Interesting take zgeordo. I'll definitely be thinking about how to best utilize Grave-Troll now, and a creature-dense Unburial Rites deck could be fantastic with it. The main reason to go in a different direction, as you mentioned, is Monastery Mentor. Which I happen to think has a good chance of being completely broken and ban-worthy. I could be wrong but I think people are still undervalueing it based on my testing.
i like naya since you can play some nice sideboard enchantments with commune. like rule of law and anti burn hate. stony silence for affinity and tron. smallpox is sweet though in a jund version. decisions
With the bans/unbans as they are, the sideboard may change a little; but it's mostly been a similar 75 for a while and has served me well over the years. I am going to keep the jund colors for the deck because I do believe that it is positioned well right now.
I am thinking about a small white splash for the Monastery Mentor, which I would cut my Bob's down a little (which I am thinking about doing anyways).
But if the meta is going to shift back to Twin and Affinity being the most popular, I like my chances. I have not lost to Twin yet and only have one loss against Affinity.
I like the idea of a Naya build, but I am too much in love with Abrupt Decay against Twin.
I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of blue. the Gifts list I've been running is incredibly consistent, and only ran 1 Cruise which can be easily changed up.
The xxxxxxxx xxxxxx slot obviously represents where Cruise used to be. There are few options i've been thinking about for replacement. I'm honestly a bit surprised at the Dig Through Time ban, which originally was my idea when i thought about Cruise getting banned, but without that as an option there's still some other things available. Part of me wants to just go up to 4 Gifts. Another part of me wants to slip in a planeswalker like Kiora or Chandra,or Jace Beleren but that might be too cute. Another part of me wants to make room for some Scavenging Oozes, or just something like Batterskull. I need to figure exactly what I'm gonna do there, but the list in general has been feeling amazing. I've just been jamming this deck like crazy lately because it's so fun, and consistently gives me a lot of play. I rarely feel like i'm getting screwed when i play this, and it feels like i have a solid chance against everything.
I can see the potential of Monastery Mentor in an Assault Loam shell for sure, but i have been having a lot of success with my Rug Gifts build, and am definitely going to stick with that.
With Cruise/DTT and Pod out of the picture, it really is time for Attrition-based strategies to shine!
Assault Loam will definitely make a comeback. If anything, it'll be playable again along with Jund and other Hand hate or similar strategies, without Cruise being in the Meta.
I've always liked the Jund Smallpox, Abrupt Decay, Raven's Crime, Bloodghast variant, but Naya is looking interesting too...
I really like zgeordo's Unburial Rites Creature heavy take.
I'm not too sure on Commune, but being able to filter and find Sideboard Cards, or Creatures/Assault, seems like it may be useful. And if you're running Commune, is 4x Loam really necessary?
Serious? or Sarcastic? I always thought Kiora, the Crashing Wave was cool, but maybe too cute. All her abilities are relevant here though, and she ultimates in just 3 turns, if she stays alive that long..
I have another question though. Do you guys think there will be a resurgence of Twin now? Without Pod, I'm not sure if Damping Matrix, and Torpor Orb should still keep their place in the board. Damping Matrix is actually pretty versatile though, Just not sure yet if that space could be used better now.
I'm considering dropping Loam to 3, and bumping Commune to 3, is the 4th Loam really necessary if we've got Commune?
A lot of my Sideboard has redundancy, either in the form of Flashback or Commune being able to find them. Not entirely sure on Engineered Explosives, but it's kind of a pet Sideboard Card of mine..
Leyline is tempting, but not sure what, aside from Kor Firewalker, I'd cut for it... And it's also good vs Thoughtseize/Inquisition, not that we are afraid of Discard.. Although Firewalker is harder for Burn to get past it, since they almost always run Wear//Tear for Leyline.
Also not sure on if 2x Tec Edge 1x Ghost is the right option, or 2x Ghost 1x Tec Edge.. :S
PS. How can I get the Decklist to put the Lands in the middle?
@ hazanko
I've found that mb Abrupt Decay and sb Rakdos Charm do extremely well against Twin decks.
Right. Well my question wasn't "what's good against Twin". I was asking if I should keep Damping Matrix and Torpor Orb in the sideboard, which were mostly for Pod, but also hits Twin. Without Pod being a thing anymore I'm not sure if I need that much hate for just Twin.
