminate
2 Unburial Rites
1 Worm Harvest
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Dragon's Claw
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Syphon Life
This is what I'm looking at currently for 4c assault loam with the unburial rites package.
UBR Grixis Shadow
URG Amulet Titan
Agreed, having 3R on turn 3 along with at least one G,W, and B can be tough. I've decided to go more in on fetches with red and get all my Rx shocks out first to make sure I have the mana available for Assault and whatever my hand dictates. I'm thinking I might remove the Godless Shrine and Temple Garden for another Rx shock I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea in a 4c deck. Also moving the Ghost Quarter to the SB to only bring in for more grindy match ups.
I love my KotRs too and I don't wanna give up the discard and removal in black so I'm gonna stick with 4c for now.
I've actually been thinking about taking Thoughtseize out since the 4c mana base is especially painful. I was thinking either Collective Brutality or Bolt in those spots. I like that bolt gives us reach and removal for 1 mana, and mykatdied gives a good argument for it as well. Brutality gives us a little bit more flexibility, another pesudo-IOK/TS, and is a house against burn. I'll test out both and see how they do.
I think making the deck more explosive is probably a bigger benefit that we'd think. Getting our engine online ASAP feels like it can really pull us back into the game if we're behind. But I totally agree, drawing a birds later in the game is possibly the worst thing we could draw. Maybe that is balanced by getting our engine on sooner so we can just dredge it anyway? I'm gonna test them out in place of Crusher and see how they do.
UBR Grixis Shadow
URG Amulet Titan
3 round FNM, went as follows.
Round 1 vs. B/g 8 Rack
Game 1: A buddy of mine who plays 8 rack on occasion decided to add green for Loam (Raven's Crime value) and Abrupt Decay. He wins the roll, and plays a Rack effect on turn 1. I Raven's Crime him, which in retrospect was a mistake, but he was on the mulligan and I thought there was a chance I could ruin his hand before he ruined mine. Bob #1 gets Liliana Edicted, but #2 sticks around to get a card and kill Liliana before being Fatal Pushed. He runs out of cards, and finds a second Rack effect, so I have to start keeping cards in hand. I find a Loam to help fill the hand to get me out of Rack range, and Bob #3 shows up to trade with a Mutavault. He keeps drawing discard, but Loam saves me from Racks until I'm able to find Seismic Assault and win.
Game 2: He starts on Forest, Rack. I start with Faithless, find a Confidant which draws an Abrupt Decay. His draw is slow, and I find a second Confidant on turn 4 or 5. I Inquisition him before casting Bob, see 2 Decays, take 1 and then the other, play Bob. It draws a card or 2 dies, he plays Gurmag Angler. I take 5 a couple times before finding my sideboard Maelstrom Pulse to kill it, and again a 3rd Bob which again trades with Mutavault. On the turn before I will die to 2 Racks, I draw Seismic Assault. I cycle a land, Dredge Loam, Loam up some lands, play Sesimic. He doesn't play anything, and says go at 19 life. I dredge Loam, 12 him, Shadow of the Grave to 12 him again.
Round 2 vs. Esper Mentor Control
Game 1: Another buddy of mine, and the games he tells me this list went 9/0 on day 1 of GP Kobe. This is NOT the Painful Truths/Glory-Bound list that top 8'd, but a different sweet Japanese Esper brew. Anywho, I win the roll, and my opening hand has 3 lands, 3 Bobs, and a Faithless Looting. Despite seeing more than 30 cards, I never see a Seismic Assault, and I die to Lingering Souls/Sorin/Smuggler's Copter.
Game 2: A good opener with discard, land, Loam, and Faithless. I Anger of the Gods on my turn 5 to kill 2 Lingering Souls, Mentor, and Jace. He rebuilds, but I've found Seismic Loam and have 6 shots this turn. I kill his 2 tokens, his flipped Jace (which was threatening to flashback Celestial Purge), and take his Sorin down to 1 so it can't make a token to crew a lethal Smuggler's Copter. He topdeck's Tasigur, and Copter kills me.
Game 3: Even though I lost 2/0, I felt like I was pretty close to winning both games. He disagrees, and humors me to a 3rd game for funsies. I go Bob, Seismic, cast Life from the Loam, and there is no way he can win. Faith in the deck restored !!