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@Sheriff, I've been runnning 4 of Commune and Loam and while I keep wanting a slot or two for other things, the deck has been operating pretty smoothly with 4-of both so don't fix what ain't broken is where I'm at. Running into multiples has been fine because we're often fighting through grave hate post board and we often get 1 or 2 Loams exiled by this or that. Being able to find a replacement in a timely manner has been critical many times for me.
Wouldn't Birds be better than Hierarch to make red for Assault? Also, how has Horizon Canopy been for you? Been thinking about getting one but not sure how worth it it would be.
Question for those working on Naya: is there an "Apostle's Blessing" type of protection spell that would protect both Mentor and Assault for one mana? Mentor is so good I would like some type of effect like that but don't like to run enough creatures to make Mutagenic Growth good. Boros Charm would do it but two mana just seems like a lot when it's not very versatile for us. Mentor is nuts but our deck full of sorceries is not at all using it to it's full potential. I'd like more instants to make it better but haven't found anything that clicks yet. If only Flame Jab was instant!
@Hazanko, I was wondering about my 2 Torpor Orb slots as well ... so far I think my best idea is switch them for Vines of Vastwood or Spellskites because they can be used against Twin but also to protect Monastery Mentor. Even if that's a bad idea I don't think Torpor is good enough to warrant slots now.
Spellskite is definitely a card to consider for most match ups that may bring in hate, but it won't always protect assault if the hate is in the form of krosan grip or other enchantment removal as such. To protect mentor and your other tokens and push damage through you have brave the elements as an option.
Been thinking of playing Assault Loam for this week's FNM, even though Boros Midrange might work better I guess it's too predictable.
Anyways, I'm revamping both my RG and Jund versions.
No more TC means no more Delver. No more Pod means no more Hierarchs or Jeskai Ascendancy combos. Therefore, Flame Jab is out.
I'm expecting a couple more RG Aggros, as well as some flavors of Zoo and Tron. Potentially a couple of RUG/Bant midrange brews. And, of course, Twin (1 for sure, maybe 2). At least one UWR Control/Midrange that I know of.
Idea is to speed the deck up, and trade aggressively until I can assemble the Assault. Been thinking of Dosan versus Defense Grid, and probably the latter is simply better - though I can dig Dosan with Commune with the Gods.
Also, there's always Jund. The potential to play both Abrupt Decay and Raven's Crime on a more controllish shell has really gotten into me. When I'm done tweaking the test list, I'll edit this or make a new post.
@Sheriff, I've been runnning 4 of Commune and Loam and while I keep wanting a slot or two for other things, the deck has been operating pretty smoothly with 4-of both so don't fix what ain't broken is where I'm at. Running into multiples has been fine because we're often fighting through grave hate post board and we often get 1 or 2 Loams exiled by this or that. Being able to find a replacement in a timely manner has been critical many times for me.
Wouldn't Birds be better than Hierarch to make red for Assault? Also, how has Horizon Canopy been for you? Been thinking about getting one but not sure how worth it it would be.
I've only ever played a handful of games with Modern Loam Decks, but I've never come across a situation where a Loam was Exiled from the Grave and needed a replacement. Though I have had many games where I thought having 4 Loams was too much, since I only ever needed 1 in the Grave, getting the extras was pointless.. And now, if we're adding Commune into the mix, I'm not so sure.. But yeah, having a backup for when you get Relic'd isn't bad, and relying on Commune makes you a Turn slower, so it's a toss up. I haven't tested much with Commune yet, so not sure where I stand.
As for Birds, yeah, I definitely considered them, or some mix of Birds/Hierarchs, but getting the Red isn't that big of a problem, I thought that potentially getting an Exalted Trigger off a Knight or Mentor might be worth it. Granted I don't have Hierarchs in Paper, so it may just be a moot point, I just wanted to test with Hierarchs.. :S
As for Horizon Canopy, I like it. Since we don't have Tranquil Thicket in Modern, it is the next best thing. An extra White Source, and potential Card Draw/Advantage, I don't see why not.
As for Flame Jab, yeah with less Delver it's not as good, but it can still ping unflipped Delvers, Mana Dorks, and Tokens, granted there are less of them now. And Flame Jab does become obsolete once you've got your Seismic Assault online.. But I think having 1 or 2 wouldn't hurt, just in case.