Round 3 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: He has only 1 discard spell, and 1 Death's Shadow which eats a Fatal Push. I'm able to assemble Seismic Loam, and kill him. Obvious note: you really want to 1-shot Death's Shadow players. Stubborn Denial can catch a Loam, and you really don't want to pump their Shadow until it's time to win the game.
Game 2: I open with Black Cleave Cliffs, Graven Cairns, Sesmic, Faithless, Terminate and 2x Abrupt Decay. I keep despite not having green, as I think this hand has a reasonable chance at surviving until I get green. He discards my Faithless Looting to attempt to stall me off green. I draw another Seismic, pass, he Thought Scours and Serum Visions. I draw Bob and slam it on turn 2. Of course it dies, but when he goes to discard me again, he sees 2 Seismics, so he takes the Terminate. I draw a land, slam Seismic Assault. From here, we both stall pretty hard. I'm holding my second Seismic, 2 Decays, and every land I draw, waiting to find Loam to 1-shot him. Eventually he Kolaghan's me, and I discard the Seismic. I keep drawing lands and inconsequential spells, and he durdles around with Snapcasters which I shoot before they can attack. After several turns he plays a Shadow, I Decay it, and I finally rip Loam. I know he has at least 1 Stubborn Denial in hand, but I have 4 mana which could pay for 2 Denials, and I shoot him for 12 winning the match.
So I go 2/1, pretty happy with the result. I felt like I could have easily beat the Esper player had it worked out a little differently, but on the other hand I feel like I got pretty lucky against Grixis Shadow. The mainboard felt very good. Shadow of the Grave didn't do a lot (I never got to use it to "counter" a discard spell), but the one time I did use, it won the game on the spot. The cycling lands felt very good, and I want at least 1 more in the deck. This deck often just needs to find Loam or Seismic as soon as possible, and the cycling lands add a little bit of digging while also being a good way to save a Loam from the yard. If they try to Spellbomb/Surgical/Scooze with only 1 mana, you can Dredge at instant speed with is pretty sweet.
That's all for now!
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
Also, I don't see how KotR is that much different from Crusher in your latest post. I'd say KotR is a better top deck late game because its buffing ability is always active, instead of the hoops you have to go through for Crusher. Though Crusher can potentially get much bigger than KotR. But in general, they are both going to be big beaters with no real evasion. Which seemed to be the point you were making. I would concede that Knight is a better card in a vacuum, mainly because of the tutoring ability working to smooth out your mana and finding utility lands. But it comes at a pretty heavy cost, as I mentioned above. For me personally, unless KotR and your sideboard cards drastically increases your percentages against key match ups for your meta, I would consider trimming down to a more streamlined core for your deck in your primary colors and focus on making that line of play stronger.
All that being said, I do know that MtG is a game and everyone's primary goal is to have a good time while playing. So if you like playing KotR and making a 4 color mana base work, then more power to you. I don't want to come across as tearing apart something you enjoy. I'd just like you to have the most successful deck you can play and if there is reasoning you have for why the White splash is the best option, I'd be interested in hearing about it and having a discussion on that topic.
@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.
I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.
@Krond2 - Thanks for sharing your gameplay with us! Doming someone for 24 must have felt really great. I'm glad Shadow of the Grave worked out for you like that. Has it come up in other areas and been useful for you other than combo'ing out? Tough break on the Esper match up, sounds like he was playing a pretty spicy list. I'll keep in mind making sure to try and 1-shot the Death's Shadow players. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to pump their DSs more than you have to. Especially since I don't have access to Fatal Push or Aburpt Decay in my RUG list.
Theoretically it can be "Thoughtseize Insurance" though. They target you with discard, and if you have something important, Shadow can get it back. It can also be handy on a late game turn where you Faithless and/or cycle some lands, then Shadow them back.
It's possible the card is just too cute, but I'm going to play it for a few more rounds before I make a judgment on it.
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
I started playing RUG from when modern became a thing because there was so much combo and having counterspells against Storm, Twin, Living End, and other such combo decks. It feels more secure than discard and hoping to hit their combo pieces. Plus, you get to play Counterspell 2.0 with its downside being an upside, Serum Visions is a very solid way to smooth draws early on and is a 1cmc Dredge enabler, and Snapcaster Mage + Lightning Bolt is a proven combination.