If only you could cram Raven's Crime and Monastery Mentor into the same Deck.. :S
Because of the mana to activate Tasigur I would probably avoid him personally. But definitely seems like a neat add as delving him around a spell/creature you really want to re-buy seems like a very nice "combo" type of play.
I agree that I have never felt the need for more than 3 assault, although I agree that 3 is the minimum I would run and even then, commune is probably great alongside it. Especially if you want to power out your Tasigur early.
With pyromancer I really feel like mana spent into liliana should just be spent on loam, jab, crime instead to get maximum value. That is my personal preference with pyromancer.
Your sideboard looks solid to me, especially if you have a lot of 8 rack opponents. However, I don't feel as though 8 rack is a deck we really should be worried about, so long as we have answers for their racks/affliction/waste not.
Blackcleave cliffs is an early land. If you need land drops later, loam should help you avoid having to use cleaves for anything that is not an assault or retrace spell.
Since you are looking to have the mana to activate Tasigur I would say wurm harvest is fine, otherwise I would suggest that you run without it because it does cost 5 mana.
Keep us updated, tournament reports are always great to check through.
Tasigur seems perfectly fine if that is what you are going for. He is still a 4/5 body for B which is really hard to argue against. I personally have been considering Necropolis Fiend for my jund shell. Just not sure if it is too much dredging.
Personally as far as mentor goes, I like the Jund shell far more than the naya shells. Access to abrupt decay and crime is better in my mind than having access to mentor. Plus pyroman in more on our curve. I woudn't give up my jund shell for mentor in a naya shell. But although liliana can be nice, I really think crime and pyromancer help to alleviate the stress that liliana would as well by removing your opponent's hand and at least putting a bit of a wall of creatures up for your opponent to have to fight through while you get assault online to wipe their board.
Baloth is probably fine for that reason. It is still somewhat slow if you are relying on fetching and searching for shocklands though. Even without shocking yourself off those every 1 point of damage makes the match up that much more favorable for burn. Then again they do give you back 4 life, plus a large wall for your opponents creatures to try and make it through. I still have yet to test dragon's claw, but I have to pick them up still :/
If you don't have white for Kor Firewalker, then Dragon's Claw is amazing. You basically can't lose against burn if you land Claw with Flame Jab + Loam. Even if you don't have Jab though, Claw by itself will still give you muiltiple extra turns against burn.
mykatdied, can you post your most recent Jund list? I'm sure you've posted it recently, but i can't recall exactly what it's looking like.
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Seismic Assault x 4
Life from the Loam x 4
Liliana of the Veil x 2
Dark Confidant x 4
Young Pyromancer x 4
Raven's Crime x 3
Flame Jab x 1
Abrupt Decay x 4
Faithless Looting x 4
Inquisition of Kozilek x 3
Wooded Foothills x 4
Bloodstained Mire x 2
Verdant Catacombs x 2
Swamp x 1
Forest x 1
Blood Crypt x 2
Stomping Grounds x 1
Black Cleave Cliffs x 3
Copperline Gorge x 2
Graven Cairns x 3
Fire-lit Thicket x 1
Ghost Quarter x 2
Raging Ravine x 2
Horizon Canopy x 1
SB
Nihil Spellbomb x 2
Rakdos Charm x 3
Maelstrom Pulse x 2
Inquisition of Kozilek x 1
Thoughtseize x 2
Ancient Grudge x 1
Anger of the Gods x 3
Engineered Explosives x 1
With the bans/unbans as they are, the sideboard may change a little; but it's mostly been a similar 75 for a while and has served me well over the years. I am going to keep the jund colors for the deck because I do believe that it is positioned well right now.
I am thinking about a small white splash for the Monastery Mentor, which I would cut my Bob's down a little (which I am thinking about doing anyways).
But if the meta is going to shift back to Twin and Affinity being the most popular, I like my chances. I have not lost to Twin yet and only have one loss against Affinity.
I like the idea of a Naya build, but I am too much in love with Abrupt Decay against Twin.
I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of blue. the Gifts list I've been running is incredibly consistent, and only ran 1 Cruise which can be easily changed up.
Here's the list-
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 xxxxxxxx xxxxxx
3 Remand
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
2 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
1 Flame Jab
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
1 Pyroclasm
3 Seismic Assault
2 Life From The Loam
1 Noxious Revival
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Pithing Needle
2 Combust
1 Torpor Orb
1 Damping Matrix
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Deglamer
1 Unravel the Æther
1 Keranos, God of Storms
The xxxxxxxx xxxxxx slot obviously represents where Cruise used to be. There are few options i've been thinking about for replacement. I'm honestly a bit surprised at the Dig Through Time ban, which originally was my idea when i thought about Cruise getting banned, but without that as an option there's still some other things available. Part of me wants to just go up to 4 Gifts. Another part of me wants to slip in a planeswalker like Kiora or Chandra,or Jace Beleren but that might be too cute. Another part of me wants to make room for some Scavenging Oozes, or just something like Batterskull. I need to figure exactly what I'm gonna do there, but the list in general has been feeling amazing. I've just been jamming this deck like crazy lately because it's so fun, and consistently gives me a lot of play. I rarely feel like i'm getting screwed when i play this, and it feels like i have a solid chance against everything.
I can see the potential of Monastery Mentor in an Assault Loam shell for sure, but i have been having a lot of success with my Rug Gifts build, and am definitely going to stick with that.
Assault Loam will definitely make a comeback. If anything, it'll be playable again along with Jund and other Hand hate or similar strategies, without Cruise being in the Meta.
I've always liked the Jund Smallpox, Abrupt Decay, Raven's Crime, Bloodghast variant, but Naya is looking interesting too...
I really like zgeordo's Unburial Rites Creature heavy take.
I'm not too sure on Commune, but being able to filter and find Sideboard Cards, or Creatures/Assault, seems like it may be useful. And if you're running Commune, is 4x Loam really necessary?
Serious? or Sarcastic? I always thought Kiora, the Crashing Wave was cool, but maybe too cute. All her abilities are relevant here though, and she ultimates in just 3 turns, if she stays alive that long..
I have another question though. Do you guys think there will be a resurgence of Twin now? Without Pod, I'm not sure if Damping Matrix, and Torpor Orb should still keep their place in the board. Damping Matrix is actually pretty versatile though, Just not sure yet if that space could be used better now.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Enchantments: 4
4 Seismic Assault
Sorceries: 13
3 Life From the Loam
3 Commune With the Gods
3 Faithless Looting
2 Flame Jab
2 Pyroclasm
Instants: 6
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
Lands: 25
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Rugged Prairie
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Forest
2 Stony Silence
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Combust
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Molten Rain
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Blood Moon
1 Choke
1 Spellskite
1 Engineered Explosives
I'm considering dropping Loam to 3, and bumping Commune to 3, is the 4th Loam really necessary if we've got Commune?
A lot of my Sideboard has redundancy, either in the form of Flashback or Commune being able to find them. Not entirely sure on Engineered Explosives, but it's kind of a pet Sideboard Card of mine..
Leyline is tempting, but not sure what, aside from Kor Firewalker, I'd cut for it... And it's also good vs Thoughtseize/Inquisition, not that we are afraid of Discard.. Although Firewalker is harder for Burn to get past it, since they almost always run Wear//Tear for Leyline.
Also not sure on if 2x Tec Edge 1x Ghost is the right option, or 2x Ghost 1x Tec Edge.. :S
PS. How can I get the Decklist to put the Lands in the middle?
I've found that mb Abrupt Decay and sb Rakdos Charm do extremely well against Twin decks.
Right. Well my question wasn't "what's good against Twin". I was asking if I should keep Damping Matrix and Torpor Orb in the sideboard, which were mostly for Pod, but also hits Twin. Without Pod being a thing anymore I'm not sure if I need that much hate for just Twin.
Wouldn't Birds be better than Hierarch to make red for Assault? Also, how has Horizon Canopy been for you? Been thinking about getting one but not sure how worth it it would be.
Question for those working on Naya: is there an "Apostle's Blessing" type of protection spell that would protect both Mentor and Assault for one mana? Mentor is so good I would like some type of effect like that but don't like to run enough creatures to make Mutagenic Growth good. Boros Charm would do it but two mana just seems like a lot when it's not very versatile for us. Mentor is nuts but our deck full of sorceries is not at all using it to it's full potential. I'd like more instants to make it better but haven't found anything that clicks yet. If only Flame Jab was instant!
@Hazanko, I was wondering about my 2 Torpor Orb slots as well ... so far I think my best idea is switch them for Vines of Vastwood or Spellskites because they can be used against Twin but also to protect Monastery Mentor. Even if that's a bad idea I don't think Torpor is good enough to warrant slots now.