Delver seems contradictory to the gameplan of the deck. Delver is more of a tempo card rather than an attrition card. I'd be interested in seeing the list that you saw because it'd have to be built fairly different to accommodate a more aggressive play style. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted big butt most of the time. I don't know what would be a reasonable substitute for it. That's the reason it's such an expensive card unfortunately. Baral, Chief of Compliance, Augur of Bolas, Moldgraf Scavenger, Omenspeaker, Scavenging Ooze, Thing in the Ice, and Young Pyromancer are all potentially ok replacements with YP being the most likely best option. The most recent Modern Master's version of Goyf are only ~$80, which seems reasonable for such a staple card and they'll only go up in price in the future. If you're considering playing Modern for years to come, it may not be a bad idea to try and scrounge trades for them.
Round 1 vs Merfolk.
I was concerned about Spreading Seas, which he did have 4 of, but this match seems very favorable. If we draw Seismic Assault, our deck is playing about 40 removal spells. Cycling lands came in very handy post board to instant speed Dredge Loam in response to Relic pop. After casting Seismic, it felt like I couldn't lose. Win 2/0.
Round 2 vs Esper Death's Shadow.
I keep 5 land, Seismic, Abrupt Decay, thinking he would be on infect because he plays that a lot. My cards get discarded, but Cycling Lands + Faithless + Shadow of the Grave let me dig deep. A couple removal spells along the way let me survive to find Seismic and I 14 him. Game 2 I make a huge mistake that nearly costs me the game. After trading discard spells, I begin my turn 3 with Seismic Loam in hand, Blood Crypt and Stomping Ground in play, and Blood Crypt and Verdant Catacombs in hand. I play Verdant, fetch... Can't find an untapped red source. Of course he rips Thoughtseize and discards my Seismic, and I reveal my huge blunder. I got greedy, trying to put more lands in the yard, when I should have just played Seismic. Anywho, the game goes long with my Bob drawing me removal for his guys, and eventually Worm Harvest bails me out of my punt. Win 2/0 despite my egregious error. I have since burned the exact 26 lands I run into my memory.
I think I'll be going down to 2 Shadow of the Grave, and I might move Raven's Crime to the board. Shadow is very strong in the right place, but it's often not very good. Raven's Crime is extremely good in long control games, but also often dead. This will leave more room for 2 more Faithless Looting and maybe a maindeck Pulse or Dread Bore.
Having lots of fun with this deck, especially when I burst down Death's Shadow players. More updates to come on Wednesday.
Of note, I haven't played against any haymaker sideboard cards. Relic is bad, but not game over. I'm more concerned about beating RIP and Leyline of Sanctity. I'm playing 2 Nature's Claim in the board, and 1-2 Pulses. I hope it's enough.
Legacy: GWB Maverick / UBR Delver / C Eldrazi
Fair point. My concession was to the fact that I'm a Jund + small white splash so an extra colored land might be more helpful than a GQ. I'll try out both and see if the extra colored land helps at all. Other than GQ, Tectonic Edge, and Raging Ravine, what other utility lands would be useful in this deck? I've thought about adding in something like Slayers' Stronghold as a tutor target for KotR but it seems a little slow/clunky.
I played some on MTGO last night testing out BoP and while I don't think "win-more" is quite the right category, I'm definitely coming to the conclusion that I'd probably want a more "action" card than BoP. I actually really like it turn 1 as it really helps smooth out the curve/color fixing. Other than that, I never ever want to see it after turn 1 and I have all my colors. I'm trying to figure out what to replace them with now.
I think, per Mazeron, a 1-of Huntmaster MD is super useful. Lifegain against some decks is super useful, the extra blocker, and the ability to kill a small creature and your opp are actually quite good in most circumstances I've been able to play them.
@Krond2 Thanks for your reports! I've cut down to 2 Shadows of the Grave too and thinking about cutting them both. They're amazing when drawn after you have your engine online, as you can easily combo most decks down in 1 turn with a loam + grave, but I feel like I end up discarding them to Faithless Looting more often than not.
UBR Grixis Shadow
URG Amulet Titan