Been thinking of playing Assault Loam for this week's FNM, even though Boros Midrange might work better I guess it's too predictable.
Anyways, I'm revamping both my RG and Jund versions.
No more TC means no more Delver. No more Pod means no more Hierarchs or Jeskai Ascendancy combos. Therefore, Flame Jab is out.
I'm expecting a couple more RG Aggros, as well as some flavors of Zoo and Tron. Potentially a couple of RUG/Bant midrange brews. And, of course, Twin (1 for sure, maybe 2). At least one UWR Control/Midrange that I know of.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Stomping Ground
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Mountain
2 Forest
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Countryside Crusher
1 Eternal Witness
//Spells (15)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Seismic Assault
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Dosan, the Falling Leaf
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Blood Moon
Idea is to speed the deck up, and trade aggressively until I can assemble the Assault. Been thinking of Dosan versus Defense Grid, and probably the latter is simply better - though I can dig Dosan with Commune with the Gods.
Also, there's always Jund. The potential to play both Abrupt Decay and Raven's Crime on a more controllish shell has really gotten into me. When I'm done tweaking the test list, I'll edit this or make a new post.
I've only ever played a handful of games with Modern Loam Decks, but I've never come across a situation where a Loam was Exiled from the Grave and needed a replacement. Though I have had many games where I thought having 4 Loams was too much, since I only ever needed 1 in the Grave, getting the extras was pointless.. And now, if we're adding Commune into the mix, I'm not so sure.. But yeah, having a backup for when you get Relic'd isn't bad, and relying on Commune makes you a Turn slower, so it's a toss up. I haven't tested much with Commune yet, so not sure where I stand.
As for Birds, yeah, I definitely considered them, or some mix of Birds/Hierarchs, but getting the Red isn't that big of a problem, I thought that potentially getting an Exalted Trigger off a Knight or Mentor might be worth it. Granted I don't have Hierarchs in Paper, so it may just be a moot point, I just wanted to test with Hierarchs.. :S
As for Horizon Canopy, I like it. Since we don't have Tranquil Thicket in Modern, it is the next best thing. An extra White Source, and potential Card Draw/Advantage, I don't see why not.
As for Flame Jab, yeah with less Delver it's not as good, but it can still ping unflipped Delvers, Mana Dorks, and Tokens, granted there are less of them now. And Flame Jab does become obsolete once you've got your Seismic Assault online.. But I think having 1 or 2 wouldn't hurt, just in case.
If only you could cram Raven's Crime and Monastery Mentor into the same Deck.. :S
I agree that I have never felt the need for more than 3 assault, although I agree that 3 is the minimum I would run and even then, commune is probably great alongside it. Especially if you want to power out your Tasigur early.
With pyromancer I really feel like mana spent into liliana should just be spent on loam, jab, crime instead to get maximum value. That is my personal preference with pyromancer.
Your sideboard looks solid to me, especially if you have a lot of 8 rack opponents. However, I don't feel as though 8 rack is a deck we really should be worried about, so long as we have answers for their racks/affliction/waste not.
Blackcleave cliffs is an early land. If you need land drops later, loam should help you avoid having to use cleaves for anything that is not an assault or retrace spell.
Since you are looking to have the mana to activate Tasigur I would say wurm harvest is fine, otherwise I would suggest that you run without it because it does cost 5 mana.
Keep us updated, tournament reports are always great to check through.
That's exactly what I like the most about this archetype.
Personally as far as mentor goes, I like the Jund shell far more than the naya shells. Access to abrupt decay and crime is better in my mind than having access to mentor. Plus pyroman in more on our curve. I woudn't give up my jund shell for mentor in a naya shell. But although liliana can be nice, I really think crime and pyromancer help to alleviate the stress that liliana would as well by removing your opponent's hand and at least putting a bit of a wall of creatures up for your opponent to have to fight through while you get assault online to wipe their board.
Baloth is probably fine for that reason. It is still somewhat slow if you are relying on fetching and searching for shocklands though. Even without shocking yourself off those every 1 point of damage makes the match up that much more favorable for burn. Then again they do give you back 4 life, plus a large wall for your opponents creatures to try and make it through. I still have yet to test dragon's claw, but I have to pick them up still :/
mykatdied, can you post your most recent Jund list? I'm sure you've posted it recently, but i can't recall exactly what it's looking like.